Liberty and justice...for all?

respectlife's picture

Our beautiful Pledge of Allegiance ends with the words “with liberty and justice for all,” however; I question whether or not this is true in our times. So often, we as citizens are faced with the horrors of our day. For example, Terri Schiavo was denied the basic human right of water. This precious American citizen did not receive liberty nor did she receive justice. Instead, she was cruelly starved to death. Not even an animal would be forced to starve to death if it was possible to provide the creature with food and water. Instead, we allowed the inhumane death of this woman to occur. Justice? I think not. But Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo is not the only victim of cruelty. Many elderly and handicapped are being murdered in similar ways. They are being forced to die because it is the “merciful” thing to do. This is not liberty. This is not justice. This is murder. Another great horror in America is the murder of the pre-born. These babies are denied the basic human rights of LIVING. Liberty? No, again. We, as American citizens who proudly recite our Pledge of Allegiance with our right hands lovingly folded upon our breasts, need to recognize the hypocrisy occurring in America every day. We need to stand up for the American citizens who are being treated inhumanly and who are being denied basic rights that every person should possess. We need to ensure liberty and justice, not only for some, but for ALL. RESPECT life.

ediblewoman's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I just pray that my partner will have the right to decide when to end it for me should I end up in a position similar to Schaivo's. She wouldn't even be able to visit me in the hospital as it stands now.

"Never go with a hippy to a second location."
~Jack Donaghy
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman

mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

At some point, you have to realize that life isn't life anymore. A person who is only being kept alive because of the synapses firing in his or her brain stem is not really a person anymore, it's an empty shell of a human. If you believe in souls, who's to say that the soul is even there anymore? Without modern medicine, the person would have died long before that anyway, and there would have been nothing anyone could have done about it.

~C
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respectlife's picture

I agree in part. I believe that it is ok to deny someone something like a breathing machine or other such medical technology that would keep someone alive. However, I in no circumstances, believe that someone should be denied food and water. Those are basic necessities that we are obligated to give to another human being.
RESPECT LIFE
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mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

Soo... it's ok to removed a ventilator if that's the only thing keeping the person alive, but if the fact that a feeding tube is stuck down their throat, and they are otherwise dead, it's not ok to remove that life support?

~C
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respectlife's picture

In a sense, yes. Would you prefer to allow a woman to die when she was obviously still capable of interacting with others and when there were people who still wanted her alive?
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife

mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

There is a world of difference between what you are talking about, and what I am talking about. Terry Schaivo, from what I've seen, was completely brain-dead. The person she was was no longer there... she was only alive because her lower brain (brainstem) was still functioning, allowing her to carry out the physiological processes needed for survival (i.e. breathing, digesting). With no higher brain function, she was not able to communicate with those around her, despite what her parents would claim. But even if this wasn't the case, I'm not talking specifically about Terry Shaivo, I'm talking about brain-dead individuals in general.

A person who is brain-dead, a person whose heart still beats, cannot speak, cannot interact with the world around them. They cannot think, they cannot do anything but is required for the body to survive. This person is ONLY being kept alive because he or she is being fed; so long as nutrients are still entering the bloodstream, basic survival is possible. But the person will never recover, and will only slowly deteriorate over time. They will get bed sores from being in one position all the time (because they are unable to move of their own free will; a nurse or CNA has to move them), the muscles being to atrophy from lack of use. If a breathing tube is being used, pneumonia will likely result because bacteria will be able to get down the wind-pipe. The previously mentioned bedsores could easily become infected, especially if there is not proper care taken to remove soiled linens and waste from around the body. This could lead to amputation if it progresses too far, or perhaps an autoimmune disease because antibiotics weren't administered soon enough. In essence, the body will just waste away, long long after the mind is already gone. Why put the family, or the body itself, through that kind of suffering if there is no hope for the person to come back?

~C
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respectlife's picture

Well, from various videos, it appears to me as if Terri had conciseness when the whole no food and water thing started.

Secondly, it's not that there's no hope, because people have come back after being brain dead before. But these people normally die within a few hours of being removed from ventilators, so I don't think the whole starving thing applies to them.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife

mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

I realize you may not know the science of this... there is a huge difference between someone being in a coma (which you can come back from) and someone being brain dead. Huge difference. Someone who is brain dead can be legally declared dead. Someone who is in a coma can not.

And from what I've seen, Ms. Shaivo had a bunch of reflexes that made her parents think she was responding to them, when she was, in fact, not.

~C
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blackout's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I would suggest that if Mrs. Schiavo's wishes had been rspected in the beginning, then a great many people (including Mrs. Schiavo) would have been spared the torture of a unnecesarrily long, lingering and pointlessly difficult death. Of course, Mrs. Shiavo actually suffered less than most of the people involved in her case, as her ability to suffer actually ended long before the final decision of the Courts was handed down.

TTFN,
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.

Your blog bought up some good points. the discussion here could have been open to the rights of illegal immgrants "justice and liberty for all.", capital punishment, and Guatamamo( didnt spell that right) Bay.

but i digress.....

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