Submitted by mvenus929 on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 3:04pm.
One of my classmates said that she was only going to breastfeed the baby she's pregnant with now for a little while.. maybe a few weeks. I didn't understand it either.
~C
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Submitted by dragonwolf on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 5:36pm.
I think she'll change her mind as soon as she gets engorged and tries to bottle feed the baby in the middle of the night instead of doing them both a favor.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 5:54pm.
That would depend on what she did with the other two. Other than that, though, I don't understand either, then.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by jackbenimble on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 12:56pm.
But it seems like I read that the very most important part of the immunity benefit from breast milk was passed in the first few days or the first couple of weeks. If I remember right the milk changes significantly not long after the baby is born.
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by dragonwolf on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 5:30pm.
Would you rather eat in the bathroom?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by mvenus929 on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 8:00am.
You know, it doesn't always work out that way. The breasts tend to get filled with milk when the baby is also hungry. So pumping beforehand will produce less milk than breastfeeding at the correct time, and a full breast hurts like hell... it's not something you really want to put off until you get home.
~C
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Submitted by mvenus929 on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 8:10am.
There isn't a double standard... women can use a public restroom just as well as men can when they have a full bladder. The comparison is mentioned above... men are allowed to walk around shirtless (maybe not in stores and restaurants, but none-the-less...), and women are allowed to as well in some areas (New York comes to mind). So, why the opposition of women breastfeeding in public when she MIGHT show a nipple in doing so (whereas a man urinating is much more likely to show more)?
~C
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Submitted by dragonwolf on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 10:16am.
Your argument below was one of "social decency," yet when done right, you can't even really tell the mother is breastfeeding. You're not being quite as consistent as you think.
A man whipping it out in plain view to relieve himself is far from the same as a woman breastfeeding, especially as mentioned before when she's wearing appropriate attire that allows her to do so without showing any skin.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by lancekates on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 10:31am.
Your argument below was one of "social decency," yet when done right, you can't even really tell the mother is breastfeeding.
Yes. You can. You may not be able to tell as easily, but yes. . . you can.
And your comparison to a man urinating used very specific words so as to try and seperate the two as much as possible. That'd be like saying that when a woman breastfeeds, she 'whips out' her breast. . .. it produces, on purpose, a picture that is nowhere near what I suggested, in an effort to contrast it from your view. It is an old trick.
A man can, just as easily, be subtle when urinating. Hid behind a trash can or bush, etc.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 1:44pm.
Yes. You can. You may not be able to tell as easily, but yes. . . you can.
Yeah, if you stare at them long enough (or already know what to look for).
A man can, just as easily, be subtle when urinating. Hid behind a trash can or bush, etc.
Might I also add that opposed to relieving oneself, breastfeeding also does not leave anything behind.
Also, if no skin is showing, what's so indecent about breastfeeding, anyway?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 2:23pm.
You're moving the goalposts to now include 'cleanup' . . . though one could easily, by comparison, include a drain. No mess.
You're still leaving something behind. Besides, at that point, you might as well use a restroom, you've basically created the same effect.
You're moving the goalposts to now include 'cleanup'
I never set the goalposts to begin with, I happened to bring up another point.
You're going a long way to make me seem unreasonable with my desire to not see women breastfeeding in public.
How so? You were the one that brought up the idea that it's "public indecency."
Also, do you just read the first one that comes in your emails, because you seem to miss the points I add when I edit a comment to add a point.
You still haven't said how breastfeeding is "public indecency" in the first place.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by lancekates on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 2:33pm.
Also, do you just read the first one that comes in your emails, because you seem to miss the points I add when I edit a comment to add a point.
I don't know anything about emails, but I generally only look at new comments, especially in longer ones such as this.
You still haven't said how breastfeeding is "public indecency" in the first place.
Nor have you said how public urination is "public indecency"
It is as it is defined by society. We each have our own opnions and that is mine. I would rather not have a mother breastfeeding in public.
There is a whole LIST of such things..... like talking loudly on a cell phone while on a bus. Or, for that matter, talking on a cell phone on a bus, then complaining about how no one has privacy anymore. Driving while Texting also drives me nuts.
Talking during movies.
Nakedness in public.
Foul language in public.
There are also things that are socially unacceptable that people don't even think about.
Using the urinal next to another guy when there are other open ones farther away.
Facing the back while riding in an elevator.
Walking on the right while in the mall.
Saying "Bless you!" when someone sneezes, even if you or they are athiestic.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 3:36pm.
I don't know anything about emails,
Email notification of new comments in posts you've commented on.
Nor have you said how public urination is "public indecency"
You never asked, and I wasn't the one that used it to begin with. That aside, from what I can tell, it's really only "indecent" because it does expose certain body parts that are considered by the majority to be indecent (ie - genitalia). I frankly don't really care as long as one's not doing so on someone, their possessions, or food/water supplies (of course, I also grew up in a rural area and went camping often, so relieve oneself outside was not an uncommon occurrence).
It is as it is defined by society. We each have our own opnions and that is mine.
You're avoiding the question. Why do you consider it public indecency? The emphasis is on you because it seems (at least here on ProU) that you are in minority.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by lancekates on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 3:46pm.
Email notification of new comments in posts you've commented on.
No, I don't get those, and I'd rather not.
I have enough to do in a day without going to see if someone edited a post I've already commented on.
You're avoiding the question. Why do you consider it public indecency? The emphasis is on you because it seems (at least here on ProU) that you are in minority.
"What's Popular is not always right and what is Right is not always popular." Being in the majority is not my goal in life. As for why I consider it public indecency? because of what is being done. The act of breastfeeding is not something that I personally feel is fit for public display.
It doesn't mean that it is a horrible thing that is disgusting. Sex is a wonderful thing and I don't feel that should be done in public, even if you cover everything up so no one can see.
Who is the person who deems some clothing "appropriate attire" for breastfeeding? What is wrong with people around you knowing you are breastfeeding? All the breastfeeding mommas I've ever seen who weren't draped with a blanket still weren't showing any more skin then the average person at the beach in a bikini; so why does it freak people out when the mom has a baby attached to her nipple rather then a little piece of cloth? Are we offended by the skin; or by the baby attached to what we, in America, have deemed sexual organs...? I've been questioning all of this myself lately...I'm so pro breastfeeding, and yet, having grow up in a strict, Charismatic Christian community, which was really more like a cult then anything, I still feel a little stunned when I see a momma breastfeeding. But when I search my heart, I realize the only reason I'm feeling shocked is because I myself have some sexual issues...so look closely at what you are saying when you say "breastfeeding makes me uncomfortable" or "do it in private..."
Submitted by lancekates on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:05am.
Who is the person who deems some clothing "appropriate attire" for breastfeeding?
No ONE person does, and you know it. That is why it is called a 'society' issue.
so look closely at what you are saying when you say "breastfeeding makes me uncomfortable" or "do it in private..."
I do not have sexual issues. I just feel that it is not something to be done in public in our society. I don't ask people who favor it to give a detailed response as to why it should be done in public.... because I don't care. We're all allowed to have opinions on what is and is not acceptable.
Just because you deem something as acceptable does not make me evil or having 'issues' because I do not. Just because I deem something as unacceptable does not make you evil or having 'issues' because you do not.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:50am.
I do not have sexual issues.
Um....they never said you did. They just said that they did because of the way they grew up.
I've been wanting to know why you consider it indecent more because I don't understand why you feel that way. It doesn't make sense to me. In the end, I don't really care that you feel that way, I just want to understand why.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:53am.
Appropriate attire = anything that doesn't require you to actually take it off to breastfeed. A regular turtleneck, for example, would not be appropriate attire. A low-cut, loose shirt would suffice, or anyoneof thehundredsofbreastfeedingclothes. I was talking about practicality. When it comes down to it, it's up to the mother to decide what's appropriate to wear, just as it's anyone's decision to decide what's appropriate to wear in any other situation.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:58am.
And you're wanting to tell people where they can and cannot feed their infant. The only difference is you, in particular, have not tried to get the government to do so. Do note that we didn't go to the government, but we do benefit from the decision made by others.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 8:25am.
Then go somewhere else, if you don't want to see people breastfeeding in public.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 9:40am.
No I'm not. I'm simply telling you that if you don't like seeing women breastfeed in public, simply go somewhere else.
Or, I'm simply repeating to you what you told me to do in a certain other topic.
And you still never did answer my question about why you consider it "indecent," though looking back at your original comment about it being "indecent," you mentioned "public nudity." So, again, I ask -- how is it indecent when it's possible to have no extra skin showing?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by lancekates on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 9:43am.
indecent for breastfeeding in public? It is the social norm for our society.
That's how our culture is. Can it change? Sure. It seems to be.
Doesn't mean I have to like it.
Though I suspect that you're more of the type to want government involvement than I am, so perhaps you think that my dislike of public breastfeeding is leading to government bans on it.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 10:21am.
You're still not answering my question. I don't care how society feels, I want to know why you believe it to be indecent. You, not society.
perhaps you think that my dislike of public breastfeeding is leading to government bans on it.
Considering you're not alone in feeling that it's indecent, I wouldn't be surprised if such laws get passed one day. Just because you don't agree with it happening doesn't mean others who have the same view about breastfeeding as you won't try to get the government in on it.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by lancekates on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 10:29am.
You're still not answering my question. I don't care how society feels, I want to know why you believe it to be indecent. You, not society.
It is the societial norm. I don't like seeing women breastfeeding in public because they're doing something that is outside of the societial norm.
Some societies have women who go around naked. That doesn't mean that we ought to do that here. Our society isn't that way. It would be breaking the norm for our society. As it turns out, I don't like that.
I'm allowed to not like it.
Just because you don't agree with it happening doesn't mean others who have the same view about breastfeeding as you won't try to get the government in on it.
That is true, there are many liberals and socialists who love to have the government try and force their will on people doing things that they don't like. Prayer in School and Smoking come to mind.
However, as I am not a liberal or a socialist, I am still taken aback as to why you keep making such references when discussing my issue with public breastfeeding.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 10:55am.
Say no to skinny boxes. See response below.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
It is a term that means a breastfed baby either won't take a bottle, or gets confused after taking a bottle a few times and then won't take the breast. Very young children shouldn't be switched from bottle to breast and back again...it would be like asking you to eat some of your meals with your feet, and then some with your hands...
Also, if you breastfeed on demand, as you should do, in order to let the baby dictate how much milk the breasts are producing so the baby is getting enough during growth spurts, well, then you have to breastfeed pretty much everywhere, whenever the baby thinks it is a good idea.
Because breastfeeding is a biological process, and because it involves two people, if done correctly, you can't really plan when or where it will happen...in order for the mom's body to be in sync with the babies' you really have to breastfeed on demand...
Submitted by lancekates on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:12am.
I'd still prefer it not be done in public.
If you don't regularly urinate, you can develop bladder infections. Since you can't predict when you need to urinate, you need to be able to urinate whenever you feel the urge, no matter where you are.
Yet, we confine urination to restrooms and look down upon those who would pee in public.
Frankly, I don't want government involvement, I just don't like public breastfeeding.
I don't know what else to say. You're not going to convince me to like the idea, nor are you going to get me in a "I gotcha!" moment through logic.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:52am.
You gonna pay for breastfeeding rooms, then? Some companies have them, but most do not, unlike restrooms, where all establishments have them, and most of them are public.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 8:21am.
You consider breastfeeding in public to be a problem because you'd rather they didn't.
If the government decided to ban public breastfeeding and/or make public places add nursing rooms and you either a) voted against it, or b) didn't vote at all for one reason or another, what would you do after the law was enacted?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by lancekates on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 8:50am.
I'd oppose such a law. It isn't the government's job to say where one can breastfeed any more than it is the government's job to say where one is allowed to smoke.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 9:35am.
I'd oppose such a law.
The law's enacted. What would you do to oppose it?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 10:24am.
When it's not in my Congressman's jurisdiction, yes, it's blogs (these are state laws, remember). Otherwise, I do the same as you and write to them.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 5:40pm.
To take a look at the blogs I've posted in your absence. :)
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by TomorrowToday on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 8:37pm.
Alright this comparison of breastfeeding vs public urination has finally been too much. There are multiple very good reasons why we don't allow public urination, the very least having anything to do with public decency.
Long ago there used to be frequent public urination. Public health problems ran rampant. It is unsanitary and that is the #1 reason we keep it in designated rooms, not public decency. Breastfeeding is not a health risk for anyone outside of the mother and child. No one else is affected directly.
I'm glad you do not want a gov't ban and that you are willing to deal with it against your distaste, but likening it to public urination is a disconnected logic system is that is just as unjustified and not a parallel argument to breastfeeding.
Even if you feed or pump ahead of time, you still have to do so again every 2 to 3 hours to keep supply, prevent infections and all that good stuff. So, you can plan ahead all you want... it won't negate that you're going to be in public at some point and have to either pump or breastfeed.
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by lancekates on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 11:35am.
I understand that. I've worked with women who would go into the restroom or close the door to their office in order to pump (they'd have a sign that says "Do not disturb"
However, that doesn't change my lack of desire to see public breastfeeding.
I'm not demanding that it be made law or anything, but I can still have my opinion.
I know and I respect that you have an opinion. I just happen to agree.
And we're back at that entire bathroom thing again. That we would rather a woman go into a public restroom to feed her child than for our delicate sensibilities to chance a little flesh is to me, incomprehensible. Most of us don't even like to pee in a public restroom... why the heck would we want to feed a kid there?! I wouldn't make as big a fuss if we actually had nursing rooms (the mall here actually just added one) for breastfeeding mothers... but we don't do that and then we gripe about public breastfeeding. Sorry... I'd rather you be offended than my kid eat where people poop.
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:55am.
I'd rather you be offended than my kid eat where people poop.
Here, here!
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by pkubik08 on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 2:11pm.
Breastfeeding does create a bond between the mom and baby. It's also healthier than formula and is better for the child'd health over all. But I don't like when people do it in public. Or when you're with someone and they decide to feed their kid in front of you. It's not polite.
I know people who breastfeed and they have to work their schedule around the kid's eating habits. "We can't go out at 6:00 'cause we have to feed (fill in a name)." It's a whole other option to formula.
I would personally say that asking a mother to cover up or to go into the restroom is less polite than feeding in public. If you don't cover your head to eat or eat in a restroom... why should an infant?
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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I don't really buy that one either though. I mean, men can walk around without their shirts and no one ever complains about the social decency thing. As soon, however, as a woman opens her shirt to begin breastfeed, an entire controversy pops up. Seems to me that if we're going to bitch, we should at least be fair enough to do so equally. It's either a social decency issue for both sexes or it's a moot point for both.
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by dragonwolf on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 5:34pm.
men can walk around without their shirts
And last I checked, women don't even have to do any amount of unclothing. Especially if they have items from the whole slew of stuff designed for breastfeeding.
And why is it that everyone seems to think that mom has to get naked to breastfeed?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
No idea. My sister has to pump every 2 to 3 hours and she's never once gotten naked to do so and this is her 3rd kiddo. They have all sorts of modesty preserving clothing for breast feeding mother's these days... and people still flip when a woman breast feeds in public even if they never see a bit of skin.
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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No more so than yours. Breastfeeding is natural... I would say that our over sexualization of the female breast to the point where we find it offensive to see an infant feeding off that selfsame organ is what is ridiculous.
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by mvenus929 on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 3:06pm.
For the general record, this particular question has absolutely nothing to do with breastfeeding in public. There's another poll from quite some time ago that discusses that. This one is merely asking would you (or would you encourage, if you're a man) breastfeeding of your child.
~C
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An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by dragonwolf on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 4:21pm.
Yeah, it's pretty much unanimous that breastfeeding is good. The issue lies in whether or not it's "polite" to do so in public.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
I chose other. I would love to breastfeed, but with my medical history and the various medications they put me on, it may turn out to be safer not to breastfeed. We'll decide when we come to that bridge.
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by Poison_Ivy on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 4:07pm.
I would not breastfeed if I were able to have a child (which is another story all together.) Like Fallon, I am on medications that I could not do without and would feel better bottle feeding than exposing an infant to so many toxins.
Submitted by chelsea.correa929 on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 12:53pm.
I tried to breast feed Izzy for About Two months, Unfortunately due to her being in the NICU, and being forced to go back to work my bosses would not let me take a break to pump, all of these circumstances made me unsuccessful at it, the nurses would not let me hold her to try to breast feed, and instead of letting me try to breast feed they would instead warm my breast milk and put it into a bottle, so i wound up drying up
and also, for the people who complain about mothers nursing in public, they make these sling things now that you would not even know if i was nursing while grocery shopping.they are really neat, and allot of moms use them.
I wonder why that is. My sister hasn't been able to breast feed any of hers because they were in NICU, but she pumps for them religiously and gets a freaking ton of milk; 6 to 9 ounces each time. Others though, can try until they're blue in the face and are lucky to produce one or two cc's.
Why wouldn't they let you hold her to attempt to feed?
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Submitted by BurningExample on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 12:17am.
Yay, boobies! Breast feed all the way!!
I think it's ridiculous when people choose not to breastfeed just because they don't want to. I understand some people can't for various reasons, but when people say they aren't breastfeeding their newborn just because "I just don't want to," I get pretty angry.
Not only does breastfeeding create a bond between mommy and baby, it helps create a healthy immune system for the little one and give him necessary nutrients for growth that you just can't get from formula. It helps mommy lose the baby weight and helps both mommy and baby regulate their hormones.
Unless there are health concerns (like some people have mentioned medication) or it's really impossible to breastfeed (you don't produce or your baby's are in NICU, for example), I think it's ridiculous not to :-/
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You are the Voice of the Childwen of the Revowution! [Toulouse, Moulin Rouge]
Submitted by dragonwolf on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 10:28am.
Since this has ended up being more of a debate on whether or not it's okay to breastfeed in public, I'd like to make note of an old blog post regarding a woman getting kicked off a plane because she was discreetly breastfeeding her child and politely refused a blanket offered in order to be "more discreet."
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by lancekates on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 11:04am.
A company is allowed to do as they wish.
Breastfeeding is not a group protected by any "Human Rights" commission.
While that woman (and any woman, for that matter) may have a right to breastfeed (though I'd call it an ability rather than a right, but that's a pet peeve of mine and unrelated to this), she does not have a right to do so anywhere she chooses.
If you're in an airplane, you are not in YOUR private area. That area belongs to the airline and they are allowed to have rules as they see fit (provided they do not discriminate against someone based on protected status such as race)
Breastfeeding is a beautiful way of bonding.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
It improves immunity, it's all natural, and it's cheaper than formula, so why WOULDN'T you breastfeed, barring a medical reason?
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
One of my classmates said that she was only going to breastfeed the baby she's pregnant with now for a little while.. maybe a few weeks. I didn't understand it either.
~C
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Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
I think she'll change her mind as soon as she gets engorged and tries to bottle feed the baby in the middle of the night instead of doing them both a favor.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
She's already had two kids. I think she knows how it goes by now.
~C
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Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
That would depend on what she did with the other two. Other than that, though, I don't understand either, then.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
But it seems like I read that the very most important part of the immunity benefit from breast milk was passed in the first few days or the first couple of weeks. If I remember right the milk changes significantly not long after the baby is born.
It's colostrum.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Yup. I'd rather they didn't do so in public, but sure.
Would you rather eat in the bathroom?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Who said anything about a bathroom? Plan accordingly. Going to be out for a while? Breastfeed before you leave, or wait until you get home.
Or, use a pump and put it in a bottle when you're going to be out in public for a while, then bottle feed breastmilk.
A little planning goes a long way.
You know, it doesn't always work out that way. The breasts tend to get filled with milk when the baby is also hungry. So pumping beforehand will produce less milk than breastfeeding at the correct time, and a full breast hurts like hell... it's not something you really want to put off until you get home.
~C
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But, pumping ahead of time can empty the breast and give the child some milk while in public.
The goal isn't to starve kids or put mothers in pain.
I don't know why there is such opposition to the idea of breastfeeding in private.
We don't let people urinate in public, and a full bladder hurts and urination is a natural function of the body.
There are some social things that are unacceptable for public display and breastfeeding is one of them.
I support breastfeeding as it is good for the mother and the child. Just ask that it not be done in public.
Unless you're also willing to get rid of the double standard and allow men to urinate in public.
There isn't a double standard... women can use a public restroom just as well as men can when they have a full bladder. The comparison is mentioned above... men are allowed to walk around shirtless (maybe not in stores and restaurants, but none-the-less...), and women are allowed to as well in some areas (New York comes to mind). So, why the opposition of women breastfeeding in public when she MIGHT show a nipple in doing so (whereas a man urinating is much more likely to show more)?
~C
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Your case for women breastfeeding in public is that it is natural and that it hurts if they don't.
The same case is made for men wanting to urinate, yet they are restricted to bathrooms to do that.
And, as I already stated, I don't much like men walking around without a shirt either, so I am being rather consistant.
There are many ways to get around breastfeeding in public with a bit of successful planning.
I don't begrudge women who do so, I just would prefer that they not.
Your argument below was one of "social decency," yet when done right, you can't even really tell the mother is breastfeeding. You're not being quite as consistent as you think.
A man whipping it out in plain view to relieve himself is far from the same as a woman breastfeeding, especially as mentioned before when she's wearing appropriate attire that allows her to do so without showing any skin.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Yes. You can. You may not be able to tell as easily, but yes. . . you can.
And your comparison to a man urinating used very specific words so as to try and seperate the two as much as possible. That'd be like saying that when a woman breastfeeds, she 'whips out' her breast. . .. it produces, on purpose, a picture that is nowhere near what I suggested, in an effort to contrast it from your view. It is an old trick.
A man can, just as easily, be subtle when urinating. Hid behind a trash can or bush, etc.
Yes. You can. You may not be able to tell as easily, but yes. . . you can.
Yeah, if you stare at them long enough (or already know what to look for).
A man can, just as easily, be subtle when urinating. Hid behind a trash can or bush, etc.
Might I also add that opposed to relieving oneself, breastfeeding also does not leave anything behind.
Also, if no skin is showing, what's so indecent about breastfeeding, anyway?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
now we're getting off the subject of the visibility of breastfeeding.
You're moving the goalposts to now include 'cleanup' . . . though one could easily, by comparison, include a drain. No mess.
You're going a long way to make me seem unreasonable with my desire to not see women breastfeeding in public.
You're moving the goalposts to now include 'cleanup' . . . though one could easily, by comparison, include a drain. No mess.
You're still leaving something behind. Besides, at that point, you might as well use a restroom, you've basically created the same effect.
You're moving the goalposts to now include 'cleanup'
I never set the goalposts to begin with, I happened to bring up another point.
You're going a long way to make me seem unreasonable with my desire to not see women breastfeeding in public.
How so? You were the one that brought up the idea that it's "public indecency."
Also, do you just read the first one that comes in your emails, because you seem to miss the points I add when I edit a comment to add a point.
You still haven't said how breastfeeding is "public indecency" in the first place.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
I don't know anything about emails, but I generally only look at new comments, especially in longer ones such as this.
Nor have you said how public urination is "public indecency"
It is as it is defined by society. We each have our own opnions and that is mine. I would rather not have a mother breastfeeding in public.
There is a whole LIST of such things..... like talking loudly on a cell phone while on a bus. Or, for that matter, talking on a cell phone on a bus, then complaining about how no one has privacy anymore. Driving while Texting also drives me nuts.
Talking during movies.
Nakedness in public.
Foul language in public.
There are also things that are socially unacceptable that people don't even think about.
Using the urinal next to another guy when there are other open ones farther away.
Facing the back while riding in an elevator.
Walking on the right while in the mall.
Saying "Bless you!" when someone sneezes, even if you or they are athiestic.
etc.
I don't know anything about emails,
Email notification of new comments in posts you've commented on.
Nor have you said how public urination is "public indecency"
You never asked, and I wasn't the one that used it to begin with. That aside, from what I can tell, it's really only "indecent" because it does expose certain body parts that are considered by the majority to be indecent (ie - genitalia). I frankly don't really care as long as one's not doing so on someone, their possessions, or food/water supplies (of course, I also grew up in a rural area and went camping often, so relieve oneself outside was not an uncommon occurrence).
It is as it is defined by society. We each have our own opnions and that is mine.
You're avoiding the question. Why do you consider it public indecency? The emphasis is on you because it seems (at least here on ProU) that you are in minority.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
No, I don't get those, and I'd rather not.
I have enough to do in a day without going to see if someone edited a post I've already commented on.
"What's Popular is not always right and what is Right is not always popular." Being in the majority is not my goal in life. As for why I consider it public indecency? because of what is being done. The act of breastfeeding is not something that I personally feel is fit for public display.
It doesn't mean that it is a horrible thing that is disgusting. Sex is a wonderful thing and I don't feel that should be done in public, even if you cover everything up so no one can see.
Who is the person who deems some clothing "appropriate attire" for breastfeeding? What is wrong with people around you knowing you are breastfeeding? All the breastfeeding mommas I've ever seen who weren't draped with a blanket still weren't showing any more skin then the average person at the beach in a bikini; so why does it freak people out when the mom has a baby attached to her nipple rather then a little piece of cloth? Are we offended by the skin; or by the baby attached to what we, in America, have deemed sexual organs...? I've been questioning all of this myself lately...I'm so pro breastfeeding, and yet, having grow up in a strict, Charismatic Christian community, which was really more like a cult then anything, I still feel a little stunned when I see a momma breastfeeding. But when I search my heart, I realize the only reason I'm feeling shocked is because I myself have some sexual issues...so look closely at what you are saying when you say "breastfeeding makes me uncomfortable" or "do it in private..."
Love ya,
Carrot
No ONE person does, and you know it. That is why it is called a 'society' issue.
I do not have sexual issues. I just feel that it is not something to be done in public in our society. I don't ask people who favor it to give a detailed response as to why it should be done in public.... because I don't care. We're all allowed to have opinions on what is and is not acceptable.
Just because you deem something as acceptable does not make me evil or having 'issues' because I do not. Just because I deem something as unacceptable does not make you evil or having 'issues' because you do not.
I do not have sexual issues.
Um....they never said you did. They just said that they did because of the way they grew up.
I've been wanting to know why you consider it indecent more because I don't understand why you feel that way. It doesn't make sense to me. In the end, I don't really care that you feel that way, I just want to understand why.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Appropriate attire = anything that doesn't require you to actually take it off to breastfeed. A regular turtleneck, for example, would not be appropriate attire. A low-cut, loose shirt would suffice, or any one of the hundreds of breastfeeding clothes. I was talking about practicality. When it comes down to it, it's up to the mother to decide what's appropriate to wear, just as it's anyone's decision to decide what's appropriate to wear in any other situation.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
I have to pick on you a little here, Lance...
You don't say that breastfeeding in public should be banned, you'd just prefer it wasn't around.
Kind of reminds me of our smoking discussion. I'm not saying it's okay for the gov't to regulate smoking, but I'd prefer they did.
Sorry... you left yourself wide open.
And I'm sure I did, here, too. Bring it on!!!
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You are the Voice of the Childwen of the Revowution! [Toulouse, Moulin Rouge]
Big difference.
I'm not saying that someone can't breastfeed. I support the notion.
I'm just allowed to prefer it not be in public.
You, on the other hand, want the government to tell people where they can and can not smoke.
I don't want the government involved in breastfeeding. It isn't their job.
And you're wanting to tell people where they can and cannot feed their infant. The only difference is you, in particular, have not tried to get the government to do so. Do note that we didn't go to the government, but we do benefit from the decision made by others.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
I'm not telling anyone anything. I'm just not a fan of breastfeeding in public.
Why do you equate that to me trying to boss people around?
Then go somewhere else, if you don't want to see people breastfeeding in public.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Now you're trying to force your will on me.
Bad form.
No I'm not. I'm simply telling you that if you don't like seeing women breastfeed in public, simply go somewhere else.
Or, I'm simply repeating to you what you told me to do in a certain other topic.
And you still never did answer my question about why you consider it "indecent," though looking back at your original comment about it being "indecent," you mentioned "public nudity." So, again, I ask -- how is it indecent when it's possible to have no extra skin showing?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
indecent for breastfeeding in public? It is the social norm for our society.
That's how our culture is. Can it change? Sure. It seems to be.
Doesn't mean I have to like it.
Though I suspect that you're more of the type to want government involvement than I am, so perhaps you think that my dislike of public breastfeeding is leading to government bans on it.
Just as you are thankful for that ban on smoking.
You're still not answering my question. I don't care how society feels, I want to know why you believe it to be indecent. You, not society.
perhaps you think that my dislike of public breastfeeding is leading to government bans on it.
Considering you're not alone in feeling that it's indecent, I wouldn't be surprised if such laws get passed one day. Just because you don't agree with it happening doesn't mean others who have the same view about breastfeeding as you won't try to get the government in on it.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
It is the societial norm. I don't like seeing women breastfeeding in public because they're doing something that is outside of the societial norm.
Some societies have women who go around naked. That doesn't mean that we ought to do that here. Our society isn't that way. It would be breaking the norm for our society. As it turns out, I don't like that.
I'm allowed to not like it.
That is true, there are many liberals and socialists who love to have the government try and force their will on people doing things that they don't like. Prayer in School and Smoking come to mind.
However, as I am not a liberal or a socialist, I am still taken aback as to why you keep making such references when discussing my issue with public breastfeeding.
Say no to skinny boxes. See response below.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
It is a term that means a breastfed baby either won't take a bottle, or gets confused after taking a bottle a few times and then won't take the breast. Very young children shouldn't be switched from bottle to breast and back again...it would be like asking you to eat some of your meals with your feet, and then some with your hands...
Also, if you breastfeed on demand, as you should do, in order to let the baby dictate how much milk the breasts are producing so the baby is getting enough during growth spurts, well, then you have to breastfeed pretty much everywhere, whenever the baby thinks it is a good idea.
Because breastfeeding is a biological process, and because it involves two people, if done correctly, you can't really plan when or where it will happen...in order for the mom's body to be in sync with the babies' you really have to breastfeed on demand...
Love ya,
Carrot
I'd still prefer it not be done in public.
If you don't regularly urinate, you can develop bladder infections. Since you can't predict when you need to urinate, you need to be able to urinate whenever you feel the urge, no matter where you are.
Yet, we confine urination to restrooms and look down upon those who would pee in public.
Frankly, I don't want government involvement, I just don't like public breastfeeding.
I don't know what else to say. You're not going to convince me to like the idea, nor are you going to get me in a "I gotcha!" moment through logic.
I just don't like the idea, and that's life.
You gonna pay for breastfeeding rooms, then? Some companies have them, but most do not, unlike restrooms, where all establishments have them, and most of them are public.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
It is up to the business owner to determine if they want to install those or not.
Once again, you're trying to suggest that I'm trying to force my opinion onto others.
Perhaps that is because you cheered those who did so with smoking?
You consider breastfeeding in public to be a problem because you'd rather they didn't.
If the government decided to ban public breastfeeding and/or make public places add nursing rooms and you either a) voted against it, or b) didn't vote at all for one reason or another, what would you do after the law was enacted?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
I'd oppose such a law. It isn't the government's job to say where one can breastfeed any more than it is the government's job to say where one is allowed to smoke.
I'd oppose such a law.
The law's enacted. What would you do to oppose it?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
The same as I do regarding anti-smoking laws. Write congressmen and complain that it is not their job to remove freedoms from us.
What do you do? Post blogs?
When it's not in my Congressman's jurisdiction, yes, it's blogs (these are state laws, remember). Otherwise, I do the same as you and write to them.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Then, exactly, what more do you want of me?
To take a look at the blogs I've posted in your absence. :)
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
I don't look down on people who urinate in public either...so maybe I'm just gross.
Love ya,
Carrot
Alright this comparison of breastfeeding vs public urination has finally been too much. There are multiple very good reasons why we don't allow public urination, the very least having anything to do with public decency.
Long ago there used to be frequent public urination. Public health problems ran rampant. It is unsanitary and that is the #1 reason we keep it in designated rooms, not public decency. Breastfeeding is not a health risk for anyone outside of the mother and child. No one else is affected directly.
I'm glad you do not want a gov't ban and that you are willing to deal with it against your distaste, but likening it to public urination is a disconnected logic system is that is just as unjustified and not a parallel argument to breastfeeding.
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Even if you feed or pump ahead of time, you still have to do so again every 2 to 3 hours to keep supply, prevent infections and all that good stuff. So, you can plan ahead all you want... it won't negate that you're going to be in public at some point and have to either pump or breastfeed.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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I understand that. I've worked with women who would go into the restroom or close the door to their office in order to pump (they'd have a sign that says "Do not disturb"
However, that doesn't change my lack of desire to see public breastfeeding.
I'm not demanding that it be made law or anything, but I can still have my opinion.
*grin*
I know and I respect that you have an opinion. I just happen to agree.
And we're back at that entire bathroom thing again. That we would rather a woman go into a public restroom to feed her child than for our delicate sensibilities to chance a little flesh is to me, incomprehensible. Most of us don't even like to pee in a public restroom... why the heck would we want to feed a kid there?! I wouldn't make as big a fuss if we actually had nursing rooms (the mall here actually just added one) for breastfeeding mothers... but we don't do that and then we gripe about public breastfeeding. Sorry... I'd rather you be offended than my kid eat where people poop.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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I'd rather you be offended than my kid eat where people poop.
Here, here!
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Breastfeeding does create a bond between the mom and baby. It's also healthier than formula and is better for the child'd health over all. But I don't like when people do it in public. Or when you're with someone and they decide to feed their kid in front of you. It's not polite.
I know people who breastfeed and they have to work their schedule around the kid's eating habits. "We can't go out at 6:00 'cause we have to feed (fill in a name)." It's a whole other option to formula.
I would personally say that asking a mother to cover up or to go into the restroom is less polite than feeding in public. If you don't cover your head to eat or eat in a restroom... why should an infant?
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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I don't know that it is so much that an infant is eating, but the public nudity.
That whole 'social decency' thing.
I don't really buy that one either though. I mean, men can walk around without their shirts and no one ever complains about the social decency thing. As soon, however, as a woman opens her shirt to begin breastfeed, an entire controversy pops up. Seems to me that if we're going to bitch, we should at least be fair enough to do so equally. It's either a social decency issue for both sexes or it's a moot point for both.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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men can walk around without their shirts
And last I checked, women don't even have to do any amount of unclothing. Especially if they have items from the whole slew of stuff designed for breastfeeding.
And why is it that everyone seems to think that mom has to get naked to breastfeed?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
No idea. My sister has to pump every 2 to 3 hours and she's never once gotten naked to do so and this is her 3rd kiddo. They have all sorts of modesty preserving clothing for breast feeding mother's these days... and people still flip when a woman breast feeds in public even if they never see a bit of skin.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Oh, I'm not much of a fan of men walking around without shirts, so I don't know if that 'double standard' bit works on me.
I don't think it's impolite. I don't cover my head when I'm eating, because I'm not feeding off of someone's boobs. That was a rediculous comment.
No more so than yours. Breastfeeding is natural... I would say that our over sexualization of the female breast to the point where we find it offensive to see an infant feeding off that selfsame organ is what is ridiculous.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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For the general record, this particular question has absolutely nothing to do with breastfeeding in public. There's another poll from quite some time ago that discusses that. This one is merely asking would you (or would you encourage, if you're a man) breastfeeding of your child.
~C
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Yup, and while I PERSONALLY cannot, being a guy and all, I do like the idea of breastfeeding for the reasons mentioned above and for a few others.
Good for the kid, Good for the mom, good all around.
Yeah... but that's where the debate is
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Yeah, it's pretty much unanimous that breastfeeding is good. The issue lies in whether or not it's "polite" to do so in public.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
I chose other. I would love to breastfeed, but with my medical history and the various medications they put me on, it may turn out to be safer not to breastfeed. We'll decide when we come to that bridge.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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I would not breastfeed if I were able to have a child (which is another story all together.) Like Fallon, I am on medications that I could not do without and would feel better bottle feeding than exposing an infant to so many toxins.
I picked the option that says I'm not having kids. Because I'm not planning on having kids...
but I am pro-breast feeding. :-)
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I tried to breast feed Izzy for About Two months, Unfortunately due to her being in the NICU, and being forced to go back to work my bosses would not let me take a break to pump, all of these circumstances made me unsuccessful at it, the nurses would not let me hold her to try to breast feed, and instead of letting me try to breast feed they would instead warm my breast milk and put it into a bottle, so i wound up drying up
and also, for the people who complain about mothers nursing in public, they make these sling things now that you would not even know if i was nursing while grocery shopping.they are really neat, and allot of moms use them.
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I wonder why that is. My sister hasn't been able to breast feed any of hers because they were in NICU, but she pumps for them religiously and gets a freaking ton of milk; 6 to 9 ounces each time. Others though, can try until they're blue in the face and are lucky to produce one or two cc's.
Why wouldn't they let you hold her to attempt to feed?
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Once again I vote "other".
I don't see myself in the future having children, but if I ever do I'd breatfeed. I've heard it's better for the baby than that formula stuff.
~ *~
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Yay, boobies! Breast feed all the way!!
I think it's ridiculous when people choose not to breastfeed just because they don't want to. I understand some people can't for various reasons, but when people say they aren't breastfeeding their newborn just because "I just don't want to," I get pretty angry.
Not only does breastfeeding create a bond between mommy and baby, it helps create a healthy immune system for the little one and give him necessary nutrients for growth that you just can't get from formula. It helps mommy lose the baby weight and helps both mommy and baby regulate their hormones.
Unless there are health concerns (like some people have mentioned medication) or it's really impossible to breastfeed (you don't produce or your baby's are in NICU, for example), I think it's ridiculous not to :-/
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You are the Voice of the Childwen of the Revowution! [Toulouse, Moulin Rouge]
Since this has ended up being more of a debate on whether or not it's okay to breastfeed in public, I'd like to make note of an old blog post regarding a woman getting kicked off a plane because she was discreetly breastfeeding her child and politely refused a blanket offered in order to be "more discreet."
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
A company is allowed to do as they wish.
Breastfeeding is not a group protected by any "Human Rights" commission.
While that woman (and any woman, for that matter) may have a right to breastfeed (though I'd call it an ability rather than a right, but that's a pet peeve of mine and unrelated to this), she does not have a right to do so anywhere she chooses.
If you're in an airplane, you are not in YOUR private area. That area belongs to the airline and they are allowed to have rules as they see fit (provided they do not discriminate against someone based on protected status such as race)
Pe