Yes
8% (4 votes)
No
37% (18 votes)
Who's Sean Bell?
55% (27 votes)
Total votes: 49
Do you agree with the verdict in the Sean Bell shooting case?
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Poll
Is the right to die or justice for victims more important (read first comment)?
Right to die
0%
Justice for victims
67%
Neither
33%
Total votes: 3
Vote
I'm too lazy to look the guy up... shooting cases aren't the most interesting gigs. I don't even watch CSI...
The Once-ler: Well, what do you want? I should shut down my factory, fire a hundred-thousand workers? Is that good economics, is that sound for the country?
I don't know what's sadder, the cold hearted person who voted yes or the people who have no idea what's going on.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
I voted yes because I see no conceivable option except for a cop to shoot if he believes he is in danger.
When you're shooting, it's not realistic nor safe for any cop to stop and look to see if he shot the guy every few seconds. You keep shooting until you see the man down on the floor.
Another problem is that Sean was belligerent and his friends untrustworthy in court.
In these cases, the only option is to trust the cops unless they've shown reason not to.
It is unfortunate when somebody who is apparently an innocent gets killed in our society. But the cops have an extremely dangerous job and I don't want to put them in the position of being afraid to use their weapons. If we don't support the police and give them a strong benefit of the doubt then a lot more people are going to be dying in the future.
Another problem is the prosecution did not attack the issue as well as they could have. It was an unpopular case, and no one wanted to touch it. The testimony from the witnesses were weak, yes, but any good lawyer should have still been able to prosecute. Unarmed is unarmed.
He was unarmed. No one was shooting at the cops. What does his behavior in court have to do with what happened outside the night club? That was after the fact. A cop's job may be dangerous, but that doesn't mean they should be let off the hook when they kill an innocent person. Their job is to protect us. They should not be cops if they are too fearful to make a rational decision.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
So, I looked up the case on wikipedia so I wouldn't have to put "Who is Sean Bell?" as my answer. After researching, I chose "Who is Sean Bell?"
Honestly, this isn't that special of a case.
--Mike
Check out the Topic of the Week
http://www.progressiveu.org/weeklytopic
There really should have been an I don't know option. WTF?
Honestly, this isn't that special of a case.
That makes me sad. Fuck the world.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
If you're looking at it as a function of racism, I don't think it's right. I think it's more a function of government, class divides, etc. That's why I say it's not uncommon.
--Mike
Check out the Topic of the Week
http://www.progressiveu.org/weeklytopic
I agree with you. The fact that it's common is what makes me sad, not that you said it is. I think it's more government than racism. Black (and other minority) men are not as valued as whites, but cops of all colors get free passes all the time. They are just more likely to get a free pass with a minority victim, IHMO.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
I voted yes for the soul fact that at least they were punished. I wish they had gone to rot but embryowassup said it isn't so uncommon.
A man in my town, though he wasn"t a minority, was shot to death because he was carrying a katana and as he walked toward the officer he said "shoot me, shoot me" over and over again. The officer had something like thirty seconds to finally decide to shoot the man in the chest three time.
Oh and the city had spent near 40,00 on new handy stun guns on the belt he was wearing.
Weren't they acquitted of all charges? That doesn't seem like punishment to me.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
Not in the artical I read on the new york times website. It said two were charged with manslaughter and one with reckless endangerment. Not really fitting but a punishment none the less (well maybe a little less).
They were charged but then acquitted. The charges are what they were acquitted of...
-----
~Fallon~
“What is insanity, anyway? Is it when you scream and everyone else whispers, or is it when you fight for what's right, even when everyone else thinks your wrong?” Ethergoth
-----
oh, sorry...
I do not even watch the news, because the news people just find an angle that would make for a good story.
I haven't read the trial transcripts (yet). And I reserve the right to change my opinion once they are available. I do understand that undercover police work is difficult and dangerous, and I understand that even the most well-intentioned officer might make a mistake. But I think it is pretty hard to excuse firing 50 rounds into an unarmed man, regardless of the circumstances.
TTFN,
Blackout
-------------------------
Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
Cops know their jobs are dangerous and should be ready.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
I brought this case up on a forum for my Race, Class, Gender, and Work class. I'll just share some of that conversation:
me: ...not every poor person / minority deals drugs. I think that is buying into
stereotypes. I can understand that some do out of lack of options.
I found this article that I think proves a point about how people assume the worst out of the poor or minorities and how the justice system works against them: [article of acquittal]
I do understand that Bell and his friends weren't entirely innocent, but when shots are not fired back, is it not incredible excessive to fire FIFTY SHOTS?
her: I agree.
I could not imagine being in anyone's shoes in this situation. My question is, where is the racism? The article says, Others were enraged, swearing and screaming "Murderers! Murderers!" or "KKK!"
KKK? I don't understand why this was being shouted. Two of the three officers appear to be black. Did the officer that appears to be white shoot the most rounds? Yes! The last thing an officer wants to be be surprised by a gun and shot to death. These officers had reason to believe this man had a gun and was acting in a manner that could have put them into danger. Sadly this is a situation that obviously went wrong or bad.
me:I think it's a combination of racism and classism. Generally, no matter what race a cop is, the expectations of young black men are the same. 3 young black men leaving a seedy strip club at 4am just didn't look appropriate to them. This in fact does hold to negative stereotyping and I believe could be racism. There are racists among and against all groups.
I had a friend that worked at the Marion County jail. He saw that at least 90% of the people he saw in there were minorities. They treated him badly, as I would expect anyone being locked up would treat a CO. He left that job as a racist because of what he saw in there. After he had been out of the job for a while, he realized that the criminal justice system is biased. This is just to say that if you're a cop, and your rounds are in poor neighborhoods (which most are, as poor=desperate=potential crime) you start to believe that all people remotely like that are guilty of something.
"The last thing an officer wants to be be surprised by a gun and shot to death. These officers had reason to believe this man had a gun and was acting in a manner that could have put them into danger. Sadly this is a situation that obviously went wrong or bad."
I don't think the officers did have reason to believe that any of them had guns. One man "looked like he was reaching for a gun." Could he have been ducking from all the shots fired? I believe the reason they thought they might be in danger is because three young black men walked out of a seedy strip club at 4am. The 50 shots fired wouldn't have made sense to me even if they were getting fired upon by a handgun.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
3 NYPD detectives cleared in wedding-day shooting
By TOM HAYS, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 33 minutes ago
NEW YORK - Three detectives were acquitted Friday in the 50-shot killing of an unarmed groom-to-be on his wedding day, a case that put the NYPD at the center of another dispute involving allegations of excessive firepower.
Scores of police officers surrounded the courthouse to guard against potential chaos, and as news of the verdict spread, many in the crowd began weeping. Others were enraged, swearing and screaming "Murderers! Murderers!" or "KKK!"
Inside the courtroom, spectators gasped. Sean Bell's fiancee immediately walked out of the room; his mother cried.
Bell, a 23-year-old black man, was killed in a hail of gunfire outside a seedy strip club in Queens on Nov. 25, 2006 as he was leaving his bachelor party with two friends. The case ignited the emotions of people across the city and led to widespread protests among those who felt the officers used unnecessary force.
Officers Michael Oliver, 36, and Gescard Isnora, 29, stood trial for manslaughter while Officer Marc Cooper, 40, was charged with reckless endangerment. Two other shooters weren't charged. Oliver squeezed off 31 shots; Isnora fired 11 rounds; and Cooper shot four times.
The case brought back painful memories of other NYPD shootings, such as the 1999 shooting of Amadou Diallo — an African immigrant who was gunned down in a hail of 41 bullets by police officers who mistook his wallet for a gun. The acquittal of the officers in that case created a storm of protest, with hundreds arrested after taking to the streets in demonstration.
Though emotions ran high, there were no immediate problems outside the courthouse Friday, where many wore buttons with Bell's picture or held signs saying "Justice for Sean Bell." Some people approached police after the verdict was read, but they were held back and the jostling died down quickly.
William Hardgraves, 48, an electrician from Harlem, brought his 12-year-old son and 23-year-old daughter to hear the verdict. "I hoped it would be different this time. They shot him 50 times," Hardgraves said. "But of course, it wasn't."
The officers, complaining that pretrial publicity had unfairly painted them as cold-blooded killers, opted to have the judge decide the case rather than a jury.
The judge, Justice Arthur Cooperman, indicated when he delivered the verdict that the officers' version of events was more credible than the victims' version. "The people have not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that each defendant was not justified" in firing, he said.
Hours later, the officers appeared at a news conference.
"I'd like to say sorry to the Bell family for the tragedy," Cooper said, thanking God, his lawyers and the police officers who supported him.
The U.S. attorney's office said after the verdict that it had been monitoring the state's prosecution and would conduct an independent review of the case. The Rev. Al Sharpton, who represents Bell's family, called for a federal investigation.
"This verdict is one round down, but the fight is far from over," Sharpton said on his radio show. "What we saw in court today was not a miscarriage of justice. Justice didn't miscarry. This was an abortion of justice."
Michael Palladino, president of the Detectives Endowment Association, responded angrily to Sharpton's suggestion that the verdicts were unfair.
"That's despicable for him to say that because we have the greatest criminal justice system on earth," he said.
The nearly two-month trial was marked by deeply divergent accounts of the night.
The defense painted the victims as drunken thugs who the officers believed were armed and dangerous. Prosecutors sought to convince the judge that the victims had been minding their own business, and that the officers were inept, trigger-happy aggressors.
Both sides were consistent on one point: The utter chaos surrounding the last moments of Bell's life.
"It happened so quick," Isnora said in grand jury testimony. "It was like the last thing I ever wanted to do."
Bell's companions — Trent Benefield and Joseph Guzman — offered dramatic testimony. Both were wounded in the shooting; Guzman still has four bullets lodged in his body.
Referring to Isnora, Guzman said, "This dude is shooting like he's crazy, like he's out of his mind."
The victims and shooters were set on a fateful collision course by a pair of innocuous decisions: Bell's to have a last-minute bachelor party at Kalua Cabaret, and the undercover detectives' to investigate reports of prostitution at the club.
As the club closed around 4 a.m., Sanchez and Isnora claimed they overheard Bell and his friends first flirt with women, then taunt a stranger who responded by putting his right hand in his pocket as if he had a gun. Guzman, they testified, said, "Yo, go get my gun" — something Bell's friends denied.
Isnora said he decided to arm himself, call for backup — "It's getting hot," he told his supervisor — and tail Bell, Guzman and Benefield as they went around the corner and got into Bell's car. He claimed that after warning the men to halt, Bell pulled away, bumped him and rammed an unmarked police van that converged on the scene with Oliver at the wheel. The detective also alleged that Guzman made a sudden move as if he were reaching for a gun.
Guzman said Isnora "appeared out of nowhere" with a gun drawn and shot him in the shoulder — the first of 16 shots to enter his body.
"That's all there was — gunfire," he said. "There wasn't nothing else."
With tires screeching, glass breaking and bullets flying, the officers claimed that they believed they were the ones under fire. Oliver responded by emptying his semiautomatic pistol, reloading, and emptying it again, as the supervisor sought cover.
The truth emerged when the smoke cleared: There was no weapon inside Bell's blood-splattered car.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
i do agree. i believe the verdict was fair.
it is horrible that a life was lost; that is something that cannot be taken back.
but a cop thought he was in danger fired his weapon.
yes 50 bullets are excessive, but with all the bullets ricashaying, it would be extreamly difficult for someone to see where they are comming from in a matter of seconds.
these cops made a mistake, but the life is already lost, and im sure theire guilt is their punishment enough. there is no need to ruin their lives and the lives of there familys too.
"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi
an apropriet quotes for the situation at hand.
in closing, i find the virdict just
So if a person feels guilty they shouldn't be punished? Three idiots should be able to remain police officers and put other people's lives in danger because they made a mistake, or they were scared? Police officers know full well their jobs are dangerous. They should be able to act rationally in a "dangerous" situation because that's what the job calls for.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
Nobody's saying that we should let 3 people rapid-fire 50 bullets at them...
No, I really don't think guilt is punishment enough. I think the thing they regret most is that there were no weapons found.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."