Absolutely.
73% (46 votes)
No!
8% (5 votes)
I don't know.
11% (7 votes)
Other (please explain)
8% (5 votes)
Total votes: 63
Should voters be required to present proof of registration?
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Poll
Is the right to die or justice for victims more important (read first comment)?
Right to die
0%
Justice for victims
67%
Neither
33%
Total votes: 3
Vote
How else can we ensure that those voting are really American citizens? Illegal aliens should not be able to vote.
Dearest Ivy...................
If you are registered to vote, your name appears on a list at the polling center. What I am concerned about is not voting by illegals, but rather attempts by Reps or Dems to stuff the boxes with multiple votes under one registration...this is yet another case for voting by internet
BTW, my lady went to vote in the primaries and was asked if she was Dem or Rep. When she replied she was a Dem, a poll worker went around to the rear of the booth while she was voting...anyone hear of a similar incident and/or have an explanation?
Chuckhoek
Yep I dig showing registration. But before the election of 2004 rolled around I had a conversation with a man living on the street who said he was unable to vote because he didn't have a proof of residency. Seemed a bit unethical to me.
"I understand that this car is pretty expensive but it has more to it than any Ferrari can give to our earth and people." -- crystalcraze13, a ProU blogger
I must've been thinking cops when I put this up, because I totally meant to put 'citizenship', and not 'registration'. I'm so spacey.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
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In that case then my answer is Yes.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
Usually the argument against showing proof of citizenship is that it has the potential to disinfranchise the poor, the elderly and the infirm.
Personally, I think this is kind of a bogus argument. If somebody is so disconnected from our society that they can't find some sort of picture ID, I am not at all sure they should be allowed to vote.
But I suppose that there should be provisions in the law to provide people who can't otherwise afford it with some free identity documents.
Why shouldn't the ID-challenged be allowed to vote? We certainly have no problem allowing Reps to screw with the electoral process every 4 years (Thanx Karl Rove) Maybe the ID-less are honest enough to balance the scales
Chuckhoek
Or maybe they are dishonest enough to pretend like they have no ID and go around to multiple polling locations and vote multiple times.
Without checking ID who knows?
But as I stated in my previous post, there probably should be a way for people who cannot afford an ID to get one for free. That is a reasonable compromise. If somebody lacks the initiative to take advantage of this taxpayer funded benefit then it does not bother me to turn them away from the polls on election day.
I don't know about other states, but here you can get an ID if you can provide some forms of identification (SS, Addressed mail, etc). But it still remains that homeless people don't have a way to prove their identity unless they already have these things. I know the short time i was homeless it was hell trying to deal with the state, the insurance companies, etc. Trying to get our affairs in order without any sort proof that we were who we said we were.. It was more than just annoying.
But that raises the question, do we just cast the homeless and make it so only the tax payers can vote? It seems to me that this is a flaw in the system that needs to be addressed.
I can see how it is a problem, but it does not seem like a problem that should be solved at the polling place on election day. If a person anticipates voting in November then it is not unreasonable to expect them to start getting their affairs in order in September. It's not like they don't know that they are ID challenged. From what you describe, it sounds like getting some ID would generally be beneficial to a homeless person for reasons other than voting anyway. If a homeless person is not motivated enough to take whatever steps are necessary tto obtain what I agree should be a free ID then I am not concerned if they are turned away from the polling place.
All states provide ID cards for those who do not/can not acquire a driver's license. The trouble is no picture ID (save, I believe for military IDs in most cases) are not free at all. The fee may not be huge, but you must have some money to throw at getting picture ID. I would argue that a government ID of any sort should be provided for no charge, but the government would never do that so those without excess money have that right revoked unfortunately.
The Heathen's Guide
LUST (Part I)
LUST (Part II)
Not all homeless but a very substantial portion of homeless convert all of the money that comes their way into drugs an alcohol. A favorite tactic is to sell food stamps for cash.
I really don't mind disenfranchising anybody who chooses to use their excess money to buy a bottle of booze rather than a State ID. It is a choice.
But I would not object if there was a means test for providing free ID to poverty stricken people either. If that was the compromise necessary to get a legislature to agree to checking photo IDs in the polling places then I would go for it in a heartbeat.
If it is going to be a requirement for voting, it has to be free of charge; otherwise, it's a poll tax.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
That was one of the arguments made against the state of IN for providing state-issued photo IDs. It costs more to pay for one of those than the poll taxes that were outlawed.
When it comes down to it, some people really are thinking, "OK, I can spend $9 on an ID or buy groceries for my kids," what do you think will happen? The people with the most to lose aren't able to vote. Not to mention, you have to find your social security card and birth certificate, and if you can't... Do you know how much it costs to get replacement certification?
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
Gee... Let me guess what political party you represent...
The poll was based around the idea of picture ID's, not whether or not you believe anyone who is not Democrat isn't worth your time or comments.
Nice job (inserted sarcasm throughout!)
---
http://progressiveu.org/blog/profstevevo
"Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?” (Sun Tzu)
There is so much voter fraud that I believe proof of both registration and citizenship is important. No, if you are not legally in this country then until to take the necessary steps to join us legally you have no say in our government. No, just because your neighbor passed away doesn't mean you get their vote this year.
The Heathen's Guide
LUST (Part I)
LUST (Part II)
This kind of goes hand in hand with the amendment that states you need to be natural born citizen to be president. If your not a citizen, you shouldn't have influence over the presidency (not natural born), and there should be measures in place already to ensure this. Otherwise our entire system of government, and always has been, compromised.
Yeah, maybe, but didn't Barbara Bush deliver Georgie by c-section? Not what I'd call a "natural birth"
Chuckhoek
We're not talking about Hamlet here. Natural-born is just a contrast to naturalized. In one, you are a citizen by birth, and the other, you have to take a test (among other things) in order to become a citizen.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
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Another off-comment post by Chuckhoek...
I can't wait to hear from those women out there who would love to debate the issue of childbirth with you...
---
http://progressiveu.org/blog/profstevevo
"Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?” (Sun Tzu)
Representative democracy is bad enough; proof of registration is definitely a necessity to prevent ballot box stuffing.
--Mike
Check out the Topic of the Week
http://www.progressiveu.org/weeklytopic
We certainly have a problem with illegal aliens who attempt to vote, but I don't think that a proper response to that problem is to infringe on the fundamental freedoms of citizens. Citizens who are not reasonably suspect of having committed a crime are entitled to a reasonable expectation of privacy, and even anonymity. Just the suspicion that there might be an illegal alien standing in line with a bunch of citizens doesn't (in my opinion) rise to a level that would justify instituting a mandatory national identification for citizens (and let's be honest, that's ultimately what we're talking about here). I grant that a mandatory national identification would indeed help to combat the problems of illegal aliens at the polls, but the problem is that's not all that it would do.
The citizens of this county do not owe a pre-emptive accounting of who they are to the government. The bottom line is that a people subjected to a government that can easily identify and track them are not free. This is especially true when that government uses that information to place access barriers between the people and their fundamental freedoms (which is exactly what is being suggested in this discussion). It is easy to justify this idea, when one narrowly construes the impact of such a program to the illegal population. But the real impact of measures like this fall overwhelmingly more on the shoulders of the law abiding citizen than it does on the illegal population.
And in response to concerns about "ballot stuffing" and "voter fraud," one can legitimately counter those arguments (in my opinion) by noting that measures like the madadory picture i.d. for voting seem dangerously similar in practice to poll taxes and literacy tests, which systematically (and by design) had a greater effect on certain disfavored demographics within the population. The elderly, poor and disabled especially would be disproportionately burdened by any such program, for example, since those demographics have a more difficult time arranging the means of travel and money that would logically be necessary to get to the licensing location and to pay for the service of creating the i.d.
In the end, I think that this idea is a bad one. These programs represent a shallow response to the issue of illegal immigration, and targets the symptoms of that problem rather than addressing its causes. Such programs are expensive, inefficient, and prone to disinfranchise actual citizens. It seems to me that the appropriate venue for responding to illegal immigration is to reform our immigration policies into something more intelligent than they are right now, to tighten border enforcement of those policies, and to treat violations of those policies like what they are...a crime. It does NOT seem appropriate to me to use this issue as an excuse to strip even more fundamental freedoms away from our citizens.
TTFN,
Blackout
-------------------------
Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
If you don't know, Indiana has one of the strictest voting rules in the US. It just went to court, and it still stands that you CANNOT vote without a STATE ISSUED PHOTO ID. Why? To end fraud. How many cases of voter fraud (as in somebody voting under someone else's name) has happened in the state of Indiana? Well, none....
I have never been worried about voter fraud by other voters. My worry lies with the people that work the booths. When you register to vote, your name is on a list in your voting area. When you vote, you sign to prove that you did put your vote in. What happens to the votes of the people that didn't show up? Is it outside the realm of possibility for one person or more in there to put in votes for them?
You cannot register to vote if you are not a citizen, so this whole poll is moot. Have people been watching way too much FOX news?? Are people really so paranoid of "those damn illegals" that they think there is a threat that they will have the audacity to try to vote? C'mon... Sadly, many of the undocumented workers know more about US history and government than much of the population here legally.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
But you live next door to Illinois and they are past masters at ballot box stuffing particularly in Chicago.
Even being close to that much corruption would make me feel better about having a system that guaranteed the integrity of the vote.
I think it is kind of disingenuous to argue that nobody has ever been a case of voter fraud in Indiana when in fact their has never been a system capable of DETECTING voter fraud. Your system may have been rife with fraud and you all never would have known it.
Excuse me, known cases to prove the necessity of a program that disenfranchises poor and elderly citizens.
There is corruption throughout our government. Like I said, I'm more worried about what happens when the volunteers are there alone with the lists of people that didn't show up.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
There is corruption throughout our government. Like I said, I'm more worried about what happens when the volunteers are there alone with the lists of people that didn't show up.
That is an excellent point. There should be protections against that type of fraud TOO.
I favor protecting against BOTH types of election fraud.
I personally would like to know that if I forget my proof of registration, that it's not a big deal. However, not everyone is as truthful as me. Somebody might sneak in there and vote for Nater or something. :)
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