Red Light Cameras and the People's Rights

markeggertsen's picture

I could have a lot of categories and titles for this blog. I don't even know where to begin. I was probably around eighteen or nineteen when the cameras went up. They were used in traffic enforcment. The idea was that a camera, situated near the traffic signal opposite the intersection of the driver would take said driver's photo, "flashing" them if and when they ran the red light. The aim was to reduce red light runners and other violators by "catching them right in the act." In a perfect twist of coincidence, this system also proved wholly lucrative both for the state and the private corporation that installed the cameras and administrated the tickets! What a coincidence!

Am I the only one who feels like the PUBLIC'S law enforcment has been contracted out to a private corporation (in my state, it's RedFlex Traffic Systems, but there are others), and that this is alarming. After some initial research, I found out that RedFlex isn't even a U.S.-based company. It's based in Australia. Since when do these people have the right to watch us and enforce our laws?

There was a great public outcry when the cameras went up. People felt entrapped by the system. Many others felt it infringed on our "right to privacy." There have been more complaints. One man from Knoxville, TN, one Clifford E. Clark, was even alleged to have opened fire on a camera after he had been flashed, He later filed a lawsuit against the company enforcing the cameras, had his house broken into by police, and was terribly beaten. He has his own website, and there's even an article about the occurrence, respectively, here:

Cliff Speaks:

http://www.cliffspeaks.com/

The incident:

http://www.piratenews.org/kill-robocops.html

http://tnjn.com/2008/may/03/some-knoxvillians-wont-say-che/

An attorney from Tenessee, known for his long, flowing locks, denim overalls, and left-leaning politics, also filed suit against the traffic enforcment company, delivering sharp-tongued indictments against them, including this one:

"The City of Knoxville has commenced systematic and widespread photographic and video surveillance of the everyday activities and comings and goings of people. This is being done without warrant and without any showing of probable cause. Such widespread and systematic surveillance (is) evidence that the nightmare age envisioned by George Orwell is now upon us in full force (and) cannot but have a chilling effect upon our freedoms of speech and peaceable assembly guaranteed by the First Amendment."

It has been proven that the average U.S. citizen is on camera or otherwise under some sort of surveillance more than ever before, and the installation of these cameras is just another twisted turn in this nightmarish scenario.

My complaints about the cameras also includes Constitutional arguements. For example, "probable cause" is much discussed, and used, in the search or monitoring of someone or their residence in law. Probable cause is a way of ensuring one's right to privacy and guarding them against "unlawful searches and seizures." One has to show there is "probable cause" for this type of activity, and be granted a warrant before commencing with this sort of activity. The cameras have neither.

Also, aside from right to privacy arguements, we have due process, as essential as habeus corpus in which one has the right to face his accuser (it literally translates as "to deliver the body") to enforcing the law in a fair and balanced way. Have you ever "served" someone? I have. You often have to resort to using a friend, the police, or a process server in order to do it. Subpoena's, I think, must also be "Served." When you are pulled over by a cop, you are essentially "served" with a written document, signed by the officer. I don't think sending someone a ticket by mail qualifies. At least, it didn't when I was trying to take someone I knew top court. Apparently Redflex goes by different rule than the rest of us? This is all necessary because the accussed has a right to be notified, publicly, of the accusations against them.

I also have reason to beleive that Redflex is knowingly lying to the public on a regular basis. This video shows some evidence of that: http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/ron-paul-4409-redflex-ats-wages-war-on-we-...

The company's trump card when they have been accused of "spying" or surveillancing the public has always been "We only photograph people who break the law." Have you ever been flashed by one of these cameras? In many instances, you can view a video of your automobile committing the supposed violation. The video, and often the photgraphs (themselves still images taken from the video) shows your car before it reaches the intersection, committing the supposed violation, and after the supposed infraction. If they only photograph people who break the law, then why is there video of your car BEFORE you even reached the intersection of the red light? Does RedFlex have ESP?

Things are getting worse all the time too. At first, there were only a few cameras at the busiest intersections. They multiplied like rats, and have sprread all across the country (and have met particular resistance in Oregon, Arizona [where civil suits have been filed against the company, and from where the 4409 campaign, highlighted in one of the above videos, originated) and especially in Knoxville, TN, where Roland Cowden hails from, and where the City, after much controversy and a missed deadline, decided not to renew their contract with Redflex). The cameras have traditionally met the most resistance wheh the new speeding radar cameras were installed. This is not surprising. They are coming to California, I hear, and, again, there is much public outcry.

I myself have spoken to around three lawyers, two of which were possed both on ethical and professional standpoints, and another who admitted they were irritating, but felt they helped prevent accidents. For those of you who agree with this, the city of El Monte in VCalifornia recently decided to give the axe to the Reflex program after statistical data failed to show a decrease in red-light related accidents. I don't know about you, but those cameras make me a more nervous driver, and not a better one. The flashes themselves can also be blinding. A street here in Ventura, CA has a camera that has a hair trigger and goes off constantly, even when people are not violating the law. This distraction, in itself, could cause an accident. There is more evidence I've seen to suggest that the benifits of the cameras are at best marginal. What they do do is generate a hell of a profit for our struggling cities and for a large, for-profit, out-of-country corporation which not only takes our photographs, but processes the tickets! Am I the only one who sees something creepy about all of this?

Even if the cameras were hugely benificial, I must ask: at what COST!? Once we give up our rights, or have them stripped away by the likes of the Bush administration, or by a corporation favored by corrupt politicians in bed with said corporation, it is VERY hard to get said rights back. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, those who give up permanent liberty for temporary security neither deserve neither.

I myself have fought and won these tickets in court, and not on Constitutional grounds (and believe you and me that many interpret these cameras, and increasing surveillance in general, as "Big Brother's" growing power) but on grounds involving the visibility of the light and camera. I have fought another one as well, but regardless of what happen, I have pledged to myself that I am going to fight these companies and those who allow them dto do what they do. I acknowledge that money speaks louder than my words, but if I can't change things, I hope to at least become a thorn in the side of Redflex Traffic Systems.

One last thing: I beleive that those who run red lights, especially chronically or purposefully, need to be gheld accountable. What I argue with is the means our current law enforcement agencies are using to do just that.

misnomer's picture

Hm. While I would disagree with the city spending that much money and perhaps it would have been better to buy from an american comapny, I don't see how it is a violation of privacy. Afterall, you are on public space and its to stop traffic violation. And Cliff was definitely out of line for shooting the camera. The way they work is they are programed to take pictures, they can't be limited to just they people who run red lights. I think this is purely a money issue.

Like what you've read? Well, then here's more:
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tricia0711

markeggertsen's picture

Sure he was out of line to shoot the camera. I just used it to illustrate the anger of many people, and if you follow the link you will see that there is more to Cliff's story than assault on city property.

Also, under Constitutionally designated rights, one has the right to face his accuser. How do you argue with a camera, my friend? Theofficer who shows up in court didn't even see the supposed infraction when it occurred and their only frame of reference is a video which doesn't show anything about the driver's frame of reference or anything else.

misnomer's picture

So because the camera proves without a doubt that he ran the light it can't be used as evidence? Afterall, he could argue that he had to run the light or if he looked hard enough he could prove that a mistake is wrong. Besides, the camera or the picture aren't accusers, they're evidence.

Like what you've read? Well, then here's more:
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tricia0711

markeggertsen's picture

Yes. But an officer can also prove you smoke crack if he finds a craxk pipe in your bedside table, but since he didn't have a warrant to search your belongings and found it illegally, it can't be used as evidence. Same thing with the cameras. The evidence is not the issue here, dude. The process of discovery is.

The cameras are likely Unconstitutional for a myriad of reasons, their method of "discovery" not the least of these reasons.

misnomer's picture

And I see nothing illegal with the way the evidence was uncovered. These roads are public roads, paid for by taxes and when on them you have to follow the rules set forth. These cameras are a method for enforcing the rules, just like a police officer.

Are they really unconstitutional? which constitution do they violate?

P.S. I'm not a dude.

Like what you've read? Well, then here's more:
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tricia0711

A Certain Saint's picture

You agree to certain things by getting behind the wheel of a car and photographic survalience happens to be one of those things.

-acertainsaint-

markeggertsen's picture

Oh really? Since when? That's your opinion, and a majority of people, including Constitutional scholars, would disagree with you.

A Certain Saint's picture

Don't take that tone with me - I'm merely informing you about some of the things you agree to by partaking in certain privileges. It's a fact, not an opinion.

You sign stuff consenting to all sorts of rules and regulations and all sorts of other legalese when you get your drivers license. Rules and laws have been inacted in some states to specifically allow Red Light Cameras to be used in a Court of Law.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/auto_enforce.html


-acertainsaint-

markeggertsen's picture

Hey now -

I wasn't taking a tone with you. That's the problem with text . . . . . you have no idea what my tone is since you aren't hearing me speak. Assuming what someone's tone is over the internet is like trying to locate the one red popsicle in your fridge while blindfolded. I think you're mistaken about my tone.

Back to the point at hand, we sign up for all sorts of things when we get a license, sure. But if some of those things are Unconstitutional and enforced by the same law that is supposed to uphold our Constitution, then it is Unconstitutional, and should not be condoned by We the People, now should it? Period.

By the way, I like the Alex Grey avatar. Nice choice (my tone here is not intended to be sarcastic . . . I'm serious, just in case you're going to read into it).

A Certain Saint's picture

A) I love Alex Grey. I want to eventually get this hand tattooed to my back - at the full size of my hand.

B) There is something about the phrase "Oh really? Since when?" that lends itself to be construed as coming with a "tone." I merely meant that we're both adults, to some extent - though I shouldn't really count, so we should try and be slightly more civilized about this.

C) If in the course of the agreements we make to drive we agree to the laws concerning the Red Light Cameras, do We the People not condone the laws?

-acertainsaint-

markeggertsen's picture

A) Do you also enjoy the band TOOL?

B) Again, if I had been able to speak those words to you, you might have gotten another impression. Let's just chalk it up to "My bad."

C) Not at all. Plus, the whole issue here concerns the process of discovery and the ultimately frightening prospect that our law enforcment has been CONTRACTED out to a private, for-profit company. I've talked to lawyers nad driving instructors who agree. But then again, I've also heard from those who aren't sure where they stand on the issue, so there you go.

If you went to an employer for a job, were hired by contract and three months after your first day, the rules of the contract were changed without your consent, wouldn't you be upset? If not, what if the nature of those changes ran contrary to the U.S. Constitution. Well the cameras at best tread a very fine line as to whether or not they are Constitutional, and for a great variety of reasons. SOME of these are outlined in my blog above, others, you can find through research.

A Certain Saint's picture

A) I found TOOL before I found Alex Grey - I found Alex after reading his books. I own both Transfigurations AND Sacred Mirrors. I love MJK, too.

C) While yes, the institution of Red Light Cameras runs contrary to the idea of privacy outlined by the Constitution and Bill of Rights - it was instituted, we did agree to the laws, and there really is no danger provided you're not living in a state where the camera can be used as evidence in court.

The laws were instituted in the middle of the game, but you do have to renew your license every couple of years and for the period of time between, you could argue that the laws didn't apply to you yet and get out of the ticket as the camera couldn't be used as evidence.

In Germany, they use the camreas on the famous-road-who's-name-escapes-me-right-now to catch people who are speeding in excess of the posted limits (or driving too slow). These cameras catch you in approx. 5 angles - the red light camreas work on the same concept.

Not saying it's right, merely justifications.

-acertainsaint-

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