Abraham Lincoln: Not the God We Think He Is.

scraps of former sanity's picture
Tagged:  •    •    •    •    •    •    •    •    •    •    •  

I am currently taking Advanced Placement United States history. I live in the North and am a proud Bostonian, so don't even try to say that this is just caused by a hypothetical Southern bias. And yes, slavery should never be practiced.

Firstly, yes, it is true that Lincoln eventually freed the slaves in America. However, it was the worst emancipation process in Western history. No other Western nation needed a Civil War to end slavery. (By the way, slavery was NOT even a major cause of the Civil War. It was about money, tariffs, and states' rights. The Northerners knew that if the South successfully seceded, their own economy would have died. If slavery was non-existent at the time of the Civil War, there is no doubt in my mind that the South would have had the entire world's moral support.) Initially, the Emancipation Proclamation did not even free one slave. It only referred to slaves in territory outside of Union Control. The slaves in the Border States weren't even freed. The states it applied to just took the document and said, "No. This is bull." and laughed in its face. The only purpose it served was to set a moral basis for the North's cause symbolically, and many Northerners switched sides upon its signing. It seemed as if the South would win the Civil War for quite a while until Ulysses S. Grant came into the picture. The states that rejoined the Union had to for their own survival at this point, but were essentially under duress to sign the 13th through 15th Amendments into law.

Moreover, the United States did not seem to catch on to the growing abolition movement in the rest of the world. England had outlawed slavery in 1834 without a Civil War, and the monarch even paid the slave owners just compensation for them. The former slave children were given something of an education so they could function in society. But the United States didn't have that. (http://www.pdavis.nl/Legis_07.htm)

Thirty years after the English outlawed slavery, America needed a Civil War to abolish it. It began with ineffective acts followed by renunciation of state sovereignty. The slaves were legally property. I don't agree with that, don't get me wrong, but the point is, if something is property, regardless of what it is, the government cannot take it away without just compensation as enumerated in the Constitution. The slaves were all just let out at once, without any money or education, so they really couldn't do much of anything. Even Northerners realized the gravity of this. After that, there was a Reconstruction period that effectively lasted nearly a century, until the Civil Rights Acts were passed in the 1960s.

But, I guess I should get back to Lincoln. He suspended habeas corpus at least three times, formed a blockade without Congressional authority, and was suspending rights of his dissenters even before the Emancipation Proclamation. The first habeas corpus suspension happened shortly after the Union loss at Fort Sumter (which was a necessary fort for collecting revenue from Southern trade. Lincoln's attitude was, essentially, "if you want to pretend you're outside the union, go ahead, but you're still going to pay me taxes").

On that side note, it must be addressed what the real cause of the Civil War was. It was about money and trade above all else. Slavery was small potatoes here. There were people in the North and the South who supported slavery, though certainly fewer in the North. The North depended on Southern raw materials, especially cotton, for their own manufacturing. The North was implementing unfair, protective tariffs on the South to protect their own economy. Southern foreign trade was coming to a standstill because of this, and Lincoln's election was the final straw. The South began seceding one state at a time. After that, the South had attempted to use "Cotton Diplomacy" to help get Europe on their side, but it ended unsuccessfully.

Moreover, Lincoln's attitude is apparent by his stubbornness over Fort Sumter. Sumter was located in the middle of Charleston Harbor. Charleston was a major Southern port, to say the least. If the North could apprehend it, it would have been a lot easier to collect revenues from tariffs (that they really had no authority to exert in the first place with the South having seceded). Otherwise, a ship blockade would have been necessary outside the city, and it can be easily maneuvered around.

For Lincoln to say that secession has no basis in American law is absolutely ridiculous. America was founded on the basis of secession-- secession from England. This seemed apparent to the rest of the world, especially England and France. Lincoln banned further talk of secession in a positive way because he knew that if it was allowed, he would surely lose support. Lincoln was not only a terrible leader, but a tyrant.

There are countless other instances which show Lincoln's tyrannical nature. There was the Trent Affair, in which two British diplomats were taken by the Union Navy as prisoners of war. They were diplomats on a non-war vessel, off to make decisions with the South. Yes, the North had the right to be concerned, but they certainly could have tried negotiating with Britain first.

So, the only real good thing Lincoln ever did was free the slaves, but even that was half-assed.

misnomer's picture

Although, in England, slavery was becoming less used anyways because it did not rely as heavily on agriculture whereas the south considered slavery necessary in order to keep their farms running.

Like what you've read? Well, then here's more:
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tricia0711

scraps of former sanity's picture

The Framers of the Constitution thought slavery would continue the same way. Thus the proposition within it of not doing anything about it until 1808 or later. Obviously, it didn't happen that way. It could have, if southern farmers tried to be more independent.
-----
Do read my post fully. Not only does it help you understand my point instead of making rash statements, but it also gives me some semblance of faith that people can read and understand an argument.

misnomer's picture

I think the constitution said that they would make the decision in thirty years. But when the cotton gin came around, the use of slavery continued to be of great importance.

Like what you've read? Well, then here's more:
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tricia0711

asmaw's picture

I still believe that for him to do what he did was the best only he could do, you can call him tyrant, despot, dictator or any variation. He saved the Union and I know it caused so much bloodshed and destruction but we are still one nation.

But this was really a good refresher for all those who might not remember the details of the Civil war.

"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude Fudge"It's the hard-knock life..."

scraps of former sanity's picture

Maybe. But suspending habeas corpus for dissenters? That's just unconstitutional tyranny. And who said the Union had to be saved? Secession was a legal concept. The Declaration of Independence stated that the only stipulation was the general consent of the people, which definitely existed. America was founded on the very concept. If the South was allowed to secede peacefully, the two sides would have made up and trade would have (eventually) continued. But both sides needed to be aggressive here.
-----
Do read my post fully. Not only does it help you understand my point instead of making rash statements, but it also gives me some semblance of faith that people can read and understand an argument.

asmaw's picture

I just don't agree with the view that secession would have been all right.

I don't think I said it was illegal...I also said that this was my personal belief and conclusions that I myself reached, just like you are making an argument for the South and clarifying that Lincoln was a tyrant that suspended basic constitutional and human rights...whereas I said that I look at it with the view that he did what he thought was best for the nation, a lot of people have taken this sort of stand over time and the outcomes have been ugly but in retrospect we can say all we want but there is not much we can do since that is the past, except for learn from our mistakes.

----
I enjoyed your blog, read all of it, gave it a high rating, now it is your job to trust that people don't only skim your words but have actually ascertained your points.

The DOI also stated:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

This is the passage that comes after the one above:
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude Fudge"It's the hard-knock life..."

scraps of former sanity's picture

There's all kinds of views over slavery, and the Declaration of Independence certainly shows a negative attitude towards it, but the Civil War and Southern Secession were NOT, I repeat, NOT over slavery! It was about unfair tariffs and wanting more foreign trade. The South's economy was not allowed to grow under Northern law. The problem is, no one wants to believe that they are fighting a war over economy. In fact, the South could not even at first unite over the cause of economics, though, so politicians like John C. Calhoun used slavery as a political ploy, when most of the North had no intention of removing it. Radical abolitionists were few at this time.

I'm not saying I support slavery in any way, but it seems as though you and countless others think that secession has to be a bad thing. But America and so many other nations were founded by secession from another empire, albeit England, any of the colonies in Africa, etc. America was also founded on the basis of small government and states' rights, considering that they had just broken away from a government they deemed tyrannical.

Besides, the American removal of slavery was so haphazardly done. They were just released into the rest of society without money nor education, and it took a century for the African Americans to get back on their feet.
-----
Do read my post fully. Not only does it help you understand my point instead of making rash statements, but it also gives me some semblance of faith that people can read and understand an argument.

asmaw's picture

REGARDLESS, the outcome was the freedom of these humans who were owned by other humans...wo/man, we don't have to argue over this.

I can respectfully disagree with your views, the problem is that you think I don't know this shit, and if you don't mind my saying, I took this american history ap course before you did (I am now in college)

"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude Fudge"It's the hard-knock life..."

scraps of former sanity's picture

I'm sorry that you think I'm being disrespectful, but I'm not trying to. I'm pretty sure I was just addressing your points, but all we're arguing here is whether something is a fact or not. >.> The removal of slavery was definitely a good thing. But as Cosmic said around the top of the comments section here, it was almost a coincidence that it happened. It wasn't even related to the Civil War until the Emancipation Proclamation. It was never in danger until that point, and virtually no one expected it.
-----
Do read my post fully. Not only does it help you understand my point instead of making rash statements, but it also gives me some semblance of faith that people can read and understand an argument.

asmaw's picture

I don't care what the reasons, if it was a coincidence or not, the fact is that Abe did it and I am thankful that he did. Don't think you were being disrespectful but you were teaching me something in the manner a teacher teaches a student whereas you should consider me as your equal (colleague)

ps never considered him a god, not even a demi-god.

"No, not rich. I am a poor man with money, which is not the same thing."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Love in the Time of Cholera Fudge "It's the hard-knock life..."

scraps of former sanity's picture

I'm not saying it's a bad thing that he freed the slaves. Of course that was a good thing! But wouldn't it have been a lot more Constitutional to pay the slaveholders just compensation to free the slaves and get an Amendment passed to get slavery completely illegal? There are more Constitutional ways of going about national (or even international) moral issues than ignoring the Constitution completely.

Also, a note on the Declaration of Independence; we can interpret "all men are created equal" that way now, but the Framers' intentions are very important. Many of them were slaveholders themselves.

As for the "god" thing, that was more of a metaphor or hyperbole than anything else. In the North, anyway, we're stuffed with pro-Lincoln education from the start. Freeing the slaves was definitely a good thing. It was still half-assed, though. It took nearly a century for equality to be granted after that, but I suppose it's mostly not Lincoln's fault.


Just to show my geekiness:
"You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek! You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Points if you get the reference.

asmaw's picture

It was for english AP, and it was about I think about Native Son, might be Black Boy, whichever has Bigger as the main character written by Richard Wright.

That is when my teacher told me all this about Civil War and Lincoln that you are trying to teach me today, this was about 5 years ago..so again, I know he half-assed it but he did it, didn't he :)

PS I remember this paper and will always remember it, because my teacher liked it so much that she read my paper in front of the whole class, of course she wanted me to read it but I said, no way, I did not think it was that good.

"No, not rich. I am a poor man with money, which is not the same thing." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Love in the Time of Cholera Fudge "It's the hard-knock life..."

_Meke's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return~Frida Kahlo

asmaw's picture

or that is what I was told...

"No, not rich. I am a poor man with money, which is not the same thing." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Love in the Time of Cholera Fudge "It's the hard-knock life..."

40 acres and a mule. that was supposed to be given to every single ex-slave family, but none was given.

shame shame shame shame

asmaw's picture

there IS a reason as to why I like Kanye:

"We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us
We trying to buy back our 40 acres
And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop
Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coop/coupe

[Chorus]

[Verse - Kanye West]
I say fuck the police, thats how I treat em
We buy our way out of jail, but we can't buy freedom..."

"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude Fudge"It's the hard-knock life..."

_Meke's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

The lyrics are too true.

I hope the departue is joyful and I hope never to return ~Frida Kahlo

asmaw's picture

:dances: lol, Sometimes he is spot on

"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude Fudge"It's the hard-knock life..."

cosmic's picture

Lincoln was in a lot of ways like Bush. He assumed vaguely defined and apparently limitless wartime powers. He ignored judicial orders.

And even though slavery took awhile to end in America, it would have ended eventually anyway for economic reasons- it didn't need a war, that was almost just a coincidence. The reason that slavery began to become unpopular in the early nineteenth century (including in England) is because of the rise of capitalism. It probably had little to do with the efforts of abolitionists.

Capitalism is bad for slavery because slavery is an extremely ineffective system. There is no incentive for the workers (slaves) to work better or harder, because they do not get paid. Paid labor in a capitalist system is more productive and effecient.

asmaw's picture

or maybe he is and I would rather not know why you think this other than the few reasons you mentioned above concerning war, habeas corpus and other judicial powers.

"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude Fudge"It's the hard-knock life..."

cosmic's picture

Maybe it was an exaggeration, but I still don't think it is much of one. Maybe one problem with comparing Lincoln and Bush the way I did raises a question nobody wants to answer: if Bush is like Lincoln, and people love Lincoln but hate Bush, shouldn't we love Bush?

I don't love him much right now, but I think the Lincoln example goes to show that we lack the historical perspective to pass judgment upon current presidents. We might hate Bush now, but perhaps he'll be better regarded 100 years from now- like Lincoln was.

asmaw's picture

to witness that day if it comes :grin:

"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can." - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude Fudge"It's the hard-knock life..."

_Meke's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

There is no incentive for the workers (slaves) to work better or harder, because they do not get paid. Paid labor in a capitalist system is more productive and effecient.

True. Slaves need the illusion of freedom to be effective workers.

I hope the departue is joyful and I hope never to return~Frida Kahlo

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.