In Keenan's recent post, we were encouraged to list the "new things" we'd done over the past year. One thing I mentioned was praying at an abortion facility and watching girls walk in. She asked me about this, so I thought I'd post this essay that I wrote for a person or event that changed my life that I had to write for my Christendom application. Please don't concentrate on the Obama part. I have enough blogs about Obama and the FOCA that you can argue with me on. I changed some things as to make it a bit more vague, but here's the essay:
I write this essay on November 4, 2008, shortly after discovering the devastating news that Obama will likely become this country’s 44th President. I feel that this reality will deeply affected my purpose in life as something even more important and something I must work even harder for due to these new circumstances.
This past summer, I attended a Catholic youth conference. The Conference took place from Thursday-Sunday. On Saturday morning, all the kids dragged themselves out of bed no later than 5 A.M. (because at 5 A.M., a bunch of the staff went down the dorm halls banging on pots, banging on bedroom doors and making other noises to wake everyone up. Luckily, I woke up seconds before they came down the halls). We had an early breakfast and then drove to the local abortion facility.
Beginning at 8 A.M., all of us prayed the rosary across the street from the abortion facility. Although it was not my first time praying in front of an abortion facility, it was my first time witnessing women walking inside the facility. It was truly heart breaking to watch frightened woman after frightened woman walk into the facility. One girl walked in with her hands over her ears. Others walked in sobbing. As I stood there, I had the heart wrenching realization that just across the street, babies were dying at the hands of “doctors.” Just across the street, women were making irrevocable choices to destroy their babies’ lives. The thought was almost unbearable.
After praying the Joyful, Sorrowful, and Glorious mysteries, we quietly walked back to our buses to drive to a church for Mass. I feel sorry for the priest who offered the Mass for us. We were all so tired that the majority of people fell asleep during the homily. After Mass, we proceeded to the Church basement where we enjoyed sandwiches and soft drinks (caffeine!) for lunch.
After we ate our lunches, we had a guest speaker. The guest speaker was a woman (we’ll name her Mary for this discussion). She, like many others, had bought into the abortion lies and had committed two abortions. With her was her eldest (alive) daughter, who had also nearly died due to abortion. Mary shared with us that she had not committed the third abortion because she had spent the money on a pizza instead of the abortion. Before she could acquire more money, her father discovered she was pregnant. Tears welled up in my eyes as she sang God’s praises for allowing pizza to prevent her from destroying her child. Her daughter is now in her 20s.
Mary had been with us that morning at the abortion facility. I had seen her across the street with her Bible in hand begging, at the top of her voice, the girls inside not to go through with the abortion. She told us that she had been doing that every day the abortion facility was open (five days a week) for over a year. She spoke with such passion that morning. I marveled at how passionately she spoke for someone who did that every day.
I cried when she announced that four women had decided not to go through with the scheduled abortions that morning. Four lives had been saved! Four women would not have to endure the horrible scars of abortion for the rest of their lives. God had used countless numbers of people (including me!) to touch those women’s hearts and stop them from making the permanent decision to end innocent human life.
Over the past year, I had been considering work in the pro-life movement with more seriousness and depth. After that day, I was convinced. I knew that day that I wanted to devote my whole life to work in the pro-life movement. I’m not sure how. All I know is that it’s something I want to do. Sadly, if the Freedom of Choice Act (an act that Obama claims is going to be amongst the first he signs) passes, then the hard work of the pro-life movement over the past 36 years will be demolished within seconds. If this occurs, the pro-life movement will need new faces even more desperately. This war for life is something we cannot give up on. This is something vitally necessary in our society. Because of this, I want to be a part of the movement. These reasons are why I chose the events of that day, as an experience that has had a deep impact in my life. Through God’s grace, it will continue to influence my decisions and guide me in my future.
It was truly heart breaking to watch frightened woman after frightened woman walk into the facility. One girl walked in with her hands over her ears. Others walked in sobbing.
If it was so heartbreaking, why didn't you go away and stop scaring them? All they wanted was to be able to visit the doctor in peace, without being stared at and harassed by a bunch of creepy strangers. How can you bring yourself to invade their private lives like that? They're women, not animals in a zoo.
As I stood there, I had the heart wrenching realization that just across the street, babies were dying at the hands of “doctors.” Just across the street, women were making irrevocable choices to destroy their babies’ lives.
Yes, just across that street, women were crying tears of joy and relief, and gratefully thanking their doctor for saving them from the unbearable situations they were in.
She, like many others, had bought into the abortion lies and had committed two abortions. With her was her eldest (alive) daughter, who had also nearly died due to abortion.
Oh please. This so-called "pro-lifer" thinks nothing of running to the abortion clinic every time she or her daughter needs to, but she doesn't want anyone else to have the same right? What a hypocrite.
I was standing across the street praying the rosary. It's not like we were in their face or anything. However, I'd be scared too if harsh people were dragging me into the facility like I was the President or something.
I doubt it. During an abortion, I doubt they're thinking about how relieving this is. They're probably thinking about how frightening this is and still going back and forth with whether or not they want to do it.
It's BECAUSE she understands the sleepless nights and the unbearable pain of seeing her unborn babies on every child's face that she reaches out to these girls and begs them not to make the same mistakes she did. She told us she'd give anything to have her babies back. Many other post-abortive women have told me the same thing. It's because they care that they're trying to look beyond the here and now and reflecting on the rest of their lives.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
It's not like we were in their face or anything. However, I'd be scared too if harsh people were dragging me into the facility like I was the President or something.
Unfortunately, there is a serious history of violence in this country originating from within the pro-life movement and being directed at the doctors, nurses and patients at these clinics. MOST pro-life people aren't violent, of course, but enough of them have been to make it a reasonable precaution to shield and protect the women who come to these clinics.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Understandable...however, it does add to the scariness a great deal for the women that we don't cause.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
I think you ARE causing this fear, or at the very least taking advantage of it as a weapon of intimidation. I might would feel differently if these protests were directed at the government-funded organizations that provide the abortion procedure, but by your own admission the intended targets here are the individual women who come to these organzations for help. That kind of personal attack undermines the legitimacy of your protest, and is what leads many of us to find your tactics disturbing and abusive.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
But it's not a protest. It was a peaceful prayer vigil that took place across the street. They were prayers for the women, for the workers, the abortionists, the babies, the organization, etc. Again, we did not look at them or speak to them. Our intentions were totally and wholeheartedly good. I don't see how this is a "scare tactic." I'm sorry for them if we scare them, but maybe it's not us scaring them...maybe it's the sudden realization that they are preparing to take part in murdering their child...that is scary indeed.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
I do not say you have bad intentions.
A protest and a peaceful prayer vigil are not exclusive. Your praying for "he women, for the workers, the abortionists, the babies, the organization, etc." is a protest of abortion.
Not speaking to them or looking at them does not mean that they do not see you. It does not mean that they cannot understand what you are doing. You are appealing to a higher power to stop an abortion from happening. If that higher power is indeed on your side, as you obviously believe it to be, you are threatening them with Hell if they go through with the abortion. That is the intimidation, regardless of your wholeheartedly good intentions.
Again, these are people who, for the most part, are probably not making spur of the moment decisions. To suggest that the thought that they might be killing a baby has, I'm sure, crossed their minds before they saw you praying across the street. They have already faced that. I am sure that any religious woman has also already faced the idea that they may go to hell for their actions. You are not doing anything but adding to the stress of the incident, making an incident you claim inflicts great trauma even more traumatic.
I worked on a radio show around two years ago, an interview show. An abortion doctor who wrote a book was interviewed. She talked about how people at the clinic, trained in dealing with people in these situations, talk to people about all concerns they may have before they agree to have an abortion. If they come to the conclusion, which they often do, that the woman has not given the matter enough thought, they will refuse to give the procedure.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
OK, let's go with your ASSUMPTION on what the women are thinking...that we are threatening them with hell...again, we are looking past the here and now and doing something that neither of us would love to do because we love them and want them to have a better life in general. Because they don't arrive at the decision easily, I'm sure many women make that decision because they feel trapped. That's awesome about that abortion lady you heard, but I don't think all of them do that. Many women are told not to worry about this because it's not a baby and they'll be ok. I truly respect women like "Mary", who goes to the facility, shares her story (which I doubt, even after a year and a half of sharing it) is easy for her to say in front of strangers, in order to keep young women from making the same mistake. Don't you see? It's not easy and it's not comfortable, but we do it because WE LOVE THEM and don't want them to live with a life of regrets. Maybe some of them do fear that we're threatening them with hell...in reality, though, we're offering them mercy and love.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
First of all, I have admitted from the start that I do not know what they were thinking, so there is no need to throw the word Assumption in my face. I'm very fragile. When traveling at high speeds, words more that five letters damage me.
"but I don't think all of them do that. Many women are told not to worry about this because it's not a baby and they'll be ok."
I think that the pro-life side would like to think that. I'm sure there are some less-than ethical abortion clinics, but the majority of them do follow procedures similar to that because they care about the women.
:idk: What's that saying about good intentions? I can want to do good, but if I am not achieving that, what I have done is not good, regardless of my intentions.
There are forums for you and the pro-lifers and pro-choicers to talk. That place, however, is not in front of an abortion clinic. In my humble opinion, going political (whatever the basis of your political beliefs) on women who are in the position of having an abortion, is wrong. This includes, again in my opinion, your prayer meeting, because it is hitting them with very strong, impersonal (as in, from strangers) beliefs at a time when they are vulnerable.
Many women feel trapped probably because they are trapped, and a last minute, feel (Good/bad/whatever) change of mind brought about by outside forces does not change their fundamental situation.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
I have now scrolled down this blog reading attack after attack on respectlife without anyone coming to her defense. Do you not realize that this wonderful person was exercising her first amendment rights to protest, to practice her religion, and to practice free speech? Respectlife was praying for those that had to go through such a terrible trauma. She was not in any way from her description infringing on the rights of those going into the abortion clinic and in no way was she threatening them with hell. This is ludicrous. For God's sake she was standing there, peacefully protesting the violent murder and inhumane actions that were taking place within the abortion clinic. Would you attack someone who had protested against the Nazi's when they dragged Jews out of their homes and sent them off to the gas chambers? At least those innocent Jews had the opportunity to survive, although their chances were slim. The only chance those innocent unborn children have to survive murder is for respectlife to pray that the mother's may realize the faults in their actions and realize the countless other options they have to save an innocent child's life.
Government has no other end, but the preservation of property. - John Locke
Well, I think there's one major difference between the Nazi death camps and Abortion clinics. The Nazis were killing and torturing PEOPLE. Human beings, with minds, friends and loved ones, aspirations and feelings. At abortion clinics, what is being 'killed' cannot feel, physically or emotionally, it has no mind, no friends nor the potential for friends, no aspirations or dreams. You may consider that a person. I, and, I can only assume, the other people who have disagreed with respectlife, do not.
Secondly, no one has denied that she has the right to do what she did.
Thirdly, I do not know if it is her intent to threaten these women with hell. However, I do think that, implicit in her actions, that threat is being made.
"The only chance those innocent unborn children have to survive murder is for respectlife to pray that the mother's may realize the faults in their actions and realize the countless other options they have to save an innocent child's life."
:rofl: I can't help it. I'm horrible, I know. Maybe their only hope is to give these women financial support. Maybe it is to improve their home life in other ways. Maybe it is to fix health problems that make the pregnancy dangerous. Maybe it is to improve the abortion system in this nation so that people don't think that putting children into it will give them a horrible life. Perhaps the way to have prevented this abortion from happening would have been to give this person an honest sex education.
But, if the only way that these abortions can be prevented is through people's pleas to god, then it seems that there is, indeed only a slim chance, if any.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
in this specific sentence, "Maybe it is to improve the abortion system in this nation..."
you meant to say adoption
other than that, yeah you're heartless, glad that you know it ;)
ps thanks for the detailed reply to the comment above, did not have the intelligence neither the patience to go through with it, so... :yay:
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." A Muslim Girl's Plight
Yeah... adoption system. I wish they weren't both 'a' words. My brain just can't handle it.
You're welcome.
We need a smugger smiley. I am being forced to express some sort of emotion without resorting to the use of a cheap, fill-in. This is unacceptable. :angry:
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
it could handle all that detailed reasoning and conclusions that were then reached...but the a's really...yeah....
I edit way too much because my brain almost never gets the words right on the first ten maybe twenty tries..
now..you could come back with that yet to be made smugger smiley
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." A Muslim Girl's Plight
Brain melting. Can't think of witty, slightly rude response. DAMN YOU FINALS!!!!!!!!!!!
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
English is not my first language :phbt:
and the only way that could be one-upped is if you also learned another language before you learned English.
haha, finals- I do know what you are going through, been there-experienced that
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." A Muslim Girl's Plight
mmm. I'm linguistically inept. :`(
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Sometimes I just find smileys on google and use html tags to insert an image. Usually, though, that's too much work. ;-)
"What a crazy random happenstance!"
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Read my Blog!
That's to high tech for me. :`(
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Be careful lest your naivete turn you into a well meaning dupe. And to say that this was "not a protest" is complete bullshit. You gathered together and made a public statement about a political policy with which you disagree. You said yourself above that some of your fellows actively engaged these women on a in order to convince them to change their minds. Heck, you even had a speaker who stood up and gave a speech about "abortion lies." That sounds like a protest to me. And no, its not "the sudden realization that they are preparing to take part in murdering their child" that scares these poor women, and I doubt very seriously if you really believe that. I would suggest that what scares these women is A) the mean-spirited judgment of people like you who attack them at a vulnerable moment by calling them names like "murderer," and B) the fact that there is a very real danger of violence against them from religiously fanatical pro-lifers who might BE very different than you, but who LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Well, when I envision protest, I imagine a bunch of angry people holding signs; being loud, rude, and profane; and chanting corny chants. We weren't...my group was across the street quietly praying.
There's this thing called reality and it's not always fun, but there's no changing it, no matter who says or doesn't say. These women ARE murderers. However, at the facility that morning, we're not standing there calling murderer. There is a time and a place for everything. We're there offering love, mercy and help for them, instead of giving them a quick fix and sending them off on their own again like the abortionists are doing.
That I have no control over. I can't help the actions of others and their actions have been HORRIBLE and WRONG.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
...and I think that YOU certainly get "angry" whenever the subject is discussed. I find it unlikely that at one of these protests, your consistent anger over the topic suddenly disappears. And, not all protests use signs. The point of a protest is to be seen expressing a contrary point-of-view. By any reasonable definition, your actions constitute a protest. I also think that your perception of protests as "being loud, rude, and profane" is again, somewhat naive. Quiet, non-violent protests are very common in this country. As for rudeness, sitting around in holier-than-thou judgement during one of the most vulnerable moments of a woman's life certainly seems to fit the bill of "rudeness" to me.
The fundamental flaw in these protests is that they do NOTHING to advance your cause. They don't address the fundamental legality of abortion in ANY way. If your goal was REALLY to limit the number of abortions performed in this country each year, then your efforts would be better spent in pursuit of programs that attack the underlying causes of abortion. If you REALLY want to see fewer abortions, you should be fighting poverty and promoting comprehensive sex-education, rather than trying to intimidate vulnerable women who are simply exercising their fundamental right to choose.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I don't feel anything after being up at 5 AM : P In all reality, though...my anger is directed towards those who can make a difference and help these women and don't. My frustration is with the people who know that the unborn child is a baby and lie to the women. My frustration is with those who view the women as nothing more than a way to make money. My frustration is with those who lead naive and vulnerable women to making choices they will regret for a lifetime. My frustration is with our society that says it's ok to have sex and not suffer the "consequences". THAT is where my frustration lies. For the scared, vulnerable women walking into the abortion facility because they feel as if they have no other way out...they have my sympathy, my pity, and my prayers. I just want to help them. I don't judge them or hate them or condemn them to Hell. I simply love them and hope that my prayers, my actions, my sacrifices make a difference and help them and their children have better futures.
By that definition, then yes, it was a protest. And obviously, they DO have an effect because four women decided not to have abortions that morning.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
I would suggest that your definition of "baby" is probably rather imprecise in any objective, medical sense. I would also suggest that the "lies" that get you so worked up are largely an invention of your own mind. Despite what many pro-lifers claim, groups like Planned Parenthood do a great deal of education with women to provide them with information about alternatives to abortion. But most of all I would suggest that what really bothers you is that when given a choice, the simple fact is that not everyone comes to the same conclusion as you regarding what they "SHOULD" decide. And as for your "sympathy and pity," I'm not buying it. You've used the term "murderer" to refer to these women just a few too many times to make this claim sound believable.
My frustration is with those who lead naive and vulnerable women to making choices they will regret for a lifetime.
Just a point of fact...MOST women do not regret having an abortion. In fact, less than 30% of women report feelings of regret after having the procedure.
By that definition, then yes, it was a protest. And obviously, they DO have an effect because four women decided not to have abortions that morning.
I would also suggest that the effects of these protests are negative, and that if you spent HALF as much time fighting the real social problems that lead women to feel that they need to have an abortion, you could probably have convinced a LOT more than four women to pursue other options.
I think you need to get used to the idea that you live in a FREE COUNTRY. The best you can hope for in your pursuit to stop aboriton is to find ways to really help women to make a different choice, because these women DO have a right to choose, and that isn't going away.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Check out my blog post "why NOT a baby?"
Yeah, that's factual...helping 13yos break the law is really demonstrating PP love for these women. *rolls eyes*
That's fine, because you don't have to buy it. All you know about me is how I debate and that's it, so I will blame your lack of judgment on your lack of understanding of me.
Oh, that's infallible...besides, reporting and feeling are two different things...weren't you the one who told me that sometimes people lie to themselves about how they feel, or something along those lines?
You're wrong on that one...in a country truly free, all would be free to live.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Yeah, that's factual...helping 13yos break the law is really demonstrating PP love for these women.
You know, your condescending sarcasm in many of your responses really doesn't win people over to your side. Resorting to using sarcasm as an argument usually demonstrates an inability to form an efficient and substantial counter argument.
I'm interested in how Planned Parenthood is helping 13-year-old girls to break the law? Explain please?
"What a crazy random happenstance!"
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Read my Blog!
I respond to people the way I'm being treated. If the only way to debate with Blackout is through condescending sarcasm (as trying to be nice hasn't worked), then that's what I'm doing.
Here, check out this link:
http://nvs.all.org/sendstudio/link.php?M=92555&N=600&L=2208&F=H
The way of getting the video was totally unethical, but apparently effective. Children under 14 cannot have sex with those over 21 in the state of Indiana under IC 35-42-4-3. It's a felony. 13yo girls are not generally responsible people and this woman had a duty to contact CPS and she shirked that duty. Not only did she fail to contact CPS, but she was giving her ways to get out of the mess. Sure, it makes the girl happy now...but it wasn't legal nor was it responsible of that woman.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
...by one's attitudue. I give you a hard time because more often than not, your opinions are poorly informed and more than once have been proved to be based on factually incorrect and even deliberately fraudlent sources. I would likewise suggest that your source is far from objective. Here is a more neutral article that indicates that there may very well be more to this story. I would suggest that the completely one-sided treatment of this story by your source is far more indicative of a "lie" than any of the things that you allege regarding groups like Planned Parenthood. It is difficult for me to take your accusations seriously, when you (once again) have relied on a source that is so blatantly biased. Your inability to support your arguments through neutral sources is a serious obstacle to your credibility.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I don't see anything in this article that wasn't seen in the movie, except that they state that there are breaks between things here and ther. If it makes you feel any better, I realized that all by myself. o.O However, I think the movie was chopped so that we didn't have to spend forever listening to irrelevant information. I gave that link because it actually produced the video, which says a lot of things in itself. Thus, whereas my source was biased, it said the same stuff that your "unbiased" source said and thus, I don't see the problem here.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
So, I will respond to you, below.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Excellent job reciting the extremist left-wing liberal propaganda that atheists and enemies of God have spread.
Government has no other end, but the preservation of property. - John Locke
I see what you did there...
I am not the Messiah... Honestly!
Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
He is! He is the Messiah!
Now, fuck off!
How shall we fuck off, O Lord?
Great job spreading the lies that neo-conservative, religious fundamentalist enemies of reason create.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
and I don't wanna have to say much on Obama either BUT he is not pro-abortion.
NO ONE in their right mind would be, but is letting people have CHOICE so hard?
on a lighter note the blog is quite nicely written
"I'm more like a fool for soul and passion....
I watch crash, and realize that we all survivors
no religion or race, whatever describe us." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/012450-old-and-gold-times-change-my-immigran...
Well, there are a few things to consider, though...(1) Is it her choice to make? If she's pregnant and wanting to have an abortion, then that means that she had sex without being open to life. However, as pregnancy is a natural result of sex, she should have been prepared to be open to life, should the situation present itself. Now that she does have a life within her, how can she deny her baby their God-given right to life? (2) Is her choice informed? Many women are told that it's just a blob of tissue, it won't have any lasting results, it'll all be over in a few minutes, abortion's their only option, the pro-life people just want to murder them, etc. Every single one of those is a lie. How many women really know that abortion is NOT the only way out? How many women are told that it'll all be ok after this, only to find out that the abortion committed them to a life long agony? It's not fair for them. Thus, we are fighting both for women to have the right to INFORMED choices and for babies to have the right to something the rest of us have succeeded in acquiring: life.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
forgive me for not wanting to prolong this discussion, when I was blogging on prou last year, I learned that there are a few things that one should choose to leave alone if they don't want to fry their brain, and one of them is abortion. In any case, you completely ignore the fact that some of the women might not be believers of the faith that you follow and also, she might have had sex with contraception.
There are also other ways to inform women than bombarding them with this while they are not ready for it and going through a really difficult time actually getting inside a clinic. I think you are also unaware of the fact that most women don't reach this abortion decision easily, most if not all have looked upon almost every alternate avenue.
"I'm more like a fool for soul and passion....
I watch crash, and realize that we all survivors
no religion or race, whatever describe us." -Forever Begins, Common
http://www.progressiveu.org/012450-old-and-gold-times-change-my-immigran...
Haha, ok, I won't argue this with you, then. Like I said in my essay, I want to dedicate my life to the pro-life movement, so it's an important issue for me. I will say that I don't ignore those things and I do believe that women feel like it's their only option. I guess we'll agree to disagree. ; )
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
I want to recommend some authors and a couple of books for you to read
if it is all right with you?
I won't hold you to reading any of them and they are not even on abortion but I just want to suggest...
because I read your bio and it says you're a bookworm and so am I.
"The heart's memory eliminates the bad and magnifies the good."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Love in the Time of Cholera
http://www.progressiveu.org/012450-old-and-gold-times-change-my-immigran...
Sure! I love reading and always appreciate new books!
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
I'm gonna have to agree with trailerpark about your presence there.
While I am sure that people exist who compulsively, or at least thoughtlessly, use abortion as a form of birth control, they are a tiny minority. These are women who have made the decision, based on things you do not truly understand (i can almost 100% assure you), that having an abortion is the best thing they can do. This is not the kind of decision most people come to easily or lightly.
You might think that praying across the street isn't being in their face. What you are really doing, whatever you think, is intimidating them. You are, indirectly, threatening them with Hell for the choice they made, a choice that most people cannot truly understand.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
"The heart's memory eliminates the bad and magnifies the good."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Love in the Time of Cholera
http://www.progressiveu.org/012450-old-and-gold-times-change-my-immigran...
I'm an addict. :(
Glad to see you're back.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
in the pain that is life
"The heart's memory eliminates the bad and magnifies the good."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Love in the Time of Cholera
http://www.progressiveu.org/012450-old-and-gold-times-change-my-immigran...
so it is. :idk:
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
I agree that it's not an easy decision for women to make. I never said it was. However, I do think that most women have an abortion because they feel it's the only way to solve their problems. However, there ARE other ways out and sometimes, when you're scared, you need someone else to smile and tell you that there are other ways out. Those few words can give a girl the confidence she needs not to have the abortion.
Maybe they wouldn't be so intimidated if the abortion facility workers weren't shuffling them in as if we were going to pull a gun. Us standing across the street murmuring unintelligible words (to them) is a lot less scary than how the workers made it out to be.
Finally, people seem to think that the pro-lifers don't care about the women. As a teenage girl, I can tell you that women are a big part of my picture. I've had conversations to friends about "what if it happened to me?" and I've wondered what I'd do if I was ever violated. Just thinking about it's scary and I really, really feel for the poor girls who have to make these decisions. However, I personally know some women who have had abortions, and they say that they'd give anything to go back and time and have a do-over. Thus, because I care about the women, I'm praying for them not to make decisions that they will likely regret for the rest of their lives, especially for those who just need someone to smile and tell them that there's another way out.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Hell is more intimidating than guns. And that is what you are, basically, threatening them with, without even knowing the circumstances. I don't accuse you of having this intention, merely this effect.
You, I take it, believe in the power of prayer. Why, then, do you have to do it across the street from them?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
We didn't say anything to them. We didn't meet eye to eye. We had every fundamental right to be standing across the street. We were even told before hand not to say anything or look at anyone in the eye.
I think part of the reason was to make an effect on us. It was a large group of teenagers. Teenagers tend to be sucked into the whole idea that it's all ok and there's nothing wrong with abortion, etc. I believe that those who put the retreat together, part of their idea was to make an effect on us. As you can see from my essay, it made a profound effect on me. After having seen for myself that the facilities and the women are real, it makes abortion real to me and you can be a lot more committed to something if you know it's real. Also, the fact that we saved four babies from death and four women from hell on earth gives me hope...hope that I can make a difference and that nothing is impossible with God. THAT'S why we got up at 5 and stood across the street that morning.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
just because you had that fundamental right and you used it, doesn't make it any less of a hell....
I get that you guys were experiencing something probably very momentous and pivotal or other such things, it was all that for you---but did you put yourself in the shoes of those women and look at yourself through their eyes,
regardless of the fact that you had the best of intentions, sometimes they are easily misplaced and misconstrued.
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." Akhri Alvida--Last Goodbye<
What the women are going through IS hell...hell on earth. Just because they have a fundamental right to "do what they want with their own bodies" doesn't make it right nor does it make it a fun experience. They're not there to have fun. However, by praying for them and making the situation real to us where we will continue to pray for them, we are offering peace of heart and mind for those who are struggling. Dad has this saying..."those who love you make you cry." Because we love the women, we're doing something uncomfortable for both of us for their (and ours, even!) well-being. It's a hard decision, but if we really love them, we'll make it correctly and look past just the now.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
have been FUN at all BUT raped/sexually assaulted/molested women or those who are forced to have sex in abusive or cruel relationships...aren't these women who should have the CHOICE to do what they want with the embryo/cells in their body that might change their life for the worse....
(I know you''ll mention that they don't know if it is for the worse BUT no one knows anything other than the All-Knowing and since HE is not sharing information...then we all are left to fend for ourselves in the physical world)
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." I love this<
I never even insinuated that it would be. That's one of the greatest violations a woman could endure.
No, they shouldn't...they are serious victims in a serious crime. However, if someone commits a crime, we do not punish the criminal's child nor do we punish the victim's child. In this case, you are punishing both because they are both the same person and the punishment is capital punishment: death.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
"However, by praying for them and making the situation real to us where we will continue to pray for them"
I think that showing up and demonstrating across the street from them to make the situation real for you is putting yourselves and your convictions above the women who you are trying to "save".
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
what else to say and was comtemplating defeat because it's *almost useless since respectlife is bringing/or is making her point through religion (which is completely okay) and I am trying to avoid talking about religion.
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." Allama Iqbal...An Ode to the Cup Bearer<
No, there isn't anything wrong with making this point through religion. However, I'm not...I'm stating that women have regretted their abortion decisions and thus, even though it's not comfortable and fun, we're trying to help other women find other options so that they don't make the same mistakes.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
The regret of some can be the salvation of others.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
I really thought that the basis of everything you were doing was through religion
how stupid of me :(
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." Allama Iqbal...An Ode to the Cup Bearer<
Well, my faith plays a strong part in my viewpoints and decisions. I just don't want you thinking that this is only a religious kick. ; )
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
No, because, in effect, our presence will save more women. And again, we go there to help the women, even if it is uncomfortable, because LOVE isn't always COMFORTABLE.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Save them from WHAT? You don't know what's going on in their lives. I don't know. NOBODY knows. If your god is indeed out there, then he will know. Why not let him deal with it?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Save them from the effects of abortion...emotional, physical, spiritual, etc.
Because God helps those who help themselves. Those who commit the evils aren't backing off, so why should those who believe in goodness not act? By not acting, we are, in a sense, participating in the evil. Thus, we have an obligation to fight the evil of the world.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
(I know you''ll mention that they don't know if it is for the worse BUT no one knows anything other than the All-Knowing and since HE is not sharing information...then we all are left to fend for ourselves in the physical world)"
and EVIL is a relative term
"A person doesn't die when he should but when he can."
- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
"close your eyes, clear your heart..." Allama Iqbal...An Ode to the Cup Bearer<
As for the emotional and physical, it has been said and shown many times that most of the time, these do not occur. It has been said and shown that abortion clinics do talk to women about these potential effects. Seeing as you have previously ignored these statements, I shall not make them again.
As for spiritual side-effects, I think that religious would be a more adequate word for what you describe, but I think that should be between a woman and their respective deity.
"Because God helps those who help themselves."
You praying is those women helping themselves, it is you asking god to help them, those women are helping themselves by doing something, even if you don't agree with it, about their situation.
I read somewhere, I don't know where it was or who said it, a quote that seems relevant. It was something like 'two hands working together do more than one thousand clasped in prayer.'
If you really think abortion is evil, get up and actually do something about it. If god helps those who help themselves, stop bugging him and start acting.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
I never said you don't have the right to do what you did. You do.
In your initial blog, you boasted that you saved some women from having abortions. Obviously then, it was clear enough to the women what you were doing. You are saying that abortion is wrong in the eyes of your god. That is threatening them with the punishment of your god, which is an eternity of suffering, if they go through with the procedure. That is intimidation. You don't need to have spoken to them. You don't need to have looked them in the eye.
I'm sure there are ways to impress on you that having an abortion is wrong that do not involve bothering people who are very likely going through one of the most difficult and lowest points of their lives.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
WE didn't save them...God saved them. I believe that our prayers that morning had an effect on their decision. However, since we were across the (fairly busy) street, I doubt they even heard what we were saying. Thus, they had no way of knowing what was going on in our minds. Thus, any decisions and conclusions they made was of their own accord. The only person who really spoke to them was "Mary," and she was basically just sharing her story and her regrets. That's not intimidation...that's love. Sometimes, love IS "bothering" people at one of the most difficult and lowest points of their lives and trying to save them from turning to an even lower point.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
If god saved them, he didn't need your demonstration to do so.
A good portion of them knew what you were doing. They didn't need to hear you.
Many people regret decisions to have abortions. Many do not. I have heard testimony from both, and it is a valuable thing to hear, but not right at the door to the abortion clinic.
Sometimes love is accepting that you don't know what's best for other people.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
That's 100% true. However, Our Lady told the Fatima children that many people go to Hell because they don't have people to pray for them. Wouldn't it make sense that many people make big mistakes in their lives because they don't have anyone to pray for them?
But sometimes it's what the women NEED...a little tap in the opposite direction.
Also, for those who don't regret their decisions...I've heard testimonies of those, as well. However, some women take longer than others to admit that it bugged them and others just don't regret it at all. For those who don't regret it at all, I doubt a testimony of how abortion did hurt women is going to scare them spitless.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
"Wouldn't it make sense that many people make big mistakes in their lives because they don't have anyone to pray for them?"
No. In my point of view, I think you know why.
In a theistic point of view, you are saying that god is punishing OTHER PEOPLE for the failures of his followers. That don't make much sense to me.
"But sometimes it's what the women NEED...a little tap in the opposite direction."
And sometimes what they need is a little peace. Or maybe they need financial security, or better health. Do you give them that?
"For those who don't regret it at all, I doubt a testimony of how abortion did hurt women is going to scare them spitless."
A doubtlessly small number of people...
The reason the testimony of someone whose regret outweighed any benefit might scare people is because they haven't gone through it yet. They don't know how they will feel. Last minute negative suggestions, however, probably don't help.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
No...God gives people graces and He gives even more graces if we ask for them. Sometimes, people don't know to ask for graces and if others pray for them and pray that God can bestow those graces on them, they can sometimes find the strength to overcome temptations and make mistakes in their lives.
Abortion isn't going to give them peace. o.O It's just a band-aid on a large wound...yeah, it helps for the moment, but what about in a few years? Yes, we do...that's why we have pregnancy crisis centers...these places help women financially, health wise, emotionally, etc.
It adds to the uncertainty. Like I've previously said, though, some women are internally begging for a reason to leave.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
That's the point you're not getting. You shouldn't be focused so much on the women once they become pregnant... if you really wanted to stop abortion, you'd be concentrating your efforts on helping women prevent pregnancy in the first place, whether it be through education, alleviating the pains of poverty, etc. The majority of women who go get an abortion are those who come from very low income families, who don't have a comprehensive sex education background, etc.
Fix the cause, not the result.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
Actually, I have two:
1) What is your position on comprehensive sex education vs. abstinence only education?
2) What is your position (as a catholic member of the pro-life movement) on the use of condoms to prevent pregnancy?
Just curious,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
As in my own personal opinion?
1) Abstinence only. I believe that the sex-eds in our country teach that it's ok to have sex, as long as you're "protected." I don't believe that these programs teach sex in the light of what it should be. It gives the children (in a sense), the opportunity to decide for themselves whether or not they are "ready." As we can all guess, people think they're ready for that stuff long before they are ready. I think that if the schools stressed abstinence, it would have a profound effect. Many reasons why they refuse to try abstinence is because they say it won't work and kids have sex anyway. Ye of little faith! How cruelly they discredit us! Give us the challenge and we might just rise to it! Make abstinence the new "cool" and many will follow. It's not impossible.
2) As a Catholic and as a pro-life woman, I do not approve of the use of condemns. The Church prohibits the use of artificial contraceptive and I agree with the logic: sex is for two reasons: bonding and reproducing. Part of why you should have sex with only one person is because the bonding is like a piece of tape...you stick it to something and it's really strong. But if you pull it off and stick it to something else, it loses some of its strength. This continues the more you apply the tape. Also, by wearing a condemn, you say "I give you my all...EXCEPT." Finally, sex is to reproduce. By wearing a condemn, that means you're having sex without the openness to reproduction. As we were called to "multiply", this is the wrong attitude to take while having sex.
So I hope that adequately describes part of why I personally believe in the importance of abstinence and openness to life when you do have sex.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
In other words, your religious beliefs lead you to consider all aboritons as murder, but prevent you from supporting the two most effective means available to limit the number of abortions that actually happen in this country each year. Your responses demonstrate that stopping abortion really ISN'T the motivating factor behind your point-of-view. Your primary motivation is to prosyletize your religion, not to save lives.
Typical.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
(1) Sex ed doesn't limit abortion. Again, if they used abstinence instead, I think we'd see a lower rate of abortion over a decent length of time. The problem is, though, is that people won't even give it a chance.
(2) Artificial contraceptives can have the same effect as abortion. It's possible for a woman to get pregnant while using birth control and it's also possible that the chemicals of the birth control can lead to a miscarriage. Since the birth control was used deliberately to prevent and stop life in the womb, birth control turns into an abortion. Also, doing away with condemns through that philosophy would instance lower abortion rates because if more people thought like that, they would still be open to life even when the woman was pregnant and thus we'd see a lower rate of abortions.
Finally, my primary motive, whatever it may be, is known to ME, and ME alone unless I share it. At that point, you have no way of knowing what my thoughts are and thus have no right to tell me what my primary motive is.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
I will reply to you, below.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
That's a mighty week deity who needs to rely on such inconsistent people do help show others the way. (I'm referring to humanity on the whole.)
Abortion has given many women peace. Sometimes it has not; sometimes it has made it worse. But that doesn't invalidate the peace it does bring.
The pregnancy crisis centers that 'bear false witness' by pretending to be abortion clinics and giving out false and exaggerated information? Can these clinics change a person's financial situation. Pregnancy is expensive in many ways, both in direct costs and potential loss of wages. Can these centers undo that? Can they make a dangerous pregnancy less dangerous?
So, some women are begging to be left alone. Why not respect their wishes? Why not help give people a better reason to leave than a spur of the moment infusion of good feeling or whatnot?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
I don't see anything in this article that wasn't seen in the movie, except that they state that there are breaks between things here and ther. If it makes you feel any better, I realized that all by myself. o.O However, I think the movie was chopped so that we didn't have to spend forever listening to irrelevant information. I gave that link because it actually produced the video, which says a lot of things in itself. Thus, whereas my source was biased, it said the same stuff that your "unbiased" source said and thus, I don't see the problem here.
A credible journalist would make the "long version" available for those who wanted to see it. Why? Becuase editing footage out of a "sting" automatically raises the spectre of "what was removed?" Since the video was created by a hostile source, this becomes even more relevant due to the obvious bias, which provides an easy to pinpoint motivation to be less that truthful. It is also noteable that your source provides statements against Planned Parenthood, but does not also provide Planned Parenthood's statement in response to the charges. The ultimate test on this is simple...if the evidence obtained by this video is credible, then the next thing we should see is a police report, followed by an arrest and finally the conviction of the woman who you allege broke the law. If the truth of this situation is even CLOSE to what your source claims, then it should be an open-and-shut case. Somehow, I doubt that will happen.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
One of the better comments I saw in response to the news article (though there were a few good ones) states:
if the evidence obtained by this video is credible
I'm just going to add that if the "evidence" in this video was credible, it shouldn't have been edited. Not only were pieces cut out of the video, a lot of things were also added--like background music and a map. Who knows what else was doctored? Maybe the nurse actually did do what the video claims, and if she did, she should be held accountable (though I can understand where she was coming from). But I have to question the credibility of "evidence" that has purposely been doctored before being presented.
"What a crazy random happenstance!"
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Read my Blog!
Oh, so now we're overruling the parental rights...why doesn't a parent have the right to know what's going on in their children's lives? The nurse was not only aiding a felon by aiding the girl, but she was assisting her in being deceitful to her parents in a HUGE way.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Lets not forget that the "girl" in this story is actually a 20-year-old pro-life activist who was posing as an underage girl and acting out a script designed to entrap the worker in the video. But again, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Has your source turned the full video over to the authorities? Have charges been filed? Is there any independant verification of her accusations? Have YOU seen what was edited out of these tapes? It seems to me that you are all too ready to accept the claims of a source that is plainly biased, based on the presentation of the video and the incredibly one-sided treatment of the attached story. I think you are letting your own bias cloud you to the fact that the evidence here is VERY questionable.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Hopefully we will (although knowing the abortion rights people in this country...they'll probably make it to where the charges are forced to be dropped because it's not fair or something like that). And maybe if you write them and ask them for the long version, they'll send it to you. o.O
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Charges aren't dropped in this country just because someone thinks that the laws aren't "fair." The law is usually pretty plain in most cases. If these actions constituted a felony in the law, and if the person in the tapes actually did what you accused them of doing, then a conviction should be very easy to achieve. What you said sounds like a childish excuse to avoid having to back up your accusations with substance. Again...typical.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I'm curious if charges would actually hold up. Because the girl was not actually a minor.
Like... if an undercover police officer poses as a minor, buys alcohol at a convenience store, and isn't carded, I don't think any legal action can be taken because selling to a minor didn't actually occur. I could be wrong though.
I can see the nurse being fired because she didn't follow the policies and procedures of her employer but, technically, she didn't break the law in this particular situation.
"What a crazy random happenstance!"
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Read my Blog!
(1) Sex ed doesn't limit abortion. Again, if they used abstinence instead, I think we'd see a lower rate of abortion over a decent length of time. The problem is, though, is that people won't even give it a chance.
You know, this really isn't rocket science. The research overwhelmingly indicates that abstinence only education less effective in stopping unwanted pregancies than complrehensive sex education. Fewer unwanted pregnancies lead to fewer abortions. Its a simple, directly and easily demonstrable causal relationship. AND, your position is a plain indicator that you are willing to see MORE abortions take place than you are to actually educated children in the skills they need to AVOID unwanted pregnancies. What was it you said about wanting people to be able to make informed choices? Your position seems pretty hypocritical to me.
(2) Artificial contraceptives can have the same effect as abortion. It's possible for a woman to get pregnant while using birth control and it's also possible that the chemicals of the birth control can lead to a miscarriage. Since the birth control was used deliberately to prevent and stop life in the womb, birth control turns into an abortion. Also, doing away with condemns through that philosophy would instance lower abortion rates because if more people thought like that, they would still be open to life even when the woman was pregnant and thus we'd see a lower rate of abortions.
What utter bullshit. People who have sex and use condoms get pregnant FAR less often than people who have sex and use no protection at all. It would be idiotic to suggest othewise. This likewise demonstrates the fact that your religious ideology is informing your position far more than any concern for the "lives" that you claim that you want to save. This kind of argument shows conclusively that your motivations are anything BUT pure.
Finally, my primary motive, whatever it may be, is known to ME, and ME alone unless I share it. At that point, you have no way of knowing what my thoughts are and thus have no right to tell me what my primary motive is.
Well, no offense, but you really aren't that complex. Your motivations are really quite easy to discern based on the positions that you espouse, and the "rationales" (lol) that you offer in support of them.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.