Ok, ok don't get all mad. I don't believe that title up there. That's just what my teacher tried telling me today. He's a conservative and usually he's very good at seeing both sides although he of course has his opinions.
But today he said something I just couldn't understand. He honestly believes that while conservatives may get dissed when speaking at liberal colleges, liberals at conservative colleges would never ever(!) have that problem.
Anyone else think that's untrue? I mean really, even if you are more conservative you know that it's just what happens. It may not be right but both sides do it. If a liberal went into a Christain College in the heart of Texas (generally seen as conservative), and talked about gay rights, they would be thrown out! In some situations like that I would even be worried about their safety after talking about such an emotionally charges issue. Now granted liberals would probably boo a conservative talking about how justified the war is but I'm say there are two sides to this.
Now I need your help. I told him my feelings and an example but he still is frozen in his old ways. Does anyone have a good example of a liberal speaking at a conservative college that was booed off stage? I would really appreciate it.
Also tell me if I'm just way off base or if what I'm saying is justified. I believe it is, but I can not believe he would stay true to that idea.
Links to stories in which a liberal was booed during a commencement address at a conservative college.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110005121
http://www.americanheritage.com/blog/200610_16_575.shtml
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -Huxley
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." -Gandhi
Here is another.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0520-12.htm
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -Huxley
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." -Gandhi
Thanks sooo much! I'm going to print these out and give them to him next class.
<3Rachael
Here is another example for you. There is a man named David Horowitz who has made it his mission in life to harass liberal professors and/or scare them into hiding. He started a group called Students for Academic Freedom, which, among other things, pays students to keep tabs on professors and report any that seem liberal. Here's a summary:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=David_Horowitz_(ex-Marxist)
that's a really good one! Thanks a lot for helping me out.
<3Rachael
The Academic Bill of Rights is meant to keep professors from abusing their positions. It does not pay students.
http://studentsforacademicfreedom.org/
Yea I do believe you are right. The person who formed the orginization may not be the best individual but from the website the previous person provided the student for academic freedom seems like a pretty innocent group. But if the previous commenter has a good example of the group being too harsh, it would be helpful to hear. But the original article I recieved was kind of biased sounding.
<3Rachael
I think a good arguement at this point would be that many people that are percieved as Conservatives sometimes end up Liberal. Supreme Court would be the best example of this kind of arguement, Sandra day O'Connor, or Nixon's additions to the court, though he thought he would have one of the most Conservative courts he ended up having the most Liberal. I'm a Liberal and most of the people in my government class are Conservatives and I always get picked on because my views are different, most students undermine my opinion by saying, "Oh, nevermind, you don't know anything about that, you're a Liberal." So unless your teacher was being sarcastic ( which may be a good possibility ) his statement was unjust. There's just as critical a view from the other side.
Yea I heard it can be brutal being the only liberal in a conservative school. Most of my friends are extremely conservative so I kind almost relate. But yes you are right, both sides are critical of the other. <3Rachael
I read a while back about Fox trying to put on some Conservative version of the Daily Show. I never watched it, but I could remember from the article about some really mean things the conservatives were saying on it. I wonder if it is still on? I couldn't even find the name anywhere.
really? I've never heard of that. It would have been sort of interesting to see. I'm sure they said some harsh things once they had their own news show.
<3Rachael
The reason it was canceled was that the majority of (conservative) viewers found the meanness to be unfunny. The Daily Show is acerbic, to be sure, but not outright insulting, which is what the Fox Show was. It was a case of a few vocal representatives of a group behaving in a way that ought to be embarrassing to the whole group, which happens in all groups, no matter how they identify.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Ann Coulter.
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi
percivale
"We shall party like the Greeks of old! [lowers voice] You know the ones I mean." ~ Hedonism Bot
Wait...from what I can tell Ann is a conservative. Good evidence for liberals heckeling conservatives but I was kind of looking for the other side. Thanks for the info though
<3Rachael
I was speaking more of Mrs. Coulter as an example of a "mean" conservative.
perci
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Arthur: Which is the greatest quality of knighthood?
Merlin: Truth. That's it. Yes. It must be truth, above all. When a man lies, he murders some part of the world.
(From John Boorman's Excalibur)
ooh gotcha. That makes sense, she is pretty mean. thanks!<3Rachael
For example the MinuteMen at Columbia University. Also David Horowitz and Ann Coulter both had food thrown at them while speaking at liberal campuses. However when super-liberal Ward Churchill spoke at my conservative UW-Whitewater campus no one threw pies or brocolli or tomatoes, no one stormed the stage and started shoving people and screaming like at Columbia. All the students sat quietly and listened, and then when the time came raised their hands and respectfully asked their questions of the nut ball. To say 'never' or 'always' is to ask for criticism, but in general conservatives are much more polite to speakers who represent their ideological adversaries than liberals are.
BTW your example about Christian universities is very, very wrong. For example the Catholic Church has been one of the most outspoken adversaries of the perversity advocates, however Notre Dame allows a GLBTXYZPDQPBRMEASAP club and even allows them to celebrate 'Pride Week'. Perhaps you could find a few small schools down south that fit your description, but mostly Christian universities are more tolerant than secular universities of the liberal humanistic sway.
First, lets remember the title of the blog...
"Liberals are mean to Conservatives! But Conservatives are never mean to Liberals"
...and then lets look at your comment...
"For example the Catholic Church has been one of the most outspoken adversaries of the perversity advocates..."
How can you expect for us to take your comments about the politeness of conservatives seriously when you include this kind of insult in your response?
Sometimes I think that the hypocrisy is so deeply ingrained into the minds of conservatives (and as your case demonstrates, religious conservatives), that they don't even realize how utterly hateful they act sometimes.
percivale
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Arthur: Which is the greatest quality of knighthood?
Merlin: Truth. That's it. Yes. It must be truth, above all. When a man lies, he murders some part of the world.
(From John Boorman's Excalibur)
You are talking about one word. One single word. Not even a sentence or a paragraph. One word. If the inclusion of one word that is not sensitive to your virgin ears offends you then that is your problem not mine.
Just because I am not politically correct does not make me hateful or hypocritical. You can be polite and still say exactly how you feel. I believe it is perversity so that is what I called it and you should be able to discern what is subjective and what is not in that statement. The difference is I did not go overboard and say things like "disgusting abominable butt loving sodomy making anti-American child raping perversity advocates who spit on old ladies and kick puppies". The lack of sugar coating does not make it sour.
This isn't a question of "political correctness." I'm not trying to tell you that you can't call people whatever hateful name that you wish. I am just pointing out that you can't call people perverts, and then expect anyone to take you seriously when you try to say that some liberal was "mean" to you .
You have a really nasty attitude when it comes to gay people, and you regularly engage in some really venomous rhetoric in that regard, and when you say things like this...
"Additionally, it is hateful and bigoted to scapegoat Christians simply because some perverts want benefits."
http://www.progressiveu.org/052927-spitzer-plans-to-introduce-gay-marriage-bill
...you loose the credibility that is needed for us to take you seriously in your defense of the idea that liberals are "mean" but conservatives aren't. The ironic thing is that you are a perfect example to use in coutering your own argument.
percivale
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Arthur: Which is the greatest quality of knighthood?
Merlin: Truth. That's it. Yes. It must be truth, above all. When a man lies, he murders some part of the world.
(From John Boorman's Excalibur)
Reread my post. Not once have I said that any liberals were mean to me. I said that audiences at liberal universities tend to be less polite than those at conservative ones. Sometimes I think you pull this crap intentionally. My guess is you reason that if you completely misinterpret everything I say and come back with a humongous pile of crap I will eventually get tired of shovelling it all aside and just not say anything to spare myself the trouble.
...and try to stay on topic. The point is that if YOU (an obvious conservative) can't remain civil, why should we believe your evaluation of audiences at "liberal universities?"
As for the idea that I'm misinterpreting you, I think your record speaks for itself. It is simple enough to track your posts, and read your opinions. I have done so, and I think I understand your character (such as it is) quite well.
And its interesting that you claim that you have been "shovelling it all aside," since the typical pattern of our exchages is you making some outlandinsh and inaccurate claim, followed by me citing a credible authoritative source that disputes your opinion, and then you abandoning the discussion after a parting ad hominem or two.
percivale
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Arthur: Which is the greatest quality of knighthood?
Merlin: Truth. That's it. Yes. It must be truth, above all. When a man lies, he murders some part of the world.
(From John Boorman's Excalibur)
Valid point. Although I don't exactly see it as hypocrisy, but it's borderline. I figure he/she will read this too and to kind of support your point I'd just like to say that although you can express your opinions anyway that you want, and I appreciate the respectfulness, I can sense the pent up anger in your response towards liberals. Have an opinion, express it. But liberals are people just as you are, there is no reason to be hostile for simple differences in opinion. Yes, there are mean liberals and you can dislike them, but a general hatred isn't healthy for anyone. On that note...from the rest of what I've read, you both seem to be pretty angry. Passion is good but remember we all have to live together. Wow, I kind of sound like a TV show, but it's true.
<3Rachael
Thanks for the background information. I never knew that stuff about Notre Dame, I appreciate conservatives who are kind and open-minded like that. But I also agree that saying "never" was a bit bold on my teachers part and I know his assumption is false now.
<3Rachael
I agree with you. They're both equally mean to eachother. The unwillingness of both sides to listen to eachother and acknowledge when the other person has good points really bothers me.
Many conservative authors like Ann Coulter have been physically accosted while delivering an address. One author, you have to look up his name but he wrote a book called Born Gay Hoax was actually a more conservative college when some liberals got wind of his speech and tried to rush the stage. The whole thing had to be canceled. Now are conservatives "mean" to liberals. Probably, I know I can't stand them. But it is much different, when we take on liberals it is through words, written or spoken. When liberals take on conservatives they resort to violence. When four people attended a gay pride parade and were speaking about repentance, they were physically assaulted, one of them an 80 year old grandmother, but it was the four who were looking at hate crime law being thrown at them while the ones who attempted to beat them up didn't get any charges against them. So no, I wouldn't be worried about being booed off stage, I would be worried about being killed. That is more a liberal's style.
...to your accounts of modern events. I assure you, there are no shortage of violent incidents originating from the conservative side, either. And, since you brought up the LGBT issue, a good place to start would be remembering the assassination of Harvey Milk, the first openly gay man elected to a major public office in the U.S., by "family values" conservative opponent, Dan White. Or, we could remember the time that ultra-religious conservative Eric Rudolf placed a bomb in an Atlanta gay bar. If you think that conservatives are in more danger of being targeted with violence than liberals, then you haven't really studied the issue.
I would suggest that there are a lot of crazy people in the world, and that neither side (which objectively judged) has any special claim to them.
TTFN,
Blackout
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Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
Most "crazy" people are not violent but all violent people are crazy. That being said, the pro life movement is made up mostly of conservatives. Yet in 30 plus years, there have been seven homicides at the hands of "pro-lifers." In that same time period there have been the following:
* 1,251 homicides and other killings
* 157 attempted homicides
* 28 arsons and firebombings
* 904 assaults
* 1,908 sex crimes (including 250 rapes)
* 106 kidnappings
* 420 cases of vandalism
* 290 drug crimes
* 1,616 medical crimes
All these are documented crimes, not alleged crimes like with pro-lifers. This proves that liberals are far more violent towards though that disagree with them then conservatives are to those who disagree with them. Your two incidents does not prove any correlation to conservatives and violence, mine 1251 homicides and other killings do!
..that would verify the context, motive and political demographics of the people who committed the "documented crimes" you allege?
Your two incidents does not prove any correlation to conservatives and violence
They weren't intended to...which is why I said, "there are a lot of crazy people in the world, and that neither side (which objectively judged) has any special claim to them." But what they DO prove is that it isn't very hard to find cases where political conservative people have done violent things to politically liberal people, and in these two cases those conservative beliefs directly informed the motivations for that violence.
All you are doing is trying to isolate a few statistics from any larger, objective context, and to spin them in such a way as to suggest a causal relationship between the violence and political liberalism. This is intellectually dishonest, and cannot be supported with any objective argument.
Just to put this into perspective, let me remind you that technical speaking, the islamist factions that were behind the events of 9/11 were politically conservative.
TTFN,
Blackout
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Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.