There is no reason for me to believe that there is a god.
Look around the world, and if you aren't too self-absorbed you will see so much pain and horror. Tell me how there is a loving god? A free will arguement will not suffice.
The overused and unintelligible lines, "God has a plan for everyone," "It was God's will," or any sort of claim to "Divine intervention" and/or oversight just don't cut it for me anymore and only negate the notion of free will.
So which one is it? God's will or free will?
Genocides, war, poverty, and suffering beyond belief; most of which are worse than I will personally ever know (I selfishly hope) are taking place across this planet. What happened to the Biblical God who, in the past, would intervene in his people's everyday life? Perhaps it was just a book. (I am inclined to believe so).
Within the past year I began to rehearse and contemplate, in my head, a little phrase that I made up one day when I was in deep though: "god isn't dead (Nietzsche reference/refutation), he just moved on to better things."
I am more conviced of this than I am of anything I have ever been taught from a religious vantage. At least this theory has the potential to explain our existence, our struggles, and our suffering.
There are thousands upon thousands of different religions in the world. Your odds of picking the "right" one and being "saved" are about the same as George Bush being elected to a 3rd term (And that's assuming that there is a right answer). So, basically my theory is more promising than having faith and beliefs found in one specific religious sect; because, at least with my frame of mind, you won't have a 99% chance of being wrong and going to hell. Maybe we need to just accept the fact-in our egotistical minds- that maybe, just maybe we aren't so special. Perhaps we just die and that's it. But go ahead and believe in whatever makes you feel the most comfortable. I won't judge you.
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I completely agree with this blog.
I used to be a Christian. It was mostly due to my raising, and partially due to the desperate need to have someone love me unconditionally.
I see now that i was wrong, and it was weakness. There were too many things pushing me in the other directions.
I think the biggest turnoff was Christianity condemning homosexuals to hell. I know plenty of gay and lesbian people who are way better people than any of the hypocrites in most churches nowadays. To hell with that idea. (Haha, get it?!)
*-They think teenagers have nothing to say. This is just to prove how wrong they are.-*
The major thing that spurred my change in thought was the fact that I am a homosexual. I didn't come out until just after New Years. I had struggled, prayed my whole life for a change, I dated girls, cried, and I felt guilty and miserable. All because of what an old book said.
Once I started looking at the fact that there were so many differen't religions and wars based solely on religious beliefs, I saw that there was no possible way that there was on group who was right.
The fact of the matter is that religion is used to control people. To control thoughts and actions. I am not saying that religion is evil, but I do feel that people can live a great and "moral" life without it.
People are just too insecure to come to terms with the fact that death might be the end.
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
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"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the
It would be very odd if President Bush got voted back in, not because I don't think he's doing his job, but because he can't be voted in a third time?
And faith is your choice, no one has to believe in God it's their personal choice.
I will say though in my opinion with out having authority you don't have conviction there are no consequences and nothing to show your love to, with out God there is no one to live for except yourself, and regardless of whether or not you want to hear it, violence greed and anything that does something good for one person and not for another is selfishness.
On to the case of disease and death, God understands that this life is not the end, this life is nothing compared to the next, therefor death and disease may be something traumatic to us as physical beings because we do not yet know what life after physical death holds.
But God knows what life after death is, and regardless of whether or not people like these things, they're still going to happen.
So you can either believe we're accidents and this life just ends with nothing, no consequences, no rewards nothing, or you can believe that there is a God that he does love you and that you don't understand him as much as he understands us.
If in some peoples opinions nothing happens when you die, well than what's the risk in believing that something does and being prepared for it?
A few things popped into my mind from your post:
You said:
"I will say though in my opinion with out having authority you don't have conviction there are no consequences and nothing to show your love to, with out God there is no one to live for except yourself, and regardless of whether or not you want to hear it, violence greed and anything that does something good for one person and not for another is selfishness."
Why does there have to be a god in order for me to do something selfless for someone else? You make it sound like you only do good things because god wants us to, in which case, how is that good anyway? Wouldn't that be out of fear of punishment or just trying to please a higher being so that you dont go to "hell". I know for a fact that I love people and help them even though I do not believe in god or have a "higher being" to answer to.
This reminds me of this quote:
"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion."
-Abraham Lincoln
You said:
"On to the case of disease and death, God understands .....
and you said:
"But God knows what life after death is, and regardless of whether or not people like these things, they're still going to happen."
And you said:
"So you can either believe we're accidents and this life just ends with nothing, no consequences, no rewards nothing, or you can believe that there is a God that he does love you and that you don't understand him as much as he understands us."
To all of these quotes in which you say "God understands," "God knows," and that I dont understand God as much as he understands us...
I say HOW CAN YOU SPEAK FOR "god" like you do in all of these sentences and statements? It sounds like you are repeating what you have been told by your priest or leaders.
Finally, you said:
"If in some peoples opinions nothing happens when you die, well than what's the risk in believing that something does and being prepared for it?
It is not so much a risk as the fact that religion puts fear in humans. Personally, I think it is more admirable to be able to live a good and "moral" life simply because I choose to rather than out of fear. So many religious people act the way they do because they are afraid of punishment rather than because they simply want to help others. Also, I lived the first 21 years of my life scared to death that I would go to hell for being gay. That's just crazy to think that. I mean there are religions out there who kill in the name of "god" and think they will go to heaven for it, meanwhile I sat scared to death in the closet, afraid to love someone just because they were of the same sex. I understand that religion can and does help people to behave better, but it also does the opposite and often times uses fear to convert or force people to act a certain way.
Doesn't it seem kind of cruel for a god, if they exist, to punish someone simply for not believing in them even if they live a good life? Especially if there aren't any signs of a god?
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
I understand, I have these types of thoughts all the time and that's what strengthens my faith, I have been afraid also for along time of God and whether or not I was doing what was right, I mean how can humans be perfect? well that's when I learned we can't, we have to be forgiven and I believe In Christ we are forgiven but we have to except that forgiveness.
I'm not trying to tell you this is the way for you to go, that's for you to figure out, we all have our own mind and opinions and it's our choice what we'll do and believe in our lives.
I'm speaking from the Bible, and in the Bible it says a man will be judged by the laws of his heart, meaning your conscience so if you die without knowing of salvation through Christ you will be judged by your conscience.
Haha I like that quote from Abe, although I'm pretty sure that was a joke because as far as I know he was a Christian.
You know man I wondered about feelings I had for men in my life and I think society always told me I must be gay, that was until I thought for myself and realized we were meant to love one another, homosexuality is simply having sex with a male, and no offense to you but I can tell you I don't feel that way physically for men.
I'm not going to say I know you're not actually gay but confused, because I realize it's your choice to decide who you are, I would suggest maybe that you think about whether or not you just have a common connection with boys being a boy your self and understanding them from a personal position and I understand you may have considered that.
As far as love, I made a mistake in saying there's no one to love, I mean you have family and friends to love.
You know if you don't feel that God is a central part in life, there's nothing I can say, in my life though I just wouldn't want to live without God, my conscience just convicts me so much that God is there.
I'm going to be honest with you I was mad at the world for a long time, and wasn't putting my faith in God, that's when I was the most scared and confused, but when I truly let go of my self and pleasing my self I really had a transformation I found the feelings I always knew I was dying to feel, whether or not people say it's the feeling of belonging or friendship that's for us to decide.
I don't want to try and make it seem as if I'm telling you this is the best thing for you, in my life I have never felt better though, that's all I have to say.
I know I probably didn't touch on all of your questions, if that's the case please make me aware. Thank you.
I think you explained how you feel and why, but you really didnt' answer any of the questions besides the fact that you admitted I could love and do things for others without believing in god. How can you know what god thinks, and feels, and how this god figure understands us if you have never talked to them?
And you said:
"You know man I wondered about feelings I had for men in my life and I think society always told me I must be gay, that was until I thought for myself and realized we were meant to love one another, homosexuality is simply having sex with a male, and no offense to you but I can tell you I don't feel that way physically for men."
Your sexuality, whether or not you are gay, does not offend me. The reason I know I am gay is because I am sexually attracted to men; however, this does not mean that I just want to go around and have sex with any male that is breathing. There seems to be a common misconception that being gay means you sleep around and are sinful. There is no difference between loving a man or loving a woman and allowing yourself to express it. Perhaps I do prefer men because I am more closely connected to them, but that really only makes more sense. Shouldn't you want to spend your life with someone that you truly connect with and love? It is only religion that tells us that this is wrong. IF god exists, and if I go to hell for loving somebody, then once again I'm not so certain I'd want to spend my time worshiping such a being who would do this to someone.
You Said:
"I'm not going to say I know you're not actually gay but confused, because I realize it's your choice to decide who you are, I would suggest maybe that you think about whether or not you just have a common connection with boys being a boy your self and understanding them from a personal position and I understand you may have considered that."
Trust me I didn't just decide that I was gay. I faught, prayed, cried, dated girls, tried my hardest to conform to religious and societal expectations but to no avail. I find that I am much happier now. And if a god did create me, and gave me these feelings and expected me to suffer my whole life denying them, then once again, I wouldn't want to worship such a god.
I've known I was attracted to males since the age of 12. Trust me, I've read up in the Bible, I've talked to religious people, emailed clergy and experts, prayed, and found no answers. I'd rather be happy.
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
Well that's your choice man.
I get my info from the Bible, also you know I personally feel God teaches lessons through everyday life.
Well anyways it's faith that I live by and I respect the fact that you have your own life and mind, and what you do in your life is your choice.
Being gay is not a choice. Believing in god is a choice. Being gay is not a disease. Cancer is a disease. Being gay is not a "sin" it is loving someone of the same sex and having a relationship with them. IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT SEX.
A lot of what we do in our lives is a choice: I chose where to go to school, what to eat today, to go work out, etc etc. But being white or black, where you are born, who your parents are, your hair color, eye color, or being gay are not choices. If it were a choice, I would be straight. Why would I choose to be hated or looked down on by half of America? Why would I lose close friends over it? Why would I pray (when I still had faith) and hope and try for nearly 9 years of my life if I was choosing to be gay? Religion just spreads lies and standards that are unrealistic and makes people feel like they are bad persons. It is a means of control. It does preach some very good things, but it also was created by people who didn't want to see people doing certain things that they personally didn't agree with.
Bottom line: MY HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A CHOICE. It is who I am, and for years I had wished I wasn't. Please please please do not think that homosexuals choose to be gay.
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
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"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the crowd. But no price is too high for the reward of owning oneself."
Well man I do think homosexuality is a choice, I also think being straight is a choice, I think it all depends on your opinion, I respect that your opinion is that it's not a choice.
But in my opinion it is a choice, and I'm sorry if you're offended by that but that's how I feel.
``Well man I do think homosexuality is a choice, I also think being straight is a choice, I think it all depends on your opinion, I respect that your opinion is that it's not a choice.``
Rethink,
When most gay people refer to being ``gay`` or to ``homosexuality`` or to ``heterosexuality,`` etc., they are refering to the words as they normally used in the social sciences to refer to a sexual orientation
You said that homosexuality is just ``having sex with a man.`` I don`t use that kind of definition because I just don`t find it useful to describe any particular phenomenon. For example, if my brother and his girlfriend are virgins and they date for four years and then on October 1, 2O11 they have sex, then using your definitions, they will suddenly become straight that night?
If I, a male, am only attracted to men and I have a boyfriend for five years who is the love of my life and we are saving sex for the day we marry each other, then we won`t be gay until that day?
And then what if a straight married man becomes impotent but stays with the woman he loves forever. Are they not straight anymore?
That definition just doesn`t seem useful to me. I consider myself gay because of whom I fall in love with and am sexually attracted to. That`s what most of us mean when we say we are gay, or heterosexual or bisexual, and that is definitely not a choice.
I see your point.
It's my opinion that we misunderstand our feelings, and I think because of society and homophobes, homosexuality has been misconstrued to certain feelings, if you think a male is attractive you must be Homosexual, right?
That's what kids in school say when they mock other kids, and I think kids as well as adults think well hey I'm having these feelings that these people say are wrong or homosexual, so I guess I might as well accept that I'm Homosexual.
But I don't agree with this, the name itself describes the meaning (Homo Sexual).
I believe that we were created to admire the men in our lives and there is nothing wrong with noticing that a man is attractive.
I do believe the act of sex with a man either in a Biblical view or even in an evolutionist view is unnatural, in the Bible it says Homosexuality is a perversion, and obviously our bodies were not meant to procreate through our anus.
But you know, I know that I can't change your view, this is my belief and I hope you will possibly consider it and respect the fact that I'm in titled to believe it's wrong as you're in titled to your opinion that it's not.
I forgot to touch on your subject, in my opinion to decide what you believe you should look and decide what makes the most sense to you depending on what you've been through in life, decide whether you think you learned more lessons through trust and hard work, or through some other scenario.
You have to have faith first and for most, but also use your conscience and explore your doubts and question your faith as much as you can, and you'll either gain faith or you'll lose faith.
I respect your opinion. I'm not upset, and I understand where you are coming from. I also respect that fact that you are mature about this debate/conversation as many people on this site are not. I guess that's all I have for now.
As for finding my faith again, I am reading up on both sides of the story. At least it is interesting to hear mutliple points of view on one topic. Yet, at the same time, it is fairly disheartening to find that there are very few absolute truths in life. And yes, I understand that that is where "faith" comes in for many religious persons. The fact of the matter is that I do not have this faith because I think that it was man made. Does that mean that I think that you are dumb for believing? Absolutely NOT. Having convictions, something to hold onto is reasurring. And to be honest there is no true way for me to prove you wrong, just as there is no true way for you to prove me wrong. But at this junction in my life, i strongly feel that there is no religion out there that truly has been created in the way that any higher being would have wished. If there is a god, for me, they have not yet revealed themself.
Dave
p.s. you seem very intelligent and down to earth. Where do you go to school?
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
&
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Thank you also for not turning a simple conversation into a tormenting argument like allot of people on this site seem to do haha.
I agree with you on the whole religion thing, I believe people have perverted anything good in the world and as a result it's so hard for us to find our way through it all, but at least it will probably build character.
I was going to say you seem like a cool guy, and if I knew you personally, I think we would be probably be good friends.
I'm actually a freshman attending community college, I thought about going to a prestigious school but I decided to just attend this one for simple reasons such as it's cheaper haha, and I'm not really looking for anything as far as partying, I'm just less into the whole college experience and more into the whole learning and saving for the future thing.
Anyways I hope you have a good time figuring everything out, and if you ever need a friend to talk to you can message me.
Have a good one, ttyl.
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
I'm surprised that there aren't more religious people on this site who want to defend the major basis for their life choices and beliefs...
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
For what it's worth, it seems to me that it's pretty easy to have faith when everything is all peaches and cream. Real faith, in my opinion, comes from holding steadfast to your beliefs even in the face extreme adversity. Sure the world sucks, but I would argue that it sucks so bad because of Satan's influence, not God's absense.
And even though you might not like the answer it really does boil down to faith. I had a friend whom I took a space science class with in college. He asked me how I could study the universe and still believe in God. I asked him how he could study the universe and not.
There's nothing like a trail of blood to find your way back home.--Nikki Sixx
That still wouldn't answer:
The overused and unintelligible lines, "God has a plan for everyone," "It was God's will," or any sort of claim to "Divine intervention" and/or oversight just don't cut it for me anymore and only negate the notion of free will.
So which one is it? God's will or free will?
What happened to the Biblical God who, in the past, would intervene in his people's everyday life?
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -F.N.
That still wouldn't answer:
The overused and unintelligible lines, "God has a plan for everyone," "It was God's will," or any sort of claim to "Divine intervention" and/or oversight just don't cut it for me anymore and only negate the notion of free will.
So which one is it? God's will or free will?
What happened to the Biblical God who, in the past, would intervene in his people's everyday life?
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."