This one is for those who don't know much about the bill except the fact that it would deport illegal immigrants. Read it and educate yourself. After reading this, maybe you would understand why many people are so against it. Seriously, it's more than just deporting illegal immigrants.
From http://www.ilrc.org/HR4437.php
Dangerous Immigration Legislation Pending in Congress!
Something akin to a panic has descended upon the immigrants’ rights community with the introduction in December 2005 of Republican House Judiciary Committee Chairman Sensenbrenner’s HR 4437, The Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005. Passed last week in the House and poised to move quickly through the Senate, if passed, HR 4437 could signal some of the most sweepingly dramatic changes in immigration law since the now infamous Illegal Immigration Reform and Individual Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) of 1996 and could actually surpass that law in gutting judicial review and eroding due process.
Nothing in the bill provides a comprehensive and realistic plan for our immigration system to enhance border security, support economic growth and provide a legal means to lawful permanent residency for the millions of hardworking undocumented immigrants and their families in the United States. Nearly 500 organizations, including a wide variety of civic, religious and business groups are opposing this legislation. Below is a summary of just a sampling of the areas of greatest concern to the ILRC. See also www.ilrc.org/criminal.php for more information about drastic possible changes regarding immigration consequences of criminal convictions that would result if HR 4437 were passed.
* HR 4437 criminalizes organizations and individuals assisting undocumented immigrants
HR 4437 greatly expands the definition of “alien smuggling” to include assisting a person to remain or attempt to remain in the United States when the “offender” knows the person is in the United States unlawfully – thereby treating social services organizations, refugee agencies, churches, legal services and others the same as smuggling organizations and imposing criminal penalties for providing such assistance. Even family members and charitable workers could face federal prison time for assisting undocumented immigrants.
* HR 4437 criminalizes undocumented immigration status
Under current law, presence in the United States without valid status is a civil violation, not a criminal act. HR 4437 would create a new federal crime of “unlawful presence” and would define immigration violations so broadly as to effectively include every violation, however minor, technical or unintentional, as a federal crime. In addition to permanently barring the entire undocumented population – including 1.6 million children – from the United States, this would also lead to the tragic separation of families as undocumented members of mixed-status families would never be able to secure lawful immigration status in the United States.
* HR 4437 grants state and local law enforcement agencies “inherent authority” to enforce immigration laws
HR 4437 would grant law enforcement agencies the authority to investigate, identify, apprehend, arrest, detain and transfer to Federal custody immigrants they find in the United States. When police act as immigration enforcement agents, it undermines their ability to keep communities safe because immigrants and their family members will be scared to report crimes, fires, and suspicious activity out of fear of exposing themselves, families or neighbors to police. Inevitably, crimes will be left unsolved and the safety of entire communities will be compromised.
* HR 4437 furthers the erosion of due process
Our immigration laws provide that some individuals in removal proceedings can be granted voluntary departure – essentially leaving the United States on their own, with their own money – at the conclusion of the immigration hearing process. This is an important alternative to receiving a removal order because it allows an immigrant to reenter the United States lawfully in the future, despite having been in removal proceedings in the past. It is only granted to individuals with good moral character at the discretion of an immigration judge. Under HR 4377, noncitizens would be required to waive all rights to any further motion, appeals or petition for review related to removal or protection from removal in order to be granted voluntary departure, essentially barring them from a list with their family in the United States
Currently, various circuit courts have ruled that immigration officials may be prohibited from simply removing an individual from the United States without a hearing, based on the reinstatement of a prior removal order. HR 4437 purges this appellate court precedent. As a result, if passed, HR 4437 would strip the rights of immigrants with prior removal orders to any sort of hearing before being removed again.
HR 4437 would also eliminate the ability of any person who wishes to enter the United States on a nonimmigrant visa (such as a tourist visa, a student visa, etc.) to have a hearing before an immigration judge in the event that he or she is later charged with an immigration violation. This is because HR 4437 would prohibit the issuance of a nonimmigrant visa unless the applicant first waives his or her right to any review or appeal of an immigration officer’s decision.
* HR 4437 expands the costly detention of immigrants
HR 4437 would require the Department of Homeland Security to detain all noncitizens apprehended along the border until they are removed from the United Statues – thus filling up already overcrowded and tremendously costly facilities as detainees wait for final decisions on their cases. To address the overcrowding issue, HR 4437 authorizes an increase in DHS detention capacity by contracting with state and local jails – thus further criminalizing immigrants by placing them in criminal facilities.
* HR 4437 guts the federal courts’ authority to review immigration matters
HR 4437 would prevent courts from reviewing any application for naturalization denied because of a discretionary determination of ineligibility based upon “any relevant information or evidence.” This gives the immigration agency practically unfettered authority to deny naturalization applications with no judicial review.
HR 4437 also completely eliminates judicial review where noncitizens visas are revoked and is a specific attempt to remove courts’ ability to review consular decisions.
For the few remaining immigration cases that could be reviewed by an appellate court, HR 4437 implements an unprecedented system whereby no appellate court review is available unless a single judge certifies that the petitioner has “made a substantial showing that the petition for review is likely to be granted.” The decision of the single judge to deny certification for review would be not be open to appeal or review of any kind.
* HR 4437 turns many minor crimes into aggravated felonies, which carry the worst possible immigration consequences
Because aggravated felonies are supposed to be reserved for the worst and most violent of crimes such as murder and rape, they carry the most serious immigration consequences. HR 4437 would make makes minor offenses aggravated felonies, with same concomitant consequences. As a result, misdemeanor drunk driving offenses, mere presence in the United States without documentation, assisting an undocumented immigrant to reside in the United States, and minor accessory roles in the criminal conduct of others would all qualify as aggravated felonies. Most of these changes would be retroactive, meaning that someone who committed an offense 20 years ago that was not a deportable offense then could be charged with an aggravated felony now. By making these offenses aggravated felonies, HR 4437 seeks to treat those who commit nonviolent, negligent acts or omissions the same as those who have acted with criminal intent to injure. Regardless of whether it is a major or minor crime, the mere characterization as an aggravated felony will trigger the same immigration consequences – mandatory deportation, mandatory detention, disqualification for almost all immigration benefits, permanent banishment from the United States without hope of lawful return, and the inability to present any equities to immigration judges regardless of how long the immigrant has been in the United States and how many ties he or she has here. Those at risk include permanent residents who have lived here lawfully for decades. In addition, because the noncitizen population in the United States is so large and many American families include both immigrants and citizens, these deportations will break up U.S. citizen families without any possibility of reunification.
* HR 4437 expands the consequences of an aggravated felony and other offenses
Despite the current drastic consequences of an aggravated felony, HR 4437 seeks to add more. It would bar an immigrant from establishing good moral character required to become a U.S. citizen if they have an aggravated felony conviction in the past – even if they could prove that at the time the offense occurred it was not characterized as an aggravated felony, and they presently have excellent moral character. Under HR 4437, aggravated felonies would also bar admission to the United States and bar the ability to re-immigrate to the United States via an immediate relative as defense to removal. There would be no waiver available. It would further bar an asylum seeker who has an aggravated felony conviction from ever becoming a permanent resident. These provisions will eliminate the little available relief and benefits for immigrants with aggravated felony convictions who demonstrate rehabilitation and strong family, social and economic ties.
* HR 4437 eliminates key safeguards concerning evidence used to prove that an immigrant is deportable for an aggravated felony
Since 1990, the United States Supreme Court has established guidelines, called the “modified categorical analysis,” for how a court can characterize a prior conviction. While this may sound technical, the categorical analysis is a vital safeguard that protects immigrants from wrongful deportation. It ensures that immigration judges consider only the most reliable information and documents from a prior conviction – and not from facts that were not established at the original criminal trial – to identify the offense for which the person was actually convicted. HR 4437 seeks to eliminate these guidelines for those accused of being aggravated felons in immigration proceedings. This means that immigrants could be deported for a conviction of an offense that is not actually an aggravated felony, simply because the offense is listed in the same state criminal statute that also includes an aggravated felony. Eliminating the categorical analysis is a radical violation of basic fairness that seeks to overturn years of established judicial precedent.
* HR 4437 reverses the burden of proof
Historically, the burden has been on the government to prove deportation, because the hardship of deportation is so great. Analogous to the criminal “innocent until proven guilty” standard, the longstanding rule has provided that the government may not simply arrest a long-time permanent resident, allege that she is deportable, and force her to prove that she is not. HR 4437 reverses this burden of proof for those charged with aggravated felonies. This would be an extreme blow to deeply-rooted and longstanding notions of fairness. The result in practice is that once the government decides to charge the person, the low-income, unrepresented, detained immigrant will be required to obtain the public records and to produce the extremely complex legal arguments required to disprove the government’s assertion. If the person cannot meet this nearly impossible burden, he or she will face mandatory detention, deportation, and permanent exclusion and separation from family and friends in the United States.
* HR 4437 makes an immigrant associated with any street gang deportable and ineligible for any immigration benefits
Under HR 4437, immigrants who have never committed any crimes whatsoever and who have obeyed all of our laws can be deported, denied admission and the ability to obtain lawful status, subjected to mandatory detention, and denied all forms of protection such as asylum and temporary protected status, simply because the Attorney General has determined that they are associated with a designated street gang. The Attorney General, through a secret process that provides no notice or opportunity to be heard to the immigrant, can designate any formal or informal group of three or more persons who have committed two or more enumerated gang crimes a “criminal street gang.” As a result of this designation, many immigrants who never committed or supported a single criminal act may be punished severely for exercising their right to association – they may be deported to a country where they face interrogation, torture, detention and even death.
* HR 4437 undermines state court decisions regarding the reversal or vacation of convictions in immigration proceedings
HR 4437 would allow immigration authorities to ignore certain reversals and vacations of criminal convictions by state courts, such as the failure to advise the immigrant of the immigration consequences of the guilty plea. This provision will seriously undermine the concept of “full faith and credit” due to state courts. This is particularly so, in states like California, where the state Supreme Court and other lowers courts have ruled that the failure to advise and defend of the immigration consequences and giving affirmative misadvice as to the immigration consequences constitute ineffective assistance of counsel, meriting vacation of the conviction.
* HR 4437 imposes mandatory minimum sentences for many offenses
HR 4437 adds dozens of new mandatory minimum penalties to current law. It imposes the same sentences upon persons who aid or assist certain immigrants to enter the United States as the immigrants themselves would receive. The bill would also impose one to 10 year mandatory minimum penalties for those who reenter the United States after deportation. These mandatory minimum sentences punish arbitrarily and strip judges from the discretion to make the punishment fit the crime, while also increasing the cost of incarceration to American taxpayers.
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
Look they are called illegal aliens because they are in this country illegally. Just by their being in this country they are making a statement that they do not care about breaking the laws that make this country what it is. All those who keep and protect these people are aiding and assisting law breakers and should be handled in the same manner as the people who are violating the laws of this country. No other country would put up with the problems that these people cause the legal citizens of this country.
Just my opinion but those who break the laws established by the citizens of a country should be punished for breaking those laws.
They are coming herre to get a better life. I understand some of them do not comply but, understand they are all humans just like you and every one have there mistakes including you too.
they come to this country illigaly because they tried other ways of coming here legally but were denied because they dont have a big bank account. when their denid entry legally they have to find other means to come here to support the people they love think about it people probably someone from your family came from other countries in past generations so you have no right to be calling other people illigal imigrants because some one in your family might have been one
I wouldn't say that they try to come here legally at first. I think that many cannot give the effort in trying to come here legally, that it is easier and quicker (in their minds) to jump the border than to wait in line with a considerable amount of others and possibly get rejected.
A coyote costs upwards of 2000 bucks. A visa is less than $500.
many people try years to enter the US legally, and spend more than 500 bucks, believe me. You're obviosly not considering getting regected and trying again and again...
and getting regected again.
And anyways, who said that crossing a desert was easier than sitting in a room waiting to be REGECTED?
Did U know back in the 1920's and earlier--mass unhindered immigration by our ancestors is a myth? America became VERY selective as to who was allowed to come here. If anyone was sick or disabled or lacked a trade, money or destination; they were not allowed into the USA. The selection process began before the individual set foot on the ship in Europe.
Originally published in Harper's Weekly, Aug 26, 1893:
"The hospitality of our land is given freely to all who deserve it; but Uncle Sam has drawn wisdom from experience, and in these latter days has come to demand at least a show of evidence that it will be rightly employed. For the saloon passenger our doors still swing wide open. He may come and go freely for the inquisitive custom-house examiner and the boisterous and importunate dock cabman. But the voyager in the steerage finds his course strewn thick with obstacles. For him the New World speedily becomes a mighty interrogation point. Failure to answer properly any one of a score of questions asked him perhaps half a score of times and by as many different men, failure even to allay suspicion by his manner, though his words are satisfactory, may cost him vexatious delay, or the shame and bitterness of a wrecked ambition.
His trials presumedly begin when he seeks to buy his passage ticket; for in these days the steamship companies are made responsible for the people they bring to us, and may be subjected to a fine of $20 for each unwelcome visitor, along with the necessity of taking him home again. NO SOONER DOES THE IMMIGRANT GET ON BOARD SHIP THAN HE IS PASSED IN PROCESSION BEFORE A PHYSICIAN, AND IF HE LOOKS ILL HE IS PUT ASHORE. During the voyage he is put through his catechism once more. Nineteen questions are asked him concerning his nationality, age, health, trade, resources, and prospects in the New World, and these answers MUST be SWORN to. Then he is drilled in the proper method of conducting himself before the examining officer in New York, and a tag is given him to be worn conspicuosly upon that occasion, the purpose being to indicate clearly upon what particular sheet his answers are recorded."
At a time when the average ticket to America was $30 it was VERY EXPENSIVE to have to take somebody back to Europe. The additional $20 fine per person had a very serious effect on the steamship companies. This process became VERY effective and kept rejection rates at points of entry into the USA in the low percentages.
So my point is--that the saying at Statue of liberty: "Give us your tired, weak, and downtrodden..." etc--is a FARCE! It is indeed a poem written by a person who had died 16 yrs earlier...(before statue of liberty was in existence)
I never learned ANY OF these FACTS about immigration in school--that is for sure!
D
I agree
It has my vote!
well good for you but your vote doesnt count on this one.
IF GOD WITH US WHO AGAINST US?
This bill will cause start of a civil war in USA.
Before anyone uses the argument that this nation was founded on immigration, please spare me that argument. This Nation was founded on LEGAL immigration, by immigrants really looking for a better life as contributing members of this great Nation, indeed myself is a member of that illustrious group. However ILLEGAL immigration is just what it is illegal, they broke the law, all these 12million folks have broken the law and should be deported, none have ask for asylum, they are a drain on the economy. The bottom line, there is a law in this country that do not allow people to enter this country without proper documentation. My question is those politicians who are fumbling to talk about Illegal Immigration, should ask to themselves, should I try to implement the law? If you are sincere in your position to allow illegals to come to this country and stay for ever, then try to change the law and make it a legal point. Anyone from any country should be allow and stay here as much as possible.
They are draining our economy because of the following reasons,
1) they will work for less than minimum wage
2) they do not spend what they do make in this country, they take it back to their native country
3) most refuse or can't learn English i.e. bi-lingual education cost the taxpayers fellows.
4) They further cost the taxpayers because they qualify for welfare, free hospital care, and all sorts of federal and state hand-outs, mean while they pay no FICA, or taxes of any kind because they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
5) A majority of these illegals are collection Earn Income Credits from IRS,
6) They drive wages down for the rest of the country because they will work for so little, the big corporations, and Hollywood stars needing gardeners, won't hire Americans because we would like to work for a living wage, how Un-American of us to think that with hard work we could support ourselves.
7) It is also injustice for rest of the world. There are millions of people waiting in the sideline to enter to this country in a legal way; some of them have been waiting for 10 / 15 years. You are sending message for them, that illegal way is the best way to enter to US. What a tragedy!!
It is interesting to note that there are now 35.2 million legal and illegal immigrants living in the U.S. as of March 2005, 2.5 times the peak of the 1910 legal immigration wave, source immigrants at Mid- Decade Center for Immigration Studies. There have been several studies done by both the liberal and conservative think tanks citing the biggest wave of immigration legal and illegal occurred at the beginning of President Johnson's "Great Society " era. , you know you don't have to work to get ahead the government will give it to you off the backs of the working class era in our history, sadly our Great Nation has not escaped that after 4 decades we are still paying for the GREAT SOCIETY.
I urge you to spend your "political capital" support MR. Frist unite the Republican Party, and build the fence as well as put thousands border patrol agents on watch I will gladly pay the tax dollars for that, our Nations economic strength as well as her safety depend upon it.
Last fifteen years I have been voting for the democratic candidates, but, this is the time I am feeling the other way. I can not find a bold and straight democrat to stand up and tell the truth, that illegals need to leave this country.
If you have never noticed that this country was founded with immigrants even if you don't what to think of it. the ILLEGAL part was brought on later and i don't think that the natives though of those immigrant as legal when they start to take over their land but of course you guy are all perfect. Illegal immigrant do alot for this country. why would you say that the money they earn here is spent here. THEN HOW ARE THEY LIVING? they have to eat, pay rent, gas and all of the other expense of live in he U.S. ILLEGAL immigrants as they are call do send money to their native country but thats why they work their butt off. they take two- three job so they can live a good life here and help there family. They do pay taxes! sorry to tell you but there is a way for Illegal Aliens to pay taxes and they do you know why because they don't want al their work to go down the drain. yeah what about all the taxes taken out of every pay check when illegal aliens couldn't claim that money what would happen to it. oh yah no one say anything about that right. now about them take up all the job i think if you lazy AMerican would get off your ass and want to work you would get a job. but NO you guys want to go stand at a resturant and not work and get paid well then of course emloyers are going to want to hire those who will work but i guess you guy being lazy is the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS fault as well right.
i hope GOD helps you open your eyes.
This is for JOY!
You're a cunt ass ignorant BITCH!
That's all.
thanks for your time.
sounds like a very good law. if they illegal then they have committed a crime ,& send them back home, and if a employer has illegals working for a company, then that company should be fined and the employer should be put on trail.
THEIR IS A FAMUS SPEECH THAT SAYS "UNITED WE STAND" FOR ALL YOU AMERICANS CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN NOW ALL YOU PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO KICK US OUT OF YOUR COUNTRY.I'M MEXICAN I COME FROM MICHOACAN MEXICO BUT NOW I LIVE IN A SMALL TOWN CALLED COACHELLA THE ONLY THING THATS OVER HERE ARE FIELD OK IF YOU KICK ALL THE ILEGA IMIGRANTS ANSWER ME THIS ARE YOU PEOPLE(AMEICANS)GOING TO PICK UP THE FRUITS AND VEGETABLES FROM THE FIELD ON THE SUMMER LIKE WE DO YEAH DIDNT THINK SO SE IF IT WASENT FOR US YOU WOULD BE LIKE YOU ARE THIS WHOLE LAW IS A BUNCH OF BULL$#&%.YOU PEOPLE TREAT US LIKE IF WE WERE ANYMALS SEE IM 17 AND WHAT HAPPEND THIS WEEK IN THE LITTLE TOWN I LIVE IS THAT ANOTHER MEXICAN GOT SHOT ARASSED BY A COP NOT ONLY THAT BUT HE DID IT IN FRONTS OF FAMILIES AND KIDS THE BEST PART OF THIS IS THEY ASKED IM TO STOP AND HE SAID "ITS MY JOB I GET PAID TO KILL" THAT BLEW ME OF WHATS HAPPENING NOW THO AMERICA THE FAMOUS AMERICA WE
You lie Aldo!! I live in the Coachella Valley also,, And no such thing happened...
Again!!! Learn to SPELL people!! And if you weren't here to pick fruit for a buck an hour, my "AMERICAN BORN" son who has been looking for a job for the past year would gladly do it for $10.00 an hour, which is what they would probably have to pay if you people wouldn't come here willing to work for pennies. GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!!
diana sanches!!! dumb bitch if i was your mom i would be ashamed!!!! fuken trick
I am of ashamed this and other things our country and society are doing. How could some one think to devise a law like this is beyound me, but we got so many other goof-ball laws it really makes you wouder what the government is doing. No wounder we are the most hated country in the world and more and more americans hate america. We are destroying our selfs from within. We want the cake and eat it to. Unions wanted higher wages, so companies shiped work over seas, imigration problems caused companies to move over seas, and out sourcing to across the border. What is left? China, and others could hold our country in ransom, due to the fact that most of what Americans purchase is not made here. many people do not want to do what illegals do. Do onto your neighbor as to do onto your self. Who is going to pay for this? higher taxes, The people who made this law or voted for it should be arrested. For sure they are not good honst christians they are closet, weekend or sunday morning only, christans. I am glad they dont go back100 years, then we all would be in trouble. Why dont we make mexico a 51st state, that way every one would be happy. Most of the jobs we sent down there (NAFTA), moved to china any way (so dont have to worry about that), if a $5 bought the same here as in mexico city, well why come here. I think the 51st state idea is a lot better than hr4437, The government lied about our current problem in the middle east also, and see where that has gotten us. Lies, lies and more lies, this is not good. Well I am convinced that I will not vote for 1 republican this time
MOST MEXICAN DO CRIME GO TO LA THEY HAVE GANK THEY LIKE THIEF,
MEXICO DONT HAVE ANYTHING WHY HAVE TO PART OF US , WHAT THEY HAVE ONLY SCUM PEOPLES
Did you go to school? Did you not learn correct grammar? I assume that you are one of the idiot americans. So let tell you something, you know that you got here somehow, someone in you family was here illegally go back to where yu came from.
Please, if you are just here to insult yourself, visit a chat site instead.
It's time for us as a nation to stop being so fuzzy headed and wishy-washy. Our resources are not unlimited, and the taxpayers, you and I, are overburdened, our infrastructure is strained and we can't go on allowing everyone who wants to be here to just move in.
These people are here illegally, they make a mockery of those who do it the right way. The open borders crowd would have us believe these people somehow have a right to be here. They do not have any such right, the US still is a sovereign nation, and I hope it will remain that way, despite the efforts of the Corporatists to do otherwise.
My wish is that the Senate would enact similar legislation and we could get control of our borders once again. They should have done it twenty or thirty years ago.
I suggest this link to former Colorado governor and environmentalist Dick Lamm's thoughts:
http://www.lawatchdog.com/DestroyingAmerica.html
Illegals are eligible or PA state grants for college and pells. That doesn't seem fair to the people who are legally in that state. If it is ok to be here illegally to get an education for free then all students should sneak into the UK because we wouldn't have to pay for college or healthcare there.
You have got to be kidding me. First of all, there are 12 million illegal immigrants in U.S. Tell me how are you going to get rid all of them You can't! All we can do is to prevent from it. I think what Shockerblazer is trying to say is that the law sounds impossible to remove all illegal immigrants in this country. Think about it. If you were born as u.s citizen and your parents are illegal immigrants, wouldn't you be remove from this country too? The law is stupid and pointless. Is this going to make our country safer? Yes..safe from illegal immigrants not terrorists.
I suggest this also... we all lose, the only ones who win are the employers who abuse the illegals, and us...
http://caglecartoons.com/previewColumn.asp?columnID={A9D09B71-D6FF-435F-B030-73394B4CF4B8}
As someone that went through the immigration process, and spent six years doing this - i find it unbeleivable that people who broke the law to enter the country are being let go scot free. Look, these people knew there was a law prohibiting them from entering the country - and they knowingly broke it. Shouldn't there be some consequence for this?
This is a slippery slope. Once you let the illegals stay, you're just giving the next wave of illegals a green light.
reply to someone that went trough
you are an imigrant to and i see that you think of your self as a white person ant that makes me sad for you because you should know better you know the situation that goes on in your country and other countrys you know that comming here legally is not always posible so dont be acting like you didn't sufer to get here legally think of your family and your children what would they say if they knew ther father or mother was a racist trash
I'm sorry, but how is opposition to illegal immigration considered "racist"? You americans throw that word around too much without thinking.
Many illegals come from all different background. There are Whites, Hispanics, Blacks, Asians and Middle Easterners. I'm sure we can throw in a couple of Pacific Islanders in there too.
So where is the racism in it, huh?
This sounds like a fairly good law. I can't believe how many people who are against this law can say with a straight face that it is bad to prosecute people who are BREAKING THE LAW. This isn't Monopoly folks. There is no get out of jail free card. Illegal immigrants are illegal. They are cost me, the taxpayer, a lot of money and they generally make up a large percentage of the slums of this country. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against LEGAL immigration. For instance, if you go to college in this country, you should be fast-tracked to citizenship. With a couple extra credits in college, you should get your citizenship along with your diploma. But come on folks, we have enough poor and destitute in this country. Why should we open the flood gates for more? Let's take our limited resources and help our own before we put additional pressures on an already over-burdened welfare system. I'll be writing my senators letter today to vote YES on this one!
micheal do you even know what you are saying, so you want to make immigrants to show churches that they have papers just to let them in.
you want mother and fathers that are not legal and wanting the better for there children in coming to a new country which lets say the u.s and taking there parents away and never seeing them again. c,mon put yourself in their shoes. i dont know how old you are or even if you have kids but if you do; would you like your kid taken away from you just because you are illegal and you are coming to this country so your kid can have new oppurtunities that you couldnt. and you are not paying any taxes you are brain wash with what you here its the other way around immigrants pay for themselves i dont know where you are getting your news from but they are totaly wrong check your reaserch. well i hope you change you mind but there are million of people that are against you.
Anyone who thinks this law is a good idea hasn't thought it through. Don't tell me, a Native American, that this country was built on legal immigration. This country was built by people looking for a better life, escaping oppression, and seeking resources.
It's human nature to seek out a better life for yourself and your family. What brings people here are jobs and personal safety. If you enforced the laws already in place, making it illegal to hire someone without proper documentation, then the oppotunities attracting illegal immigration would, in large part, disappear. But we're not going to punish white-collar CEOs who break the law -- who break the law for greed, to lower wages. No, we choose to punish people who, by human nature, seek out a decent life for themselves and their families.
The most heinous aspect of this bill is that it criminlizes charitable behavior. It says to us -- Don't help anyone, don't be kind, don't be compasionate. Instead it says -- Be cruel, report people, turn your back on the injured and sick, be paranoid. I recommend you read 1984 before you advocate giving people permission to turn against other people in this way.
There are other solutions to the immigration problem. This bill takes the low road, and it will bring out the worst in our country and our people. I have to wonder -- why this proposal, instead of another that would address the problem in a more civilized, humane, fair, and efficient way?
This law is CRAP!, yes, CRAP! America would just go down the drain if this law is passed.
This bill sounds great to me. I am going to encourage my senators and representative to vote YES on it. In fact, this issue is so important to me that if they don't support it, they have committed "political suicide" as far as my vote in concerned. That means, if they vote no on this, I will vote for whoever the opponenent is in the next election regardless of all other issues.
reply to this bill sounds great to me.
if they pass this bill it would be economic suicide for the united states
for those in agreement to legal immigration, see if you can follow this:
If you apply for a visa to immigrate to the US it takes 10 years before they agree to give you a work permit, then after an FBI backgorund check & $2000 in fines you are allowed to reside in the US. That system is just as broken.
We can't deny that this country was found by immigration, even the native americans migrated from Asia.
The behavior that leads to the need to create laws against immigration is arrogancy. If History has taught us anything is that empires fall, mostly due to arrogancy.
There are 220 million americas that were blessed by being born here, there is 12 million illgal imigrant, that is less than 6%, we can be the cause of the economic problems of the US, how about the 40 million whites in welfare. Most people that migrate don't come here to use walfare, they come here to get educated, earn a decent salary and be productive.
If you issue is the abuse to our walfare situation let's start with the 40 million first. and the other 100 million americans that choose to stay ignorant and poor.
The current system used for legal immigration into the country is not efficient. Anyone one like myself who has gone through the system knows the hardship and expenses you go through for numerous years to obtain legal status in the country. If the money, manpower, resources and support going into HR 4437 were put into the already existing system and into temporary work programs this country would have a great resource available to it and people would benefit all around. I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I did if it’s easier for someone else well that isn't unfair it would just show progress in the system.
What part of ILLEGAL confuses everyone?
Your topic should read ILLEGAL Immigration. The same people who stress the 1st Amendment and the keeping of the law have a selective set of laws which are ok to break, and others which are not. Hypocrite, yes you are.
Instead of these people fixing up their own country to make a better life for themselves, they want to come to our country and turn it into a third world country. Anyone who supports these illegal immigrants, is a traitor! And I hope you get some MS-13 scum moved right into your neighborhood.
The Senate COMMITTEE stripped the most important parts...but the game isn't over. The full Senate will RESTORE the important parts, and felony statutes are coming for illegals and their accomplices.
"Before anyone uses the." Joy:
First of all, you are an idiot.
Second: you are an ignorant parrot who only repeats what it hears without first using its small brain to think.
Third: Regardless all you typed, you're an idiot.
Fourth: You are an idiot who probably didn't even graduate from HS, so let yourself be educated a bit; before 1924 there was no "legal immigration", the only requirement to enter the US was to be a physical-psychologically-OK (not even 100% healthy) NON Chinese person... period.
Fifth: You're an idiot.
in 1924 if you didn't have any money to
pay for a medical problem no one
was req. to help you either, if you couldn't feed yourself you were't given free food, and if you didn't have a place to live you didn't get free room and board.
Remeber that was a different time.
We can't afford to do the same things we did then. We were building this country then we're maintaining it now.
This bill is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of because. One, immigrants do all the work other people call shamefull, like they work in the fields picking up fruits, or they work in sweing factories making clothing. What will all the big companies that hire immigrants do if that bill passes those companies will go down, which will end up hurting the economy. So the bill wont only affect immigrants it will affect the rich people the own companies and hire immigrants as the employee's
Americans used to do these jobs. And Americans would do these jobs again if they were, once again as in the past, paid an "American wage" to do them. The problem is an illegal immigrant will do the job for much less, sometimes less than minimum wage and "under the table". An illegal immimgrant also doesn't care about things like medical insurance, retirement, etc. that an American citizen needs.
Our economy is already hurting by illegal aliens who:
Good. Bust those companies that knowingly hire illegal aliens to reduce labor costs. And they don't even pass the labor cost savings onto the American consumer. They just line their pocket with more cash while ignoring the social and economic damage their actions have done to our country.
sure, lets bust those companies and or factories, and loose those jobs to mexico, as these companies and or factories will move to mexico turn them into "maquiladoras" where it will cost them even less to man them. Brilliant.
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS GUY TALKING ABOUT??
The USA is made of immigrants! What is the problem? Everyone is here for a better life. This is a reason to get people against each other.
The problem is simple: It's OK to get a better life as long as it's legal!
I would have a better life if I broke into Bill Gates' house and lived there for free.
I would have a better life if I stole money from the bank. Why would they care? They won't miss a few thousands.
See the problem now?
THINK PEOPLE. THINK!
THINK, HUH. these people are not breaking into anything, so just because you broke into bill gates house, is he going to hand you everything, uhmm, i think not, they are not stealing either, they are working hard labor for their money. thieves come in all shades, illegal or not.
yes, the USA is made up of immigrants
but the illegal immigrants are costing
the country. I don't know why people think that people don't want immigrants here, we do, we just want them to come here legally. Is it really to much to ask?
NO offence but EVERYONE who wants this law to pass is seriously just plain retarted.
JUST SOME INFORMATION FOR THE DEMENTED.....
if all immigrants or "latinos" ,cuz we all well know it, were to go on a strike for lets say 2 weeks, meaning they didnt do ANY work this country the U.S would probably enter another recession or even a depression.
if they dont work factories cant sell their products, if factories cant sell their products they lay poeple off, IMMGRANTS OR NON IMMIGRANTS, if poeple are layed of they dont spend their money and the stock market crashes and if u dont know what might happen look up the year 1929...
A Little more INFO. for you know who.
if this law passes illigal immigrants would be scared to even be encountered with any police activity. so for all you poeple who are in favor of this law. if your house were to be burgalirized, you car stolen, you were gettin beat up, they saw a crime of ANY TYPE, they most likely would not call the police making YOUR HOME TOWN more dangerous and unsafe place to be at.
THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO THIS THAT JUST
PLAIN DOES NOT MAKE SENCE SO TAKE IT IN YOUR PART TO LOOK
IT UP. SO I SPEAK FOR ALL WHO HAVE BRAINS AND THINK
THINGS OUT BEFORE JUMPING TO CONCLUSION, THAT
THIS LAW DOES NOT MAKE SENCE... JUST THINK ABOUT IT
BECAUSE THIS WILL AFFECT "EVERYONE"!!!
I HEAR ALL THESE POEPLE TALKING ABOUT HOW IMMIGRANTS TAKE UP TAX MONEY, HOW THEY ARE HELPING SUPPORT IMMIGRANTS WHEN THEY DONT WANT TO, AND HOW MEXICANS TAKE UP A LOT OF WEALTHFARE.
FIRST OF ALL GET YOUR RESEARCH RIGHT POEPLE..what you think in your little brainless head is different from what really is true. ILLEGAL immigrants due pay taxes incase all of yous did not know. they dont get benefits, they dont get refunds, and dont get that many special privilages that they sone make up in some way with the money they contibute. ABOUT THE WEALTHFARE, IMMIGRANTS CHANCES IN GETTIN WEALTHFARE is minimal since in the applications you need to fill out you need to show forms of citizenship and for you poeple who think immigrants are on it they cant really be since they dont got SS numbers, the main way to identidy yourself.
IT JUST GETS ME SO MAD HOW POEPLE TALK ALL THIS CRAP THAT THEY DONT EVEN KNOW ABOUT. THEY TRY BLAMING THEIR PROBLEMS ON OTHER HELPLESS POEPLE WHO HAVE NO SAY IN ANYTHING TO TRY AND MAKE THEM FEEL GUILTY.
WHO AGREES WITH ME?
AND THEN OTHER POEPLE HAVE THE NERVES TO TALK ABOUT HOW THE U.S. SHOULD FOCUS ON THEMSELFS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO HELP OTHER, WHEN THE POEPLE LIVING IN THE U.S. are the ones who are lazy and need cars for everything consuming more oil than anywhere else in the world, smoking millions of cigarrets everyday thinking it wont cause any problems. YOU WANT TO START FIXING THE U.S
STOP BEING HYPOCRITES AND BEGIN WITH YOURSELFS!!!!!!
this country is great, we should all start appreciating it and stop worryin on how to divide this country in different social and economic classes. were all the same you are no different in any way than the people for or againts this bill. only couple shades seperate us.
They pay some taxes -- "unavoidable" taxes, such as sales tax and tax on gasoline.
They do not pay income tax. When they get paid for jobs they do, they go to a "check cashing" place so there is no record to the IRS.
Sure they do.
And they get all of this without having to pay income tax. In other words, they have it better than legit citizens!
Of course not. You only get a refund if you pay income tax.
They get fake SS#s.
And because they are poverty-stricken, they take jobs that Americans used to do. Used to do because Americans can't afford to do those jobs at the wages the illegal aliens are willing to do them at (less than minimum wages in many cases, with no health care benefits).
In other words, they STEAL jobs from Americans. And even more, they take a huge chunk of the money they make and send it to Mexico. So a lot of the money illegal aliens make isn't used to stimulate the Amercian economy, but the Mexican one.
Can you say "leech" or "parasite"?
Oh clueless one... You really need to do some research.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004873.htm
and how many of your poeple claim welfare when they really dont need it? i think the numbers are in the millions. wut about immigrants i think its around half a percent of the whole population.
Everyone that is walking are walking for the wrong reasons they are just hearing what the media is producing for them they are getting on the side of the media. All forms of media are really in control of this bill. Most of the students that are walking out of school dont care they just wanna ditch. The ones that should be protesting are the parents of the students walking out who are just sitting back and watching this whole ordeal.
This legalizes racism and discrimination, and criminalizes kindness and charity. Plain and simple. This is not the way to solve anything.
Our economy is completely dependent upon illegal immigration - this is why it is not regulated as much as some of you seem to feel it should be. So many of you say that the illegal immigrants are "stealing" American jobs. This is ridiculous - it is not that they are "willing" to work for such low wages, it's that corporations are looking out for corporate best interests. If they cannot obtain cheap labor here in the States, then they outsource to foreign countries where they can pay even less for the same amount of labor. And I do hope that you all understand that outsourcing hurts our economy because we lose everything to do with the company's production (rent, utilities, capital/income gains) - not just the workers' jobs. Also, legal citizens cannot afford to work for such low wages, so removing the people willing to take those jobs would just leave many many jobs unfilled. Also important to note is that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are here with the intention of working TEMPORARILY and then intend to return to their home nations. However, because of the failings of our system, basically we force them to remain here and become a burden on our health, education, and other systems. By improving the system and providing incentives for them to return to their home nations, we could solve these issues.
WHAT SHOULD BE DONE is that illegal immigrants should be accurately documented so that we have correct census information, perhaps even facilitating the influx of illegal immigrants by designing a registry of employers who could use aliens, and then carefully monitoring immigration and providing visas to aliens as jobs become available, disallowing entry into the nation if we do not have jobs available for them. This would decrease the "illegal" part of immigration because it would be in their best interests to participate in this registry program, because they are coming to work and if there is no work, they have no reason to immigrate. They should be allowed to work here because our economy is dependent upon them, they should be taxed so that they are supporting the government and systems that are allowing them to work and/or attend school, and perhaps a small additional tax should be added which will go toward a fund to pay for their healthcare. This fund would be supplied only by illegal immigrants' incomes, so whiny taxpayers would have no right to complain. Additionally, the citizenship process should be improved, there should be greater opportunities for immigrants to learn the language, and there should also be incentives for the aliens to return to their home-nations, such as an employer-sponsored bonus after they leave the States. Naturally, similar programs have been attempted in the past but failed because our government cheated & lied (okay, fine, we just ended up not following through on our plans) to the immigrants. In order for any policy to be effective, we canNOT lie or cheat the parties we are trying to assist. But that should be self-evident.
THIS LAW IS FULL OF BULL SHIT, ALL THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES ARE IMMIGRANTS, ALL EXCEPT 4 INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. THE WHITE PEOPLE CAME IN AND TOOK OVER OUR LAND AND WE ALOUD THEM TO LIVE HERE THAN THEY THANK US BY BUILDING A BORDER, AND A BUNCH OF STUPID LAWS WERE THEY CRIMINALIZE US WHEN THEY ARE THE REAL CRIMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOR THE PERSON WHO THINK IMMIGRANTS DONT PAY "INCOME TAX" YOU ARE WRONG.
IMMIGRANTS get an Identification Number that the IRS gives to them to pay taxes. if you dont believe me then find out for yourslef, BUT LIKE I ALREADY SAID ALL THESE POEPLE TALK ALL THIS CRAP WITHOUT KNOWING SHIT! and if ANYONE goes to the EMERGENCY ROOM legal or illegal they cant come out of the hospital without registering witht them and giving them your naem and address which they later will mail you your debt YOU FREAKING MORON....im just talking to the person who replied to my post.
AND THE REASON WHY MEXICANS TAKE "AMERICAN JOBS" IS CAUSE SOME AMERICANS ARE TO GOD DAMN LAZY TO DO IT THEMSELFS, EITHER CUZ THEY GOT TO MUCH RESPECT FOR THEMSLEFS TO DO A DEGRATING JOB OR BECAUSE THEY DONT LIKE WHAT THEIR GETTIN PAID FOR DOING? but whose the bad guy there huh? the hard working innocent poeple who rather work their asses off to help their family members or the poeple who WOULD NOT DARE TO TAKE A JOB DOING WHAT THOSE "leeches" or "parasites" do because its to degrating. IM AMERICAN AND IM MEXICAN. i do look both ways i would not take those jobs unless my life depended on it, but you know what i give those poeple all my respects for caring enought about their poeple and risking everything to help them.
SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST SO IGNORANT AND RETARTED..
No they don't. And why would they? It's not like they care about our laws? They only obey the laws they fell like obeying.
I know of several illegal immigrants who have done work around our neighborhood. My neighbor told me this illegal alien cashed his check at a "check cashing" place. Why do you think he cashed it there rather than a bank? In order to avoid the IRS discovering the income, duh.
And the illegal aliens who hang around Home Depot, etc. get paid cash. You are smoking crack if you think they declare this to the IRS.
Of course they would never use a fake name and address.
And even when they do use their real name/address, they just don't pay the bill. They don't care if it screws their credit up. They have none to begin with. Ain't nothing a hospital can do if they flat out ignore or refuse to pay a $600.00 bill.
It is never right to have a better life if having a better life involves breaking the law.
HI, DUMBASSS... I'M 19 AND BORN IN THE BEAUTIFUL CANCUN, MEXICO. AND I DO PAY TAXES, ACTUALLY, I'M A TAX PREPARER, AND WHAT THE OTHER GUY SAID IT'S TRUE, I HELP MY PEOPLE TO GET THEIR IRS NUMBERS. MY PARENTS HAVE BEEN PAYING TAXES FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS, MY GRANDPARENTS HAVE BEEN PAYING TAXES FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS! IS THAT NOT PAYING TAXES. I'M THE 3RD GENARATON OF MY FAMILY HERE AND Y KNOW WHAT I'M PAYING TAXES TOO.
YOU NEED TO REALIZE THAT WE ARE HERE TO WORK AND HAVE A BETTER LIFE, WE'RE NOT STEALING YOUR JOBS, 'CAUSE FIRST OF ALL YOU NEVER DID THEM, SO WHAT YOUR BURDEN?
AND LIKE ALL LATINOS HERE IN THE U.S. I'M GOING TO FIGHT FOR MY RIGHTS, THINK WHATEVER YOUR RED NECK MIND TELLS YOU.
PENDEJOS LOS QUE CREAN QUE NOS VAN A VENCER, SOMOS LA RAZON POR LA QUE LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS ES LO QUE ES, SIN EMBARGO NOS TRATAN ASI. NUESTROS FAMILIARES HAN IDO A SUS GUERRAS. SUS GUERRAS SE HAN CONVERTIDO EN NUESTRAS LAGRIMAS TAMBIEN. QUE MAS QUIEREN DE NOSOTROS, SI PAGAMOS Y COMEMOS DE NUESTRO PROPIO ESFUERZO.
SI SE PUEDE MIS PAISANOS!!!!!!!!
I am totally against this bill.. How can people say such horrible things about the illegal immgrants that are here. Half the time they take jobs no body else wants!! Would you want to be a cook, busboy or a janitor and not make jack!! These people come here to better there lives and the lives of there families. When they can come here and make $400 a week and in Mexico they are lucky to make $60 a week. Can you feed a family on $60??
Like what?
That they are in this country illegally? That they used forged IDs/SS cards to get jobs? That they don't pay income tax? That they take more than they contribute?
There's a saying that is very apropro here: THE TRUTH HURTS.
I was a busboy and cleaned dishes when I was in high-school.
It is a MYTH that no one wants those jobs.
What is a fact is that no one wants to get paid $4/hr to do those jobs, nor should they when minimum wage is $6.25/hr.
If I ran into the bank, stole thousands of dollars and got away with it, my family's life would be better too. Both are illegal.
i think that "white" americans that are against this are full of it. think about something...(that is if your brains up to it ignorants).. what would the US economy be like without 1 single immigrant? huh? yep... zero... most of you are descendants from hispanics anyway and are acting stupid.. and to be quite frank about it dont worry my latinos because as much determination and hard work we put in to this I KNOW FOR A FACT this bill will not be passed so lets just let these gringos keep talking all that bull cuz theyre going to look so stupid when its not passed... i come from a HISPANIC family and i know what it is to be an american because guess wat? I AM AMERICAN whether you like it or not. plus, many of the teenage kids in highschools doing great are hispanic immigrants.... all your white kids do is complain about how hard it seems for them to pass a class and immigrants are learning english faster than ever AND doing better than those white kids... how many high school dropouts are there anyway? and most of them are white kids who have it so easy but the hispanics are the ones working their asses off to get scholarships and succeed in this life. plain and simple: YOU ARE INTIMIDATED BY US AND YOU DONT WANT TO ADMIT IT! all i can say is i laugh in your faces
What about "dark" Americans like my Filipina wife that emigrated here legally who are against it? People who paid $$$ to the lawyers, filled out forms, waited in line to come here legally only to have cheaters from Mexico cut ahead of her in line.
LEGAL immigants are just fine. I don't care if they are Hispanic, Asian, whatever.
Ah, we have a racist here.
I Loved what that boy put up in da top comment exept about the gringo stuff, and yes gringo is slur not nesesarely racist alright. so dont take it the wrong way, the problem with you talking about your
philipino wife, she did not do it because she did not have the means to get here, she did not have the bravery to try to get here illigaly.
Mexicans come here to make money, and give their familis a better life, your wife came for that too im guessing but don't go and say that the ones that came here illigaly are cheaters, what we are is brave, do you think it was a walk in the park to get here? we risked our lifes, and in order for us to stay here we have to pay so much money to lawyers it hurts.
plus no one cuts in line the imigration naturalisation system is all cloged, it depends on where you from they will deal with it in the order the paper work came from if she got there in front of some mexican or Hispanic jappannese chinese vietnameese iraqui or another philapino like her she will be be treated in that order.
So please know what you are talking about before you come here and make an ass of your self, also look at this you just got disproved and slaped in the face by a highschool student that has more brains than you will ever have in your life, because of your heard headed ness and closed mindedness.
People like you are desecrating this Great Nation.
What a great law! Why should some sneak in this country, break the law, and get ahead of those who follow the law? And now, if you oppose these nuts protesting for their for 'rights', you are automatically a racist? What impecable logic!
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=77997
SAY THEY DONT CONTRIBUTE IN YOUR ECNOMY THAT SOME B/S.. I KNEW SOME OF YOU RETARDS WOULD NOT BELIEVE IT IF ANYONE JUST TOLD YOUS..WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT READ PARAGRAPHS 5 AND 6. IF IT WASNT FOR IMMIGRANTS ALL YOUR RETIRED PARENTS, FRIENDS WITH DISABILITIES, UNEMPLYED PEOPLE, AND POEPLE IN POVERTY WOULD BE STARVING BECASUE THEY WOULD NOT GET A CHECK FOR SOME MONEY EACH MONTH!!
SOOOO COMON KEEP BITCHING WHEN THE SS SYSTEM CRASHES WERE GONNA BE LAUGHIN IN YOUR FACES. UNLESS YOUS WANT TO STOP BEING STUPID AND THINK ABOUT WHATS RIGHT.
JUST READ IT!!!
ok I know what the mexicans are saying im not mexican but I understand!! I also understand what the people who are for the bill are saying!!! just here me out!!! look altough you guys are righ I dont know any white or black people who would work the fields that low of pay and I understand that if they make them leave prices for are fruit and veggies will sky rocket!!! BUT now here is the other side the illegal aliansher now still have to eat, need medical, there kids need an education and all that wich comes from taxes which they dont pay and if we cant educate, give our people medical and food who are legal we shouldn't doing it for people who arent citizens they think we should take care of are own at home who are LEGAL first before we try to save the rest of the world!!! so now that you have read this you have insight to both sides!!! oh and all of you guys protesting read the ENTIRE bill before you do so you know what your protesting for!!! snd if you have read it then you know that its not only mexicans its illegal alians in general!!!
Black and white people -- American citizens that is -- used to work these jobs.
And why would you expect them to? American jobs demand an American wage.
Not in the long term. Just like the prices weren't "sky high" when Americans used to fo these jobs.
Jay Leno had a good joke about this topic recently:
"This problem with illegal immigration is nothing new. In fact, the Indians had a special name for it. They called it 'white people.'"
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH EVERYBODY?
What do you mean what the hells up with everybody, alot of poeple in here are sane its just the other half who have their heads up their ass that have something wrong with them.
hey ! @ree w! u m@N ! th!Nk 2 my $elf !f y@ll expect 2 h@ve @ word !N th!$ why r u guy talk!Ng out ur @sses?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! R u guy$ $er!0u$ly c@lm dowN w!t d@ !N$ult$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLE@$E ~eNe$~
bush is a racist. there you have the next hitler,
why this is happening?
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
ill tell why this is happening because the americans got tired of givn mexicans a chance yeah i am mexican but i gotz to understand that this is al really happening because most of my stupid fellow mexicans fucked up and just made all these arrors like gangs and so forth please all you latins please dont tell me its not true man all you know this is true and even though its hard we gotz to face it