As some of you may have noted my newest tagline at the end of my comments is the phrase, "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." And after more than a few questions about it I decided to describe what the quote means so that all things will become clear.
The quote itself has recently become popular because of a new video game, Assassin's Creed, which uses the quote as a tagline as well. The game deals with an ancient sect of assassin's whose leader, supposedly, first used the quote to his disciples. That is as historically accurate as possible however there is no real way to tell who said the quote first, it has been noted that the leader of the Hasshashin( original assassins) said the quote quite a bit. So that is the history lesson. Now on to my personal belief.
The meaning I take out of the quote can best be described by breaking it down into two pieces, first and second. The first, nothing is true- to me means that their is no absolute truth, no ONE answer. It means that there is never going to be THE answer to all life's questions. Truth is the collection of experiences and not answers found or told to you. And because there is no ONE answer, it is pointless to spend your life looking for one. Instead life is the answer. Living is the precious time you need to cherish and experience. That is what it really is, your own personal experience will form the answers for you.
The second, everything is permitted- to me is in direct correlation with the first. Because there is no answer, no perfect guideline for life, no rules on how to live, you(or I really) are responsible for all your(my) deeds. The only laws that truly matter are the ones in which I respect and obey. If I were to choose to kill someone for the fun of it, I would be responsible for that life, and that death, and all the reprucussions that come along with it. The rules are set by me, knowing that I am responsible for all my actions.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
Have a nice day
T
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Nothing is true (unless I suddenly find something I can't prove false), Everything is permitted (until Nick becomes world ruler)
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
"Nothing is true"
I am in complete disagreement with that one. I would say there is a truth about any question. The fact that we do not know what that fact is, or that we are wrong is not important to the existence of truth.
http://www.progressiveu.org/154720-love-the-truth
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"Everything is permitted"
I agree with that one, for reasons very similar to the ones you mentioned.
http://www.progressiveu.org/025304-cheating-is-good
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Considering the source I am glad I disagree with at least some of it. Hassasins were kept drugged up except when they were on a mission, so It should be no suprise their boss was telling them that reality was the fake, and their Hash dreams were real.
Again this is not the motivation or meaning that the Hashshashin most likely attrubuted to their definition. This is just what I take out of the quote. i would guess originally it was a way to allow the killing of people without a guilty concsious, however i've never heard that the Hashshashin were drugged. In fact most of what I've read reports that they were a very dilegent, honorable sect. However this is just what i think, nothing else.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
On the fact that the word hashish is reputed to have been the source of the name of this group, or not.
"The word assassin may have been derived from the Arabic word حشّاشين (haššāšīn), or "Hashshāshīn", the medieval Shia Islamic sect of militants founded by Hassan-i-Sabah in northern Iran. The Hashashin were allegedly inspired to commit murder under the influence of hashish (alternately, the term Hashashin may simply refer to followers of Hassan-i-Sabah.) The legend of hashish-eating assassins began with a vague mention by Marco Polo, and was embellished by 19th century French and American writers, fascinated by orientalism and eager to present hashish as a menace. The legend gained great popularity especially by Charles Baudelaire in his Artificial Paradises of 1857"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashish
No telling at this point. They were secretive for obvious reasons. Use of Hashish would not mean they lacked disipline, in fact its use as a reward, or sample of paradise might have been a powerful motivational tool.
"Nothing is true"
well, so long as the statement includes itself.
"Truth is the collection of experiences and not answers found or told to you."
thanks for "telling" me. do you believe what you are saying is "true"?
i can't tell whether you're ascribing to relativism or nihilism, or denying the existance of truth alltogether. not trying to be mean, but these are some serious questions you are going to face later on in the future.
I do believe, sir, that you missed the point.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
then could you explain it to me please, because i agree that i must be, and probably am, missing something, otherwise these points are "absolute" poo. thanks.
so i'm asking you, explain to me what these points are talking about.
Well since I could probably do it better than Nick can, but thanks for sticking up for me bud, mind if I give it a try Dan?
The point of the blog wasn't to "tell" you anything. The point of the blog was to let you know part of my belief system.
And I suppose these "serious questions you are going to face later on in the future" i'm actually facing now, hence me forming this opinion. My "problems" are probably similar to virtually everyone else's....why are we here, what is my purpose, who am i.
I in no way was trying to "teach" or "tell" you anything, simply letting whoever wanted to know about the quote on the bottom of my comments
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
first off, thanks for taking the time to explain, it's really apprecieated.
the thing if have a problem with is the "nothing is true" part. first i'll take it for what it says, then i'll deal with relativism.
if nothing is true you can either include or exclude the statement from it's own set parameters of denying all truth. if you include the statement, then that statement also becomes not true thereby making the existance of truth real. if you exclude the statement, they you've posited an absolute while denying everyone else the privilage. this means you've created your very own little truth bubble. in othe words, you've essentially said that individual perception doesn't percieve reality, individual perception is reality. (this borders nihilism). You've basically said that there is no unknowns, unless individal perception is actually split between a higher and lower conciousness. you being the lower, but still unknowingly, being the higher as well.
or you could mean something like the matrix....but even then you have the cause behind the matrix to deal with.
or you could be refering to "all truth is relative". exclude the statement, same bubble world results, (i just don't feel like typing it all again). include the statement, and the statement "all truth is relative" is also relative, further meaning that it is sometimes both true, and untrue. meaning that truth exists and sometimes doesn't exist. you've split reality in two.
if tthis is not what you're talking please disregard all the above. but maby now you understand where i'm coming from and what i want you to explain. and i'm not interested in a debate, i'm just curious. tell me what you mean, and i'll leave you alone. i've learned that if people want to learn, they will. that's why i'm not going to debate you. i'll just tell you to examin your beliefs, don't take yourself so seriously, be at least halfway tolerent of other belief systems,and, honestly, examine other beliefs without such extreme bias as "My God's dick is bigger than your God's dick" ( http://www.progressiveu.org/173542-it-isnt-about-muslims#comment-220582 )
especially if you don't know what you're talking about. do you know what you're talking about based on your belief system?
just pleas explain what you mean.
thanks.
You didn't like the dick quote? I thought it summed up religious wars in a nutshell pretty well, o well, to each his own.
As for explaining myself, I thought that was what the blog was for. I don't take the quote in a real sense or an epistomolical one. The quote means what I said it means above.
Nothing is true- There is no ONE answer. No way to know everything and anything. Searching for such an answer is pointless, to me, b/c I don't think it exists. Instead live in the moment, live for the moment, don't live at all, I don't care. Life experiences and the world around you can provide you with the "answers" you need and nothing else.(Again what I believe, not teaching anything)
Everything is Permitted- Because nothing is true, in the context I describe, anything goes. US laws apply to me b/c I choose to abide by them, if I didn't choose that then they wouldn't. Instead I become responsible for MY actions. The gov't tells me not to steal, but that isn't why I don't steal. The gov't tells me not to drink, but that isn't why I don't drink. Instead MY choices are my responsibilty and no one else's.
I've read the bible cover to cover, I've read the Koran cover to cover, I've read Hindu literature and teachings from the Buddha. I am double majoring in Political Science and Religious Studies, so I know enough on the subjects to get me by. So yes, I know what I'm talking about. Do I understand the world and everything I'm talking about, not at all. One can never stop learning.
Hope that helped. I don't want you to leave me alone Dan, just want to answer your questions.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
"Hope that helped. I don't want you to leave me alone Dan, just want to answer your questions."
...) but i don't think anyone learns anything from them, so eh.
fine, but no verbal power matches (even though i'm very good at these and word games
so if you want to answer my questions, then i want to ask them.
"There is no ONE answer."
what question(s) are you refering to? and by "one answer" are you implying a totality in answer or not? what i mean is are you denying the possibility of absolutely Knowing all, absolutely knowing something, or absolutely knowing anything?
"Searching for such an answer is pointless, to me, b/c I don't think it exists. "
so, do you consider this your answer?
do you ascribe primarily to either "either or" or "both and" (it's pretty obvious which i am.) because you seem to jump between the two.
"Instead live in the moment, live for the moment, don't live at all, I don't care. "
are you refering to humanism? live for the pleasure of the moment?
"Life experiences and the world around you can provide you with the "answers" you need and nothing else."
define "world around you". what does that include, not include? because generally i would take "world around you" to mean "everything" experienced. but i get the slight feeling you mean something else.
"Again what I believe, not teaching anything"
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whether you are teaching or not is not up to you. it's up to whoever wants to learn. me.
you are teaching. also, whatever i want to learn is up to me aswell.
"I've read the bible cover to cover, I've read the Koran cover to cover, I've read Hindu literature and teachings from the Buddha. I am double majoring in Political Science and Religious Studies, so I know enough on the subjects to get me by. So yes, I know what I'm talking about. Do I understand the world and everything I'm talking about, not at all. One can never stop learning."
ok, so, and i've been passionately studying philosophy since i was 9 years old.
you seem pretty sure of yourself.
nah, you don't know what you're talking about. you know, if you have to tell me all this stuff about yourself, you must already realize this. saying your a college student doesn't mean anything. I know plenty of stupid college students. (not saying you are one.
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i just don't understand how you can consider true the statement: "nothing is true"?
you said that you don't consider this in the "real" or "epistomolical" sense. what do you consider it, because the meaning you gave is full of contradictions.
if you like contradictions just say so, it doesn't bother me. i just want to know what you're talking about. like i said, discussion, no debating.
and btw
"Searching for such an answer is pointless, to me, b/c I don't think it exists."
if you don't think this answer exists why don't you look for another answer?
you seem to have set this up as an answer. do you consider it a true or not true answer?
thanx
again, i'm not trying to debate, just answer the questions, and any q's u have i'll gladly answer. if you want me to stop asking, just tell me. it's just, i've never heard anyone try to logically explain this sort of belief(seen it before, if it's what i think it is. it's very prevelent. if it's what i think it is, it's sorta the cultural mood of today.) , and i'm experimenting.
thanx
Wow that's a lot of questions. I'll do the best I can but will end up missing somehting.
1. "absolutely Knowing all" This is what I mean. A person, myself, will never know everything b/c I will keep experiencing new things everyday, and that is where answers are derived, from our experiences.
2. No I don't think that this is my answer. Merely motivation for not settling on an answer. Keep living and keep questioning and experiencing and learning.
3. "do you ascribe primarily to either "either or" or "both and" (it's pretty obvious which i am.) because you seem to jump between the two." I don't know what you mean by this please elaborate/make more clear for me.
4.are you refering to humanism? live for the pleasure of the moment? I'm not familar with humanism in any detailed way, so I have no idea. Live for the pleasure of the moment sounds ok, but I don't know any details beyond that.
5.ok, so, and i've been passionately studying philosophy since i was 9 years old. Congrats.
6. nah, you don't know what you're talking about. Ok I don't really know what your refering to here. Do I know everything about my beliefs and positions, no they are always changing and adapting. Do I know everything about religion and politics no, but I'm also sure I know enough to have intelligent conversations about both. Do I understand the world and all its cool lil conundrums, nope and don't claim too.
7. i just don't understand how you can consider true the statement: "nothing is true"? Again I'll refer you back to the original post. I have a belief about the statement "nothing is true," and those beliefs I think are true(true to me, as in-true to myself, i'm not lying about these thoughts to myself). The statement is a short and sweet way of eclipsing the meaning. The statement, to me, means there is no one answer and I should always be looking, learning, from my experiences.
8. if you don't think this answer exists why don't you look for another answer? Read above. I always am trying to look and learn and experience. Does that mean I'm any smarter, nope, but at least I'm learning. Some questions have answers, others don't. We have a limited time on earth and searching for the ALL KNOWING/ALL TELLING ANSWERS seems a bit of a waste to me.
I prolly missed what you wanted but there was a lot there. Lastly, I think your diving much deeper into the quote than I ever did. It's a quote, not my quote, not a relativley new quote. However what I took out of the quote was something that is hard to explain, obvious since your so confused. Anyways your looking for a philsophical answer when there isn't really one I have thought of. Your asking me questions that I'm not sure the answers of, I'm searching for the answers and this is just the best I got right now.
As for being sure of myself...appearances are decieving.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
"I prolly missed what you wanted but there was a lot there. Lastly, I think your diving much deeper into the quote than I ever did. It's a quote, not my quote, not a relativley new quote. However what I took out of the quote was something that is hard to explain, obvious since your so confused. Anyways your looking for a philsophical answer when there isn't really one I have thought of. Your asking me questions that I'm not sure the answers of, I'm searching for the answers and this is just the best I got right now. "
and that's ok, just keep digging. i don't think anyone has ever reached the other side unless they were already from the other side. just always keep digging.
"I don't know what you mean by this please elaborate/make more clear for me."
i basically, in a way, meant that in some instances you assumed a truth in reality while at the same time denying that truth even exists.
I think i understand where you are comming from now anyway. i think it's horribly flawed, but i think i understand.
" I'm not familar with humanism in any detailed way, so I have no idea. Live for the pleasure of the moment sounds ok, but I don't know any details beyond that."
humanism is a philosophy that usually denies the possibility of any higher power or rather just doesn't care. it basically sets man up as the standard for everything, all truth.... helping people, pleasure, and "living for the moment" is everything.
it was great talking with you, thanks for answering my questions.
"As for being sure of myself...appearances are decieving."
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well, actions are quite telling. if you havn't figured it out by now, i'm christian. in the future if you could phrase better your comments concerning my God in a "dick off" competition it would be apprecieated.
thanx, and i'm going to bed.