I am fairly certain that everyone can agree that no one is perfect. I know I'm not! In fact, I know that the Bible says I am not, nor is anyone. So, if you don't believe the Bible and you have agreed with the first sentence of this post, you at least agree with one thing that the Bible says (actually you agree with several things that the Bible says because it says this several times). In fact, the Bible mentions the sin of humankind in almost every book of the Bible! So, if you believe that you are not perfect, you believe in the Bible more than you knew! Here are just a few examples:
Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."
Isaiah 64:6a "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags." (This includes EVERYONE, so we have no right to judge others; see my post entitled "Stop Judging Others; Examine Yourself").
Romans 3:9-10 "What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written, 'There is no one righteous, not even one."
These are just a few examples that talk about the sinfulness and imperfection of human kind. We certainly can determine that we do not live in a perfect world; otherwise we would not need sites like progressiveu to improve our mindsets. We would already be as progressive as we can be. We would not need jails and prisons to house criminals who have committed rape and murder. Therefore, we have to at least conclude that the Bible is correct when it says that all have fallen short of perfection. Thank goodness that the other part of that verse is also true: "For the wages of sin is death, BUT the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." For those of you who are questioning the Bible, you already believe the first part of that verse. Now you need to work on believing the second part, which is the part that is hopeful and eternal
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You said "So, if you believe that you are not perfect, you believe in the Bible more than you knew!"
That is just ridiculous! First of all, people had morals and ethics long before the bible or Christianity came along. So for you to say that just because someone believes that they aren't perfect somehow means that they believe in the bible is just plain dumb.
The bible is 1500 to 2000 years old at best...do you actually believe that the people who lived before Jesus and the bible ran around and killed each other at will? NO! They didn't! BTW, Hindu started before Christianity. So if you want to compare the ethics and morals of the 5 world religions, then why don't you start with Hinduism?
"Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."
That is definitely one of the many reasons why I left Christianity. I can not and will not believe that my child or any child is born with sin.
"Isaiah 64:6a "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags." (This includes EVERYONE, so we have no right to judge others; see my post entitled "Stop Judging Others; Examine Yourself")."
For someone who isn't supposed to judge, your post sure seem to do so.
Also, I see that you have some verses here from the Old Testament. Are you saying that you follow the Old Testament as well as the New? If so, then do you believe Deuteronomy 22: 28-29 "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. 29 Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."?
Just checking. Can't pick and choose now.
"Therefore, we have to at least conclude that the Bible is correct when it says that all have fallen short of perfection."
The bible is nothing more than a carbon copy of stories, rules, morals, ethics, etc...of religions and spirituality practices that pre-dated it, but it is most definitely not correct about numerous things.
Tabias-
"...but it is most definitely not correct about numerous things." But you still believe it is correct about some things? I thought it was you who said that you cannot pick and choose. Do you believe it is wrong to murder, steal, commit adultery, judge others, and harbor jealousy? Then you believe in part of the Bible and not the whole thing, correct? This is exactly what you said I should not do, and yet that is exactly what you are doing.
Yes, I believe in the entire Bible. I believe it in the New Testament when it says that Jesus Christ came to establish the New Covenant, thereby releasing the Israelites from many of the sacrificial laws that they needed to keep before Jesus Christ came to be the perfect sacrifice for all sins. So, do I think that it is wrong to wear certain types of cloth (as forbidden in the Old Testament) or only eat certain types of food? No, because Jesus Christ came to set us free from that Covenant and establish one that is built on the two greatest commandments: Love God, Love People.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
And yet... you don't see Jews sacrificing anything today....
And there is a huge difference between having some morals that just happen to also be in the Bible and deciding that you believe the Bible was god-inspired, and yet only following parts of it.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
1)Point well taken
2)Also true, but at least everyone can agree with part of what the Bible has to say.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
"I thought it was you who said that you cannot pick and choose. Do you believe it is wrong to murder, steal, commit adultery, judge others, and harbor jealousy? Then you believe in part of the Bible and not the whole thing, correct? This is exactly what you said I should not do, and yet that is exactly what you are doing."
Yes, I did say that you can't pick and choose and I still stand by my comment. And the things that you mentioned are wrong...to Christians and to many others, but not to everyone. Not all societies and cultures believe that adultery and/or stealing are wrong. For the sake of this discussion, we'll say that those things are all wrong, but those things were wrong before the bible ever said so, and that is what I was trying to say.
You don't have to believe in the bible to have morals and ethics. The bible came long after morals and ethics were established. The Roman Empire was around before the bible and the Romans were the most sophisticated people on the planet at the time. Do you actually believe that the Roman Empire didn't have morals and ethics?
The bible is nothing more than a bunch of stories with some historical data here and there and it is not, nor was it ever the sole source of morals and ethics.
Tabias-
There are many better examples of people believing in things the bible says. the Good Book is more than just a good book, it often provides accurate feelings of historical events. If I were telling someone they believed in the Bibles I would start with more than just conceptual ideas like sin and perfection ideas that require faith, ¥ would start with proven history.
¥ <==That's cool, what is it!?
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
I agree, that is cool! What is that? I don't think I have that on my keyboard or maybe I do, and I never knew it! Kind of like God always having been there, but people never knowing it! Oh boy, it is late and I am starting to think way too deeply....
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
[-( Chelle says it's the symbol for Yen, which is essentially Chinese (possibly Japanese) money.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Ok, feeling pretty stupid considering that I used to live in Hong Kong when I was little....but I suppose I will have to blame it on the lateness of the hour and the little amount of sleep I have had in the past several nights and the serious sinus infection I have. Yeah, those all sound like good excuses for me not to recognize something I saw pretty much every day of my life for two and a half years. lol.....=) I didn't realize how silly I get after midnight.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
I love that smiley. Just had to say that.
Here you go, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%A5
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
You are absolutely correct. History is backed by the Bible and so is science and astronomy and medicine and so many other things. I just wanted to start out simply, though. I will certainly get to these other things as well, but if you happen to beat me to it, let me know so I can read your post! =)
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Not quite. There are lots of times when the history is streched, false, and just not at the right time. It also hints at the world being flat. It calls witches real. Some bibles claim that medicine is the devils magic. And the bible is typically pointed to when we find a scientific explaination that's better than what's offered by the bible and call the science false.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Wait a second. How do you know that the history is not correct? Because of what modern interpretations say about the past? Why would an ancient book lie about what was going on in history if the goal of the book is to be considered accurate? After all, since the Bible was written closer to the time of the actual historical events, don't you think it would be more accurate than other more modern sources, many of which are simply out to prove the Bible wrong? Every single time the Bible is attempted to be proven wrong, the truth of God's Word comes out in the end. Just one example for you. Historical researchers tried to say for years that the statue that was spoken about in Daniel that was made in resemblance of King Nebuchadnezzar simply did not exist because they could never find it. Guess what? They found the statue and it was exactly as described in the book of Daniel! This is just one of the thousands of examples that the Bible is accurate.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
I'll type more later, but for now:
If you consider "ancient" only 2000 years old, I'm afraid we've got a problem.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Did I ever say 2000? Yes, that is about when the time of Christ was but there was a whole history before Jesus Christ came to earth.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
The NT is only like 1900 years old. Less, actually. The OT goes back to the Torah which only covers from something from New Kingdom Egypt to....hundreds of years before Jesus. Obviously, I'm a little behind in memorizing the bible, lol. Either way, there are lots of gaps and holes. For instance, there are 18 years missing from Jesus' life.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Also, as per Daniel, the following blogs offer evidence against the Book of Daniel.
http://www.progressiveu.org/144926-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-is-a-for...
http://www.progressiveu.org/115341-daniel-is-a-forgery-chapter-1-daniel-...
http://www.progressiveu.org/131001-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-and-nebu...
http://www.progressiveu.org/114050-skeptical-bible-study-shadrach-mescha...
http://www.progressiveu.org/083011-skeptical-bible-study-chapter-4-danie...
http://www.progressiveu.org/155209-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-chapter-...
http://www.progressiveu.org/170336-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-chapter-...
http://www.progressiveu.org/132214-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-chapter-...
http://www.progressiveu.org/150906-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-chapter-...
http://www.progressiveu.org/103755-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-chap-9-t...
http://www.progressiveu.org/230114-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-chaps-10...
http://www.progressiveu.org/223119-skeptical-bible-study-daniel-is-a-for...
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
People have attacked the book of Daniel for years, but more and more evidence is being presented in the defense of the book of Daniel. But thanks, I will have to take a look at these blogs sometime...but not tonight though. I am far too tired....=)
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
i'm not even gonna start on you.... but i'm not a christian.. i'm gnastic. look it up.
idk if you were trying or if it just came off that way, but it sounds like you're trying to convert ppl. i don't like that. you should find a different hobby
-velvet
Gnastic? Do you worship those itty bitty flies?
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Gnastic, huh?
If you mean gnostic, it would be helpful if you spelled it right if you want people to look it up.
If you meant agnostic, same argument... you should be able to spell your religion if you want people to look it up because you're not willing to explain.
Why comment if you're "not even going to start" on her? Why post what your religion (gnastic?) is if you don't have a point, you're not willing to explain, and it does nothing to argue against MissionsMinded's faith and/or blog post?
Maybe it wasn't a typo or a misspelling... maybe you worship the producer, Gnastic?
Sorry if this sounds rude. I'm just being a little sarcastic. But please, enlighten us on Gnasticism? Or Gnosticism? Or whatever religion it is you're talking about?
I really am curious.
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If You Swear That There's No Truth And Who Cares, How Come You Say It Like You're Right? [Bright Eyes]
http://progressiveu.org/143541-how-to-survive-the-2008-elections
Agreeing with ideas in the Bible does not mean that I, or anybody agrees with the Bible as a whole or should take anything that they don't agree with seriously within the Bible. The acceptance of a single idea within a book, one that is essentially universal like, do not murder, has no bearing on my belief in the rest of the book.
Were this an argument for the universal, basic appeal of th Bible to human nature it might have been a good and interesting blog, but instead it is just some lame mind fuck. A poor attempt to somehow trick us into believing that because we think stealing and murder is wrong that we should embrace the rest of the Bible. Even more frightening you want us to believe that because most of us believe that we have fallen short of perfection at points in our lives that we should buy into the idea of original sin.
The Bible has ideas in it that I agree with, doesn't mean that I believe in the Bible as a holy text or even a decent moral compass overall.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principles."
I never claimed that anyone believed in it as a Holy Book or God's Inspired Word (even though it is despite what you believe); I merely said as you did in your comment. There are ideas in the Bible that you agree with...that's all.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
"So, if you believe that you are not perfect, you believe in the Bible more than you knew!", which tells me that you're saying that we "believe" in the bible just because we agree with some of the things in it. There are some good messages in the Harry Potter books / movies as well. Does that mean that I "believe" in Harry Potter too?
Tabias-
Exactly.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principles."
"So, if you believe that you are not perfect, you believe in the Bible more than you knew!"
Or maybe we have something called common sense! :D ...seriously, think about it.
That blog is so full of crap (theres no nice way I can say it), I rated it a 3 because I'm nice, I mean jeez what happened... you use to write about your religion in a better way when you first joined the site, that I can remember so far...that or I have terrible memory :)
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"Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings."
Good post. I agree with you, and am glad to see I am not the only one on here that believes the Bible is true and worth following.