I have been greatly enraged over United States citizens burning the United States flag during protests. This affends me as an American who takes pride in the historical significance of the flag set forth by our founding fathers. If you have a problem with this country, either change it or move out. There are over 100 nations willing to acccept you. Just because the president makes a bad decision doesn't call for outright disrespect for the nation. In my opinion if you are burning the U.S. flag then you do not deserve to live here end of story.
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Hmm... Your arguement didn't convince me of anything except that people can be annoying... Now Bra Burning... THAT is a good time!
Bras are expensive.
hahaha!!! that was funny!!!
other than what others have been saying; they can do whatever they want. It is only a piece of cloth and i wonder why people pledge allegiance to a flag??? or is that only me??? I'm just saying for example if somebody says i'm gonna shoot you or the flag what's it gonna be??? i'm gonna say it's gonna have to be the flag. at times, i've felt like America, what are you doing??? and like somebody else has said, Bush hasn't spilled milk, he's costing taxpayer's billions of dollars for this war that i don't see having an end. he has hundreds of soldiers losing their lives every month; and the ones that do come back are so fucked up they can't live a normal civilian life. I mean, come on, something has to change...
First of all, the burning of the American Flag, at least in the context that YOU IDENTIFY, is part of trying to make a change.
Second of all, I don't care how patriotic you are. I don't care how easily offended you are. A flag is a piece of cloth...nothing more. Anybody can see that. If you aren't willing to take it easy and see that however hostile and unreasonable the act may be, that it is purely an act of free speech, and freedom of expression (BASICALLY THE FOUNDATION OF THIS COUNTRY), than maybe you should be the one to move out. I'm sure that there are hundreds of nations willing to take in your kind...like Iran.
I understand that burning the flag degrades the history of it but in the end it is only a flag and their actions as long as they are not hurting you or anyone else should not have an effect on you. For them it is a way of expression, not one that makes sense to me, but that does not matter. And you cannot say the president makes a bad decision as if he spilled milk, many people, myself included, feel he has made multiple bad decisions putting America in a bit of a bind, not to mention the series of president's before him that have made bad decisions. Flag burning allows these people to get out what they feel, and i am not sure they are anti-american because they burn the flag, rather they disagree with governmental policies. If they were anti-american than maybe they should leave this country but people tend to get anti-american and politically concerned confused now a days. It seems like the anti-americanism is slapped on anyone who disagrees with a majority. George Bush Jr. "you're either with us or with the terrorists" (something along those lines) made it so that anyone who did not support the war was anti-american when really they were just opposed to the war, HUGE difference. Anyway, flag burning is not the best way to get yourself heard, but it is one way and i completely understand why people burn it. Besides it is only a symbol, nothing more.
Angelo Haidaris
Well, sad to say, but it's a freedom of speech
Flag burning is a form of political speech which is obviously freedom of speech. If it's done in a peaceful manner then there is nothing wrong with it other than the fact that the thought of flags burning is ripping you another a-hole. You know people are going to have a different opinion than you sometime right? To you it may seem that burning the flag is a disrespect to the nation, but have you ever talked to the people that are actually burning the flags instead of trying to pack their luggage and kick them out of the country? People burn flags because they're upset with a political policy, not because they hate the nation. Some people just burn flags for the sole reason that they have the right to. Then ofcourse there are the boyscouts that burn flags, but I really don't think they're doing it out of protest.
I don't think I have a problem with this country at all, especially not with the first amendment. Overall, it seems that you have the problem with freedom of speech; you want people to move out of the country because they're voicing their opinion.
i agree
Straight up, the founding fathers did not "set forth" the flag, nor the "historical significance" thereof.
Regardless, think of it this way: they just burned a flag that they spent money on. A flag is a symbol of this nation, not of the freedoms or whatever, so when you burn it, you are protesting the bad as well as the good.
Plus, it seems like a pretty effective protest since it got you all riled up.
--Mike
The flag was used by the colonials in our revolution led by George Washington as a sign of independence from the Brits. Although it did not have 50 stars, it only had 13 at the time.
I have a nice conservative view on the matter. Consider it arson and ban the practice all together. And yes in my state it is a crime to even be present when an unsanctioned firestarting activity is occuring. I know of certain people who could have recieved 20 years in state prison for simply being present at a fire starting.
Except arson is the burning of another's dwelling (that doesn't necessarily mean home) with intent and malice. Don't even talk about changing the meaning of arson.
--Mike
let me remind you of the first amendment of the constituion the right of peaceful protest and assembly, burning a flag is hardly peaceful.
Arson is not necessarily the burning of a dwelling. Arson is intentionally starting a fire in order to destroy something not neccesarilly a dwelling. A forest fire is not a dwelling, a dumpster is not a dwelling. These are punishable offenses by law.
Actually, burning a flag falls within the category of peaceful. basically, its peaceful as long as people don't get hurt. Also, burning a flag should not be Arson because it ends at the flag. When you burn something that doesn't belong to you, you are committing vandalism. If you burn your house to get insurance, that's fraud. If you burn your flag, you're making a point and that should not be illegal.
So if I had a picture of an ex and I burned it I'd be guilty of arson?
-Tim
"It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true." -Avett Bros.
According to the US gov't and the top 10 universities in America, yes it would be.
From the FBI:
Any willful or malicious burning or attempt to burn, with or without intent to defraud, a dwelling house, public building, motor vehicle or aircraft, personal property of another, etc.
From Princeton University:
malicious burning to destroy property;
Oxford Dictionary:
the criminal act of deliberately setting fire to property.
You may want to brush up on your semantics buddy.
The FBI definition I'll give you, but I really don't care what a university says as far as law.
The FBI is totally flawed though, because by that definition me burning firewood I'd be committing arson.
-Tim
"It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true." -Avett Bros.
Only if you didn't own the firewood, or used a house or public building as firewood.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Key word there: "personal property of another. Someone else's property. If the person is burning their own flag, then it isn't arson. Now, if they stole yours and burned it, that's another story.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
"If you have a problem with this country, either change it or move out."
If this is how you feel, I would humbly suggest that perhaps you should be the one to consider moving, since freedom of speech, and specifically the protection of unpopular political speech and expression, is one of the central principles upon which our Nation is founded.
To quote the United States Supreme Court in the famous case of Texas v. Johnson (1989)...
> If there is a bedrock principle underlying the
> First Amendment, it is that the government may
> not prohibit the expression of an idea simply
> because society finds the idea itself offensive
> or disagreeable. We have not recognized an
> exception to this principle even where our flag
> has been involved....In short, nothing in our
> precedents suggests that a State may foster its
> own view of the flag by prohibiting expressive
> conduct relating to it.
> ...
> We never before have held that the Government
> may ensure that a symbol be used to express only
> one view of that symbol or its referents.
> ...
> To conclude that the government may permit
> designated symbols to be used to communicate
> only a limited set of messages would be to
> enter territory having no discernible or
> defensible boundaries. Could the government,
> on this theory, prohibit the burning of state
> flags? Of copies of the Presidential seal? Of
> the Constitution? In evaluating these choices
> under the First Amendment, how would we decide
> which symbols were sufficiently special to
> warrant this unique status? To do so, we would
> be forced to consult our own political preferences,
> and impose them on the citizenry, in the very
> way that the First Amendment forbids us to do.
> ...
> We can imagine no more appropriate response
> to burning a flag than waving one's own, no
> better way to counter a flag burner's message
> than by saluting the flag that burns, no surer
> means of preserving the dignity even of the
> flag that burned than by -- as one witness here
> did -- according its remains a respectful burial.
> We do not consecrate the flag by punishing its
> desecration, for in doing so we dilute the
> freedom that this cherished emblem represents.
>
> http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/texasvjohnson.ht...
My father died defending this country, and I have always exercised the utmost respect whenever I encounter our flag. Attitudes like the one you have expressed, however, make me wonder if perhaps I SHOULD burn a flag, just to insure that its TRUE meaning is preserved from the well-meaning but short-shighted people who are destroying the very freedoms that the flag is supposed to represent.
percivale
As much as I dislike people burning the flag, it is their freedom to do so. I think there are better things to burn than the flag, considering that is a huge symbol for the country. But if they want to go ahead and burn the flag, fine. Just stay out of my neighborhood when you do it.
"Just stay out of my neighborhood when you do it."
That's just like saying stay out of my country.
Rome didn't fall in a day
Hardly. My neighborhood isn't the whole country. Basically it's meant to mean, go ahead and burn the flag, but I'm gonna give you my two cents about it if I see you.