Why should marijuana be legal?
- People have a basic right to make choices for themselves as long as their actions do not harm others.
Responsible individuals in a free society should be allowed to choose whether or not they use marijuana. Individual liberty is a fundamental value. - The government is wasting our time and money by prohibiting marijuana.
Taxpayers are forced to pay billions of dollars to persecute, prosecute, and incarcerate people for having marijuana. If marijuana were legal and regulated (like alcohol and tobacco) this money, plus tax revenues from marijuana sales, could be used for other purposes such as education and health care. - Prohibition is not an effective solution to the problems associated with marijuana use.
Marijuana, like tobacco and alcohol, can be abused. But prohibition is expensive and ineffective; education and regulation are better solutions. Regulating sales of marijuana and teaching people the truth about its health effects will allow us to minimize the harms and costs to society. - We have learned a lesson from history.
Alcohol prohibition did not work, and there is no logical reason to believe that marijuana prohibition is a better idea.
...but even after knowing these facts I am still iffy about it being legal...why i dont know...maybe its because i already see how stupid people are getting know a days and it does kill brain cells...or maybe its because of my past with it
what do you think?




Maybe you should ask, Why should we keep Marijuana Illegal instead?
Alcohol can cause liver damage or even death. Tobacco can cause lung cancer, emphazema, and death.
Marijuana, on the other hand...
"has often been touted as one of the SAFEST recreational substances available. This is perhaps true; many reputable scientific studies support the conclusion that cocaine, heroine, alcohol, and even cigarettes are more dangerous to the user’s health than marijuana. In addition, the celebrated pharmacological properties of cannabis have led thirty-six states to permit its use as a therapeutic drug for, among others, those suffering from AIDS; various painful, incurable and debilitating illnesses; the harmful side effects of cancer chemotherapy, and glaucoma. Additional research is being conducted concerning the use of marijuana on the treatment of anxiety and mental disorders."
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
Now as marijuana as medicine...the debate is still out. The link posted goes further to explain the "possible" (I say possible because not enough study has been done to effectively conclude anything) negative effects of marijuana when used as a medicine. The concern is marijuana's decreasing of the immune system. To treat AIDS, cancer or other such diseases a patients immune system is already compromised and adding marijuana could open such a person to a deadly infection.
As for negative effects on the recreational smoker...
"The main respiratory consequences of smoking marijuana regularly (one joint a day) are pulmonary infections and respiratory cancer, whose connection to marijuana use has been strongly suggested but not conclusively proven."
-and-
"Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia."
Why are we still putting people in jail???????
actually, I'm fairly sure it has been found to be cruel and unusual punishment to put somebody in jail for being addicted to a drug. Thus, only specific actions are crimes anymore (trafficking, posession).
True. But as a recreational (read responsible) user you can still be jailed/fined. I think we should follow Mexico's example and allow small amounts of possession legal. The real problem are dealers and/or the crime surrounding drug trafficking. The fellow around the block who smokes weed at home to relax shouldn't be punished if he can be responsible (much like alcohol).
I don't support the use of marijuana. I have no prob w/ it becoming legal. The same ppl that use it r going to continue to use it. They can get it illegally anyway.
Hold your breath for a couple seconds there. You're killing brain cells.
Marijuana, among other drugs, should be legal. I'm not saying that I want to do every drug there is, but who am I to censor what another person wants to do to their body.
You're right; you can tax the hell out of marijuana. Cigarettes have tax; there wouldn't be any reason that marijuana wouldn't.
The war on drugs is a joke. Obviously doing drugs doesn't mean you are going to fail in life. President Bush was snorting coke! Clinton smoked pot, even if he argues he didn't inhale. =)
I agree that some people "get stupid" when they're smoking. But if we turn around and offer them some alcohol, chances are they're going to "get stupid" with that.
I do think that one reason marijuana remains illegal while alcohol is legally sold everyday is the issue with driving under the influence. When a person is drunk and gets pulled over the officer can use a test to see the percentage of alcohol the person has consumed to see if its under the legal limit or what not. With marijuana, if a person high gets pulled over the officer can't tell how much they consumed. But maybe the solution to this is just give the person a DUI if they have signs that they are still high.
I honestly think that marijuana is safer than alcohol!
Marijuana kills brain cells because of how people smoke it; inhale as much as possible, hold it in for as long as possible, then let it out. More brain cells are killed holding one's breath than by the THC itself.
I will not deny that marijuana can have deleterous consequences to those who are not mature enough to use it safely. Also, the smoking of marijuana can cause respiratory problems. However, everyone likes to take a break from life every once in a while-some drink, some eat, some smoke pot. Such is life.
The government is spending too much money on the war on drugs, and if all of that money was filtered into treatment and prevention programs, or maybe even just general education, the "problem" with drugs would be lessened. If not, oh well. If someone is stupid enough to destroy their lives with alcohol, marijuana, or crack, whatever, they should be allowed to do it. Treatment options should be made available to those who wish to break the cycle, however.
The act of actually smoking it indeed does kill brain cells but a recent experiment held at the University of Oregon revealed that "the consumption of cannabis does not kill brain cells." Holding the smoke in your lungs will cause a lack of oxygen to your brain but, there are other ways to get high with marijuana. I am obviously for the legalization of marijuana and, I know that when it is first legalized on a state level, Oregon will most definitely be the first state to do it.
When you look at such a topic as this, it seems rediculous that this is illegal while alcohol and ciggarettes are. It is not a gateway drug(this has been discredited due to poeple taking legal drugs ie. caffeine, sugar, energy drinks), you can not overdose from it, and the NIDA says you can get as many cancer causing chemicals as smoking a pack a day if you SMOKE 5 JOINTS A DAY! Most people use it recreationally, and false reports that scare people are the main reason it still isnt legal.
What were the other ways you were refering to, to get high from marijuana?
Just one -- you can cook marijuana into food to release the thc and the results are astounding. Ever heard of pot brownies, etc? Same concept, but it doesn't have to be brownies -- that is just a common recipe made with marijuana.
Oh yeah...duh! didn't know why I didn't think of that I've heard of them before.
Very good observation cweidner0! I completely agree with you!
The stigma we have about drugs in America is a strange thing. First of all the legality of drugs is not based on any real sense of concern for the american people. For example, nicotine is more addictive than heroin. Excessive use of alcohol is much more damaging to the human body than the excessive use of marijuania. And caffeine (which is not even age restricted) has way more harmful side-effects than most people even realize when they begin useing it. (it is also very addicitive, talk to someon ne who has quit drinking coffee after being a regular user) A good place to look when deciding you stance on the legality of specific substances is the history of their criminalization. Pot for example was criminalized as a political tool to supress the counterculture durning the veitnam war. Pot become assocaited with rebellious youth and the criminalization of it was a political move, rather than one intended to protect the american people.
Oleirer, how true! You have brought up some extremely good points!
Sorry i cant agree with this one. And im part jamaican. (no point to my comment; just irony). I was the step son of a crack head he ruined our lives. People say that we as people should have the rights to do anything.
You are forgeting one group of people, children. In todays society these are the only group of people who have little or no rights because its given to the parent. What if the kid's parent is a smoker, he/she has no right to find another place to live because of the fact that he has terrible asthma probally caused by this smoking. When that parent is an alcholic that child has little hope to escape if there is nowhere to run. If that child has parents who are crack heads. The environment alone can kill that childs spirit. There is no protection for these things for children. The fewest laws and ammendments are those that protect our children. Atleast this law prohibits it. Pot heads hold few good characteristics. Shouldnt a child have a choice on whether they live in this enviroment; Well, only a few do. Mabey my logics wrong. But you dont know until you experience it People worry to much about now and make decisions not considering the future. Look at financial aid. I'm not allowed to even get near it I live on my own and my parents refuse to sign any paperwork that might ensure my future. And whats the state excuse for me not being able to be independant all though i independently take care of myself. "oh, sorry you are not 24 , until then legally you are still under the supervision of your parents."
Parents not only screw up there lives but also the lives of children.
Any drug legal or illegal is used to release oneself from minute problems. These problems can be handle without the aid of any substance that alters the mind
Im budhist also so, My mental health is important to me. Its my way of life.
I've known lots of parents who use marijuana and lots of parents who don't. There is no relationship between the use of marijuana and the quality of parenting. A good parent can smoke a joint every day and they will still be a good parent. A bad parent can be completely drug-free and they will still be a bad parent. There are certainly drugs that will change a good parent into a bad parent, but marijuana isn't one of them, any more than caffeine. Probably less llikely to do so than caffeine.
Your logic is indeed wrong. You have concluded the relationship between your parents use of marijuana and the way they treat you is one of cause and effect, when it is instead correlational. They are both caused by the same thing; the one is not the cause of the other.
Cannabis is a bronchodilator, which is why some asthmatics find it is a more effective treatment for an asthma attack than the legal drugs prescribed by their doctors. It is also an effective treatment for anxiety, which is probably why your parents use it and other drugs. Anxiety is not a minute problem. It screws up people's lives.
You can't compare a crackhead to a stoner. That's like comparing murder to spanking.
On the subject of kids. Kids are born into shit situations all over the world. I can think of countless drug free households who should never have been allowed to have kids. Don't mix up bad parents who happen to smoke weed with parents who are bad because of it.
If you believe prohibition to be a viable solution then I think you failed to notice the fact that what happened to you happened while weed was prohibited. If you are really concerned about the welfare of children you should be campaigning for prohibition of child birth without acessment, and the subsequent issuing of a licence.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
I truly respect what you are saying here. Children should be taken into account. But there is a "way out" for children of abusive/neglectful parents -- they can tell someone. A teacher, friend, whoever will listen that their parents are hurting them. I know that this isn't always the best solution -- the best being the parents shape up and take care of their kids -- but children can be protected from parents.
The problem is people still have the right to make their own decisions, whether good or bad, beneficial or harmful. It is not the govt's decision to say what I can/cannot put into MY body. People will always abuse freedoms -- Does that then mean people should not get the choice?
In addition, this post is purely about marijuana (you would have a hard time convincing people to legalize crack -- too harmful). But marijuana -- as was previously posted -- has less harmful effects than alcohol, is less addictive than tobacco, and if used in moderation can relax a person in times of intense stress. Wouldn't you rather use an herb naturally put on earth to calm your nerves -- opposed to taking a Rx drug that has various negative side effects (loss of appetite, sexual disfunction, zombie-like persona, decreasing the range of emotions felt)?
The entire problem of trying to prohibit entirely is that if people want something bad enough, ( alcohol, cigarettes, pot and many other drugs), they will get them. Ask almost any teenager or young adult, and they will be able to give you names of people or stores that you can buy tobacco and alcohol from, and also people that sell drugs within their school and community. There is no way to control people, especially immoral people who don't want to be controlled. So I say we quit wasting time and money of trying to govern ignorant people who chose to abuse drugs. There are many other things that the government could and should be spending money on, like raising up a new generation that isn't so dependent on drugs and harmful things. If I had my choice, I would get rid of drugs completely, because I have directly seen and felt the harmful effects of drug abuse on a person and their family. But I know that will never happen, so I hate to burst your bubble, but we don't live in a marajuana free place, and we probably never will. That's why marajuana should be legalized.
"Good government is no substitute for self-government"
Mahatma Gandhi
this issue isn't very pertinent to me, i'm not extremely interested in it or anything.
this was informative though. i never really thought about it.
it soud not be legal
why?
i'm sure it will be legalized more sooner than later
To respond to someone's point about the children, I agree to an extent. People who force their children to live in a "smoker's house" aren't exactly the best parents. But even then, making marijuana illegal won't stop that. Punish the parent for being irresponsible with their children, not for smoking.
And I agree with what others have said here. The war on drugs is quite a waste of money. We do have more pressing concerns at this point and time.
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http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/whitejabberwocky
I think the issue might be more economical than anything else. If marijuana remains illegal, than research and production on things made from marijuana is limited (or illegal). Because of the sparsity of legal marijuana, things such as hemp paper (which would damage the lumber industry), hemp oil (which would detriment the oil & fuel industry), and hemp plastics (which would detriment the plastic industry) are in short supply or unavailable. The government wouldn't be able to tax it well because it is rather easy to grow for personal use. I think these, more than anything (except maybe the Christian-right), are the reasons that marijuana won't be legalized.
--Mike
why is it that the goverment dont like pot i smoke it and there not doing anything about it it is grown in the ground like other drugs beer doesnt crack dont the goverment made aid's and crack but there aigenst pot why they grow it it is called g-13 but you haveto have a card saying you can smoke it what i am saying pot should be legal because it helps people like if your in a bad mood it calms you down i dont know my thing is pot should be legal for so many diffrent reason's
wow. you should not be allowed to reproduce.
--Mike
THis, ladies and gentlemen is a good reason why pot should be illegal and banned! Look at what its doing to our youth!
Maybe it's the combination of Crack and Alcohol that he's talking about...
--Mike
How about the useless parents who let the television raise their children instead of doing it themselves? Perhaps if parents didn't suck so badly these days, their children wouldn't be convinced by MTV that Weed and Gangsa's are the key to happiness.... just a little thought for you, you insipid fool.
-His Royal Dude-ness
I'm sure that if we legalized marijuana and outlawed television, humankind would be vastly improved. Both are drugs, but television is more addictive and causes far more damage to the brain.
It's quite common for human beings to fear and hate what they do not understand. Essentially, ignorance. I use cannabis regularly. Why? Because I enjoy the effects. It's that simple; really. I also eat hamburgers because I enjoy the effects. People who use drugs to escape problems and stress can be considered "week minded" or at the brink of mental capacity. That is an ignorant assessment based on the lack of knowledge of neurobiology and genetic dispositions that occur in human beings. These are facts. Human beings are complex organizations of chemicals. That is the bottom line. That is reality. To engage in such talk as, "I have a soul, I'm not chemicals!", is kindergarten talk. THC does not kill brain cells. Delta 9 THC acts as a chemical naturally found in the body called anandamide. Interestingly, only specific compounds act as the neurotransmitter, a KEY, and the receptors must be presented with the proper key to engage chemical reactions within the neuron that stimulate ions to create the electrical impulse that fires a nerve cell in the brain. THC is structurally different from anandamide, but it is able to bind with the regular receptors for anandamide, including TWO special receptors in the human body that only respond to the cannabinoids in THC. Man, there is just too much info, but it is important that you understand the facts at the molecular if you are to challenge the use of Cannabis. An intelligent educated person gets frustrated with kindergarten level anti-weed talk.
Here's another thought. If marijuana is legal, the government can control it. The number of shootings and gang related problems would drop DRAMATICALLY if they did not have drugs and money to fight over. There wouldn't be nearly as many street deals if it is cheaper to go to the local Quik Check for it. Those who want it, will get it regardless, so why not hand it to them legally, while reducing crime and getting tax money off of it?
That's a common misconception. The government won't be able to control it because it's far too easy (and much cheaper) for someone to grow themselves. The government wouldn't be able to collect nearly as much tax money as they would be able to for something like cigarettes or alcohol.
--Mike
If made legal, marijuana users would be more inclined to buy weed in the form of a package sold and marketed just like cigarettes. During prohibition, many people made their own alcohol. However, now that it is legal, people rely on mass producers for obtaining their beverages. Tobacco is legal as well, do people grow their own tobacco simply because they do not want to pay a tax on it? No. The government would receive plenty of money via taxes if marijuana was legalized.
Again, I said it's cheaper and easier to grow pot. If it were easy and cost effective to grow tobacco or brew alcohol, people would do it, but for the most part, it isn't.
--Mike
Marijuana should be legalized because of all the liberty and individual right's crap. Either that, or the government should ban all toxic drugs, including tobacco and alcohol.
I agree with this. THere is no point in alcohol really, except to steralize my cuts. Tobacco...yeah..just shitty.
Ah love discussions like this. SO pointless cause the smokers are going to defend it to their dying breath. pairs judgement, causes short term memory loss, damages your brain, blah blah blah. The best is how much chemicals they pump into weed nowadays. Nobody REALLY knows how badly weed can fuck you up these days. Too stoned to find out. Enjoying the effects too much to care. 20 years down the road tell me how great weed is when you cant even remember your birthday. Im sure its packing cancer agents in it too. MIght not notice today or tomorrow, but years down the road, if you're sitll alive, you'll notice. Now let the pointless flaming BEGIN!
You cannot speak of long term effects if you have never seen or experienced them? The scientific evidence to back the "harms" of smoking marijuana used mice that were given at least 1000 times the normal human consumption -- well sure, pump a ton of chemicals into a tiny being and it will get sick!
Thankfully, I am from a town that (while pot is still illegal) is liberal on the subject with a whopping 80% of the population admitting to smoking weed on an occasional basis. And guess what, many of these folks are older and have been smoking marijuana for decades -- Willie Nelson for example, is still coherent, making great music, and uses his money is productful ways...like biodiesel fuels cars... (http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/). In addition, I am acquainted with a malpractice lawyer in her late 30s -- she has smoked marijuana for at least 10 years, works at least 80 hours a week and makes well over six figures. She uses weed to relax after a hard days work.
I get really irritated when people attempt to box all pot smokers into the lazy/unmotivated/unhealthy/retard category without really understanding or researching for themselves all the misinformation out there. I have spent many hours looking for the harmful effects of marijuana smoking and in all truth weed has LESS harmful effects than alcohol or cigarettes.
My brain isn't too damaged if I'm sixteen years old and scoring over a hundred percent in trigonometry class, among others, and can hold a part time job along with doing volunteer work. You're right, memory can be affected, I personally have lost a few bits and pieces of my childhood but I could honestly care less what I did for my seventh birthday. And for the chemicals, marijuana can hold up to fifty percent more of some of those found in cigarettes. Marijuana also can not cause lung cancer. You gonna bitch about the small chance of serious respiratory problems? Then you have a lot more substances to bitch about.
Haha, learn to be less ignorant and you might even get a little respect.
"I personally have lost a few bits and pieces of my childhood but I could honestly care less what I did for my seventh birthday."
Which is something that has happened to most people whether they smoke or not. I know people who've never toked and they have shit memories. Besides, it's short term memory that's effected and it's effected mostly while you are smoking regularly, the effects ease with discontinued use. There was an article I read ages ago that suggested that the lowered performance in short term emory brought about by Cannabis use isin't just arbitrary. It suggested that the user's mind subconsciously selects things that are sources of stress to 'foget' temporarily. Things that seemed really important and that were stressing the user suddenly become less important in a bid to relieve the stress, sometimes these things are reduced in importance to the point where they get forgotten about.
For example, often if there's something that you need to do, but something that you really don't want to do, it causes you stress and gets stuck on your mind for all the time you are not doing it. If you smoke, the task suddenly becomes less significant and thus less stressful, which leads to relaxation and before you know it, your short term memory has shuffled the task so far to the back of your priorites for alleviate your stress, that you end up 'forgetting' to do the task. The suggestion is that you don't necessarily 'just forget', you subconsciously choose to ignore or you subconsciously choose not to remember in the first place.
One of the true great American comedians, the late Bill Hicks had a great line about weed in respect to the effect it has on reducing stress:
"They lie about marijuana. Tell you pot-smoking makes you unmotivated. Lie! When you're high, you can do everything you normally do, just as well. You just realize that it's not worth the fucking effort. There is a difference."
"Marijuana also can not cause lung cancer."
Any form of smoke can be carcinogenic, so marijuana is only non-carcinogenic if it's not smoked, ie if it's eaten or vaporized.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
I definetly think the legalization of marijuana could be a positive thing for society. With legalization, we could have a gradual tax on it (at the beginning, taxes would be low, so we could make selling marijuana illegally unprofitable - pharmacies = cheaper, safer), and perhaps a card system - you would have to purchase a marijuana license, basically to help keep track of your marijuana usage. Anyone that's way above the average would be investigated, to ensure they weren't reselling / giving away to minors.
We would continue, though, anti-drug information - because yes, while it's legal, it still can be dangerous, even deadly, if it's used enough over a long period of time. The other illegal drugs should remain illegal, though - they have good reason to be illegal.
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If a society is willing to give freedom for temporary security, they deserve neither.
"while it's legal, it still can be dangerous, even deadly, if it's used enough over a long period of time."
--dangerous, maybe, but I would love to see where marijuana has been deadly...I have yet to hear the cause of death being marijuana.
Sounds like you pretty much still want to keep it illegal. There aren't "cigarette cards" and people don't track alcohol consumption to make sure people aren't reselling to minors. If you're going to make it legal, make it legal.
I want to add that there is another way to use marijuana. You can vaporize it. Rather than burn the pot with a lighter, it is heated with a small heating element or hot air is blown through it. by doing this the essential oils and the thc is turned into a vapor that you can inhale. this has several benefits, you are cutting out the gases and chemicals that are inhaled when it is burned and it takes less pot to get the desired effect
Vapes are so nice.
--Mike
They would become the main way to consume THC if marijuana was made legal...
No they wouldn't, they're far too expensive and complicated.
--Mike
...legalize and see how fast those R&D guys come up with a way to make them easy and affordable. Another advantage of legalization!
I wonder to myself about this... if people are allowed to blacken their lungs, increase their chances for lung and jaw cancer (and others), stunt their growth, shorten their life span and potentially spread not only a risk of birth defect but a risk of cancer in newborn, all in doing one thing, then why not let them do marijuana?
But then there's the issue of morals. More than once we've seen the whole parents-freaking-out-to-drug use scene. So how would the public react if marijuana were indeed legalized?
I'm not really defending marijuana illegalization, and personally I think we'd do much better without it. It's just that some parents are much more worried about their children being caught and prosecuted for abuse rather than the brain-damaging effects of it.
Morals? What's marijuana have to do with morals?
--Mike
I think that it should be made legal only in extreme cases, such as cancer patients.
The best way to a man's heart is really through his stomach, that way you don't have to deal with that pesky rib cage!
~Anomous
I think that it should be made legal only in extreme cases, such as cancer patients.
The best way to a man's heart is really through his stomach, that way you don't have to deal with that pesky rib cage!
~Anomous
I think that it should be made legal only in extreme cases, such as cancer patients.
The best way to a man's heart is really through his stomach, that way you don't have to deal with that pesky rib cage!
~Anomous
Why? Why?
oops sorry for the tripple post, computer messing up
The best way to a man's heart is really through his stomach, that way you don't have to deal with that pesky rib cage!
~Anomous
I have smoked marijuana everyday since the first time i tried it. Its something that i do for fun and recreation. I smoke in my basement and dont leave the house, i dont put anyone in danger. why not legalize it? The govenrment would make so much more money on the tax profits made from it, they could use that for education, poverty, whatever the hell they wanna use it for. too much money is spent on the fight against drugs and there are so many better things our tax dollars could contribute to. There are several things that i would like to fight for, and i don't understand why these things are not just legal. Im a lesbian, i love my girlfriend with my all, why can't i marry her, im joining the Army in January and im going to fight for this country, i think i deserve to still be able to smoke that joint, i'll sure as hell be glad and willing to pay tax on it. i dont see what the big deal is...?
Sorry to sound like an economic lobbyist, but profit is on our side by the legalization of miss Mary Jane. Does anyone know how many tax dollars our law enforcement spends each year on marijuana prosecutions and jailing? The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse (CASA) at Columbia University reported that of the $77.9 billion spent on the results of drug abuse; almost half of the fund ($30.7 billion) was spent in the justice system. 30.7 billion dollars. The government would not only pull in revenue from new taxes on marijuana, but we would also be saving billions of dollars of justice funding. Think. Save. Act.
LovelyLovell
If people want to smoke marijuana, they will no matter if its illegal or legal - especially given that its a lot safer than say tobacco. Tobacco is proven to cause lung cancer - even those who don't smoke are at risk for second hand smoke. I've never heard of anyone dying from lung cancer from smoking weed. If they want to smoke it, its their brain cells to kill - you can kill just as many by holding your breath underwater for a long period of time. And that sure isn't illegal.
I know how you feel. Despite the fact that I think, overall, it would be better if marajuana was legalized, there's just something that doesn't seem right about it...
Then again, that could just be because we've been conditioned to believe that BECAUSE it's illegal. In a lot of people's minds (including mine, to some extent) marajuana = BAD. Not necessarily because of what it does (although I don't think I would ever do marajuana) but because the government doesn't want us doing it.
I wouldn't be heartbroken if it was legalized, but it's not one of those issues I feel very strongly about one way or the other.
Because I like it.
Insert Shameless Self-Promotion Here -- http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ada-castellon
cigarette companies give too much money to the republicans.
if marijuana became legal the cigarette industry would lose iots stronghold on america