Last month a boy named Larry King was murdered for being gay. He asked a fellow male classmate to be his Valentine. Later on, the classmate killed him. The thing is... they were both in the 8th grade. It bothered me that this was a hate crime. But what bothered me most was that this was a crime committed by someone who hasn't even reached high school! It is really sad that this kind of thing happens in our children's schools. Now, so many lives have changed. Even for the young 8th grader who commited the crime. It's sad and disheartening...and it makes me wonder...
How does this sort of thing happen? Especially in an environment where children are supposed to be protected? Yes I get that not everything is 100% guaranteed. No one can guarantee safety but elementary schools, middle and high schools should be a place where kids should be free to be themselves and feel safe in. The school is an educational environment where kids can express themselves freely and openly, not a place where kids are afraid to be who they are.
Also, how can these kids have easy access to violence? How can one come up with the idea that if someone is gay, you kill them? I've heard of hate crimes committed in high school, college, and all that, but its still unbelievable to me that this is a crime that was committed by someone who isn't even old enough to drive.
Is this the parents' fault? For not teaching them enough to respect a person's unique character, and for having a gun so easily accessible in the house? What would you tell to your child about other children who are gay? Would you allow them to make up their own minds and allow them to have their own opinion? I'm a firm believer in that people should be able to make up their own opinion on these sorts of issues. But its important that parents, teachers, mentors, etc., be able to teach their children to respect others opinions regardless of how different theirs may be.
yeah i heard about that too. I really don't understand how an 8th grader can even think about killing someone. How does that thought even cross a child's mind. I think it has a lot to do with the violence being shown on TV or the computer games being played. America really needs to start watching out for what the kids watch
The parents' responsibility also. TV and games can only be blamed so much. It makes me wonder too why this thought can cross a child's mind. But it just goes to show that youngkids are learning about these kinds of things more and more. They have strong beliefs in adult issues. I was ignorant in this fact thinking that kids are learning the same things I was learning when I was kid. But I guess my childhood is just totally different from theirs.
This was the first I had heard of this, but after reading several accounts of this incident there is a big question in my mind. The murderer is described as one of several students that harassed the victim for being openly gay, and cross dressing. Then the victim is also described as having asked the murderer to be his valentine, or of having told him he had a crush on him.
If both of these are true it makes me wonder if the victim was taunting the perpetrator with the crush, or if he had some reason to think the feelings might be mutual. Many times fear of latent homosexual feelings inspire the most vicious gay bashers. There may be other possibilities, or the stories could be misrepresenting those facts, but if not then this may be Gay on Gay crime, or provoked by purposeful taunting of the victim.
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.
Are you saying the boy had it coming to him if he WAS taunting the murderer with the crush? Are you suggesting that homophobia is a legtimate excuse for killing someone?
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
"Are you saying the boy had it coming to him if he WAS taunting the murderer with the crush?"
Well the first would be putting words into my mouth. If he asked the boy to be his valentine just to infuriate him what would you call it? I could understand that being a reaction to being harassed for his behavior. I am a bit of a smart ass myself, and more than once growing up other kids have attacked me for it.
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"Are you suggesting that homophobia is a legtimate excuse for killing someone?"
Homophobia is a mental problem. To qualify as a defence for murder it would have to be bad enough to make the perpetrator unable to tell right from wrong.
The media reports I reviewed paint a poor inocent, and a hatefull killer.
Things are rarely as simple as they seem.
Both kids are going to end up as victims. If the murder is tried as an adult and sent to prison at his age he will very likely get induced toward homosexuality by force.
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.
It seemed that was what you were getting at, but I wanted to be sure. I wouldn't want to accuse you of intolerance unfairly.
I just don't even know how to respond. I can't even imagine how asking someone out, even repeatedly, can warrant murder.
Also, prison rape is about power and degradation, not about being gay.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
"I can't even imagine how asking someone out, even repeatedly, can warrant murder."
If you remove the context, and think of it as just pushing the murders buttons it looks like a classic motive. Most murders kill their close freinds and family members.
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"prison rape is about power and degradation, not about being gay."
That is more true about rape in general. Prison rape is also a product of sexual deprivation. The lack of sexual outlet increases the number of people willing to resort to same sex activities, unfortunately they almost all want to be the man of the couple. Young men look more like women.
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.
It appears our brains will not think the same way, because I can in no way find just cause for killing that boy. Or any boy, for that matter.
If this were a stalking case, I think it would have come out by now. Don't you think the murderer would have put that out there right away? Your theories are complete speculation.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
"If this were a stalking case, I think it would have come out by now. Don't you think the murderer would have put that out there right away?"
From what I've seen the media has not gotten any statement from the Police, Defense atty. or family of the murderer regarding the circumstances or his mental state. Is there any doubt that the Police have gotten some statement from the boy? I'm unclear on which of the two explanations I proposed would be stalking.
One is a normal reason for murder of an associate. Most murders are done by people close to the victim, as was the case here, and the catalyst described by classmates seems pretty far removed from anything resembling 'stalking' by either party. The circumstances are more akin to bullying, and response if it is the first theory.
The second, latent homosexuality, is not 'stalking' either. Results of this type test have been conducted many times with consistent results. There is disagreement on the specific meaning of the heightened sensitivity to homoerotic stimulus by homophobic subjects, but that response is well documented. IMHO it seems that the controversy as to the meaning of such clear data is based in prejudice. I have that opinion because the alternate theories seem to avoid the obvious while favoring the more far fetched, and have not found an experimental method to support them.
This brings us back to the original question. If the Perpetrator was bullying and taunting the victim what inspired the victim to ask him to be his valentine? The two possibilities I raised are certainly speculation, but if they are so wrong what is the alternative possibility?
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"It appears our brains will not think the same way, because I can in no way find just cause for killing that boy."
Back to accusing me of unexpressed thoughts I see. Every murder has a motive. In this case all I am saying is that there is more depth to this one than the stories are willing to say. How does that amount to "just cause"? An unfortunate cliché is "Black on Black crime" in our time. It is a fact no matter how offensive it is to black racists who would rather blame white people, and perhaps have them be the victims of those crimes. This may be gay on gay crime, and you don't want to think so. What effect does your preference have on the truth?
Do you have any alternate explanation for the facts in this case, or does the speculation merely offend the way you would like to characterize the perpetrator?
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.
When the facts come out, it will be time to discuss what the victim did to cause his murder. At this point, the facts we have are, one kid dead.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Why is the QUESTION offensive to you?
Is it possible you want to make the victim a martyr for a cause as many of the stories clearly do?
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.
...the presentation of your argument leaves much to be desired in terms of compassion for the fact that a kid was murdered. And, you seem to be implying that if the gay kid was somehow picking on the kid who shot him, that it would somehow make this murder less heinous. I've read enough of your comments in the past to suspect that this is not the message that you are indending, but that IS how it sounds.
percivale
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I understand that I have been desensitized to violence when compared to most people. I don't intend to minimize the loss, just seek to better understand it.
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.
..what got into the minds of both the boys. Yes, there may be more to the story than what is actually portrayed in the media. I think I can see your view chillbill that maybe he wasn't shot because he was gay. Maybe he was doing something that pushed the other child to kill him, and the fact that he was gay just made the story so much more important. Who knows? No matter what really happened, this sort of situation brings out the reality of life today. Children and Hate Crimes.
Children know about the differences in sexual orientations, and children will have their opinions on it, and act on it. The problem isn't whether or not it was either one's fault... but instead, the incident just shows that children are becoming more and more like adults. It is our sole responsibilities as adults to teach the youth about respect, and acceptance towards different kinds of people.
I agree with everything you said. The increasing frequency of this type crime is the troubling part of the story. Unfortunately the issues involved are offensive to many from both sides, and that hinders working toward a solution.
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.
...wtf. I heard of this case, but I didn't hear that the boy who killed him was the same boy he asked to be his Valentine! That makes it even more sick - that he was killed by the very boy he (presumably) had a crush on.
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Please see my recent blog post, "Genocide and Student Activism": http://www.progressiveu.org/041447-genocide-and-student-activism
My sympathies are always with the victim. There is no cause for killing another person.
This is no longer productive. I simply wanted to question your suspicion of the victim, but you are skilled at dancing around it. I'm sure I'll see you around elsewhere, though!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
"There is no cause for killing another person. "
That is a nice ideal, but since murder happens, and has causes, sticking your head in the sand by not examining those causes is not helpful.
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"I simply wanted to question your suspicion of the victim, but you are skilled at dancing around it."
Actually the motive of the murderer is the thing I am questioning. His interaction with the victim is where I'm looking.
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I have some fairly firm opinions about being offended. When I find myself offended I always look for the reason why. Either the offensive statement is wrong or right. In either case my offence is due to an emotional prejudice within myself. The rationale for why I think that is true is more than enough for a blog of its' own.
A Fact is Always Better Than an Ideal.