This article is in response to the New York Times article about a state bill in Arizona that would legalize the carrying of concealed weapons on Arizona college campuses.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/us/05guns.html?ref=us
Would legalizing the carrying of guns on college campuses produce positive or negative results?
In theory, individuals who have concealed weapons will be able to respond quickly to shootings such as those that occurred at Virginia tech and Northern Illinois. There is also a strong probability that it would lower crime, in particular muggings. These would be positives especially at large universities such as Arizona University and Arizona State (so Arizona would be one of the states best-suited to benefit) where such crime is fairly common. This would basically be creating a volunteer support system to campus security, improving safety. With California creating a coordinator for volunteers, it would be another step in recognizing the impact, power and skills of volunteers.
However there is one major snag. These are college students. The vast majority of whom consume large portions of alcohol. Even without alcohol these are still college students who are likely to do something stupid just for the hell of it. If just allowed to carry guns there will likely be gun injuries from kids shooting off bullets in the air or firing at random targets. This would clearly be unsafe. Another problem brought up is how police may not be able to recognize a shooter because there will be more people on campus with guns.
There are solutions. The first thing that I would suggest adding would be a mandatory training program that would teach about safety features, how to shoot properly, how to react in different emergency situations such as mugging or shootings. Essentially, the program would emphasize the responsibility inherent in carrying a gun. This could be like CPR certification, where the students have to pay $50 to be trained, with the payment off-setting the cost for these courses. These certifications would probably have to be renewed every few years, or possibly attend an annual re-training session to keep gun carriers updated on their skill set as well as any new campus security policies.
Probably another necessity would be having all gun-carriers registering themselves as well as their guns with campus security. This would help in tracing gun-related crimes as well as hopefully familiarize security with the gun owners so that they will be able to locate a shooter's and not worry about other gun carriers on campus.
If these or similar ideas are implemented, this bill could be a very useful law. If enough students or university employees carried a weapon, most criminals would be unwilling to try and mug or otherwise participate in crimes on university campus neighborhoods. However if this is passed it must be tried slowly and carefully, to ensure that every gun owner takes their responsibility seriously and that gun crimes do not increase.
Please comment on the ideas perused, or add any of your own. However please supply reasons. I know that not everyone supports gun rights, but don't just disagree stating that guns are bad. Please supply reasons for why the passing of this bill would be bad. Thank you
Although the concept of being able to defend yourself sounds fine and dandy, I sure wouldn't trust college students with firearms because--like you pointed out earlier--they consume a lot of alcohol.
I would have to say no guns. Maybe tasers and mace?
I suspect tasers would be a worse idea than guns. People know that tasers are non-lethal so therefore they are more willing and likely to abuse them especially when drunk. I mean if it won't kill a person than it can't hurt to just try it out on somebody right?
Mace is a good idea, although I suspect that a fair number of college students have them, especially if they are going to a city college. That's an idea that could definitely be promoted by colleges and would be useful. I like it.
I was hoping that the gun-training would emphasize the responsibility of carrying a gun, although its uncertain how much of an effect it would have. Maybe having a no drinking while carrying a gun clause, although that would cut the effectiveness of the law a lot. Criminals would just come by at night when everyone is drunk.
Apparently, according to this post:http://www.progressiveu.org/222031-guns-campus-may-just-save-your-life
Utah has apparently allowed guns on college campuses with no ill effects. Mind you that Utah is not the same as Arizona. Utah has a large Mormon population, which tends to increase responsibility even at the college student level since the observant ones do not drink alcohol.(Having BYU, a university built on Mormon values, probably helps this statistic. Utah has had a large gun population so many students are probably used to having guns around are probably more responsible with them because of that.
I'm only saying this because I went to Arizona State University...
It's University of Arizona. Not Arizona University. :-P
That said, letting students carry firearms isn't going to be taken positively by a lot of people and enrollment rates are going to fall.
An education is what you make of it and I had an excellent education at ASU. But any rumors you've heard of it being a party school are true. There is a lot of drinking going on, both on and off campus. There are a lot of fraternities, sororities, and girls going for their MRS degrees.
Sure there's a high campus crime rate. I read it somewhere. What I didn't read was that most of those reported crimes are... bicycle thefts. There's security everywhere, a safety escort service for getting around campus at night, and every few feet they have stands where you can push a button and lights will flash and police will show up within minutes. It is not a campus I don't feel safe walking through. If I knew that students were carrying around weapons, I wouldn't feel safe. At all.
If nothing else, the rivalry is so bad between ASU and UofA, that I can guarantee you that there would be shootings before/during/or after the one football game that's bigger than the homecoming game. I lose faith in humanity everytime our 2 student bodies come together.
Concealed weapons belong on police officers, not college students.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/sawaboof
"...There is a crushing guilt that comes with being a Catholic. Whether things are good or bad or you're simply... eating tacos in the park, there is always the crushing guilt."
-30 Rock-
"If nothing else, the rivalry is so bad between ASU and UofA, that I can guarantee you that there would be shootings before/during/or after the one football game that's bigger than the homecoming game."
Ummm... I don't think so. Neither school is quite so sketch.
Thanks for correcting me, it is the University of Arizona.
hmmm I hadn't thought about if enrollment would drop. That would be an interesting thing to look at. What I suspect would happen would be that there would be more conservatives trying to enroll and less liberals trying to enroll. Both ASU and the University of Arizona would probably be insulated because they have good national reputations. The smaller, lesser-known colleges might see a drop off though.
Keep in mind that most states allow people to get a permit to carry concealed weapons at the age of 21, although I doubt too many young adults who have not served with the military actually get them.
Hmmm so you'd believe that guns would lead to gang-related activity or basically something similar. That could be a real possibility, and would probably lead to more work for the campus security. I think taht could be a serious problem that you have raised.
No college campuses generally don't have high crime rates. But allowing guns would lower the occurrence of muggings, shootings and not much else. Maybe some dormroom burglaries too. In any case allowing guns probably wouldn't make a huge impact on crime.
It just makes me cringe whenever I tell someone I went to ASU. "Oh in Tucson?" No. Not the one inTucson.
I don't think it would cause gang related activity... but there's one football game every year. ASU v UofA. It's crazy enough without throwing firearms into the mix.
One example: both schools have "mountains" near them with giant As. It is a big deal that, the night before the game, a bunch of students go guard the A. Because the other school tries to paint it with their school colors. Adrenaline and alcohol mix poorly enough as it is. Throwing in someone bringing their concealed firearm because it makes them look cool just isn't going to help the equation.
No, neither school is sketchy, but the students love to hate the other side and, I'd rather a lot of the students not do that with concealed (or any) weapons.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/sawaboof
"...There is a crushing guilt that comes with being a Catholic. Whether things are good or bad or you're simply... eating tacos in the park, there is always the crushing guilt."
-30 Rock-
I think that places of education should be totally gun free. I also feel the same way for places of business. However, I think that for a matter of protection, some security guards should be able to carry guns after more rigourous training. Just so you have some context as to where I am coming from, I am an Arizona resident and any laws about the U of A pretty much directly affect me.
I think college students with guns is a bad, bad idea. They drink, they do drugs, they're hormonal and occassionally irrational. Think about it. When do most people do the stupid, regrettable things in their lives? During high school or college. Some may be responsible enough to handle firearms, and I think your ideas on controlling the impact of firearms on campus with classes and registering, etc. is a good one. But just think: one pissed off, drunk, possibly high co-ed who just got dumped decides to go shoot his/her ex. The possibilities are just too frightening.
I agree with the last post that perhaps it would be better to carry tazers or mace. Something less dangerous and, shall we say, conclusive if one has to resort to using it in self defense.
It reminds me of something my history teacher once told us. He said that it was proposed that teachers should be able to carry guns on campus for the protection of their students. He told us that on one of his worse days he may very well shoot someone or himself (he was joking, I swear. He told us after that he would take a bullet for any of us.) But this also brings up another issue. What if a teacher didn't have that self-control or restraint, or was mentally unstable? What if they really did not like a student, or a student screwed with them Homecoming weekend or something? It just seems like a loosening of gun contol in a place with so many people and variables would inevitably lead to explosive situations.