I’ve read a lot of pro-choice and anti-choice blogs here on ProgressiveU. Some of them are well-thought and take a look at many different factors, while others cite only religious or “deal with the consequences” type arguments (I’m sure half of the latter have sex themselves, but that’s another rant) with no logical supporting ideas. We've all heard the big arguments a million times- killing vs. not killing, science, religion, and the adoption alternative, but hardly anyone considers the main issues that affect the mother during the pregnancy. I would like to mention some things about being pregnant that many people who have never had a child fail to consider, and that partially influence my views on the topic. I appreciate any feedback or thoughts you would like to share. Thanks for reading!
Terminology note: I use the term “anti-choice” as opposed to “pro-life”, because I have yet to meet a person who supports this idea that does not do at least one of the following:
1. Eat meat
2. Wear or purchase leather or fur
3. Use insect repellent or kill insects/spiders
4. Use only products that do not involve lethal animal tests
5. Support the death penalty
On with the blog.....
Not every woman who has "chosen" to create life had the choice, nor became pregnant as a result of a night of pleasure and carelessness. Some become pregnant due to failed birth control, rape, or even failed vasectomies. Even those who choose to become pregnant may not choose to become pregnant with an embryo that will have serious physical or mental defects. Caring for a disabled infant is very expensive, and oftentimes requires a full-time nanny or for one parent to stay at home with the baby. One of my fears during pregnancy was what I would do if my child had some type of health issue that required extensive care. Some other things that were focal points of my pregnancy included finances, missing work, buying maternity clothes, missing class, my health, and my appearance. Each of these had a huge impact on my life before, during, and after the pregnancy, and affect each woman differently depending on her situation.
Possibly the biggest concern with my pregnancy was money. Many people mention public assistance as an option for funding a pregnancy and supporting the mother while pregnant. In my home state, a person who makes $45,000 per year is ineligible for any type of insurance assistance. Many employers here do not offer health insurance, and purchasing health insurance is around $350 per month. A perfect example of someone who could easily fall into this situation is a restaurant worker. While tips may boost the income right into middle class status, most smaller restaurants and eateries do not offer health insurance, paid leave, or other benefits. The hospital bill for a pregnancy is around $30,000 for a very short hospital stay. It is quite possible that someone in this income bracket could not afford the hospital bill due to previous financial obligations and could not qualify for state pregnancy coverage. In this case, the person could quit their job to meet income guidelines, but would also have to sell his or her car if it were newer, sell their home if it was worth more than a certain amount, and still would be required to have less than a certain amount of cash, savings, assets, or retirement (I'm told this amount is $100, but not sure about that one). I know that if I were in that situation, I would not be willing to make those life-changing sacrifices for a non-sentient being.
The financial expenses do not end with medical bills. Nursery supplies, renting or buying a larger home, and diapers for a baby all can pose a burden even to someone recieving government assistance. While many programs may pay for rent, food, and medical bills, only few pay for diapers, wipes, or baby clothes and these programs are limited to the nonworking or very poor. A middle income family that does not qualify for assistance may have to make sacrifices such as food in order to purchase these items. Some also promote placing the child for adoption as a mandatory alternative to abortion that would eliminate some of these expenses. This is a GREAT option for some, but not for everyone. Many forget the physical and mental hardships of pregnancy: missed work for dr. appointments, weight gain, the need for a new pregnancy and post-pregnancy wardrobe, possibility of reduced income (this is common in occupations with radiation exposure or any job not covered by the FMLA) and other health risks associated with pregnancy. Adoption services will sometimes finance the hospital bill, but rarely cover the mother's clothing, missed work, child care for previous children during the mother's hospital stay, or counseling and aftercare for the biological mother. I spent at least a few hundred dollars on maternity clothes to wear during my pregnancy for a mere 2 months, only to need ANOTHER full work wardrobe after pregnancy because I had gained weight in some areas but was too small to fit into my maternity clothes. The total expense for clothing was around $600, and this was shopping at Wal Mart, thrift stores, etc. My feet grew, my proportions changed, and my boobs sagged. I had to buy everything from shirts to socks and underwear. I also had to miss work and school for doctor's appointments, and at times had to perform other jobs with reduced pay because I could not perform the higher paying work while pregnant. It was difficult to maintain a good GPA while working so many hours and missing class. To me, I had no problem with this because I wanted to be pregnant and was excited about becoming a mother even though my birth control had failed. Had I been a victim of rape or a person who can’t work 80 hours per week while taking 15 hours of college classes and still in high school, I wouldn't have done it.
One thing many anti-choice supporters never consider is the woman’s appearance afterwards. Some women do actually have careers where appearance is a must: models, actresses, performers, and even Hooters girls. If a woman in one of these fields is raped and the only option were adoption, is it right to end this person’s chosen career because of their appearance after pregnancy? Weight loss is not the only part of a woman’s appearance that changes. Stretch marks, surgery scars, and saggy breasts are all a possibility and cannot be reversed. Breast augmentation averages at about $4000, and even a tummy tuck will not hide stretch marks. Many women also enter postpartum depression due to their feelings about appearance. Some adoption agencies do not cover this expense, and I have never heard of an adoption agency funding a boob job or tummy tuck. I know appearance is a shallow thing to think about, but for some women their career depends on it.
There are other things for you to consider that you may or may not have already thought about. I've read a lot of arguments that there are sooooo many people waiting to adopt, and not enough babies to go around. There are many more children under state care in the US and worldwide than there are potential adoptive families, but the problem is that almost every adoptive parent prefers a younger child over an older one. Many say that babies are quickly adopted, but what about the mentally or physically disabled infants? I have yet to meet an anti-choice supporter that would choose to adopt a mentally or physically disabled baby over a healthy one, or over having their own (I know some people do this, but not many). There are thousands of older children who have been removed from abusive or abandoned situations waiting to be adopted that will not find homes before the age of 18 because almost every adopting parent prefers a younger child. These alert, sentient, children could possibly be adopted if less babies were in the adoption system. Should we prohibit babies from entering the adoption system? Absolutely not. I also do not think that encouraging abortion in order to solve this problem is an appropriate approach. I do feel that prohibiting abortion would create an excess number of older children waiting to be adopted because of the excessive amount of babies in the system. If you are a heavy supporter of adoption as the only alternative to abortion, have you adopted children or do you plan to adopt? If not you, then who? The number of married, high middle income couples who cannot have children due to infertility or other issues is quite low, and adoption agencies oftentimes refuse singles, unmarried straight couples, or gay couples from adopting. People who are anti-choice supporters oftentimes are against the idea of a gay or unmarried coupld adopting a child, but will never adopt children themselves. In addition, adoption fees are frequently much more expensive than a routine pregnancy. Would you consider paying for a rape victim’s pregnancy-related expenses so that she can choose adoption, and if so, have you sacrificed luxuries in your life to do so? How much would you sacrifice- your future fertility? Your appearance? Your testicles?
So, if you’re one of those who are anti-abortion in all situations, would you consider sacrificing your luxuries in order to finance these things for a pregnant mother, even if it meant replacing a 40-50K salary while the mother had to miss work? If you say yes, have you ever donated money or new items to such a service that provides mothers who choose adoption with this service, or do you choose to eat out once a week instead? Most everyone on here owns a computer, has internet service, and even a cell phone, but none of these are necessary for survival. After reading this, will the anti-choice supporter cancel these services and send the usual amount paid each month to an adoption-related charity? You may say that you didn’t choose to have sex, or that you take all the necessary precautions, but rape victims didn’t choose to have sex, and birth control is not 100% effective. Should these cases be an exception? Should there be any exceptions in your opinion?
Once again, I don’t think an abortion should be an alternative to birth control. I also like the idea of limiting most abortions to the first trimester, except in certain cases. I do not think that ANY woman should be required to have a moral obligation to sacrifice her well being, career, happiness, or even her appearance in order to support an embryo/fetus that is not yet sentient.
Thanks again for reading! If this made you think about some things you hadn’t considered before, please rate this blog.
Cheers,
LQ















Okay, so I'm pro-choice, and for the most part, this is a fairly pertenant blog. But...
1. Eat meat
2. Wear or purchase leather or fur
3. Use insect repellent or kill insects/spiders
4. Use only products that do not involve lethal animal tests
5. Support the death penalty
What the heck do those five things have to do with abortion? Number 5, got it, if you support the death penalty, I can see the troublesome dichotomy here, and I'm with you. But I'm not a vegetarian... and as a matter of fact, I have a beaver hat made by natives, I kill spiders if they are in my house (though I don't use repellant or spray because I'm not so much into chemicals, but what does that have to do with being pro- or anti- choice?), and number 4, isn't that a good thing?
Anyway, other than that, good points.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/kariskoett
"All things appear and disappear because of the concurrence of causes and conditions. Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else."
-Buddha
Because pro-life means for life. It's rather hypocritical to pick and choose what lives and what dies. Doing the listed things (or not doing in the case of 4) would go against what "pro-life" is supposed to stand for.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
i think you have to be resonable in realizing that there is a difference between a human life and an animal or insect life.. and if you cant understand this.. then this is a pointless debate
Thank you.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/kariskoett
"All things appear and disappear because of the concurrence of causes and conditions. Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else."
-Buddha
And what difference is that? The fact that we're self-aware? I find it hard to argue that a dog or cat or even a rat is not self-aware themselves, considering the things they are capable of doing and feeling (such as compassion for others). Are they somehow inferior because we cannot understand or communicate with them like we do among ourselves? Yet, we can't even communicate among ourselves, what with different languages and all, and even among those who speak the same language, we can't communicate very effectively (otherwise we wouldn't have classes and classes about communication). Is it because we have a "soul"? Well, considering the soul is a spiritual thing and even looking up a definition brings four different answers, it's rather hard to determine whether or not animals have souls (and, as animals, that could bring to question whether we have souls). Assuming the soul exists, there are a large number of people who hold that all things, even the inanimate, have souls. An even larger number of people hold that at least animals and people have souls, and we can reincarnate into an animal in our future lives (or had incarnated as animals in a past life).
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Thank you.
So wait, are you arguing for or against abortion? It sounds like you are arguing against it. So you are saying it is wrong to eat meat? I can't really apologize for that. While some people may live on vegetarian diets, because their bodies function that way, mine is one to necessarily need meat proteins. Furthermore, there are lots and lots of carnivorous animals who also kill - shall we also berate them for making decisions on who shall live and who shall die? I'm there with the whole, animal rights, don't kill an animal just for it's tusks or skin or fur or whatever; use the whole animal, I'm totally there. I live in a Native community, and everything that is hunted for is used completely. When I say I have a beaver skin hat, I mean I have a beaver skin hat, and someone ate that beaver. And they eat seal and whale and walrus and bear, etc. There is a difference between respecting nature while still using it for what it gives to us and idolizing it. More, it is the spirit of nature rather than the soul of animals that is really worshiped. Traditional Native culture respects the spirit of the whale, but they do not stop hunting for them. It is their source of life. For them to live, the whale must die. It is a circle, and it has to exist. In terms of abortion... None of these reasons are applicable, really. But I'm still pro-choice.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/kariskoett
"All things appear and disappear because of the concurrence of causes and conditions. Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else."
-Buddha
Actually, I'm arguing for it. The only point I was trying to make about the killing part is that people who call themselves "pro-life" and use the "don't kill" reasoning will support killing other organisms with self awareness but disapprove of "killing" something as undeveloped as a blastosphere.
My personal take on vegetarianism is that if one can do so without causing mental or physical suffering, he or she should either not eat meat, or kill the animal in a respectful way. I don't see anything wrong with eating beaver, etc (I'm actually Native as well) if the process is humane, appreciative, and minimizes animal suffering. This idea is why I don't think we need to regulate or condemn a lion eating a gazelle, or a person whose only source of food is hunting without humane death of the animal. One point, though- you may want to research the statement "While some people may live on vegetarian diets, because their bodies function that way, mine is one to necessarily need meat proteins." Biologically, no person's body actually requires animal vs. vegetable proteins. There are no nutrients in meat that cannot be obtained from non-animal sources. Think about it- the animal you're eating synthesized its protein from vegetable sources, and so can you. There's a little more to it than that, but you get the idea. This is one of those big misconceptions that biochemists joke around about at the water cooler. :)
Number 4 is a typo. It was supposed to be exactly the opposite. I think I wrote that one late at night.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
Actually, I have researched nutrition quite a bit. And the proteins found in animals can't necessarily be replaced by nuts and legumes, etc. There are different sorts of proteins, remember. The proteins in eggs, for example, are different from the proteins in peanuts. My body doesn't like peanuts or cashews; my body also doesn't like pork. Pork is a different kind of protein. I mostly stick to chicken and certain kinds of fish, with the occassional beef. Yes, bodies are able to function on vegetarian diets, but you still have to consume complete proteins, of which meat is the best resource. Some people are actually better off with a vegetarian diet, though you still have to somehow consume a complete protein by mixing it up. That's one of the coolest things about humans, though: our bodies are so varied in terms of needs and function. Anyway, we still have lots in common. The way the human body digests and functions is actually quite different than, say, a horse; that's why they can live off of hay and grain while our diets generally require a greater variety. Our bodies still require complete proteins. You may do fine and well on a veggie diet; that's grand! But some of us have bodies that actually crave the complete proteins found in meat, and that's because our bodies need it. Cravings aren't always just for kicks. We often crave what our body needs. Cool, huh? I knew I always liked steak as a kid. I never realized until I got older that it was because my BODY actually liked the steak also! Our bodies are so smart! So chocolate cravings? Maybe your body just needs a good antioxidant or, since there are agents in cocoa that are actually antidepressants, maybe your body knows you just need to feel better. :) Anyway, the point is, animals synthesize proteins from vegetable sources, yes, but my body is not the same as a cow's. I can't live off of grass and corn alone, sorry to say. There is still a stark difference between omnivores and herbivores. Our bodies are designed for both meat and veggies...
Way off topic... but thought I'd share anyway. Nutrition and food is one of my obsessions...
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/kariskoett
"All things appear and disappear because of the concurrence of causes and conditions. Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else."
-Buddha
There are different kinds of proteins in everything. All proteins, however, are made of the same thing-amino acids. Your body uses the proteins you eat as both energy and as building blocks to make human proteins. Your body can synthesize all necessary proteins from any source, as long as all necessary amino acids are consumed.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
I am pro-choice, though mainly because I don't feel anyone has any right to say what someone does or doesn't do in their life in regards to such matters. As harsh as it may sound, sometimes it is best for a mother not to have a child. Now, I do not support late-term (after first term) abortions unless the mother's life is in jeopardy.
I, too, eat meat, and agree with you about making use of the whole animal and respecting nature, and I, too, am one that pretty much has to eat meat. And as far as how other animals kill, I generally like to showcase the hunting strategies of the Komodo Dragon to the PETA-style, "they have feelings" vegans whenever they try to go off about how eating meat is cruel.
The point of my response, though, is that humans are not above animals, so it's hypocritical to preach about the "sanctity of [human] life" and still endorse the other activities the original author listed.
More, it is the spirit of nature rather than the soul of animals that is really worshiped.
Indeed, and there are also cultures/religions, such as Jainism, that believe that all things have souls. I don't remember the details, but some will even go to the point of wearing masks to prevent accidentally killing insects.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Wow, the mask thing is extreme. I don't take things that far, but I will kindly move the insect outside, unless his bugliness poses a threat to the well being of me or my family, such as a hostile wasp or bee. The nice ones at least get a chance to fly out an open door before they become sacrificed. :)
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
You're exactly right. That's the point pro-choicers are trying to make when explaining the case for abortion to others. You have to be reasonable in realizing that there is a difference between an independently functioning human life and a small, nonsentient embryo or one that relies on another entity for support. Unfortunately, some people just don't get it.
As for animals, humans are animals.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
Personally I know if I were to get pregnant I would seriously consider an abortion. One it really isn't even a baby until eight weeks nto a pregnancy, until then it is just a mass of dividing cells. Second of all I wouldn't be able to deal with the stress of pregnancy. I suffer from severe anxiety and get stressed really easily, and it has been proven that stress can actually cause a miscarriage or cause birth defects. And third right now I am really focussed on school right now and a baby just isn't in the picture. I wouldn't be able to deal with it emotionally, physically, or financially and that just isn't fair to the baby. Yes I would consider adoption but I don't know if I could personally handle it.
I don't think I could handle adoption either. I would get an abortion, as long as it was early in the pregnancy. My personal view is to not injure or harm anything sentient, so I don't personally approve of abortions later than about 3 months into the pregnancy or so. My greater, big picture view is that no person should be morally or legally required to support another being's vitality. This view holds that I would allow removal of the fetus by ceasarean or other means if the pregnancy is late enough that the fetus can independently survive.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion