Sac-town:
So there's this new bill that says it's alright to spank a child on the bottom with an "open hand".
Sure, it says some good things too - of course it should be illegal to use objects or a fist to hid a kid. Of course you don't kick, throw, or choke a child. And I'm satisfied with the fact that "vigorous shaking" and "striking the face" is illegal. Should be.
But spanking IS allowed (this applies to children 3 y/o and under) as long as it's a fair punishment.
Am I the only one who doesn't agree with this?
It's a broad bill; it has the right ideals, but any kind of physical force that causes pain, however slight, is unjustifiable.
A gentle pat on the butt does not necessarily guarantee a troubled future for a child, but that doesn't make it right. Truth is, there are much better and surely much more effective ways to punish a kid.
I remember being in an airport a few years ago. This little girl, maybe three years old, was balling her eyes out. Maybe she was being a brat (you know how kids are), but I was shocked to see the parents stop walking and drop all their belongings to spank their child - and did her crying stop? I think not. It was like the airport turned silent; I saw some shocked faces.
But like I said, one can still grow up healthy with this kind of punishment. A friend of mine admits to being hit and slapped frequently as a child. Of course, this is more extreme than spanking, but my friend still says it was effective and she will gladly hit her children too. She's a good person, a healthy person, but touching a child with a rough hand is just not right.
Are they being old-fashioned or am I just being anal? I guess it is a matter of personal ethics.
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I see nothing wrong with spanking a child when the situation calls for it. Perhaps those parents shouldn't have spanked her just because she was crying, but I don't know that that's all that she was doing. Granted, I don't think you should spank a baby (like... before they can walk)...
~C
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Spanking really does no good on older children either. It just angers the pre-teen/teen into further rebellion.
It is good for them. I think mom's should be able to slap, and the use of belts and switches is approproiate. Spanking is not abusive it is punishment for wrong actions. And it is an effective punishment.
Goverment stay out of the family.
"Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil."-C.S. Lewis
I can guarantee that if I saw someone hitting their child with a belt I would report them. No questions asked.
I was hit with a belt, and that is not right. At all.
Once, my father grabbed the belt in a hurry, and, (accidentally, mind you) hit me with the wrong end. The buckle end. It's an honest mistake, but it happened none the less.
When you use objects to hit you are not as in control. You can tell just how hard you are going to hit with your hand.
I have been hit with a belt, a sandal, a flyswatter, a rolled up newspaper, and some of my grandmother's strange gizmos. So what, I deserved it. I'm not traumatized for life, and I wouldn't have turned out right if I didn't get a good beating.
If I saw someone hitting their child with a belt, I would find out about the situation before I rush to call the police. There was a true story about a teenage girl who arranged for HER OWN PARENTS to be deported after they had a fight. Don't tell me this kind of daughter didn't deserve to be hit with a belt.
Hand.
No question about it.
You are NOT in enough control when you use an object to hit a child. I don't give a care WHAT your grandma did to you, and I think there is a bigger problem if you think you wouldn't have turned out right without a good *beating*.
There are ways of punishment without actually harming a child.
The Asian culture finds it necessary to give their children a good beating when they misbehave. Belts and sandals are the standard tools, but we can get pretty creative.
I don't know any Asian who haven't been beaten with something other than hand, and none of them think that it was child abuse. In fact, they can laugh it off now, so contrary to popular belief, that kind of "abuse" doesn't cause lasting psychological damage whatsoever.
I am fervently disagreeing with them.
My opinion still stands.
I don't think a BEATING of a child will EVER be the root of any good. Sure, people turn out fine in the end, but I am never going to agree that beating the crap out of a kid will be the cause in a cause and effect where the effect is good.
A swat on the bum is positive punishment(technical term positive, not like..."oh yah yay" positive). Beating a child with a shoe or a belt is abuse. I don't care if you're African, Asian, Bohemian, French, English, Scandanavian, Portugese, Iranian, yeah I just don't give a care. It's abuse. And if you do it infront of me (or someone like me) you will be reported as such.
My point is, you need to see the two sides of the story before you quickly report what YOU think is "abuse". You're pro-spanking but anti-abuse. Some people think spanking IS abuse, and if they report you because they think you're abusing your children, when you think you're only teaching them a lesson, I don't think you would be too happy.
But in fact, I've heard of the most ridiculous stories of parents getting into trouble because nosy strangers who didn't know what was going on in a household decided they were witnessing child abuse.
If I saw someone wailing the crap out of a kid with their "open hand" I would report it too.
It's all going to be in the scene. I don't care about the situation BEHIND the spanking. If it looks like it's causing the child actual harm, not some mild discomfort and a little embaressment, then I am going to report it.
I know parents get in trouble for stupid stuff, but that doesn't mean you need to let abuse slide because you "don't know the whole story". And hitting children with objects is abuse.
To you, it's abuse. But does what you think apply to other people? Hitting children with objects is a common practice someplace else. People who live in that kind of environment don't think it's abuse, but a way to discipline their children. What makes your opinion (it's ABUSE) more valid than their opinion (it's NOT abuse)?
Does not define abuse in a definitive way. It's still going to be up to interpretation (I looked it up hoping for some direction)
But A swat on the but (for me, as I would use it) would not be to hurt the child. Abuse is when it actually HURTS. When the physical pain is what causes the tears.
And like I said before, there is a greater chance of harming the child when an instrument is used to to the hitting, because you cannot gauge as well as you can with your hand, and objects are more likely to cause bruising than an open hand.
In some environments it is considered to beat and rape your wife.
Does that make it acceptable?
Its considered what?
Are you arguing against me or agreeing with me?
I don't get it.
...that is why I shouldn't write anything past midnight. x.x Meant to say, it's considered acceptable.
I agree...if the situation calls for it.
I was spanked once...I acted out at a store...when I got home, I got a spanking.
Never acted out again. It can be effective
Hail The PitGodess!
Danger & Disrespect were two reasons I spanked. I guarantee that spanking a 3 year old who has taken off running into a busy street is preferable to the alternative. If my daughter was acting up in public or disrespecting her elders she would get a swat for that as well. It was a form of getting attention when the child was incapable of rational thought. It works every time and only needs to be used on those rare occasions. There are many forms of discipline and the bottom line is... if you are using it a lot, it isn't working and it's time to try and new method. But, if spanking is being used to humiliate the child, that is just wrong.
I think it depends on the situation. If parents feel spanking is an appropriate punishment, the government shouldn't interfere with their parenting, unless it becomes abusive (hitting/slapping face, punching, kicking, spanking hard enough to bruise, etc.). I do think it should only be the parents decission, and teachers/childcare providers shouldn't be allowed to spank children (as a preschool worker I wouldn't want to have to decide when to spank other people's kids), but that's another debate.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure." - Marianne Williamson
Some children are too hardheaded to respond to any other sort of punishment. Alot of times, if implimented correctly, you may only have to swat the childs bottom once or twice, and then the mere idea that if they push it too far they will get a swat is enough.
I'm anti-abuse, but pro-spanking.
I agree with you, I'm personally against spanking because I feel there are much better ways of dealing with the situation, no matter how out of control things get.
I think it creates this cycle of kids feeling like they deserved to be hit and being taught that it is ok to hit their own kids one day. I am more concerned about the psychological effects that the physical effects.
I think it teaches kids to think they shouldn't do something simply because it will get them a spanking, rather than realize WHY what they were doing was wrong. I think they'll just find smarter ways to get away with things when no one is looking and still not understand why their actions were wrong.
There are many other issues involved...how hard is too hard? What age is too young? When is the child too old to be spanked? The parents will have to use other punishment options when the child becomes a teenager anyway.
One of my coworkers had a kid in elementary school. At this school they encouraged students to report if their parents ever hit them. Well after recieving some punishment his kid went to the teachers, and they sent DCFS after them.
Two men showed up and asked him what was going on.
He asked if "they had ever had any reason to come to his house before"
"No"
"Does my child have any bruises?"
"No"
"THen why are you here"
They left and nothing happend, but parents should decide what is and what is not abuse not outsiders looking in.
"Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil."-C.S. Lewis
Ridiculous. Some parents would not consider beating the shit out of their child to be abuse. Some parents would not consider severe verbal abuse to be abuse. Some people would not consider sexual abuse to be abuse.
I don't think spanking HELPS a child. However making something so mild and socially acceptable illegal is way too far. If it is to be made illegal the process should be much slower.