So I was watching TV at my great uncle’s house last night and al jazera happened to be on. I could not believe my eyes. Fathers and mothers were running from crumbling houses while holding the dead bodies of their children. Israel keeps launching attacks on civilians and we are letting them do this. I guess it’s because we support Israel that their blatant defiance of all things humane is just brushed aside. They are killing civilians yet the second bullet on the summary report for CNN on the issue is “Gaza fired at least 25 rockets into Israel on Sunday; 2 civilians injured”. The last bullet, however, is “More than 70 Palestinians killed in Gaza since Friday”. Why is it that 70 people being killed is less important than 2 people being killed? I am outraged, infuriated and disappointed all rolled into one. Why are the Palestinians not considered civilians? The power of words is once again being conveyed. It’s as though the media doesn’t consider innocent Palestinian children to be civilians. It doesn’t matter that they were perhaps reading book when a missile went through their house. It doesn’t matter that they were probably tying their shoes and about to leave their house to play soccer outside because they are Palestinians. Being a Palestinian is equal to being apart of the PLO or of Hamas in the media’s eyes. Hamas is the barbarian not the children so don’t blame them for being born into that part of the world.
I am disappointed the media and the government for their continued support of Israel. It is as though they are golden child of America and they can do no wrong. Yet they are constantly doing wrong. They are constantly killing and occupying Palestine and it’s not right. Why do we support those that bring terror to others? Why don’t we step up to this bully and tell them to stop hurting others? These two countries are on the brick of war once again and Palestine has the alliance of most Arab countries. If this is not stopped now, we will be facing another World War. All Israel needs to do is pull out of what is left of Palestine. Let these people live in peace, once and for all. It’s been 60 years of occupation and all that it is doing is breeding more and more anger. I am not saying that the Palestinians have angels because believe when I tell you they have not. Yet maybe if they are given some space, some room to breathe, they can finally understand what it is to be free in their own “country”. So Israel stop being a bully.
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
And have you actually studied the subject at all? Or are you getting your information from propoganda on television?
You are saying that millions of people should be expelled from their country so Muslims can have ANOTHER country (they already have 26). Look what happened to Gaza after Israel pulled out. It's hell to live there now. The Hamas completely controls the streets. Kids are being inducted into it. People are starving, violence is everywhere, and Israel is under attack. It was a huge mistake to pull out.
What do you think Israel should do? Ignore the thousands of rockets that have been fired into its territory? Let the terrorists completely take over?
I suggest doing some actual reseach from unbiased sources before assuming you know anything about the country I grew up in.
The country you grew up in. You’re admitting to being a settler in the occupied Palestinian territory that from the people there to the UN wants you out. You want pity; try being the people you kicked. Try being the people that now live on the streets or in camps because their home was bulldozed over by the IDF. You are the reason that these children are being inducted to Hamas. They know no better life because the homes their grandparents wanted them to live in are now the rumble you walk on every day.
I think Israel should stop barbaric bombing and actually allow some peace talks to occur. If you have listening, you would that it was President Abbas who had to call off the peace talks because the Israeli’s were killing his civilians. Why should Abbas talk to a country that is killing the future of this struggling territory?
And please don’t tell me that I know anything about the country you grew up in because I grew up there too. My whole family resides there and I was supposed to be a member of the IDF yet I chose not to be apart of a terrorist faction. So I am pretty I have a great understanding of what is going on there. And please stop referring to it as a Muslim country. Last time I checked, Christianity was born in Palestine. Many Palestinians are Christians so it would not just be a Muslim country.
“You are saying that millions of people should be expelled from their country so Muslims can have ANOTHER country” So obviously you are saying that expelling people from their country is wrong, right? So it okay to assume that you believe what Israel did and continues to do since 1948 is wrong. Thank you so very much for proving my point.
Many Palestinians are Christian? Bullshit. A TINY minority of Arabs living in Israel are Christian. The VAST, OVERWHELMING majority of Arabs in Israel - particularly those who want it as their own country - are Muslim.
Take a look at Gaza. ISRAEL PULLED OUT. It's pure HELL in there now. Take a look at how Palestinians fared BEFORE the occupation. They have schools now, hospitals, electricty, running water. Take a look at how every single Muslim country treats its women - and take a look at how your average Arab Muslim in Israel treats women. There's still forced marriage at young age, there's still wife beating, child abuse, honor killings, etc. And you would support such a society existing?
Your family lives in Israel, hm? Have YOU lived in Israel? I have lived there for fifteen years, OUTSIDE the wall, btw, and a ten-minute walk from three different Arab villages.
Why should Israel have peace talks with people who are bombing them?
What do you suggest Israel does about the rockets? IGNORE them? Peace talks aren't helping! We've tried that time and time again. We pulled out of Gaza and it turned out to be a huge mistake. Pulling out of the West Bank now would lead to the same situation as Gaza - not to mention, expell thousands of people from their homes. Homes they have just as much right to, even more right to, than the Palestinians. (An example - twenty years ago, the guy who founded my town bought a great deal of land. It took time to settle all the land and the last section is not yet settled. In the past twenty years, refugees thrown out of Jordan (ever wonder why there are so many refugees in Israel? BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WILL TAKE THEM) settled there illegally and are now trying to claim that they've been there for generations.
Expelling people from their homes is very wrong. It happens sometime in war, however. Israel has been remarkably benevolent towards its enemy - the enemy that declared war on it with the intention of "throwing all the Jews into the sea". Most Palestinians who left in '48 left without even seeing a single Israeli soldier. During war, yes, people have to leave their homes. and during war, the winner conquers the loser. In this case, the winner allowed the loser to continue living in their country, to even receive services like schools, hospitals, etc. The average life expectancy has SOARED under Israeli "occupation". There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that if Israel expelled millions of people (who would go... where?) and handed the land over to fundamentalist Muslims that ANYONE would fare better except terrorists and abusers.
I will state and once again state I HAVE LIVED IN ISRAEL. So we are equal in that sense. Obviously we were both brought up different. Don’t take offense but it seems that you were raised to believe Arabs were the enemy. I, on the other hand, was raised to believe that it isn’t the Jews that are causing all this strife it is government. So I don’t blame you for what is going on there as much as I don’t blame an average Israeli. I just want to get my position on the subject straight. Israel keeps crossing the line of humane actions. And don’t try to pull some bullshit about Hamas being the one and only terrorist because the IDF is as much as a terrorist as Hamas.
Tell me now did Israel really pull out of Gaza? Obviously the daily targeting of so-called terrorist and really killing children is staying out of Gaza. And tell me what did you expect Gaza to be like after Israel “pulled out”. Did you really expect Gaza to be the land unicorns and ponies? Israel left Gaza completely destroyed. After so many attacks how do you expect a territory to rebuild so quickly. It is nearly impossible especially when it is blocked off from the rest of the world. Let them have contact with real people and see the strides they will make.
If you want to go there with how Muslim men treat women why don’t we explore how Hasidic men treat women. The Hasidic women have no rights and hardly ever get married outside of their own family. How can you support such a society? We can volley this idea back and forth until we grow old. We both don’t understand cultures other than our own, so why fight this battle?
Peace talks are made between enemies and not friends. That is why Israel should have peace talks with Palestine maybe then the bombings will stop. I’m not saying ignore the rockets but should Palestine ignore the soldiers or the bulldozers?
“ever wonder why there are so many refugees in Israel? BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WILL TAKE THEM” Wow if that isn’t a statement made with hate I don’t know what is. The reason there are so many refugees in Israel is because every time they think they are safe they ar put out on the streets by the bulldozers. BTW Israel denies Jordanians access, do you really think refugees would even be able to get in country? The other reason is because certain groups of Jews take land they claim is promised to them in Torah away from Palestinians who have been living there for decades. Yet that is okay because your version of God says it’s okay. What you fail to realize is we, Christians, Muslims and Jews are all brothers of the book and believe in the same God.
I am so glad you allowed us to continue living in the homes we built. It was gracious of you. It only took us sixty years to buy it back. And thank you so much for allowing us to pay taxes so we, lower class citizens, can have insurance. And yes it was all thanks to the Israeli occupation that the life expectancy has soared. This has nothing to do with strides the world has made in health care. Thank you so much for allowing me to live until I am eighty. I could not have done it with out you.
Please correct me if I am wrong but when did I say that you should hand over the country of Israel. I just said that Israel should stop being a bully and give back Palestine. Learn to live in peace not in hate.
I will state and once again state I HAVE LIVED IN ISRAEL.
My apologies, I misunderstood. What part of Israel did you live in?
Don’t take offense but it seems that you were raised to believe Arabs were the enemy. I, on the other hand, was raised to believe that it isn’t the Jews that are causing all this strife it is government. So I don’t blame you for what is going on there as much as I don’t blame an average Israeli.
Certainly not. Many around me believed that, and many Arabs around me believed it about Jews, but I certainly did not.
If you don't blame the average Israel, why are you blaming "Israel"? Say "The Israeli government" which I'd like to remind you includes quite a few strongly left-wing people, including Arabs. Personally I blame first and foremost the Palestinian government and terrorist groups, certain Arab countries like Jordan that caused the refugee problem, and Arab society/culture... then, I blame the Israeli government.
And don’t try to pull some bullshit about Hamas being the one and only terrorist because the IDF is as much as a terrorist as Hamas.
Sadly no, there are many terrorist groups besides the Hamas, such as the Hizbollah and the Fatah. However the IDF is certainly not a terrorist group. The IDF is an organized army that can be identified by their uniform. They are required to follow laws set down by Israel, Europe, the UN, the US, and the world. The IDF has time and time again taken extra-ordinary precautions against the loss of innocent life, and has many times even sacrified its own men for that. Sadly, sometimes innocents die in war, including children. Often this is NOT the IDF's fault but rather the terrorists who shoot out of populated apartment buildings, out of crowds of people (often stone-throwing youth), etc. SOldiers have gone to trial and been imprisoned for negligent behavior. It is absolutely forbidden to target an innocent person or to not take every precaution to avoid loss of human life.
The Hamas, on the other hand, recruits children to carry out attacks and even suicide bombings. They do not wear uniforms, they can't be identified. They force people to join their ranks, unlike the IDF (despite the draft, there are many options outside and within the army that do not include combat). They repeatedly declare their goal is to obliterate Israel. They frequently target innocents, particularly children - and I'm talking here about innocents who aren't even NEAR any fighting and are often in fact Arab or Muslim themselves!
Shit happens in war, but there's a huge difference between deliberate harm and not. O.o
Obviously the daily targeting of so-called terrorist and really killing children is staying out of Gaza.
See above comment about the effort the IDF goes to to protect civilians... the IDF has no reason whatsoever to target children. x.x
And tell me what did you expect Gaza to be like after Israel “pulled out”. Did you really expect Gaza to be the land unicorns and ponies? Israel left Gaza completely destroyed. After so many attacks how do you expect a territory to rebuild so quickly. It is nearly impossible especially when it is blocked off from the rest of the world. Let them have contact with real people and see the strides they will make.
That is precisely why I was against it in the first place. The IDF should've at least stayed to keep the civilians safe from the Hamas. Now, instead of living "free from the occupation", the Hamas is occupying Gaza under even worse conditions. People in Gaza can make no great strides while they are under a terrorist rule. Gaza has become a launching pad for attacks against Israel and Israeli civilians, hateful propoganda fills its schools and television, terrorists are held up as heroes, and even children are trained to murder.
Oh, and btw... all those people the IDF kicked out of Gaza when they pulled out? They LEFT a lot of stuff. Like top-rate greenhouses, which could've been used to feed people and to provide employment. Instead, those greenhouses were destroyed by the very people they were supposed to help. What exactly has Israel gained from pulling out of Gaza? Nothing - the situation is even more dangerous now.
If you want to go there with how Muslim men treat women why don’t we explore how Hasidic men treat women. The Hasidic women have no rights and hardly ever get married outside of their own family. How can you support such a society? We can volley this idea back and forth until we grow old. We both don’t understand cultures other than our own, so why fight this battle?
Note that I was referring to Arab-Muslim men in the middle-east, not progressive/liberal Arab-Muslims (mostly in the Western world, but also in the middle-east). I don't think they can be compared to Hasidic women (in fact, I think you are referring to ultra-Orthodox, not Hasidim). It's common and accepted for a man to beat his wife severely - that is NOT acceptable in ultra-Orthodox communities. Ultra-Orthodox communities don't have such high rates of rape, horrific child abuse (including such practices as female genital mutiliation and particularly harsh abuse of female children), and domestic violence. Also, women in those communities aren't forced to marry at an extremely early age, and generally DO have a choice about who they marry. That is generally not the case in areas like Gaza and in fact most of the middle-east.
Not totally understanding other cultures doesn't mean I should accept them. O.o
Peace talks are made between enemies and not friends. That is why Israel should have peace talks with Palestine maybe then the bombings will stop. I’m not saying ignore the rockets but should Palestine ignore the soldiers or the bulldozers?
Israel HAS had peace talks with the Palestinians, many times. They came to nothing. The bombings didn't stop. Israel can't just sit around and TALK pointlessly while people are being killed and every single day dozens of terrorist make attempts at attacks.
Wow if that isn’t a statement made with hate I don’t know what is.
Why on earth do you feel it was a statement made in hate? O.o
The reason there are so many refugees in Israel is because every time they think they are safe they ar put out on the streets by the bulldozers.
Why then don't they move to a country like, hm, Jordan, Egypt, or Syria, where they might be treated better? Why are they still living in "camps" instead of in proper housing? Why are they not taking steps to apply for citizenship and educate themselves and their children? Because it is for the Arab countries advantage if they are still "refugees".
BTW Israel denies Jordanians access, do you really think refugees would even be able to get in country?
I'm referring to Arabs in Israel moving to Jordan. They can't, because Jordan won't take them, and neither will any other Arab country. Israel is the only one who will at least provide them with some shelter and food and education and healthcare...
And Israel denies Jordanians access? That's funny, most of the people in the village just above my town are refugees kicked out of Jordan...
The other reason is because certain groups of Jews take land they claim is promised to them in Torah away from Palestinians who have been living there for decades.
Certainly not all Jews, however... and I'll remind you, Jews have been (in larger or smaller amounts) in Israel for the past three thousand years, and they were also the main reason so many Arabs moved to Israel (introducing agriculture, draining the swamps, bringing new jobs).
I am so glad you allowed us to continue living in the homes we built. It was gracious of you. It only took us sixty years to buy it back. And thank you so much for allowing us to pay taxes so we, lower class citizens, can have insurance.
Um, most the homes Arabs live in were built in the past two decades. And a huge percentage of them were built illegally on land that did not belong to it.
Hm, I doubt most Arabs pay taxes due to high unemployment rates. Most GET money from the government for everything from health care to education to food and shelter. Unfortunately, most of that money doesn't reach the people who need it, but goes into the PA's or the Fatah's or the Hamas' pocket.
And yes it was all thanks to the Israeli occupation that the life expectancy has soared.
You disagree? That's odd. Because under Jordanian rule - and huge medical advancements were being made then, too - Palestinians had a fairly short life expectancy. Yet under Israeli rule, their life expectancy jumped 20 years... because Israel actually allows them access to these medical advancements, and helps in additional ways like providing water, food, schools, hospitals, doctors, etc.
All Israel needs to do is pull out of what is left of Palestine.
You said this in your original post.
---------------------------------------------------
Please see my recent blog post, "Genocide and Student Activism": http://www.progressiveu.org/041447-genocide-and-student-activism
Not understanding a culture is a reason you should not pass judgment on them. You do not how they live their lives or their traditions. Islam is one of the most peaceful religions there is; it is the radicals that shed the bad light on it.
I have a question for you because I really didn’t understand what you meant. You said that you blame the Arab society/culture. What about the culture do you blame? Arab is a very small word for a large group of people with a variety of cultural traits. Christian, Muslim and even Jewish Arabs all have different traditions.
You make assumptions that the IDF is an angel and does no wrong against the innocent yet time and time again the IDF will prove you wrong. Example one, January 9, 2001 Father Elie Kurzum was driving his car with the Vatican Flags. In the car with him were the Bishop Marcuzzo and Father Elias Odeh. Instead of being allowed to enter the West Bank and the town they were destined to the IDF raised their guns at them. They attempted to back up and the IDF opened fire at church officials who were trying to bring hope to those in that community. The IDF have also been denying medical officials from accessing the sick. Since when is one government in charge of another’s people. These sick and dying innocents who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Is that their fault?
In case you were wondering Hezbollah is a part of this conversation for they are not a part of Palestine. They are Lebanon and a whole other issue.
You keep expecting Palestinians to remarkable bounce back from their oppression. Let’s look at the situation differently. Say that you are in high school and you have issues with self-esteem. On top of that everyone makes fun of you. You start to hate yourself and get so low that everything you feel you do is wrong. Now people stop making fun of you and now you are expected to be rid of those issues. It can’t happen the next day. It is a long process to rebuild and it doesn’t help that every time you are starting to feel better someone knocks you down. It’s why people can make strides under occupation. They are trying to fight their own demons and are becoming weaker because the outside world won’t back down.
I think you need to see Paradise Now. It might open your eyes to the struggle these people go through. It makes you see what the families of these people go through because for the most part the families have no clue. You need to see that these people are being brainwashed into thinking that Israel is the devil. It is not the devil; it is just an oppressing factor in their life. This movie gives the reasons why some people do these inhumane acts but does not condone it. I am suggesting this movie in a celebratory why of suicide bombings; I am suggesting this movie as window into their minds so maybe we can figure out how to change that thought process. Another movie I would think you need to see is a documentary that aired on HBO in 2003 called Death in Gaza. It was supposed to show both the Palestinian strife as well as the Israeli strife. The documentary only got as far as the Palestinian side because the IDF shot and killed the British reporter as he held a white flag and was wearing UN clothing. The ending takes you for a surprise. Just watch it and see what they go through.
You say that the Palestinians should move out of their homeland. Talk about identity crisis. What will they be now? Obviously not Jordanians or Syrians. You want they give up their homes, the last pieces of their culture and when someone loses their culture they lose who they are. They have no identity; they don’t exist. Why should they move out of their homeland, the place their family has resided for decades? All it would allow was for foreigners to move in and then receive more rights than they would ever have. How is that fair? And how do you suppose they apply for citizenship when Palestine isn’t even considered a country? Do you want them to be a part of Israel? I really don’t think Israel would take them. You want them to educate themselves but how can they do that when they have no money? They may get some money from tourism but most people are too afraid to go and visit, and who would blame them?
You claim that most homes Arabs live in where built in the last two decades. Can you even really believe that statement? Most homes have been there for over 50 years. They are the ones who after the war lost all rights in their own homes and have been trying to buy it from the government or have to give up their history.
Additional points you need to know- In December 1998 President Clinton witnessed the Palestinian leaders all renounce the call that was made for the destruction of Israel. Sure there are some that want Israel gone just as there are those who want Palestine gone but for the most part all they want to be is independent. You say that the IDF hits the terrorist but what about the massacre that occurred in 2002 in Jenin. A refugee camp was destroyed and 5,222 civilians were killed but its okay because they were war. Or what about Beit Hanoun in 2006, where all the water pipes were cut and the telephone lines were destroyed. The people were given a curfew, this all resulting from what trigger because I can’t find the reason for this. Last but not least, (forgive me for I cannot remember the name of the book or the prominent priest but he is the one who created the university for Muslims, Christians and Jews to all openly attend in peace) the priest who was playing soccer as teenage who lost his soccer ball and when he thought he found it and kicked it was really a skull. Unbeknownst to him he had stumble upon a mass grave of Palestinians but once again that was okay because it was war time.
I'm going to reply to this bit by bit, since it's a huge topic. I used to debate it a lot... but it's such a personal subject to me and I've debated it so much I just got exhausted. So... this is my first Israel debate in quite a while, feel honored. :) It just might take me a bit because I'm very serious about my debating - I really, really want to convince you, and I know the only way I'm going to do that is by completely understanding your POV. So, lots of research.
Not understanding a culture is a reason you should not pass judgment on them. You do not how they live their lives or their traditions. Islam is one of the most peaceful religions there is; it is the radicals that shed the bad light on it.
I can pass judgements on some things, however. For instance, forcing a young girl into marriage is not okay. I don't care why a culture does it, it's still not okay and it's not moral. I believe in a universal set of morals - a universal wrong and right. It's very simple really - harming another being is wrong.
I agree with you about Islam though - one of my closest friends, a person who I consider to be my mentor in every part of my life (if you've read Harry Potter, think Dumbledore), is Muslim. He is extremely peaceful in every way and in fact pro-Israel. I have also met Muslims who I thought were peaceful but in fact were not. For instance, after years of knowing a lovely Arab-Muslim woman in the nearby village, I discovered that she thought that the killing of men was moral and fine by Islam. And she also believed that her abusive husband was the proper ruler of the family, and married off her extremely intelligent daughter to a guy who doesn't let her go to college.
More clarification in the next bit:
I have a question for you because I really didn’t understand what you meant. You said that you blame the Arab society/culture. What about the culture do you blame? Arab is a very small word for a large group of people with a variety of cultural traits. Christian, Muslim and even Jewish Arabs all have different traditions.
Okay, that definitely needs clarifying. When I say "Muslim" I am usually referring (unless I say otherwise) to a Muslim who is fundamentalist and violent. Arab culture = the middle-east. Namely, Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Yemen, Bahrain, Quatar, Oman, UAE, and Saudia Arabia. NONE of those countries, with the exception of Israel, is a democracy. All have horrendous human rights abuses: female genital multiliation, child abuse and rape, forced child marriages, lack of education, child labor, people put to death for being gay, women have no freedom, little freedom of speech and religion, etc.
The main reason why I do not support a Palestinian state is because it would just be another Arab country with human rights abuses. I believe that the Arab-Muslim countries who claim to be the Palestinian's friends should start acting on their claims and invite Palestinians to immigrate, instead of forcing them to stay in ridiculous "refugee camps" in Israel. Those who choose to stay in Israel should be integrated as full citizens with every right given to a citizen of the only democratic country in the Middle-East.
Basically, although I know there are many important exceptions, I have a pretty low view of Arab culture AS A WHOLE, AT THE MOMENT. (That is not to say Arab culture has not been amazing in the past - it has been).
I hope that clears up my POV a bit? And also explains a little more about why I feel the way I do about Palestinians.
Will respond more later.
See this makes me sad. Your negative experiences with different Arabs have made you have a low view of Arabs. Believe me we are not all bad. I am a Christian Arab and to tell you the truth I don't understand some of the cultures of the Muslim tradition. But I love Palestine. It is my home and it I feel proud to be a Palestinian even when everyone around me tells me I should be ashamed. I feel as though I am a rarity because when I once told my teacher my background he looked at me and said "I've never seen a real live one before". That hurts that we don't exist and if we do exist we are automatically assumed to be a terrorist. Arabs are giving people. My culture tells me never to turn down someone who askes for a place to stay or a cup of water. My culture teaches me to treat everyone as a person and to look past what they "are" and look at who they are. If you look past the stereotypical image of an Arab you will see that we have the biggest hearts there are.
The issue is we want to still say we are Palestinians. We don't want to leave and give up what we are just like Israeli's wouldn't want to give up what they are. It is unfair to only give them the options of moving to another country or becoming apart of yours.
Your negative experiences with different Arabs have made you have a low view of Arabs. Believe me we are not all bad. I am a Christian Arab and to tell you the truth I don't understand some of the cultures of the Muslim tradition.
I do not think you are all bad. I do however tend to have a low view of Middle-Eastern Arab-Muslims. That low view, however, does not extent to individuals.
You're a Christian Arab. Precisely. You're a very small minority of the Palestinian people. You live in a different society, with a different culture. Muslim-Arabs are FAR different, particularly those who are conservative (i.e., most of the middle-east).
The issue is we want to still say we are Palestinians. We don't want to leave and give up what we are just like Israeli's wouldn't want to give up what they are. It is unfair to only give them the options of moving to another country or becoming apart of yours.
"Palestine" was the name given to Israel by a Roman empire, in order to try and make it less of a homeland for the Jews.
How is it not fair to offer someone every right that every other person in that country has? Should America give back its land to the Native Americans now?
Muslim-Arabs already have 26 countries. The Jews have one tiny one. Muslim-Arab countries tend to be non-democratic and have horrific human rights abuses. There is no way I would support ANOTHER Muslim-Arab country.
Please explain this: what on earth is the problem with becoming a legal citizen, having all the rights you deserve, living wherever you want, and still calling yourself a Palestinian? It's the same country, it's just two different words for the same place.
FIlter what the news tells you. ***
***Edited by engkatiemarie 03/23/08 @ 10:49 AM EST
Interesting. I don't watch the news, and I don't read newspapers.
***
***Edited by engkatiemarie 03/23/08 @ 10:50 AM EST
There is no need to return the "personal attacks" or address issues you have with another user publicly. Flagging is enough; this conversation is at an end.
So you just pull all your beliefs about disliking the middle eater arabs on your own, traveled there?
Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
...I've lived in the middle-east for fifteen years. I've met many, many Muslim Arabs. I've also studied other middle-eastern countries at length. I suggest you do some actual research on women's rights in the middle east.
I wasn't aware you spent time there.. I'm sure that was informative. I dont really need to research their rights, I'm aware they have near none, just the right to mistreatment..
Everything, you have done, and will do, is chemically predisposed by matter, even the fact you are reading this message. You make no choices, only perceive a given reality.
i am sorry i meant this:
I am not suggesting this movie in a celebratory why of suicide bombings
ohhh btw. I also found this recent article supporting the issue that Israel needs to stop its agressive offense towards Gaza and Palestine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7280026.stm
We dont stop the bully cause we are the bully, we dont just not attack isreal, we provide them with weapons and troops. We're the terror propaganda machine, the only stings being pulled are by us. We're the ones that revolve around the currency, not the muslim people, they revolve around their male power trip and their religion, not wealth. So whos more likely to be starting the wars over money, us or them?
Who has a democratic populous to shape into an ignorant bunch of war mongerers us. More and more, it makes more and more sense, that we're the problem, but the US gets to play good cop bad cop, for whatever reason the rest of the world allows it(so far). Where part of our populous agrees and part disagrees, they make both public, so then anyone that attacks feel like their hitting a portion thats on their side.
I think other countries need to learn from this, just act like half of them love us, and we might not bomb their homes, ruin their hopes and dreams and lives... ha.. the worlds one big reality T.V. cat fight with no one stepping into anyone elses shoes, cause their a bunch of self-centered ignorant plebians..