How would you feel about publicly pledging your virginity to your dad?
All across the country girls from age 7 and above are getting all dolled up to go on dates with their dads to special dances called Purity Balls. There, they dance, eat cake, have fun and publicly pledge their sexual purity to their dads.
Purity Balls were created some time in the 1990's by Randy Wilson, a fundamentalist Christian and a father of seven. The event and the pledges are based on fundamentalist CHristian teachings and passages in the Bible. The events are meant to create a strong bond between father and daughter(s) while emphasizing a father's role in protecting his daughter's sexual purity until the point that he hands her over to her future husband. The girls pledge before their father's and God to stay "pure" until marriage. Many father-daughter couples engage rings to symbolize their vows.
Not surprisingly, these Balls are most popular with well-off, fundamentalist Christian families that home-school their children. Most of the girls involved believe that no kind of sexual behavior, including kissing, is okay before marriage. Purity, in the sense that these fathers and daughters are pledging to, means no sort of sexual thoughts, feelings, or behaviors until the girls are married.
Now that I've laid the ground work... Let's see what's wrong with Purity Balls
First of all, the age at which they begin to have these girls pledge to maintain sexual purity. I understand that they want to start'em young, before anything can happen, but girls at age 7,8, or 9 can't conceive of what purity of the mind and body means, much less pledge to it. I don't think even girls as old as 12 or 13 are fully aware of what they're committing to.
Second, these pledges only set these girls up for failure. This is a high pressure situation. These girls have made vows before their parents and God and their parents fully expect their daughter to keep their commitment. It's impossible for a healthy teenager to not have any sexual thoughts or feelings for the length of their adolescence. So total purity of mind goes out the window. Everytime they think about sex is breaking their pledge, which has to weigh them down with guilt. What if these girls change their minds? What if, by age 17 or 18 they realize that making out with a guy isn't the worst thing they could do? It would be a total let down to their parents if they ever found out one of their daughters had a physical relationship with a guy they weren't married to. Girls that do end up changing their minds are wracked with guilt for years afterward.
Third, and most importantly in this particular instance of abstinence-pledging, is that its pretty creepy to have your dad pledge to protect the sanctity of your body and harbor your virginity as a precious gift. It can't be healthy to have your relationship with your dad so involved with your status as a virgin. What kind of father obsesses that much about their daughters' sexuality that they periodically have their daughters pledge to remain pure and have themselves vow before God to protect their virginity? I don't know if anyone saw Joe Simpson give Jessica Simpson away at her wedding, but he gave a whole speech about how Jessica remained a virgin up until marriage. I found that slightly disgusting, and that's nothing compared to Purity Balls. You shouldn't be associating your love for your father with your sexual purity and your father shouldn't be associating his love for you with maintaining your virginity. It just feels wrong, and ever so slightly incestuous.
Not to mention, these pledges made by these fathers are representative of the controlling relationship they have with their daughters. By vowing to maintain their daughters sexual purity, they essentially dictate their daughters' sexuality until they hand them over to their husbands (same way the Taliban does it). At that point, their sexuality is supposed to belong to their husbands. These girls don't ever date. They courted by young men of their fathers' choosing. At what point do these girls ever take ownership of their own sexuality and make decisions for themselves? Looks like never. What kind of women are produced from these kinds of father-daughter relationship?
Last but not least, the problem I have with abstinence-pledging in general, especially Purity Balls because of the extreme level of pressure to not break your pledge, is that it isn't healthy to repress sexuality, especially in adolescents, who are growing and maturing into the core of who they will be as adults. Sexually repressed adolescents make fucked up adults, generally speaking. You can't work through years of sexual repression on your wedding night. It's just not that easy. People at the Abstinence Clearinghouse, major supporters of Purity Balls, argue that having any sort of boyfriend or girlfriend, especially one with which you have any sort of physical relationship, emotionally damages you and leads to divorce when you finally get married. So much for emotional growth, learning what it means to be in a romantic relationship, and learning what kind of people you're compatible with. Screw dating, your parents will pick you the perfect person for you the first time around.
Some final notes: Purity Balls happen annually in 48 states. Almost 100% of attendees are white. They are fully supported and federally funded by President Bush. Yes, the President gives hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to fund Purity Balls. There is no Purity Ball equivalent for boys.
The links below are sites and video clips where you can learn more about Purity Balls. The official site has copies of the vows for the fathers and daughters. I encourage everyone to watch the clip from Aljazeera English because it interviews a whole family that participates in Purity Balls.
Glamour Magazine Article on Purity Balls
Another Blog's Post on Purity Balls
I had never heard of this before. I think that this is incredibly wrong, and on top of that, I wonder how many of these men themselves had refrained from any sexual activity or kissing or masturbating for that matter before they got married.
This reminds me of my friend who is obviously gay. He talks like a typical portrayal of a homosexual on television, yet he swears he cannot help it. I believe him because he is NOT out of the closet and feels ashamed of his homosexuality, YET his dad goes out of his way to talk about how homosexuality is wrong and sinful.
I cannot even begin to imagine the guilt and pressure that these girls will go through. If I made a list of good and bad things that come from religion, especially religious fanatacism like this, I know for a fact that the bad list stretch on for a much longer distance.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -F.N.
Hm, interesting how the guys/boys virginity isn't mentioned much in stories like this in general, typical bullshit double standard, imo.
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"You're asking me to *read*?! I'm not even in class...and just to think I had to put on pants for this."
~npsm18
Best video evar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD8qubsp39M
It is wholly natural to have sexual thoughts, but responsibility and maturity calls on one to look past the petty "I WANT I WANT!"
And, despite what npsm18 thinks, such things exist for boys as well. It is not 'typical bullship double standard.'
I am often amazed at how there is a great call to be open-minded of other's ways, unless that other happens to be a christian. Then it is ok to hate them.
I would be interested to see an example of these things for guys. Unless your talking about Silver Ring Thing, because what II would like to see if there is something like Purity Balls for guys in the sense that their parents vow to guard their virginity or even just where they make abstinence vows in front of their parents. Let me know if you know of something like that.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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well, boys don't tend to like dances... so a 'ball' wouldn't really fly well. Girls tend to enjoy those MUCH more than boys. But boy things I've heard of are churches haveing 'Purity Camps" where they'll take a father-son camping trip maybe a dozen or so at a time, and have the same "wait until you're married" speeches and the same calls for boys to be pure.
There are normally calls for the father to look out for the son and a commitment to always be there for the son to talk to and for the father to be a good example of what a man is SUPPOSED to be.
These 'purity balls' have been going on for a long time, around a decade or longer, but really don't get much press... but they do have a version for the boys as well as the girls.
I'd like to see a website or article about the version for boys. I would find it interesting to compare the rhetoric regarding both events.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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look it up. Google is a wonderful (though horridly liberal) thing.
How can a search engine be liberal? It brings you information based on search terms that YOU enter. Are you saying that Google naturally places liberally minded sites at the top of a search? Does Google only run liberal advertising?
Is there no end to conservatives moaning about the liberal media bias, even when that media is acting only as a middle man? Perhaps the internet in general has a liberal bias? Next anything in print will be liberal and anything on television will be liberal and only AM radio will be safe.
Conservatives run most media companies. They are concerned with one thing, making money. Liberalness sells. That's the root of the great liberal conspiracy. Conservatives are pure in their pursuit of profit and will print or televise anything that brings them profits.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
Jesus Christ he was being sarcastic.
to the political parties continually complaining about how the other is wrong. Why oh why doesn't the liberal just leave the traditional family alone, Oh why dont the bigotted conservatives just accept that times must change.
where did this argument start from anyway. From purity to political parties, that's it I'm not buying it anymore.
Good day
... and OMG those ridiculously apathetic idealistic liberals... when will they learn that God is the only route?
*snicker*
Christians frown upon Islamic traditions as well, so it's not important to be relativistic (something a lot of these arguments for purity balls are calling for) in judging whether something is right or wrong. Christians have no problem in judging an Islamic practice as evil or degrading.
If you're talking about my reference to the Taliban in the post, it wasn't meant so much as a comparison of religious doctrine as much as comparing cultures' views of women's rights and roles. I would consider fundmentalist Christianty to have a culture, as well as extremist views of Islam. Purity Balls represent a treatment of women's roles within fundmentalist Christian culture that is similar to that of extreme Islamic groups.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Are you really comparing christians to islamic extremists?
I mean.... really?
come on now.
Generally speaking, both fundamentalist Christians and Islamic extremists believe in a strict interpretation of their respective religious texts, both groups are patriarchical, and both have traditions of fathers taking ownership for their daughters until the point at which they hand them over to their husbands. So, yes, for the purpose of my discussion of Purity Balls, I am comparing these two groups.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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because asking your daughter to not have sex until marriage is like islamic extremist how?
One is asking a daughter to not have sex. The other involves asking the daughter to strap on explosives, run to a pizza parlor and blow themselves up.
Let's not water down the dangers of islamic extremists by comparing them to virgins. Ok?
I don't believe that the point of the whole thing was to compare EVERY aspect of both of the religions. There are many similarities in that they both ask their daughters to keep their virginity until marriage. They both choose who their daughts will marry. They are asking for impossible things like holding back any sexual desires until marriage.
there was nothing said about bombing for religion that has anything to do with this post. That's a completely different topic and that part of religion was never mentioned in the blog.
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"Is it true, said Candide, that people in Paris are always laughing?"
-Voltaire
I don't know if you are still on here, but you are completely wrong about Islamic beliefs. It is only the portrayal of a few that have ruined the whole image of the religion. I suggest you read my blog The Misshapen View of the Islamic World (http://www.progressiveu.org/172632-misshapen-view-islamic-world) before you go around saying stuff like that.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nharris1032
Umm, what's the difference? Have you read Dinesh D'Souza who blamed all the liberals for 9/11-- where believes that Islamic terrorists wouldn't have carried out 9/11 had they known that Christians and they had much in common?
And abhorrent Islamic tradition doesn't just have to be suicide bombing. It's about honor killings and the way that in these societies, where males control female sexuality, there are stark inequalities.
What's the difference between christians wanting their children to not have sex until marriage, and islamic extremists who believe that terrorism is the will of Allah?
That I might have to EXPLAIN the difference between the two is very scary.
You are focusing entirely on the terrorist aspect of fundamentalist Islam. There are many Fundamentalist Islam theocracies that don't, or wouldn't, support suicide bombers, but still adhere to a doctrine that turns women into the property of their fathers until they can be turned over to their husbands. Fathers are their daughter's brokers, making sure that they are well maintained and pure for the future husband .
The daughter's virginity is viewed basically as an extra bonus on the wedding market. It enhances her value among guys that the father feels are worthy of his daughter.
Both fundamentalist Christians and Muslims treat women as commodities and things to be protected, rather than people to be raised. It is a common aspect of both religions. You will also notice that fundamentalist Christians are responsible for quite a few acts of terrorism as well. Not on the scale of Fundamentalist Islam of course, but it does happen and it does exist.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
Unless you learn Islam is NOT EQUAL to terrorism, you won't understand. It's particularly amazing that few people realize that the Christian bible, the new and old testament, make up the Muslim holy book, the Koran. They do have a lot in common. And extremist fundamentalists make up a very tiny portion of the percentage of adherents to islam.
It's a bit difficult for the Old and New Testament to make up the Koran when Muslims believe that Ishmael was the one that was to be sacrificed (not Isaac), and that Ishmael was the one that inherited Abraham's 'favor' with god (or maybe that was Esau... I forget) . Yes, they are made up of many of the same events, but the Koran looks at things differently, so it's not the same.
~C
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sorry about that; I was actually referencing the person who said that we advocate open-mindedness, but then view Christian practices in a judgmental fashion.
I'm sorry. I thought you were talking to me in the first place. I totally apologize. The thread's were getting really hard to interpret.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Exactly, responsibility and maturity. But I don't think not having sex all of a sudden makes you responsible and mature. It's the skill of taking things in moderation that I think is the most admirable of people (because they don't fear nor do they succumb).
So I think it's rather retarded in trying to get teenagers to become abstinent (because y'know, teenagers aren't horny...), but I think it would be much more realistic to teach them to know what they're getting into when they have sex, and the level of commitment they should have for someone were they to do it.
I actually disagree, your sexuality as a woman has a lot to do with your relationship with your father. Freud and many other renowned psychologists have studied and found that you need a strong relationship with your father as a child in order to have more self-respect and make less risk-taking behaviors habitual. If you do not know you are valued and loved and protected you give away your goodies like candy. At least, these girls will be more aware of the fact that they are loved and valued and not give it up easily. As far as these girls being too young, I think that you must be unaware of the fact that 10 years olds are sexually active and fool around. And these girls will not feel any more guilty than they would normally being raised in a obviously Christian home. Christians believe in abstaining from sex before marriage, and not all Purity vows include kissing. As far as your thoughts go, the point is not to let your sexual fantasies over-run your mind and become all you think of. Obviously fantasizing is healthy, but people have to be taught to control their thoughts. It is not healthy to think of sex all day and nothing else, and these families want their daughters to be reminded of this and keep their minds on God and other important stuff, like whatever extracurriculars they are in.
Here is an article from Tulane University mentioning the psychological studies I mentioned above:
http://www2.tulane.edu/article_news_details.cfm?ArticleID=7435
An article mentioning 13 year olds having sex (13% admitting it, so God knows how much do it and deny it): http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200710/NAT200...
and check out the blog of this middle school teacher:
http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com/2005/04/07/a-teacher-tells-the...
Something has to be done and these people are hoping a vow of purity will help, and there's nothing wrong with encouraging self control and good behavior, I personally don't want lots of unwed mothers and stds being the problem of our middle school youth.
I would agree that the relationship a girl has with her father can affect the relationships she has with other guys. But I think that both parents are involved in influencing a child's decisions about risky behavior. People raised without mothers or fathers and even people with bad parents can overcome that and still make good decisions. I don't think its necessary for your father to vow to protect your sexual purity before you know he loves you or before you can make good decisions.
I don't doubt that girls under age 13 are having sex, I actually wrote about it in my last blog post. But, I seriously doubt that the 10 year-olds having sex are coming from the kinds of households that participate in Purity Balls (unless its incest).
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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"Here is an article from Tulane University mentioning the psychological studies I mentioned above."
Did you even read this article? This is about how the dumbed down, bastardized version of Freud's theories fucked up an entire generation of women 40 to 50 years ago. Much of Freud's work has been dismissed from psychological theory in the last couple decades anyway. His approach and theories were important, but they are extremely dated and un-subtle these days.
Purity Balls encourage the exact kind of Oedipus Complex that will lead to screwed up sexual identities for these girls. They are taught to subsume their natural sexual urges towards peers and focus on their love of God and their fathers. One of the videos even mentioned the father and daughter going out on dates. While spending time with parents is important, there comes a time when the peer group needs to be embraced and dealt with. When sexual thoughts are rejected for non-sexual love of the father there is a good likelihood that the sexuality will bleed over.
This whole practice is far more about a father's protective jealousy and need to control his daughter than a healthy decision to avoid sexual contact before marriage.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
I've never been to a purity ball, but I have pledged my purity. It's not something I saw a problem with; I know most people think it's crazy to do but there are things a whole lot crazier than planning to remain a virgin until you get married. Also, a lot of my friends pledged their purity at one of these things: http://www.silverringthing.com/, not a purity ball.
There's nothing wrong with waiting until marriage to have sex. I personally think that decision should be an educated and a personal one, not one heavily influenced and pressured by your parents.
Its the rituals involved with the Purity Ball and the type of culture they represent is what angers and disturbs me.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Wow we should all be so offended by parents who go to far in trying to get their children to be responsible for their actions at a young age.
At least they are trying.
Here we go again engkatiemarie, with our discussion about what it means to be responsible. These parents are pushing for virginity, not responsibility.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Personal responsibility is maintaining virginity at a young age. I have not a care in the world whether you maintain it until marriage... only until you are fiscally and emotionally capable of the consequences and sexual health maintenance requirements.
Have a nice day. : )
it takes a very responsible person to maintain virginity over the base desire to have sex with someone that, in youthful ignorance, you think loves you.
while BEING a virgin may not prove that someone is responsible, having sex in middle school really shows that one isn't.
Purity Balls aren't concerned with not having sex in middle school, they are concerned with girls not participating in any sexual thoughts, feelings, or behaviors through the length of their adolescence and beyond, up until their marriage.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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once again, having sexual thoughts is normal. What you DO with those sexual thoughts is the difference between maturity and giving in to base lusts like a child.
It isn't about repressing or ignoring thoughts or feelings. It is about taking responsibiliy or yourself to be pure until marriage.
Remember, I'm talking about the actual pledges these fathers and daughters take at Purity Balls. They pledge to protect the purity of their daughters minds and bodies, which include thoughts and feelings.
You, on the other hand, seem to be talking about abstinence in general.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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*** I looked it up. They say nothing about thoughts and feelings.
"I, (daughter’s name)'s father, choose before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity. I will be pure in my own life as a man, husband and father. I will be a man of integrity and accountability as I lead, guide and pray over my daughter and as the high priest in my home. This covering will be used by God to influence generations to come."
The parent is pledging to be a good role model, and encourage his child to do the same. He is pledging to following his religious beliefs, ect. I see nothing about purity of sexual thoughts. Purity, in this context, means not being a sexual person around his daughter. Certainly he is not pledging to be a born-again virgin and never again have intercourse with his wife.
As for public pledging, this is a social issue, that directly related and affects PUBLIC WELFARE, therefore I see nothing wrong with a PUBLIC PLEDGE to be PUBLICLY responsible for one's actions even if they are concerning a PRIVATE ACT.
Purity balls are religious events, concerning religious beliefs, but also encourage people to take responsibility for their actions and fathers to pledge showing their children how to be adults through being positive role models themselves. Your blog made me look this up, and now I support them, even if I'm not religious. Twisting events which encourage social responsibility into something that is ugly disgusts me... ***
http://www.generationsoflight.org/generationsoflight/html/index.html
***Comment has been edited for a TOS violation. Fanaile Essence, November 6, 2007.
Just as an FYI, the page you cited for the pledge is at the bottom of my post labeled "An Official Purity Ball Homepage" The father pledges to "cover [his] daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity". Purity in this context means his daughter's. If you watch the Aljazeera interview with the family, it's quite clear that participants of the Balls interpret this to mean sexual purity of mind and body. The interviews from the Glamour Article can attest to that as well.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Parents are responsible for their children's actions in the eyes of the law. They are also morally responsible for teaching their children right from wrong, and their social duties as adults. Purity in this context can be what you make of it, but clearly it is intended to extend throughout the daughter's life, not just to her marriage.
One family's interpretation does not represent that of everyone who attends the ball.
I do not encourage the repression of sexuality for women or men at any age. But I do not agree with forcing your personal beliefs of irresponsibility on others either. It's a two-way street, and unfortunately others have to pay in the form of public welfare for the other direction.
I encourage any person reading my post to explore the links listed at the bottom, including the Official Purity Ball Home Page. and the Aljazeera video on Purity Balls to judge for themselves the purpose of these events.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Which I did.
And now I have called you out on your unscrupulous writing, and the false statements you made about the events.
The words, "virgin" or "sex" are not mentioned at these events at all. The fathers don't directly pledge to protect these girls' chastity, and they certainly don't tell them to avoid sexual thoughts or feelings. That was one families' individual belief, as you heard in one interview. They want to be good role models for their children, spend time with them, and make sure that they are being socially responsible, as well as following the religious doctrines that go with their faith. These events are not what you described, and as far as I am concerned your blog was completely taken out of context and preyed on social responsibility as if it was some sort of terrible thing we should all avoid.
***Some content has been edited. Fanaile Essence, November 6, 2007.
I remember being raised in a Christian home and my mother never discussing with me the realities of sexual behavior. I mean at 6 we went through the sexual intercourse part because my baby brother was being born and my mother did not believe in telling me a stork brought him. So I knew the technicalities of sex at a young age but, when I started having other sexual stirrings I always felt very guilty and ashamed. It wasn't until I was in college did I realize that I wasn't going to burst into flames for having a very healthy sexual appetite. All those years I had been wracked with guilt and for what? Nothing. I could have been enjoying the person I am all those years. I have now become comfortable with my sexuality and I don't believe that having sex before marriage has made me any less of a Christian.
Now on the other hand, my parents were divorced and my father was not around in my life very much. So I guess one could say that could be a reason for my adolescent behavior.
On a side note-- I just recently had to explain to my mother what nipple clamps are. Talk about a bizarre conversation to be having with a parent. Especially a parent that as said above never discussed the realities of sex.
Ok. I think went way left field. But basically, I do think that a child's relationship with her father does have an effect on her relationships with males in her future. However, I am not extremely fond of making children feel guilty for things that naturally occur.
Doing what you love, is merely loving what you do.
"Talk about a bizarre conversation to be having with a parent."
I've had a similar conversation with my mother.
I'm gonna write a nonsensical book and leave it in a cave. 500 years later people will worship me
Kyle-Anne Shiver says it all.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/republican_women_too_smart_to.htm...
What exactly does this article have to do with Purity Balls?
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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WTF, mate?
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
There is a relationship. Read the article. Read this blog. Then think about it. It's really very simple. If you still don't understand, PM me and I'll further explain. Just like your grade school teacher.
Sometimes, I wonder about the level of intelligence here. Just because something is not OBVIOUS doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile.
**Some content has been edited. Fanaile Essence, November 6, 2007.
Thanks for that oh so helpful and mocking response. I understand the social responsibility angle, but the connection to purity balls is only thematic, and not even the primary theme of the article. Keeping our eyes on the sexual health angle, liberal, Democratic, real life sexual EDUCATION, rather than straight abstinence brain washing and purity pledges supported by Republicans, has proven to be just as, if not more effective on every level while providing realistic and necessary information about sexual health.
An intelligent, well-informed decision to uphold social responsibility is far more valuable and important than obedience to "purity." As usual Repubs want us to obey and Dems want us to choose.
I would have to say that "Clockwork Orange" (the American version) says it all; as long as we are making thematically relevant, but hardly specific references that state our entire philosophical stance.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
I don't support abstinence-only sex education, for many of the reasons you and other users have described.
I also do not support handing out condoms and birth control for free, for the reasons I have described many times here and before.
But a Purity Ball seems the epitome of abstinence over education to me. Children are pledging abstinence to their parents, sometimes before they can even really understand what that means, usually with little or no actual sex ed information. On top of that the parents, the father in particular, take a pledge and are given a role that would justify their control of their daughter's social life in such a way as to protect her virginity until marriage. This a clear objectification and commodification of the child and her purity to me.
Rather than good information and positive influence towards good choices these parents provide a wall, or at best a selectively permeable membrane. Parents need to be involved, true, but over involved parents are just as bad as those who ignore their kids.
I mean, if these were effective, I might be able to get behind a "The ends justify the means" justification, but we both know that they aren't, so what is the appeal? Are you just happy that people are trying, even if that trying is ineffective and, at least from my point of view, possibly harmful?
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
First off, not a single one of these purity ball website mentions a pledge of virginity of the daughters. Just wanted to point that out.
Secondly, I am just excited to see people who have a sense of social responsibility. And very disappointed that so many people would jump on the bandwagon to put them down for practicing it.
As a person who is not a practicing Christian, I interpret the father's pledge as one to be a positive role model and positive influence, and protect his children from society as well as teach them right from wrong. That includes keeping them from becoming dependent on social welfare.
These types of things may not be "effective" now, with the free condom sexuality-is-about-doing-whatever-you-want-screw-the-consequences society of today, but that doesn't give you a right to fault parents who choose to at least attempt to lead their children in the right direction. Some of these kids grow up to think for themselves despite the "education" they receive, make the right decisions, and don't ever need one "side" or the other.
On a side note... If the liberal left can hand out free condoms and birth control in middle/high schools against parent's personal and religious beliefs, then the conservative right should be allowed to encourage abstinence, shouldn't they? There must be some reasonable compromise here, people. One where children are educated but not encouraged. One where people are forced to take responsibility for their actions and no longer supported by society.
Your interpretation of the pledge outside of a Christian context is entirely flawed because the people writing and taking the pledge are Christian. Very Christian. In that context "purity" would clearly denote virginity until marriage because that's what purity means in a Christian context.
On top of that the fathers are taking "authority and protection in the area of her purity." That's a father taking authority over his daughter's private life. Parents need to exercise authority and be parents, but this kind of pledge is a bit authoritarian to me. Really, "High priest in my home"? Can we be any more patriarchal? This is a family we are talking about, not church hierarchy.
The pledge also doesn't mention anything like taking responsibility for actions. It is a pledge to not take certain actions on the part of the daughter and to make sure she doesn't on the part of the father. That's not accepting responsibility. That's forbidding a certain action regardless of ability to handle it responsibly. We live in a world where an educated person can avoid having a child or getting an STD and still have a sex life that involves sex.
Besides, these are rich, white Christians taking these pledges for the most part. Not exactly the biggest demographic taking advantage of the welfare system.
I never said they couldn't do these Purity Balls. I just think that they are fucked up, wrong headed, ineffective and sexist. They don't really contribute to any of the goals you seem so keen on anyway. Free condoms don't encourage sex. They encourage those having sex to do it RESPONSIBLY. Abstinence can be encouraged, but this is pretty close to "enforced." None of these pledges are about social responsibility. They are about personal purity and religious conviction that a daughter should be pure when the father hands her off to her husband. They are talking about the emotional damage of premarital sexual relations, not the burden placed on society by welfare families.
Teens and people in general are going to have sex, married or no. In fact, as far as I can tell, there has been no period in history where they didn't. Victorian era... teen sex. Biblical times... teen sex. Sumerians... teen sex. Egyptians... teen sex. Mongols... teen sex. Ming dynasty... teen sex. Hell, even monks, priests and nuns have managed to get it on pretty regularly. I am all for your middle of the road approach, which pretty well seems to be a more liberal approach anyway, just minus government welfare. Abstinence pledges (that's what these are) that submit a daughter's purity to the authority of the father are not any kind of way to deal with sex education or social welfare. It is authoritarian and sexist.
It isn't "leading" anybody anywhere. Just asking them to accept authority and pledge to authority. Once again, not supporting responsible decision making, but obedience. Honestly your main goal seems to be to eliminate social welfare programs, or the need for them, but these Balls are a pretty poor way of doing that. I don't want to get into a whole social welfare debate, but Purity Balls certainly aren't going to do a whole lot of good in that area.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
You know what.
I have already stated this five billion times. What the hell. 10 more points.
Let people have their religion. Let them teach their children values within their religion. Let their pledges reflect that religion. Let each individual family attending the Purity Ball interpret that pledge as they choose. It's their prerogative. Who the hell are you to judge them, when you are the one advocating rampant sexual activity on the part of minors?
Do I care if you have sex before marriage? No. Do I care if you have sex? Not unless you are in a position to become a burden on society.
http://www.progressiveu.org/031426-fiscally-responsible-sex
And finally. What the hell happened to respecting the authority of your parents? Parents raise you. They financially support you. They deserve some kind of respect. What is wrong with you, that you would put down a parent for trying to raise their child, and then act like there is something wrong with them for being an authority figure? Get over yourself. When you into the real world, there are authority figures everywhere, and you'll have to come to terms with that too.
P.S. No birth control method or STD prevention is 100% effective except for abstinence. I'm not advocating it; I'm pointing out a fact. ***
***Some content was edited for a TOS violation. Fanaile Essence, November 6, 2007.
Let people have their religion. Let them teach their children values within their religion. Let their pledges reflect that religion.
Do you extend this to people that have the belief it is perfectly acceptable to beat a woman as long as she's not pregnant?
People are free to disagree with people's beliefs. And it has been my impression throughout this thread that esuffern (and others) are simply objecting to the extreme terms to which the families mentioned in the articles took the purity balls, not to the whole idea of parents teaching a child to think about their actions.
~C
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I don't disagree with Esuffern or the other users who object to purity balls. I actually can see why they would, and I can agree with many of their viewpoints.
What I object to, is the way they object. By using "facts" that aren't true, and stating the interpretation of one family as if it were the interpretation of all the families attending. Twisting the facts and manipulating people into believing something that isn't true. There are some things wrong with purity balls, but reading a Glamour article (not the greatest Journalism to start with, but better than Esuffern's) and circumspectly manipulating what you think it's about and presenting it as fact doesn't make your point correctly.
I used to be angry and anti-religion and think, "omg you can't control everybody and it's completely ridiculous to tell teenagers not to do anything". And then I grew up and realized that authority figures are necessary, and should be respected, even if you don't always obey them completely.
You should take the time to dissect things like purity balls, but in a respectful way. ***
***Some content has been edited. Fanaile Essence. November 6, 2007.
Lets say your right, here are a few basic principles that we would get.
1.Parents don't have the right to raise their own kids.
2. trying to do good is pointless so don't even try. If we can't keep completely pure we might as well throw purity out the window. Lets not save sex for marriage lets have it as much as possible so that it becomes a worthless social event.
I just don't believe guilt is the most effective form of parenting is all. By all means parents should be responsible for raising their own children. I do believe that is the definition of a parent.
Doing good is not pointless. Being realistic with expectations and natural human feelings I think can better teach children the choices they have regaurding sex.
"Abstinance is an option that you have. This is a route I (being the parent and role model) took because our religious views support it. (You can fill in here some other benefits of waiting until marraige). Another option is that you may have feelings for someone and want to have sexual intercourse with them. (Here giving maybe possible down sides to having sex earlier also emphasizing safe sex no matter what). Sexual thoughts are okay, it is part of being human. However, sometimes we must control these thoughts (and insert reasons here of why they should be controled). "
Perhaps, giving our children a more rounded view of the options they have and then trusting in them to make the right decison might not be so guilt riden and ultimately affect their life and not the parent's. The can make healthy choices and not just ones that parents would like to enforce though they themselves probably did not practice.
Doing what you love, is merely loving what you do.
Thank you for your response, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Parenting should be based on healthy, responsible attitudes towards natural human urges, not strict pledges of purity of mind and body that are impossible to keep. Minus the extremely tiny percentage of people that are entirely asexual every human has sexual thoughts. That completely voids the purity of mind and, as has been demonstrated anecdotally, can lead to feelings of guilt and confusion over inevitable and natural thoughts and feelings.
The goal of purity until marriage is not based on any sound principal of human psychology. It is a straight jacket, artificial goal meant to substitute for the goal of creating healthy and mature adult human beings. An unconsummated sexual attraction can do as much emotional harm as a consummated one anyway. Let's not forget that purity includes going without masturbation as well, an activity proven to be healthy and beneficial for both sexes.
Studies done on this sort of behavior (purity pledges) consistently show that it is entirely ineffective anyway. Boys and girls who make pledges like this have sex before marriage just as often as those who don't pledge to remain pure until marriage.
Fuck, the entire idea that sex is somehow an impurity for girls in the first place is harmful and sexist and unhealthy anyway.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
Ugh. Yet another reason why I hate the charismatic churches and the pressure they put on everyone.
How come we only ask ourselves the really big questions when something bad happens?
This is definitely fucked up, but it's no more fucked up than the underlying principle of abstinence until marriage and lifelong monogamy thereafter that Christians believe in. That is the root of the problem. These purity balls, as unseemly as they are, are at least understandable a quixotic attempt to provide an "innocent" emotional substitute for the repressed sexuality. It's probably better than out-and-out sexual repression *without* a strong parental bond. A complete rejection of the stupid erotophobia of the Christian tradition would be the best of all cases, however.
Haha... you and Goldie Hawn would make awesome friends.
I agree with you on some of these points. No one should reject sexuality completely. I do not however, see anything wrong with monogamy, or the opposite should you change your mind about a chosen partner. Abstinence until marriage, I really have no opinion on, because it's a religion/social thing that I doesn't affect me/ I don't feel a need to comment on.
However, there is significant value in retaining social responsibility, and that includes responsibility for your sexual health and social welfare. These parents, although perhaps to the extreme, are trying to teach their children responsibility, something sorely lacking in society today.
Purity Balls do not focus on responisibility. They focus on virginity. Nowhere in the dad's pledge does it state, "I vow to teach my daughter to be a responsible young adult". The fathers vow to guard their daughters' sexual purity.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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I see nothing wrong with that.
Although I do agree with some of your points, I'd rather see parents go too far (verbally) in the form of purity balls, ect., then see them not do anything at all. Too many young (and old) people have no respect for their bodies and their personal responsibility to public welfare.
All your arguments are based on biased viewpoints.
First, the reason that they have these balls at young ages is because by the time a girl hits '12 or 13' they are often already inundated by society's expecatation that they are hoing to have sex before marriage.
Second, I doubt that anyone expects these girls not to even have any sexual thoughts or feelings, because everyone has these thoughts at some point. It's whether they accept and act upon them that counts.
Third, these dads aren't basing their love for their daughters on their virginity. They only want the best for their daughters, and that includes protecting them.
Fourth, those teens who never learn to control their desires are the ones who grow up to be 'fucked up' adults, as you put it. Sexual recklessness does not translate into a healthy state of mind; the reverse is true.
Lastly, the parents do not pick who these girls court.They merely don't allow them to court guys that they believe will not look out for their girls' best interests.
Sometimes people can be so judgemental and bigoted. Esuffern, you need to grow up.
Thank you, Politae.
Finally, someone on this website with some sense of social responsibility besides lancekates and I.
Protecting your child from all the social ineptitude around them isn't a crime people. Teaching them right from wrong is part of RESPONSIBLE PARENTING.
Teaching right from wrong, yes. Tell me again what is "wrong" with having sex before marriage?
I really am not trying to stir the pot. I play devil's advocate and ask questions hopefully just adding a different perspective.
Doing what you love, is merely loving what you do.
If you have ever read anything I've ever written, and you don't have reading comprehension problems, you'd know that I don't care about sex before marriage.
What I do care about is people who have sex before they are capable of being emotionally and fiscally responsible for their actions and the consequences of their actions. And then expecting others to do so for them (social welfare).
Clearly, from the words of the pledge (and I do not have reading comprehension problems, I scored very high on my SATs many years ago, thank you very much), these parents are advocating teaching their children social responsibility (purity) through religious values (purity) via being role models and spending time with their children.
Yes, but, there is a difference between teaching your children right from wrong, self control and to make the "right" decisions (which I guess is what they believe in ) and then PRESSURING them into believing that what they are doing is right.
At such a young age you have no idea what the hell is going on when it comes to sex. What if you're views change as you get older? Now these girls feel they HAVE to stick to their oath because at such a young age their parents asked them to do this probably without even knowing exactly what they are pledging.
It's not right to ask somebody at such a young age to make a commitment like this. As a parent, all you can do is teach your children good things and hope that what you have done has influenced them into make the right decisions.
___________________________________________________________________
"Is it true, said Candide, that people in Paris are always laughing?"
-Voltaire
The girls that attend Purity Balls don't go to public school, most of them are home-schooled. Their friends are all from church or other home-schooled families. If anything, they're inundated with the expectation that they'll stay virgins until marriage.
Its not enough for these girls to choose not to act on their sexual feelings, because according to scripture, they're sinning just by having them.
I said that these fathers were associating their love for their daughters with their daughters' virginity, not basing.
Keeping your sexuality on lock-down and being a whore are two ends of a spectrum. There's plenty in between. Not keeping total control of your sexual feelings doesn't mean you end up having indiscriminate sex with whoever turns you on. What I consider healthy is enjoying sexual thoughts and acting on your desires in a safe and healthy way, with people that you trust. That is not what Purity Balls attendees are advocating.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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***
No matter the issue, Christianity has always put enormous pressure on their members to fulfill unrealistic goals. The purity balls are no different. Before any idea of sex has even begun to form in the minds of these young girls, they are being forced to make a decision beyond their limited comprehension. Like cows to the slaughter, these girls are being set up to fail.
One short sleepe past wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
-John Donne
***Some content has been edited because - well - it wouldn't make sense since I had to come and moderate and the references aren't there anymore. Fanaile Essence, November 6, 2007.
I looked up at he posts of the people you talked about. They might have said things better, but I've had to put up with a lot worse than that on posts on the resurrection. Perhaps you should go to my posts and let the person, who has started calling me ignorant for being a Christian, that he has crossed a line.
Well, I've read a lot of your posts, and you haven't done much to defend yourself against that accusation. Maybe he has crossed the line, or maybe not, but I tend to agree with him not because you are Christian but because of what you use to back up your faith in Christianity. I mean no offense, but it is a common thread among most Christians.
Perhaps you are referring to Darwin's Beagle?
One short sleepe past wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
-John Donne
While I agree that they have Purity balls for girls WAY too young, and that it's messed up that there's no equivalent for guys, and also more than a little creepy that Bush is funding that (ewwwwww! lol) erm...I don't see anything wrong with them AS LONG as the girl isn't being super pressured into it, like as long as it's really her choice. And true, a lot of them probably pressure their daughters into it but there is such a thing as presenting a certain moral view to your kids without being pushy. My mom managed to do so, while respecting my own personal decisions as a teen and a young adult.
The girls are being pressured though. Children that young are not able to choose. They are doing this because their parents are telling them to. The girls are being brought up to think this way. Sure we all have to raise our children with certain beliefs, but this is a bit much.
Tabias-
This blog is very well written. This is quite a scary subject. Sure the bible talks alot about purity, but it never mentions purity balls.
Sexuality has always been a big issue in regard to any type of religion.
Reason for this is rather simple,
“controlling one’s sexuality, is controlling one’s identity”
Therefore so many people that worship deal with numerous frustrations and linger in doubt because they follow the concept between good and bad, right and wrong!
To understand this, one needs to know the difference between religion and God!
To explain it in a simple way,
Religion doesn’t bring personal sense of identity to an individual, because it simply takes one’s identity away to use it for it’s own purpose!
Religion tells their followers how to behave, what they have to believe, what is (not) allowed and what has to be!
This is exactly the reason why religions are emotionally and violently forced upon people from the outside out into their lives.
The reason why sexuality plays such an important role in religion is because it has been put in place with the sole and only reason to benefit males. Not difficult to understand, they are actually the ones that have written all these rules down.
Woman therefore are suffering in this struggle that is mostly translate into culture or religion to justify the burden they are submitted to bringing them nothing more than mental and physical trauma’s.
This process doesn’t start at purity balls, but the moment they have their first breath of air, having sometimes no choice than to follow the one of a worshipper!
Can one imagine what this means,…
It’s the lack of (parental) emotion and common sense that takes away the possibility for children to develop a backbone of responsibility, the sense of “I” is being excluded when being submitted to the horror of religion.
Purity balls are just one freak example of 2007 doctrine…
Enforcing virginity is nothing more than humiliating someone to be of “function” in a structure that pushes religion above love.
God is love, and I’m not even a worshipper!
Simply gorgeous!
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principals."
Completely aside from "purity balls" and the original blogger's interpretation of such...
I absolutely agree with you (for once). Abstinence only education and government funding of said programs is the dumbest, most ineffective, socially irresponsible practice ever encouraged.
Personally I support the completely sexual and social education of children and open lined of communication within families. To me, that means mutual respect between parents and children; without crossing the line where parents become friends. A compromise; total sexual education, but no free rides. A hand up, not a hand out... that's the ticket to improving society and decreasing the need for public welfare for everyone.
P.S. Love the cat picture.
and the mindset of the (very real) "purity balls" and that of the fictional literary character Peter Gardner could not be more similar (or horrifying). Yes, parents should set boundaries and discuss the consequences of sexual activity, but forcing them to make a "pledge" is going too far. It's ironic, for all of the Christian talk of "free will", it seems that complete control is the letter of the day.
Oh...my. Thanks for this disturbingly informative post! Seriously though, the world needs to know about stuff like this. I just wish there was some way to stop it.
Arrrgh, I want to SHAKE these fundamentalists, and scream, "LOOK! LOOK! Don't you SEE how fucking SICK you are?" Although I've been neglecting ProgressiveU, reading this actually reminds me of how I should follow up with my last post, as repression of natural, teenage sexual development is not entirely unfamiliar terrain to me, personally.
But, ugh, "PURITY BALLS"? How does any father anywhere possibly view a "Purity Ball" as HEALTHY?! I'd never even heard of this, and I am honestly completely disgusted. In fact, I'm pretty much speechless at the moment, so it's probably best I stop rambling now.
:x
i think you are just completely unaware of what any of these families are feeling. i think purity balls are great. maybe you dont have supportive parents. maybe you had sex early as a teen. idk, but something has turned you against sexual purity. please dont bash whats so close to lots of peoples hearts
Or maybe she just thinks sexual purity is a dumb concept like I do. I'm a virgin with supportive parents but I would never go to a purity ball, although I understand why some people like them.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
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Her point is not about the commitment to stay pure until marriage, it's about the fact that it's done so in a way that makes it seem like the father owns the daughter and her virginity. Also, the fact that there is no mother-son equivalent speaks volumes about the culture's view of women, since it takes two to tango.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
The purity ball is a good idea....but taken to the extreme. I don't find it weird at all that the father is protecting his daughter's body. This should be a father's job. He is required to provide for and protect the family, and this includes his daughter's health. However, if a girl doesn't date, kiss or make out before marriage, that marriage is doomed from the start. If the purity ball was centered solely on sex and not on repressing sexual feelings, it would be a great idea. Divorce rate among these groups would basically be null, and overall the girls would be healthy and safe when they reach marriage. Sex is seen as a toy for too many young people today, which is why we have a divorce rate near 50%. Tone the purity ball down and its one step towards a better America.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nharris1032
I don't find it weird at all that the father is protecting his daughter's body.
Watching out for your kids and teaching them responsibilities and values is important. But do you hear fathers saying "Now, son, I don't want any girls putting their hands on you" or agonizing over whether a girl is getting up in their son's personal space.
These balls and their ceremonies show a family system where fathers rule over their families, where wives and daughters are owned by the father, and where a daughter's "purity" is under the father's possession.
These balls and their philosophy create this weird overlap of familial and amorous type relationships. Everytime I think about these balls, I wonder what the rate of incest is with these families.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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I guarantee there is a 0% rate of incest in these families. They have an obvious moral system, otherwise they would not go through with these purity balls.
And you are right, I don't get talks from my parents about making sure a girl is not getting too close to me. I get talks to not get too close to them. It's a double standard, but I'm fine with it because I see the thought process behind it. Plus, I can't get pregnant so that is another reason why it's not a big deal that "any girls put their hands on" me. Sorry, but that's not sexism, that's just the truth.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nharris1032
I guarantee there is a 0% rate of incest in these families. They have an obvious moral system, otherwise they would not go through with these purity balls.
That's a pretty bold claim. How do you know this exactly?
If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed...nothing shall be impossible unto you. - Matthew 17:20