It's only five days until the scholarship deadline. Have you said what you wanted to say? Have you debated to your fullest? Or have you been cheating the system to get that $1000? Have you posted meaningless or plagiarized crap or somehow kept your own post in the "Most emailed" or "Highest rated" lists. If so, you are not alone. Many bloggers are guilty of manipulating the system. But to the your credit, it is not all your fault.
First, I would like to make sure we are all on the same page here with the point system: A post is worth 50 pts, a comment that you make is 10 pts, and a read on your post is worth 1 pt.
The quality of decent and fair posts on this site has been steadily declining as bloggers have realized the potential in points that await them. I have seen many an article from New York Times.com or The Onion.com copied and pasted onto a post with a tag at the end saying, "So what do you think of this?" These posts avoid deletion because the posters avoid plagiarism by citing where the article came from. Almost no effort has been put into the post, yet they have now received 50 pts towards a scholarship of $1000. The same could be said about the quantity of comments that one makes on this site.
While I agree that each read on a post should be worth 1 pt, I do not agree with the methods that some bloggers have used to obtain the most of them. There are two lists on every page, showing the highest rated and most emailed blogs. More often than not, there are only one or two different users in the top rated list, which leads me to suspect that those bloggers have created more users to boost their own popularity. This belief may be unfounded, but I would not put it past several people on this site. Also, if you are not already aware, only one email is required to make a post appear on the most emailed list. In fact, you can email the post to yourself and still keep your post on the most emailed list (and on every page) for many days longer than it would have normally.
The solution, although simple, cannot be dealt with by you or me, but by the managers of this site. First, I believe that each post should be worth, at most, 20 points. Comments left by other users on your post should be worth 10 points, but the comments that you leave on other posts should only be worth 5 points. In other words, if someone leaves a comment on your blog, you will receive 10 points, but they will receive 5; if you comment on someone else's blog, you will receive 5 points, but they will receive 10 points. If you comment on your own blog in response to someone else, it should count only as 5 points. Finally, the star rating system should be factored into the point system as well, with 1-2 points per star. Not only will this encourage rating of posts, but it will increase the amount of points that each blogger deserves to receive.
As for the "Highest Rated" and "Most Emailed" lists on every page, a minimum number of votes and emails should be made in order for the blog to be added to the list.
I mean for this to help the future competitions and bloggers, not as a way for you readers to find more ways to be point mongerers. I hope that those of you who have remained respectful of the system will continue to do so for the next 5 days. As for the rest of you, enjoy your popularity while you can, and I hope that the money goes to someone more deserving than you.
But to the Progressive U Team, I hope this helps you realize that it is time to hand out awards for the quality of posts, not the quantity.
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Sounds fair. *skips away with 10 pts* HEHE!
I just joined today. There's no way I'm winning.
Good post, though. It's so true.
When I first signed into this site I didn't understand the whole point system, and though I could use a scholarship, I thought some of the blogs were interesting, and it wouldn't hurt to sign up, and post or reply as it suited me.
But the more I read the more I realized that sometimes people were posting just to get points. And some of posts were replied to by quite a few people but no one ever bothered to vote.
I'll probably never win either, but it's interesting to read some of the posts and replies.
"A prime part of the history of our Constitution...is the story of the extension of constitutional rights and protections to people once ignored or excluded." ~US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg
yay! I totally agree with you.
Especially on the whole:
So, what do you think?
Finally! It gets a bit discouraging when I see people who most senseless crap every ten minutes and get points for it, then they get a bit comment happy and pretty much spam the place.
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"They can smash your cookie, but you'll always get your fortune."
My blog
If this time around is anything like last time the fluff has not even left the factory yet...one good thing is that Progressive U does watch and read our posts. Plus they take posts like this seriously.
Progressive U
I really like the new ratings thing and the side bar additions
Keep commenting and thinking for yourselves.
~T
all truths are easy to understand once discovered; the point is to discover them ~galileo
I've noticed the problem since I joined and it irritates me a little. I think someone cheating to get more points is ridiculous, I mean points really aren't that hard to get if you really put effort into it. I hope the PU team solves the problem, and the deserving people get the rewards, not the cheaters. [I like the idea of giving points for the star rating section. I always rate the posts I read and I wish more people rated mine after reading/commenting.]
-S
[visit my blog]
The contest period will begin at 12:01 a.m. (PST) on February 15, 2007 and end at 12:00 noon (PDT) on June 30, 2007.
So "they" have about two months. And personally I will continue to blog after this contest is over. Also I have been guilty of doing the article thing, only to actually share it with some of the members here. But I think no one here posts from the onion.com. And if you are talking about my humor articles I've either re-written them, or made them up myself. And yes there are many "omg my dog choked on a rubber band" posts. As far as the comments goes, I usually post whatever I want on my blog, but if it's someone elses blog, I try to stay on topic. Thats just my opinion.
-------------------------------------------------------
See my blog and I'll love you forever! Or at least temporarily: www.progressiveu.org/blog/npsm18 or http://npsm18.wordpress.com/ for less progressive issues.
I never actually accused anyone with names or anything. Have a bit of a guilty conscious?
"What the hell are you waiting for?" Linkin Park-Jay Z
You've brought up a point a lot of us stress: the fairness of this scholarship and those who reach for it. I think the "winner"'s entries are looked at to make sure they are acceptable, but I'm not sure.
I also like your rating system, but there's not much we can do about it right now. I doubt it shall change.
Yes they are, by the way.
Francesca Chambers
Thank you for finally pointing this out - I wondered if anyone was going to notice. I have to admit i joined this so I could try to earn the scholarship, but once the blogging process really began I realized how interesting it is, and how educational it is. Posting articles and asking what everyone thinks about it defeats the purpose of blogging, and cheats the point system for the scholarship.
So, I'm glad someone noticed it. I don't if your blog with have an impact on the outcome, but at least it's out there now.
I knwo what u mean, People always try to find away to go aorund and get in the lead.!
You only posted this so you could get more points.
"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine."
~~Henry David Thoreau
Alas, you have caught me... I too am guilty of the sin of the lists. But I have repented of my ways and live a life without sin...ish.
"What the hell are you waiting for?" Linkin Park-Jay Z
Hello Donne. You are right. This system is very broken.
The poorly written post thing is all too evident in the wee hours of the morning. Often I am online then and I see users that post 5 or 6 posts one after the other and they are clearly doing the minimum 100 words with minimum content in what they are saying. I wrote a blog on Point Mongering. I like that you used the same term as I did. Point Mongering is wrong, this site is more about progress than it is about a scholarship and manipulating the system to get that scholarship.
Manipulating the system is not progress and I hope some people reform their ways.
What I think is funny is that after I emailed this blog to my brother (yes, it was my brother, not me), I was almost immediately bumped off the "Most emailed" list by 5 other posts. It seems that people are taking my observations to heart.
"What the hell are you waiting for?" Linkin Park-Jay Z
I agree with your proposal completely, but in my mind it's still almost impossible to get in the "top 25" if you have a life other than watching the news and getting on this website.
I mean, I peruse the blogs every couple days, and I try to comment in order to contribute to the discussion, all the while in the back of my mind knowing that I'm working towards a scholarship that, in all likelihood, I'll never receive simply because I don't have the time to compete with the thousands of other users that don't have as many responsibilities in the outside world as I do.
Is that just the nature of this type of competition, or can this situation be remedied also?
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Stephen Colbert: Enemy of the Democrat?
It's only five days until the scholarship deadline.
Try like over two months.
I have seen many an article from New York Times.com or The Onion.com copied and pasted onto a post with a tag at the end saying, "So what do you think of this?"
And I fight against posts like this by rating them '1' and not commenting. They usually fall below the radar after a few hours.
First, I believe that each post should be worth, at most, 20 points.
I agree. Though make it a nice 25 points. Half of what it is now, yet still more than half the value of a comment.
Comments left by other users on your post should be worth 10 points, but the comments that you leave on other posts should only be worth 5 points.
I disagree. There are some really good discussions that come out of the comments on a given blog that often have little to do with the blog itself. I don't think it's fair to give people who wrote a blog that inspired an argument between two people points for what those people write. Furthermore, there are a number of blogs that are well thought out, but just don't inspire comments.
Finally, the star rating system should be factored into the point system as well, with 1-2 points per star. Not only will this encourage rating of posts, but it will increase the amount of points that each blogger deserves to receive.
I definitely agree. But the star system was just implemented in January, so we're making baby steps.
Believe me, we made a ton of suggestions at the end of the last contest, and a few of those have gone into effect (such as the rating system). We just haven't fully made the transition yet. ProU is even going to give point updates in the next contest.
~C
Visit my blog.
Sorry, when I read April 15, 2007, i thought it meant that was the last day of the competition. It turns out you have to be registered by then to compete.
"What the hell are you waiting for?" Linkin Park-Jay Z
You know it all comes down to "competition" just like a reality show when it is down to the last few contestants fighting for the prize. And they'll do anything to get it.
J.S.
I just wanted to say thanks for explaining how this site works :) i just joined today, asking myself "how do they pick the winner"? i think this system is really unfair. They should have a system where they can see who copied and pasted from an internet source.
Good Luck with future Blogs! :)
how can you give someone who write about something they care about only 20 points whne they give away 200 points for posting your link on myspace and all the other websites?
Thank you for all the feedback! We love well-though-out commentary on how we can improve the site.
We are a volunteer-run organization so we can't always immediately implement all suggestions, but as those who have been around awhile will attest, we are making progress. We will take all of these suggestions into account for future contests, but in the meantime here are a few points of clarification:
1) As mvenus929 points out, the deadline for registration for this semester's contest is April 15, but the contest continues through June 30. It's a long haul, and posting random nonsense never pays off.
2) We do review posts by potential scholarship winners. Every semester many posts need to be removed or disqualified, but in general people who get high point totals are those who work hard throughout the semester to write thoughtful and interesting posts. That said, we are constantly striving to improve the point system and rules, so your suggestions are very welcome.
3) We cannot read every post that is made on Progressive U. We rely on members to vote on what's good and what's not good, and to flag posts that violate copyright law or that are otherwise objectionable. The more you vote, and the more you point out posts that should be removed, the better. We do plan to encourage this in future by giving points for voting.
All in all, great suggestions. Please keep them coming!
I agree with working to change some of the problems with people posting useless things but there is more to keep in mind with the point system you proposed. First of all, if they disqualify useless posts in the end anyway, those posts won't matter. The other thing is that the site is here to be progressive and if commenting on someone's post gives them more points than it gives you, a lot of people will be discouraged from making comments, which means that a lot of good debates will no longer occur. I think the current point system (with the exception of some of the ideas like the rating system) is good as it is but perhaps we could have minimum word limit on comments similar to the word limit on posts only smaller. That way commenters will be forced to think out their comments and make them worthwile rather than saying "I agree" I was attracted to this site because of the scholarship but I quickly learned that time and effort needed to be put into each post if it was going to be read and I believe that constrictions on comment length will achieve the same effect.
And now these three remain: Faith, Hope and Love. But the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13:13
Changing the point values of comments isnt going to affect the nature of debates that go on in the site, because if you put enough energy into it to debate things, your main focus probably isn't on the points you're earning, but rather the content of what you're saying. You can tell pretty easily who comments solely for points and who comments for the sake of discussion.
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Bloggers! YOU are the future of this country! How are your actions measuring up?
This scholarship becomes more about conten (=:
Em <3
It's only five days until the scholarship deadline.
Actually, that's the deadline to sign up. The scholarship doesn't end till June.
Also it's a matter of opinion but it seems that, generally speaking, the highest rated posts tend to be by good writers - I don't see much spam up there.
As for highest email - seriously, just emailing it to myself? Awesome idea :D
I seriously doubt the managers of the contest will change the point system this late in the contest though.
I've often thought about these ways to cheat the system but could never really decide what I thought should be changed. I think your ideas were pretty okay.
-Lauren-
I totally agree with you about some users cheating the system. I've been here for pretty close to a year and have seen way too many posts that have pretty much copied and pasted everything and said one or two sentences of their own. I do have a suggestion though. Before a post can be put on the highest rated, most read, most emailed, etc. it should be read by someone from the PU team to make sure that it is not copied and pasted. That way the people who spend their time writing their own posts rather than plagarizing will get their posts read more and actually have their own voices heard instead of a journalist's voice. The journalists are not the ones competing in the scholarship. Us students are and anyone that works hard to write a blog on their own should get priority over the cut and paste blogs when it comes to being posted on the side bars.
The problem with that is that there are hundreds of blogs posted every day. The mods don't have time to go through all of the ones that get high ratings in order to determine which deserve to get put on the list. It would hence make the list a lot less dynamic. If you don't like posts being put up there because they have been copied and pasted, then don't rate those posts highly. If more people rated posts, we wouldn't have that problem.
~C
Visit my blog.
I wonder though, was this post actually voted on by 23 DIFFERENT people?
Interesting.
Actually, I was pretty surprised to see so many people rating my post. I've never had a post so highly regarded. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen so many votes on a single post. Maybe I've started something here...
"What the hell are you waiting for?" Linkin Park-Jay Z
I joined at first thinking I had a chance, and then after like, a day realized there wasn't much of a chance.
I have, however, become pretty engrossed in the content of the debates happening.
And I'm not sure about the word minimums proposed in commentary. Sometimes something short really says it all. But then again, I guess the same could be said for postings, and there is a minimum there...
I hardly have time as a moderator to read any posts. There are too many on here to read them all in ratio to how many moderators there are. I really try to focus on responding to things in the forums. Not to mention I am taking a super charged coarse load this semester at college and had to back off PU for a couple weeks in general.
And the reason there are not many moderators is because people are more intersted in getting the scholarship, than working for PU for free. Which is very unfortuante, but extremely understandable.
And I can attest, as aforementioned, the people who are cheating the system have never won the contest.
Francesca Chambers
Next spring I'll be a moderator for ya :-). Won't be eligible to receive scholarships after that.
~C
Visit my blog.
I would love to be a moderator as well. I signed up for the scholarship, but was actually more interested in just seeing what others had to say. I haven't even made any blogs, I usually just comment and try to get discussions going. Is there anywhere to find more information for this?
Well I think that you have to have been on the site for a certain amount of time, be asked to be a moderator, have proven you would be a good spokesperson for PU- and by this I mean generally people who are in the top ten in the contest. But I can find out.
Francesca Chambers
"These posts avoid deletion because the posters avoid plagiarism by citing where the article came from."
But if they're copying and pasting the articles, they're still violating copyright laws. Does that not warrant deletion. Posting an excerpt and commenting about it is one thing, but posting the whole article is a violation.
I've got little chance of winning myself anyway since I just joined today. Maybe next time...
I think it's still good because they cited where it came from.
"What the hell are you waiting for?" Linkin Park-Jay Z
I believe it is only a violation if you claim it as your own or try to gain money off of it. But just copying and pasting with valid citation isn't a violation.
Comments left by other users on your post should be worth 10 points, but the comments that you leave on other posts should only be worth 5 points. In other words, if someone leaves a comment on your blog, you will receive 10 points, but they will receive 5; if you comment on someone else's blog, you will receive 5 points, but they will receive 10 points.
I didn't get the point of this at first, but now I agree. Although it is sad the way it implies the worst in human nature.
I was just now thinking the same thing because I always see the same people on the list or atleast some familiar names..
So after thinking about it, I decided to go back to the FAQ and scrutinize over the Official Rules and noticed that there are many loop holes and knick knacks that people can do in getting more points and achieving a closer chance in winning that scholarhship money.
In other words, I am very glad you posted this blog because if you didn't, I would have but I'm not quite sure that it would have came out as elegant as yours did.
Another thing I've recently discovered is that people will spam-PM many people inviting them to read their blog.
The first few times I was suckered into it, I kind of thought the people were interested in my opinions and just wanted me to read their stuff; I read their blogs, commented kindly but to be fair it wasn't something I really would have read if I hadn't been asked to read, and then kept getting invited once they wrote new blogs.
I finally asked one person whether they were genuinely interested in my thoughts, and (s?)he said "no, just tying [sic] to win the scholrship [sic]" and then included ANOTHER link to his/her blog.
Yeah, I just got one of those the other day. The person had some good thoughts, but I probably wouldn't have read the blog if they hadn't asked me to.
~C
Visit my blog.
To the person who was honest about just trying to win (which I appreciated), I asked him/her to avoid including me in her efforts next time.
I don't want to be rude or anything, and I love helping people and all, but I have no idea who this person is. I am not an especially competitive person (I even wrote a blog about this yesterday) but I don't want to help someone else win if I spend time working hard to write something I think is well written-- that I could show to a professor. It would be one thing if s/he had interesting things to say, but it doesn't look like s/he spent very much time writing or proofreading or thinking out his/her thoughts, and I can't (for lack of a better word) respect a fellow blogger's efforts whose efforts are writing quickie, 105-word posts about topics everyone else talks about and then PMing everyone to read them.
Phew. Sorry, sometimes I get Larry David-style obsessed with my pet peeves.
You have the right to be annoyed about it. I received one not too long ago and I felt that the blog entry they sent me was not worth my time.
Another thing that annoys me is how some people comment spam people's blogs urging them to read their's, without giving any input in about the blog the person just written. I mean if someone is going to comment on my blogs, then I want some feedback about it. I don't want my blog to be used as a space for their blog advertisement.
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"They can smash your cookie, but you'll always get your fortune."
My blog
Like the person below? This was the most substantive comment I think they've written on anybody's blog.
I am glad you had the heart to say something like this. People who really do cheat the system should not get any credit. It's really awesome how you took the time to solve the problem and not only address it. Kudos!
Haha, I tried to figure out how to comment for the LONGEST time until I scrolled all the way down to the page.... Chea. I even checked out the FAQ page and everything! haha So, here's your comment--the one that took me 5 minutes or more to figure out how to do. =D Hope you enjoy!
Here's a link to my first blog. Please check it out and comment! =D
http://www.progressiveu.org/050908-essay-inspiration-for-living
TCHO
Did you get to this one last?
but look at us, we're competing against eachother like a bunch of money hungry savages!
"it's silly, no? when a rocketship explodes and man still wants to fly. some say man ain't happy truly, until man truly dies. o why?"
-Prince
i love it. i love it all. i love progressiveU. i love scholarship money. love blogs. love leaving comments on things. i love you all!
"it's silly, no? when a rocketship explodes and man still wants to fly. some say man ain't happy truly, until man truly dies. o why?"
-Prince
Loving everything isn't all it's cracked up to be.
don't rain on my flower parade over here!
"it's silly, no? when a rocketship explodes and man still wants to fly. some say man ain't happy truly, until man truly dies. o why?"
-Prince
I hadn't eaten yet, so I was kind of bitter.
Also, the first play I did in high school was Hair (yes, the musical), and it was a veritable blockbuster in my town. Everyone--EVERYONE saw it. I moved from one hippie town to the next, and watching flower parades every day just isn't as exciting anymore.
*sigh*
Must go make more food. It's the antidote to my apathy.
This guy's been spam blogging, and he's buddy-buddy with TCho the Comment Pimp. Rain on. Raining blood!
EDIT: Regarding the actual post, I disagree on making the ratings count for points. It would just be one more loophole for posers to exploit, by driving up their own ratings, not that I've ever done anything of the sort.
"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."
- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
I try to give some news articles with my own little tidbits and views. However it seems like no matter how hard I try to get people to view my stuff or two get into a debate I can't. I like to bulletin my links on Myspace to maybe get some people to see it but to no avail. As well, has anyone else had the problem with never finding out if people reply to a comment? I've commented some posts that I wish I could go back to but I have no idea how to find them.
Plus I've blogged about things that I thought were important such as the Solomon islands that just had a huge tidal wave wash over them. People were waiting for several days to even get any type of aid. I had like 4 reads for a week on it. I was hoping people would want to know more about it or give me their own research into. Or maybe trying to find some groups interested in finding a way to help. Nothing though. I don't really care about the scholarship anymore. They're are plenty of people far above my point value, but I just hope maybe after its over the more serious people will start checking out my blogs and debating/ discussing some of the issues I brought up.
Honestly, the best way to get people to read your blog is to post one blog at a time (several hours apart... I'm not sure if this applies to you or not). Then, go comment on other people's blogs. If someone likes your ideas, they will generally go and read your blogs.
~C
Visit my blog.
I just like that word. But I agree totally. Almost totally. Why less points for commenting than being commented? Sure, people can leave lame-o comments, but shouldn't they encourage comments?
I agree entirely. I feel like this site should be where people blog about news and issues, but a lot of people seem to be using it like MySpace. Thanks for being critical but also constructive of the system. There are a lot of posts out there that need to be deleted.
first & foremost, no apologies necessary, Kfed. you're better than everyone else. but Jaded, Jaded, Jaded, buddy, listen, i'm buddy-buddy with EVERYONE here, you know that! i love everyone, even you, even though you called me a "spammer".
"it's silly, no? when a rocketship explodes and man still wants to fly. some say man ain't happy truly, until man truly dies. o why?"
-Prince
So, what's your story? You should post it on "The Importance of Being kfed," unless you already have and I wasn't paying attention.
I'm curious to know, because you keep complimenting me (not that I'm complaining, and thank you, by the way) and I generally like what you write, but others seem to think you're a joke.
A lot of arguements here.
I wonder though, if there wasn't a scholarship to be given away as it is, would there be as many people on this site trying to talk about things that they feel are important....
or
Do alot of you actually care about the things you type about? If so, just keep doing it, try using your mind on mostly that of which you post and not so much of other peoples words, from different sites. And then maybe, little things like points are certain type of judging will not be a problem.
Just a though.
"All people are smart,
but it is up to them to figure that out."
-ME
http://progressiveu.org/160921-self-nostalgia
good points. i didn't know people could do things like that.
I agree. While i'm not entirely sure how this all works, It seems to me that getting points is all that really matters in the end. Though right now all i care about is trying to figure out how to get my picture onto here.
I completely agree, and I think your ideas should really be made into rules. If only the ProgressU team would listen and realize that they really need to change the point system.
Why? With all due respect, you haven't seen the numbers. We have. We know that only the best bloggers will win the contest. Because the contest is carried by reads. If people don't like what you have to say, then they won't read your blogs. If they don't read your blogs, you don't get points. If you violate the terms of service, we delete your blogs and comments, so people that spam don't have a chance of winning. Trust us, the system works.
And believe it or not, we've actually cracked down on the people that copy and paste. It's now against the terms of service, and we've deleted PLENTY of blogs in this contest alone for that violation.
~C
Read the news
Nominate a featured blogger!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the whole point system. I think people shouldn't plagerize and it is ashamed that people can get away with it. I thought this whole blogging for progress scholarship was explaining our point of views on what is happening in the world and sharing our feelings. I just want to gain a bigger perspective from being an active listener to different blogs and trying to be insightful.
I agree with you but I think that even your system isn't completely failproof. For example, if it is worth twice as much to have someone post on your blog as it is for you to post on someone elses, then the same people who are creating multiple accounts to boost their popularity may then use said multiple accounts to post on their own blog, earning them more points.
You only get points for comments YOU make, not that other people make on your blog. So, no, it's not worth twice as much.
And it's completely against the rules to have multiple accounts, and if we do find out, they will be deleted. We don't mess around.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
makes it seem so hard to even win.
Like other mods have said, you don't win if you're posting bull or cheating.
You still have a chance, even against those dirty rotten cheaters :-)
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You are the Voice of the Childwen of the Revowution! [Toulouse, Moulin Rouge]
I know I'm entering into this a bit late(both this conversation and the competition) but what else did you expect. Have you not learned yet that there will always be cheaters? Haven't you realized that wherever you go there will be someone doing everything they can to make the system work for them? Especially here on the internet...where such people can hide behind the oh-so-convenient anonymity of the username. I understand your argument clearly, and i agree, but your naivety, quite frankly, concerns me. I can only imagine someone like you entering the workforce believing that everyone always follows the rules...Well it's only a matter of time before reality chews you up and spits you out. Heres the moral of the story today, class. Life sucks, you will get screwed over and you will fail...just don't let it catch you by surprise.