Myth: All Pro-Choice women would have an abortion.
Fact: I've met several Pro-Choice women on this board who would never have an abortion personally. Some of them don't believe abortion is right or good, some of them even condemn abortion. But they call themselves Pro-Choice because they believe that everyone should be able to choose for themself, just as they did. There are still others who believe whole-heartedly in abortions for all but would never encourage any woman to go through with it, they'd believe in that woman's own right to choose and would support them.
I read this on a message board today, and wanted to share it with everyone. People always want to make abortion a black and white issue, but there are so many sides to it. Everyone has a reason for holding a certain belief. Not all pro-choice women are godless sluts who don't want any kids!
A woman could be pro-choice because she believes that it's not the government's place to know what's going on in her underwear. Another person may be pro-choice just because Roe v. Wade allows it. Some guys that I know are pro-choice because they can't imagine bringing up a baby that they can't afford.
To that last statement, a lot of pro-lifers will argue, "Put the baby up for adoption! Someone else can give him/her a better life." This sounds good in theory, and I'm all for kids being raised by parent(s) that will love them. But if anti-abortion advocates TRULY wanted to adopt a child for that purpose, why are 127,000 kids that are available for adoption living in foster homes in this country? Why don't we see more foster kids being adopted?
In my opinion, that's a weak argument.
Abortion isn't a topic that should be handled lightly. If people were more responsible when having sex, there wouldn't be a need for it (except in cases of rape and incest, obviously). But I'd rather know that women are getting abortions legally from medical doctors, than to find out that women are using a wire hangers to end a pregnancy.
Which would you prefer?
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Very eloquently written.
It is interesting to point out that women who have had abortions also respect the courageous choice to keep your child through whatever circumstances. I still ask myself, when did women who made the hard and private choice to have an abortion become "baby killers" and murderers? Moreover, who gave anyone the right to accuse such awful things of any other human being?
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Let that resonate,
Moni
“The chief obstacle to the progress of the human race is the human race.” Don Marquis (1878 - 1937)
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.
Similarly, being anti-abortion is not about being anti-choice. Not all anti-abortion people are God-worshipping virgins who want to adopt kids who otherwise would be aborted. You were raped? You're pregnant with your brother's baby? You have health issues? Feel free to have an abortion; what you do with your life or your body doesn't directly affect us.
Anti-abortion people (e.g., me) realize we can't tell people what to do. We do not seek to make abortion illegal. We don't women to be using wire hangers or straws to end a pregnancy because that's obviously dangerous. However, we are still disgusted by women who resort to abortion for fucked up reasons.
Tell me what are "fucked up" reasons?
Really. And who is anyone to judge what "fucked up" reasons are?
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Let that resonate,
Moni
“The chief obstacle to the progress of the human race is the human race.” Don Marquis (1878 - 1937)
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.
If anti-abortion isn't about anti-choice-- what is it about then?
Feel free to have an abortion; what you do with your life or your body doesn't directly affect us.
You're right -- what I do with my life and my body doesn't affect you. So why do I have to get your approval on what's an acceptable reason to have an abortion?
I know personally what it's like to be in foster care- with over 60% (that's an actual statistic, mind you, taken by social services) of foster care children being older teenagers who don't want to be adopted, there's actually waiting lists for adults who DO want to adopt children, ParticularlY infants and younger children.
Secondly, most pro-lifers find the argument in the moral decision. How many women would actually use a wire hanger to abort themselves? That's just ridiculous.
Are there any ReaL reasons for pro-choicers?
That's my opinion. Of course, I'm open to logical argument.
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"I don't care" ....
is a serious misreading of my attitude.
Are there any ReaL reasons for pro-choicers?
Easy.
A total ban means that a few women will die. Yes, it isn't many, but if those women die, so do their unborn children. That's two lives that are lost when only one needed to be lost in the first place. Follow me so far? Good.
A partial ban (as in, only those who are at a medical risk) puts up a whole bunch of red tape that needs to be cleared when a women DOES need an abortion. This clearing takes time, time that some women just don't have. And the more red tape there is, the fewer experienced individuals are willing to take the risk in the first place.
Perhaps women wouldn't use coat hangers. But instead, they might use combinations of herbs to induce a miscarriage. That can be equally hazardous on the woman's health.
But hey... they could always fly to Canada.
~C
Visit my blog: www.progressiveu.org/blog/mvenus929
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A total ban means that a few women will die. Yes, it isn't many, but if those women die, so do their unborn children. That's two lives that are lost when only one needed to be lost in the first place.
Good point.
Perhaps women wouldn't use coat hangers.
There's no telling. Depending on the level of the woman's desperation she might be willing to try anything instead of going through with a pregnancy. Coat hangers, herbs - or more dangerous poisons, blunt force to the abdomen, starvation, and point blank suicide are all options for ending a pregnancy in a world without readily available medical abortions.
/jkh
Sorry it took so long to reply!
"A partial ban (as in, only those who are at a medical risk) puts up a whole bunch of red tape that needs to be cleared when a women DOES need an abortion. This clearing takes time, time that some women just don't have. And the more red tape there is, the fewer experienced individuals are willing to take the risk in the first place."
My sister just had an abortion (last year/ year and a half-ish). I don't know what kind of crappy doctors you've had to deal with, and I can't say that I personally know a whole lot of abortion doctors myself (4/???), but I never thought an hour was a lot of time. If a woman comes in screaming from pain because there's obviously something very wrong, it would take a serious idiot to make her wait That long. Trained medical professionals are titled thusly for a reason. Am I wrong?
I don't understand this "bunch of red tape." live? Die? Obvious complications? How much risk would some bozo take on an existing life?
I don't know anyone who supports a total ban. Blocked off in a life-or-death situation? It would never pass, or even be seriously considered.
I don't think our beliefs are that far apart.
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~ Raven
STAND for SOMETHING.
How many women would actually use a wire hanger to abort themselves? That's just ridiculous.
Not for a second is that ridiculous. Imagine, for a moment, that you have been raised to believe that sex is bad and only bad, immoral, loose, dirty, shameful, sinful girls have sex before marriage. Your parents WILL disown you and you WILL be kicked out of the house -- at best. Legal, safe abortion isn't an option. You can't get enough money together for an unsafe back alley abortion. What's left? A coat hanger. A mix of poisonous herbs. You could try douching with Clorox. You could throw yourself down a set of stairs.
Well? Go on. Pick one. Any of them will likely result in death.
I am GLAD that I live in a world where, should I find myself in a situation requiring abortion, I won't have to resort to any of those methods. I am grateful that women before me have protested and fought for it. I am thankful that I live in a country where it's relatively accessible.
Abortion should always be safe, legal, accessible, and rare.
My parents are hardcore conservative.
I don't believe in total ban, that's just stupid.
And, I'm a minor. I WOULD be disowned. I WOULD be kicked out of the house. Hey, I'm also a minor, fill in the rest with your imagination.
But I believe in making the right decision by my own values, and that includes not removing what is growing in me or hurting myself in the attempt thusly.
If the mother is in danger of a lethal compication or miscarriage, abortional SHOULD be available.
I'm glad to be an American too.
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~ Raven
STAND for SOMETHING.
If people were more responsible when having sex, there wouldn't be a need for it (except in cases of rape and incest, obviously).
That's simply not true.
(1) Some pregnancies cause changes to a woman's body that can be fatal to both mother and child.
For example: The only treatment option for any hopeful, would-be mother who has an ectopic pregnancy is the abortion of that pregnancy. Otherwise she dies when the fetus grows large enough to burst her fallopian tube.
(2) Sometimes people take responsible birth control measures and still end up pregnant.
For example: A married couple who both work full time to support their four children under the age of four desire to engage in sexual intercourse but every birth control method they've tried has failed, including the most recent one.
Abortion does not exist only as a consequence of irresponsibility.
/jkh
Just wanted to add this along with it, haha.
Even if a man gets a vasectomy, he can still get a woman pregnant. Funny, isn't it? Sometimes, some couple can only fall back onto the Rhythm Method because they're either [a] allergic / have bad reactions to birth control or [b] can't afford birth control. ( I think A would be more often, thank PP for low cost BC. )
You're very right, I appologize I assumed that "If people were more responsible when having sex, there wouldn't be a need for it (except in cases of rape and incest, obviously)." would include the other obviouses (mow, I know) of complications, failure of "safe" sex, etc.
I'm pretty sure I put in "except" to clear up any misunderstandings that I would ever think "Abortion does not exist only as a consequence of irresponsibility."
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~ Raven
STAND for SOMETHING.
I certainly agree with you. Can any of you pro-life folk imagine what it would be like if women had to go back to coat hangers? I don't even want to think about it. I'm pro-choice and I say that proudly because I don't feel like anyone has the right to tell me, or anyone else, what can or cannot be done to our own bodies. So, to the pro-life guys, how would you feel if you were told that... say, jacking off or receiving oral is illegal because you're killing potential children? Wouldn't that suck? I mean... not because you can't get off but because it's YOUR body. Who's to say that someone else can have ANY say or type of opinion over what you do with it because... well, it's YOURS. Right?
I have friends who are pro-choice and friend who are pro-life. I'm happy to say that I can readily respect both sides, when they are properly educated. Like you said, not all choicers are soulless baby-killers, and not all lifers are religious cases out to enslave women. Both sides are sincere (for the majority) about women, fetii, and what goes on between the two. And so long as no one is sersiously considering taking my right to privacy away so I can be forced to give birth, then let the lifers have their arguements.
The problem with the argument about "It's my body, I can do what I want," is that it isn't ONLY your body. What, you think that until a person can pass entrance exams to Harvard that they aren't people and don't have their own rights? I am so glad I have the Lord in my life and can see how screwed up the world is becoming. I really am, and I feel so sorry for those who've let Satan allow them to think outright murder is okay, as long as the person is too small and innocent to be able to fight back. I think that was Hitler's motto about killing Jewish children.
I wasn't initially going to go there, but since I've been taking a college biology class, I've become much less indecisive. As soon as the sperm hits the egg, a child begins to grow. Cell after cell of a new life. As soon as the slightest trace of brain can be found, brain waves can be detected. If a human being is only so when it can fend for itself, we don't become "alive" until we're... 20? 30?
And (for all the mothers and soon-to-be mothers I know) the moment that woman knows (which most do by instinct), she feels love for that "ball of cells."
That's a sensitive issue, fighting as to whether or not a bundle of growing, reproducing cells that can receive love is actually a life or not. The more I learn about it, the less I understand the argument. Or am I too sentimental? Does the sound of a heartbeat mean something to only half of us?
But once again, feel free to argue. I may well be missing something.
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~ Raven
STAND for SOMETHING.
its such a fine line issue, and yes, people always paint it up to be black or white. i'm sick of that. so many things go into each case, money, rape, religion.