There are just alot of things I don't understand about Christians...Like how they can support homosexuality. I am a Christian, but I just don't understand how they can support this! (I don't) I mean, it condemns homosexuality in teh bible.....! "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9–10, NIV).
"People have a basic, ethical intuition that certain behaviors are wrong because they are unnatural. We perceive intuitively that the natural sex partner of a human is another human, not an animal." Helloooo would you try to marry or have sex with an animal?? I think not...so why would you want to marry or have sex with a person of the same sex??? The NATURAL sexual partner for a man is a woman, and visa versa. You are defying the natural laws if you think otehr wise.
Maybe you say, "What about people who are 'born that way'" Well, we all have temptations, this is theirs. It isn't impossible to overcome. We are all called to chastity, even those who aren't homosexuals. It is like a married man lusting after another woman. But it is possible to over come,St. Paul says "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it" (1 Cor. 10:13).
SO, let us pray for those who struggle with this, as we struggle with our own temptations, that together we can overcome our sins and be with Christ in eternity. Don't you agree?
Homosexuality and Christians
By lovelypurerose - Posted on November 29th, 2006
Wow. Way to speak out. I don't agree with it, but I can't judge people for it.
Simply Free
There is a difference between supporting homosexual behavior, and not condemning it. Just because a person does not interfere with another person does not necessarily mean that the person supports or condones that other person's behavior.
If you believe it is a sin, then don't practice homosexuality and don't enter into a gay-marriage. But you have no right (Do not judge and all that) to tell someone else they can't.
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"Dream as though you'll live forever, but live as though there's no tomorrow" --James Dean
http://www.progressiveu.org/user/fanaile-drupal-org
Homosexuality may not be "natural" in that it doesn't result in offspring, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in nature either. Lots of animals exhibit homosexual behavior for a variety of reasons. I'm not saying that we're animals and therefore we should act like them, no problem, but homosexuality isn't something that's just confined to some people. I also see your point of homosexuality being their cross to bear as insensitive and even mean-spirited. Have you ever even talked to someone of different sexuality about how they feel? You also bring up a verse that says idolaters, thieves, drunkards, etc will never see heaven (in addition to homosexuals). What if they are Christians and they make a mistake? Are we not all fallible? When Christ died on the cross it was to forgive EVERYONE for EVERYTHING FOREVER; it becomes a matter of accepting that or not. There are homosexuals who are Christians and they do struggle because so many Christians see it fit to condemn them, acting like Pharisees more than disciples of Christ. Are you without sin? What makes you fit to cast the first stone, as it were? One of the biggest Christian myths is that homosexuals can be converted or that it's just "tough for them" that they were born that way. Where's the love, grace, and compassion Jesus taught? Why must you pick out a few verses to clobber other people who are different than you with? It's another form of bigotry, or making yourself feel better by pointing out the speck in other people's eyes (when there's a plank in your own). Leave the judgment to God, in the meantime, love people for who they are as Jesus did.
"The trouble with having an open mind is people insist on coming along and putting things in it"-Terry Pratchett
I am not judging, I am encouraging those with this to rise up higher than their temptations. I was encouraging those who have to bear this cross, so how could I have been meanspirited?? We all have crosses to bear, we need support from others, look at the verse I put at the end..
"encouraging those with this "
I'm not sure; did you intend to sound as though it were a disease or illness of some sort?
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"Dream as though you'll live forever, but live as though there's no tomorrow" --James Dean
http://www.progressiveu.org/user/fanaile-drupal-org
Perhaps your intention was to be positive, but it didn't across that way at all (especially the early exclamations). Very early on you say how homosexuality is not natural and liken it to bestiality and you later comment of "that's their temptation" is insensitive at best. The vibe that came across was one of moral superiority and judgment of a single group of people. Perhaps this was not your intention, but saying "Let's pray for them to turn from their unnatural ways" IS being judgmental; it's just packaged up to look helpful. I still stand by my assessment and if your intentions are other than what came across, I would suggest going back over the entry because it certainly appears you are trying to take the moral high ground to look down on other people.
"The trouble with having an open mind is people insist on coming along and putting things in it"-Terry Pratchett
No, I was just saying as a fellow sinner....like..I need encouragement with not being mean to my siblings, do you understand what I mean? But then again, sin is sort of like an illness if you think about it...and Jesus is the only cure...interesting philosophy...maybe I will blog on that.....
I'm a Christian. I believe in Evolution, I'm pro-choice and I'm all for stem cell research. And, oh yeah, I'm fine if two people of the same sex want to be together. Are you going to tell me I'm not a Christian? Because Christian are suppose to believe this and only this?
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Matthew 7:1-3). You say your not judging anyone, but you are. You are judgeing me because I don't think like you. Yes the bible says homosexualty is a sin.
But tell me this, do you have a favorite singer or actor or actress? Because, unless I'm very mistaken, another thing in this passage that is a sin is an idolator. The definition of idolator is one who blindly or excessively admires or adores another. Thats up there with homosexality?
Well, if you have followed the bible word for word for everloving word, then good for you. You're a "good Christian."
"We percieve intuitively that the natural sex partner for a human is another HUMAN not an animal"
That does not mean the most natural sex partner for a man is a woman, it means that the most natural sex partner is a HUMAN. The natural sex partner for a heterosexual man is a woman, for a homosexual man it would be a man. In fact a homosexual man having sex with a woman would be a crime against nature, if you're worried about natural laws being broken.
"'What about people who are born that way?' well we all have our temptations this is theirs".
Typical. First you crazy Christians harp on about homosexuality being a form of sexual perversion, a deviance, and using this to justify your persecution of homos for centuries. Based on the assertion that it wasn't 'a natural state'. Then when technology advances enough to establish that true homosexuality is in fact innate, and beyond the control of the individual, you start misting the issue with vagueries like temp-fuckin-tation, c'mmon now...It's more than temptation, it is naturally assigned sexual orientation, if it is innate, it can't be a product of environment, it has to be a product of nature, not nurture. There is no freedom of will involved in true homosexuality. So it can't qualify as a sin, even if such a thing actually existed.
I actually took a short break from typing to make a retard face at the monitor.
Where was I?...or yes....
"We are all bound to chastity"!!!??!?!
There goes that retard face again...with sound effects....
Who says we're all bound to chastity? That is crazy talk. Just because a percentage of nutjobs have decided to beat themselves up about sex, and you agree with them, that does not mean that WE are bound to anything. If YOU are, well that's your tough shit, obviously God felt it necessary to punish you with a crippling sense of shame. But I love to bone, if God had a problem with that then he'd stop making so many easy women, not busy himself flooding the market.
"So let us pray for those who struggle with this...."
I'm praying......praying that they can pull your head out of your ass without tearing your ears on the barbs of that big old chastity belt you wear.
I would first like to address Mari2007's comment. "
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Matthew 7:1-3). You say your not judging anyone, but you are. You are judgeing me because I don't think like you. Yes the bible says homosexualty is a sin."
Ok, I am trying not to judge, merely understand the thinking of those who support this. And actually IF i am judging, I am not judging you because "you don't think like me" who cares what I think.....I am fallible. GOd is infallible....Why would I even tell you to think like me when tehre is God???? Also, by saying that I am judging you is actually judging me...just wanted to point that out. And I have actresses and singers that I like, but I don't "blindly or excessively admires or adore" them because we all have our flaws...trust me, I do too, I am not at all saying I am perfect and ragging on everyone else. I am the first one to say taht I am a sinner. And I never said that I am a "Good Christian" heck no I am not a good Christian...I am not! I have no patience, I have tons of temptations and I sin too!.
Okay, by you saying that I am judging you for saying that You judge me is actually you judging me for saying that you are judging me.
Actually, if you say you are aChristian, than you are bound to Chastity, and I am very proud of my big old chastity belt (nice title btw). Ok, now on to TUFFGONG's comments.
Have you ever read aristotle? He talks about the natural and moral laws...(Just a note on the side, he came BEFORE Jesus...and he was as close to the truth as you can get without actually having it if you understand waht I am saying). The natural law engrained in us says that the natural partner for a man is a woman, and the natural partner for a woman is a man...I mean, when God decided to give Adam a partner, he didn't give him a MAN did He? NO HE GAVE HIM A WOMAN! There is no "natural partner" for a homosexual man, because a homosexual man himself isn't natural!
Okay, next comment.
"First you crazy Christians harp on about homosexuality being a form of sexual perversion, a deviance, and using this to justify your persecution of homos for centuries."- Using it to justify our persecution of homos for centuries......? Oooookay. We are only "Persecuting" as you like to call it because we love them. Yes, we "christians" love homosexuals. We want them to be in Heaven with Christ. So, our persecuting as you call it comes from love, not hate, and it is not an excuse.
Next...."Then when technology advances enough to establish that true homosexuality is in fact innate, and beyond the control of the individual," What the heck "Technology" are you talking about? I would really like to know. Since when is there technology that can tell whether some thought or feeling is engrained in our being or not? Answer me that. Plus, okay, lets say that I have engrained in me a "natural" drive or urge to kill people. So, Does taht make it right for me to just go out and kill people, of course not! Just in the same way people who have "natural" homosexuality engrained in them as you say, it still does not make it right to just go out and have sex etc. with people of the same sex.
"We are all bound to chastity"!!!??!?! Yup...we are. If you are a Christian you are bound to chastity. And it is the bible taht says that, not me...fyi. "But the body is not for immoriality;it is for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body." 1Cor. 6,13. Soooo from this we know that Christ wants us to be pure and chaste. (another fyi-Chaste doesn't mean you can't have sex, it just means that you should have sex in the right context...the context of marriage between one man and one woman). To any one who is interested, read 1 corinthians chapter 6 and 7. Very good stuff. Soooo...onto pulling my head out of my rear.....still workin on that one...and I probably will be untill I die...there are tons of things I am mistaken about....(I have a feeling that this isn't one of them though.,.)and my chastity belt....well....thanks for the new title..i like it. "I am going into this withyou for your own good. I have no desire to place restrictions on you, but I do want to promote what is good, what will help you to devote yourselves entirely to the Lord." 1Cor 7, 35.
"Have you read Aristotle..."
So you expect me to take something which was deduced by a man who lived before Jesus, over people with access, not only to far more new information, including Aristotle's collected works, but also people with access to technology which Aristotle didn't, not to mention the extensive developments in medicine and the understanding of anatomy and the phsyiology of the human brain which has occurred since the days of either Aristotle or the Bible. Should all this be disregarded because some guy thousands of years ago had a hunch about natural law based on the limited information available to him?
As for Adam and Eve...C'mmon now. I'm goin to start arguing about that fairy tale.
You're whole stance on Christians loving homos and wanting to help them into heaven is hilarious. I was raised in a mixed Christian family, Methodist and Roman Catholic, and I attended a Roman Catholic high school. Please don't try to bullshit me like I've never ingaged with a Christian in dialogue before. I am all too familiar with general Christian attitudes to homosexuality, and they don't have a whole lot of love in there.
As for technology: the technology I'm referring to would include brain scaning equipment, which allows doctors to establish the physical dynamics of a living human brain, and how it works when confronted with certain stimuli in controlled conditions. I'm also talking about sensors which establish states and causes of natural arrousal, and how the brain behaves physically from individual to individual. These tools combined and used in long term studies of individuals' sexuality, from infant to young adult help establish that true homosexuality is hardwired, as is heterosexuality, whereas bi-sexuality is not a natural state but a state of sexual deviance, where the reason for the individuals bi-sexuality is psychological and not physiological.
It has not been established that a person is born with a natural predisposition to murder in cold blood. So it would be safe to assume that this behaviour is a learned behaviour; the result of nurture as opposed to nature. The same would go for clinical psychopathy and narcissistic personality disorder, both of which are conditions which develop after birth as a product of environment and experience. So your equating of naturally occurring sexual orientation to murderous learned behaviour does not hold water. Again it is based on outdated assumptions.
The big problem with many Christian beliefs lies in the fact that man is fallible, but by claiming the Bible to be the word of God, Christians can conveniently smooth over the fallibility of their scriptures. The Bible is fallible, it was written thousands of years ago. I mean people were still drilling holes in each others heads to relieve head ache.
You are being waaaaay to harsh about this. You are totally going to turn away homosexuals from Christians that way. Homosexuals already think that Christians hate them. You're just pushing it that way.
Ok...you are retarded...You have got to be and I am praying for your salvation. Obviously you weren't raised in a TRUE Roman Catholic home, and sorry to break it to you, but I only know of ONE Roman Catholic Highschool that is truly Roman Catholic. The rest of them teach mostly lies and heresies. As for the rest of hte insanities you have said, I agree with aKATIEaffair. YOu are being waaaay to harsh about this, and one would get the idea that you WANT to turn homosexuals and everyone else away from Christianity. Sorry to tell you, but it won't be me that will be disappointed when they are wrong about most of this stuff. Christians DON"T hate homosexuals, they just disagree with them. I don't HATE my dad just because we disagree on capital punishment. I love him. I love homosexuals. I just disagree with them. I don't see why you don't understand that. I am sorry if you have encountered Christians who feel otherwise. You obviously are lackingin a good Christian environment.
Obviously you haven't read Aristotle then. HE was a genious for what he was able to deduce even before Christ came. Truth is truth, whether it was truth a thousand years or more ago or today. Truth is always truth and a lie is always a lie.
ADAM AND EVE IS A FAIRY TALE??? WHERE DID YOU COME FROM YOU WIERDO? I honestly would like to know what you DO believe if you believe all this stuff you are trying to shove down my throat....lemme guess...Evolution...the big bang theory.....You are an Atheist.......Or some other perverted religion.
I still don't believe that you are born gay. It is something you learn or develop after puberty. Why would you be when the majority of the world is heterosexual....and when you are a little kid, even though you see this, you say "Nope...I am gay". What the heck??? I mean, it doesn't even make sense. Where would that feeling come from? When you go through puberty everything changes, thoughts go through your head and everything is much different than it was before.....you are more rebellious, you begin to think for yourself.
Man is fallible. You are right about that....But the Bible is not....The Bible is God's word to man which is infallible. Christ was born 2,000 years ago, but we still believe that he was born, do we not??? Use that same logic with the bible...why wouldn't it be true? All I can say is wow......Now I am the one making retarded faces at my monitor.
"I agree with aKATIEaffair. YOu are being waaaay to harsh about this, and one would get the idea that you WANT to turn homosexuals and everyone else away from Christianity"
I'm not positive, and only aKATIEaffair can confirm the meaning behind this statement - but I'm pretty sure it was directed towards you, not anyone else (since it wasn't written as a reply to any other comment, just as a reply to your blog.
But nice to see the namecalling come out. No, that's not judgemental at all.
And sorry to break it to you, but the Bible is fallible. Even *if* the original Bible was written as your God meant it to be, man has made changes, translations, taken stuff out, and added stuff in. So, provided that the original Bible *might* have been God's intent - man has still made it very much fallible.
I'm done with you now. Go pray to someone else.
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"Dream as though you'll live forever, but live as though there's no tomorrow" --James Dean
http://www.progressiveu.org/user/fanaile-drupal-org
"Obviously you haven't read Aristotle then..."
Look, your name dropping aside, Aristotles work is interesting and was groundbreaking at the time, but just because he is Aristotle that does not mean he cannot be wrong. I know it's a cool name like Plato or Socrates to drop in to validate your view, but they are still philosophers who existed thousands of years ago, and if the had access to the information we had today, you can be sure they would change their stance on many things.
"Truth is always truth and a lie is always a lie..."
Yeah like the earth was flat, that was a truth, in fact you could have been executed for stating otherwise at the time. Is it still a truth?
Adam and Eve is a fairytale. But that does not mean I believe solely in evolution. You see that's the problem with Christians they only see theism vs aethism. I believe there are too many holes in both creationism and evolution to draw a conclusion. I believe in fact and certainty, not picking a team and making leaps of faith to clear the voids where there is no conclusive evidence.
I like the way you belittle others' religion to 'wierdo religion', that's real nice, not to mention open minded and non-judgemental. That aside, I think your religion is a wierdo religion, and I actually have a frame of reference because I was raised Christian and have a mostly Christian family. I'm not an Aethist either, I am Agnostic, and there is nothing wierd about that, unless you count wanting facts and proof before making a decision wierd.
"I still don't believe that you are born gay..."
Well, there you have it. You say you don't "believe". Belief means nothing here, when you are faced with facts and you just ignore them because they contradict what you "believe". Why don't you spend less time "believeing" stuff and more time trying to understand it.
As for the Bible not being fallible....I can only deduce from that statement that you are hopelessy naive, blinded by your beliefs into using no critical reasoning whatsoever when analyzing your own religion.
As for you being the one now making retarded faces at the monitor, well that's because you can't help it, because God decided to punish you for being so naive.
Ok....where to begin. Obviously you weren't raised in a TRUE Roman Catholic home, and sorry to break it to you, but I only know of ONE Roman Catholic Highschool that is truly Roman Catholic. The rest of them teach mostly lies and heresies. As for the rest of hte insanities you have said, I agree with aKATIEaffair. YOu are being waaaay to harsh about this, and one would get the idea that you WANT to turn homosexuals and everyone else away from Christianity. Sorry to tell you, but it won't be me that will be disappointed when they are wrong about most of this stuff. Christians DON"T hate homosexuals, they just disagree with them. I don't HATE my dad just because we disagree on capital punishment. I love him. I love homosexuals. I just disagree with them. I don't see why you don't understand that. I am sorry if you have encountered Christians who feel otherwise. You obviously are lackingin a good Christian environment.
Obviously you haven't read Aristotle then. HE was a genious for what he was able to deduce even before Christ came. Truth is truth, whether it was truth a thousand years or more ago or today. Truth is always truth and a lie is always a lie.
ADAM AND EVE IS A FAIRY TALE??? WHERE DID YOU COME FROM YOU WIERDO? I honestly would like to know what you DO believe if you believe all this stuff you are trying to shove down my throat....lemme guess...Evolution...the big bang theory.....You are an Atheist.......Or some other perverted religion.
I still don't believe that you are born gay. It is something you learn or develop after puberty. Why would you be when the majority of the world is heterosexual....and when you are a little kid, even though you see this, you say "Nope...I am gay". What the heck??? I mean, it doesn't even make sense. Where would that feeling come from? When you go through puberty everything changes, thoughts go through your head and everything is much different than it was before.....you are more rebellious, you begin to think for yourself.
Man is fallible. You are right about that....But the Bible is not....The Bible is God's word to man which is infallible. Christ was born 2,000 years ago, but we still believe that he was born, do we not??? Use that same logic with the bible...why wouldn't it be true? All I can say is wow......Now I am the one making retarded faces at my monitor.
I can't pull you down for being so open with your opinion. I personally am a christian and guess what? MY best friend is GAY!! What do you do? You start a cool new friendship with a person, start having awesome conversations and so on and then she feels close enough to tell you that she's gay. Do you say- OH NO, I don't believe in your ways so forget the past 2 months of a really unbias friendship? NO, I think that you should show God's love and leave the judging up to HIM!! Isn't that somewhere in your bible?? I know it's in mine!
Peace n Bike Grease~Sara
I am not at all against having a friendship with someone who is gay! Did I say I was??? I am not friends with anyone who is gay only because I have never been EXPOSED personally to someone who is gay, so that is quite impossible for me at the moment. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, we are supposed to love everyone whether they are gay or not, no disagreements there.
Anyway, now I am like..oookkay who did aKATIEaffair refer to when she said that......I thought she was referring to the otehr person because he kept saying that Christians hate homosexuals...and I didn't think she was referring to me because I was trying to explain that they don't.....And I don't see how she could have been referring to me if she was...Like I said...I am trying to tell you taht Christians (or...at least me....I probably shouldn't speak for everyone) do love gays, and we want to see everyone in heaven. Ok?
I never said you are against having a friendship with someone who is gay. I was making a personal example to EVERYONE how being gay and everything that comes with it is NOT a black and white matter- it is very complicated and is not as easy as just a right and wrong approach.
Peace n Bike Grease~Sara
Even though there is alot more information than Aristotle (and plato and socrates) had in their day, I think their views would be the same because they were views that didn't depend on technology...I mean, in logic, how could they, there was NO technology back then. The most advanced thing was .....what.....a sundial...and catapault? So they based their philosophies on things that didn't depend on change...like our souls. We have a moral law written on our souls whether we have a religion or not. That hasn't changed...I mean, when you are little, even if you don't know "Right from wrong" when you do something wrong, you know it...you go and hide under your bed with your easter candy and munch away( yeah....I speak from experience...lol).It is the moral law in us that says.."whoops..that was a mistake...I better go hide cuz I am a coward..." So, what they said waaaay back when is still really relevant.
Okay, maybe people thought that the earth was flat....but there were people who thought and proved otherwise....even if they risked their lives to do so...so obviously you aren't going to risk your life for something you "Think" is true, unless you are positive...right?
Ok, the thing I am not understanding is taht you have said two or three times that Adam and Eve is a fairytale...but you aren't backing it up. Scientists have deduced that we came from one similiar parent type couple....(wierd wording...but I am hoping whoever reads this can understand it...) Biblicality aside...that makes sense. I think they have actually named them too....But I don't know what...It might be Adam and Eve but Icould be wrong. I don't understand the 'holes" you are talking about in creation v. evolution....if you could clarify.........
Ok...I am sorry for calling your um...religion....(is agnosticism a religion so muchas a belief? ) weirdo I obviously get (very) worked up when i am debating things I am really strongly convicted about...just ask my dad....lol.
Ok...you said there aren't people who are born with a tendency toward murder. There are males who are born with extra testosterone who have strong inclinations towards violence and unless they control their feelings, they are put in jail. They are born with a fault...but have do deal with it, or they become a threat to society (and NO I AM NOT SAYING THAT GAYS ARE A THREAT TO SOCIETY!) my point is taht they have to learn how to suppress their emotions.
And again...much like the Adam and Eve thing...you aren't backing up your belief that the bible is fallible...you are just saying it is....Where is the proof.
Okay, this argument aside, I do want to compliment you because you are really good at debating.
Why'dya'll get on my case for name calling..when what's his name said tempt-f**kin'-tation.........Doesn't make sense to me...all I said was wierdo.
I was refering to the original blog post when I said you were being way to harsh agains homosexuals.
"Helloooo would you try to marry or have sex with an animal?? I think not...so why would you want to marry or have sex with a person of the same sex??? The NATURAL sexual partner for a man is a woman, and visa versa. You are defying the natural laws if you think otehr wise."
personally i am ofended how you are comparing having sex with another human being with having sex with animals. it is no were near the same. and personally i think homosexuality is just as natuaral as a man and a women. you cant chose who you fall in love with. and homosexuality is not hurting anyone
~ <3 Breanne <3 ~