I'm not confirmed to any religion but I love reading about all of them because there's a lot of beautiful beliefs in each one, but there's a lot of bad ones too. I love and hate organized religions.
I love the history of all of them, and the culture of the people who follow them. I hate so much that just because they're so different in the simplest but sometimes most important ways they say that every other belief is wrong. I really have isues with Catholocism, Christianity and Islam. Yeah, some people don't follow the religion word for word, but their books are so fucking scary! They basically say that everyone who doesn't follow what the Bible or the Koran says is going to hell. And hell is a pretty scary place. In that way I can almost understand why people kill over religious disagreements.
How can you be friends with someone who thinks they're going to heaven and you won't be there? My great grandmom's a hardcore Christian, her two children are agnostic, and their children are not religious, but my great grandma still thinks that she's going to heaven and the rest of her whole family's going to go to hell because they don't agree with her.
My uncle's atheist, his wife's Catholic, their children are agnostic and Roman Catholic. And they have no problems with that. Isn't it painful to live with people, your family, and then go to church on Sunday and be reminded that half of them won't be there in the afterlife? That sucks.
But then of course all of this brings about the question well if you're just a good person do you go to heaven? For religions that's just not good enough. Because that's the only way to think to get along and be happy with eachother. No one knows. Doesn't it freak you out? Doesn't it make you think? Why isn't religion talked about more? I want to believe in a heaven so badly but if I did I'd have to believe that I would never see some of my closest friends and family when I die, and that's to sad to think about. It's too complex.
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Religion isn't talked about anymore because some have marked it as a Taboo topic like abortions and politics. Nearly everyone has diffrent beliefs that confilict with others, myself I'm a devote christian but like to take into account what other religions believe, its interesting. But I think too many times others judge diffrent religions and thats when things get nasty.
I don't beleive in abortion either and it is also against my religion, but I think people should have a choice. There should be some sort of limitation though. Like abrotion should not be allowed in the third trimester. For me i think it is more of the government telling people what they can and cannot do. Many times it may be better to have an abortion than for a teenager to bring a child into this world under such harsh conditions.
I'm a devote Christian who enjoys hearing about other religions but of corse I do think mine is the right one. It is sad for me at times because I know that some of my friends and family will not be with me but that is why I live as an example and pray for them everyday in hopes that God will touch their hearts and make them see what I see. Some people may think this is a Bible thumping way of doing things but I'm not forcing anyone to anything I'm simply sharing and I have to accept it when others believe differently. As sad as it is to believe in something those you care about don't I know in heaven I won't be sad anymore. In heaven everyone will be different and sadness will not be part of who we are anymore. You're right, it is very difficult to think about but that is where faith comes in and faith is the strongest part of any religion. May you find peace and happiness in your search for the truth.
What do you mean by "Catholicism *and* Christianity"? That's like saying "Floridians *and* Americans."
Floridians *are* American; and Catholics *are* Christians (as are Eastern Orthodox and Protestants). That having been said . . .
The difference between you and us (i.e. orthodox Christians) is that we don't believe that we are the ultimate arbiters of what is or is not true in matters pertaining to the supernatural. We have enough sense to know that of ourselves we are only competent to speak definitively on things pertaining to the natural world. In those matters pertaining to the hereafter we need to rely on Divine Revelation.
Whether God has in fact deigned to reveal himself to man is a separate question entirely.
I should add that I am a Catholic. My two best friends are a Protestant and a soon-to-be Hindu guru. Dogmatic intolerance (i.e. finding someone's beliefs incompatible with my own) does not preclude civil tolerance.
I should also add that I do not know whether any particular person is in Hell; speaking for Catholic Christianity, the Church herself has never said that any particular person (even Judas Iscariot) is in hell. This is something known to God alone. While we do believe that "outside the Church there is no salvation," we also believe that one can be joined to the Church by a desire to be a member (i.e. a desire to be baptized), and that sometimes this desire is not explicit but implicit (e.g. the God-fearing pagan who, through no fault of his own, does not know of Christianity). We also acknowledge that it is possible that someone may know of the existence of Catholicism, but that through no fault of their own they are inculpably ignorant of the need to become Catholic. Whether someone posesses such ignorance is known only to God.
I'm morally certain that the teaching of Eastern Orthodoxy on this issue is akin to that of Catholicism; I cannot speak for conservative Protestantism.
Otherwise, thanks for bringing this up!
It's time we Christians stopped letting other religions out shine our light of and for the world. There is so much attention being given to Islam because Muslems show the courage of faith to stand behind their Quran, false as it is, by being willing to kill those that will not follow it. Christians were more pure in there support for the only true Word of God, the Bible, before Secular forces in the Enlightenment started to restrict implementation of the many specific Biblical injunctions to kill those that refuse to accept Jesus as their King! As Jesus himself explain by parable "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Luke 19:27 and further "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." Matt 10:34
Contrary to the current sanitized Secular garbage pushed by New Age psudeo-Christian teachings so common, Jesus never wanted us Christians to embrace diversity and accept infidels. "Love thy neighbor" means exactly that, CHRISTIAN neighbors. As Christians we are NOT to extend love, especially to non-Christians. "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26
Get right with God! Start actually reading what is in the Bible instead of the Secular Sanitized warm fuzzies promoted by New Age Christians. Your eternal soul depends on your doing as Jesus instructs you to.
whoa, this is the most un-progressive thing I've ever read.
I have a problem with the whole accepted to heaven thing. To me, it's like saying you're more likely to get into med or law school because you declared pre-med or pre-law. You can still do the same things as the unsaved, but because you have "faith" you suddenly have a get out of jail free card? It's never made sense to me.
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
Suffice it to say that the views of "God's Own Child" have never been those of mainstream, orthodox Christianity.
Jesus (and later his Apostles) commanded his disciples to love their enemies and to bless those who persecuted them. This is so well-known I need not give the specific references.
Thank you Eric for educating us on the Bible. I was not aware of Luke and Matt NOT being Jesus' own words. Please explain to all of us then just who it was that spoke the words I posted.
And please also inform all of us as to which small splitter Christian cult was responsible for the Crusades, the Inquisition, Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre and the like? Since you claim they were NOT from mainstream, orthodox Christianity.
God's Own Child:
Again, suffice it to say that no mainstream Christian denomination has ever understood those passages to mean what you say they do. This is not the proper forum to get into Biblical exegesis, and I will not do so here. Bible commentaries are easily accessible to the readers of this blog. I'm not gonna reinvent the wheel.
As to all the historical happenings you note:
1) The Crusades were just wars against the aggressive forces of Islam (however flawed these wars were in their execution).
2) The Inquisitions, whose "reign of terror" has been grossly exagerrated by proponents of the anti-Catholic (and anti-Spanish) "Black Legends," did not operate on the principle of "Hate heretics," however lamentable we may see these today.
3) The St. Bartholomew Days' Massacre was not sponsored by the Church, but was an act of the French Royal Crown.
Please note that I did not say that orthodox Christians have never hated those who disagreed with their beliefs. All I have asserted is that no mainstream denomination (Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, etc.) has advocated hatred against another human being.
Here hatred is defined, not in the sometime-Biblical sense of "loving less" but "to wish ill upon."
Eric, again. I find it amazing that you personally know what every "mainstream Christian denomination has ever understood" . And further that although you claim "This is not the proper forum to get into Biblical exegesis, and I will not do so here." you then go on to do so at length. IOW YOU will, but don't want anyone else to follow suit!
Your rambling effort to distort history is incredible. But rather than me "get(ting) into Biblical exegesis", let's just correct your most blantant attempt at historical revisionism.
"3) The St. Bartholomew Days' Massacre was not sponsored by the Church, but was an act of the French Royal Crown."
The Catholic Church decided to draw a line in France in an effort to stop the widely spreading Protestant Reformation, which had started in Germany and caused the conversion of 1/3rd of the Christian population AWAY from the Catholic Church. The Vatican, thru the King of France's Court spiritual adviser —a Jesuit priest— urged the Court to massacre the Protestants. French soldiers AND the Roman Catholic clergy fell upon the unarmed people, and blood flowed like a river throughout the entire country. When news of the Massacre reached the Vatican there was jubilation! Cannons roared—bells rung—and a special commemorative medal was struck—to honor the occasion! The Pope commissioned Italian artist Vasari to paint a mural of the Massacre—which still hangs in the Vatican!
The Huguenots won a short period of relief from persecution with the ascension of Henry IV to the throne. The Edict of Nantes gave full freedom to his Protestants subjects. However, for granting his subjects liberty of conscience, the king was stabbed to death by a Jesuit named Ravaillac. This Edict of Toleration was revoked and a new storm of persecution ensued. The exodus began again with over a million Huguenots fleeing France to avoid certain torture and death as oredered by the Catholic Church..
Oh, one quicky on your attempted white washing of the Crusades, Arnald-Amalric, (Papal Legate, 1208) when asked by the Crusaders what to do with the citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars "Kill them all, God will recognize his own".
But perhaps you want to claim the Catholic Church is NOT a "mainstream Christian denomination", Many Christians want to claim Catholicism is NOT Christianity. So let's look specifically at THE great Reformer and major source of theology behind Protestant movement. Martin Luther was very vocal at using the Bibical injuctions you want to pretend "that no mainstream denomination (Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, etc.) has advocated hatred against another human being." What did Luther have to say about Jews?
"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, ... Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. ... In brief, ... those of you who have Jews under your rule:.. so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews ... Do not grant them protection, safe-conduct, or communion with us ... so it is not necessary to burden ourselves also with these alien, shameful vices of the Jews ...Such a desperate, thoroughly evil poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews, who for these fourteen hundred years have been and still are our plague, our pestilence, and our misfortune... My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews ... they are surely possessed by all devils.... We are at fault in not slaying them... Therefore, let everyone who can, smite, slay, and stab, secretly or openly, remembering that nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful, or devilish than a rebel. It is just as when one must kill a mad dog... Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews (Sermons on the Gospel of St. John,)"
And yes it was specifically because of biblical passages, such as those I posted, that Luther justified his hatred of and call for attacks against Jews:
"In Deuteronomy 13:12 Moses writes that any city that is given to idolatry shall be totally destroyed by fire, and nothing of it shall be preserved. If he were alive today, he would be the first to set fire to the synagogues and houses of the Jews.. let us follow the advice of Christ (Matthew 10:14) and shake the dust from our shoes, and say, "We are innocent of your blood."...we will believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is truthful when he declares of the Jews who did not accept but crucified him, "You are a brood of vipers and children of the devil [cf. Matt. 12:34]... "
And it goes on today. Bible following Christians ...
"I want to be invisible . . . I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag." -Ralph Reed, as Director of the Christian Coalition
"I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good . . . our goal is a Christian nation. We have the biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism..." -Randall Terry, Director of Operation Rescue
"Screw the Buddhists and kill the Muslims." -Henry Jordan, South Carolina board of education (when another board member said the displaying of the Ten Commandemtns in public schools might offend students of other religions)
And finally if you actually studied the Bible, from it's actual pretranslation wording, you would know that it does NOT say "love less". It very specifically says "HATE". Yours is the New Age attempts at revising the actual Word of God into a modern SECULAR acceptability.
God's Own Child:
You've shown yourself to be a troll with an agenda. You speak for yourself.
Thank you for standing up and speaking against the 'troll' even though the troll had to resort to the pios act afterwords when s/he'd been caught spreading hate.
Jesus himself was a jew. And Jesus himself did tell us to "love" (our neighbor) he didn't say, "only love your christian neighbors." Also he was the prince of peace.
Yet look at the evil words passed down through the thread. Not one of those would Jesus have done.
It's amazing to me how the teachings within the bible are ignored while the little quotes here or there are picked up and interpretated (usually in a way to promote hate/discrimination) and yet they're opposite what Jesus was trying to preach
Nice thread other than the meaness that came later and took the opportunity to spread hate instead of love.
Thread author: nice topic. And the 'trolls' comments are the exact reason why I carry God in my heart but refuse to join an organized religion--although I have been a part of organized religion in the past. But from my experience organized religion spreads single "group think", hate, and no compassion--the very things I believe the Jesus stood for.
Also, I struggled with the same thoughts you expressed about 1/2 the family being consigned to hell by the other half. What I decided I needed to do was to teach my children that as the bible says, "God loves all of us." And in fact we were all created by/from God and that we are all part of God. Yes, my children were baptised but I chose to tell them when my thoughts were different from that specific church. Frankly, if there were only one right way to get into Heaven (or Hell) there wouldn't be 1000 different denominations of churches.
So anyone who believes they have the one and only path is just guessing too.
Sorry to see that you have nothing factual nor of intrinsic value to the discussion to offer and prefer to resort to name calling instead.
Sorry that my "agenda" of promoting accurate presentation of the Bible is such a problem for a "Christian" such as yourself. There are those of us that feel that if this is the Perfect Word of the One True God, then people such as yourself should not be trying to change it in order to make it fit into your Secular warm fuzzy revisionist efforts. If you do not like what God tells you to do, stop pretending you do by trying to change what He actually had written down! If you do not like what is actually in the Bible, quit falsely claiming to follow it. We do not tamper with God's Word and expect to find personal salvation!
Let me just start with the fact that I couldn't help but laugh just by reading the title.
I often find myself inspecting various religious doctrines as well, and have talked to people studying many different religions to try and find one that suits me.
I find religion so complexely and primitively interesting all at the same time. They're all based on man's desperate attempt to define the unknown and decrease the entropy in his life. Personally, I find Christianity one of the most uncreative religions, but we won't get into that.
Thank you for your viewpoint. Sometimes people just don't realize how far they are taking religion, and incorporate it into very prejudiced and unfair statements.
A resource you might want to look into:
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church3.html#Apostolic
Jordan Stovall
IB Junior
www.progressiveu.org/blogs/chasing-bohemia
Finally a comment worth my time, thank you! Yeah I wanted a title that would make people read. I think we're on the same page completely. I'll definently check out your link.
IB kid huh? Where do you live?
How about first spelling "Catholicism" right?
Def an interesting read, Im a Catholic but I love learning so much about diff religions
If you're interested, I would suggest picking up a copy of Lee Strobel's "A Case for Faith" and reading chapter five (or six, can't remember).
In any Christian denomination besides Catholocism, you would be taught by Ephesians 2:8-9 that "For it is by grace you have been saved-through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast" (NIV). All it takes is faith, and not false faith based on the fact that you want to go to heaven.
In his book, Strobel (he's not some crazy Christian extremist-in his first book he was actually a skeptic trying to disprove Christianity, then ended up proving it) points out that heaven is actually unity with God, and hell is separation from him, which makes sense, as God is awesome and to be in his presence would be absolutely amazing, and by not believing at judgement, it would be tortuous, as the absence of God=the absence of love peace and grace
My best friend is Hindu, and apparantly they believe the same thing (she is also reading my Case for Faith book now), as their religion is based more on spirituality.
I just realized that you made this post a long time ago, but I hope you take the time to read this comment :)
Do you believe in a heaven then?
It may seem depressing to think that some loved ones may not meet us at heavens gates, but the bible says that once in heaven we will have no worries, therefore we wont be sad and it may be possible we wont remember those people at all.
Even though this may seem depressing to you is it better to hide from the truth and then you yourself be left out as well?
And besides, if you don't follow any set religion, then is there no afterlife? Isn't it more depressing to think that you have loved ones all your life and they and you one day will just completley dissapear?
I'm not trying to condem you. You seem like a resonable person who is just trying to make sense of everything. But, I believe that Jesus is the only way and if you are really intrested in learing about the diffrent religions then I would ask of you to consider Christianity which I'm sure you've had before, but when you do (and I really want to stress this point)
DO NOT believe what television or books or even churches say about Christianity. I'm not saying that all of these refrences are lying, but the world today is very corrupt and there are people, even in the churches, that decieve. If you want to know about Christianity read the bible and trust only the bible. I suggest the King James Version, since it was translated staight from the tounges and is not manipulated in anyway for any denomination, it is straight from God. And if you really are intrested in learning more I suggested reading it all. It may seem confusing, but God will make things clear for you. Just remember, only trust the bible because according to God it will always be true. I pray you fill the empty space you have, everyone has it and it can't be filled by anyone other than Jesus.
I'd just like to mention that Catholocism and Christianity are one in the same thing.. A Catholic is a Christian. Anyways..
I totally agree with you.. My entire family is religios. Both of my grandfathers were ministers of sorts. My mother and father went to a Christian college. All of my Aunts and Uncles are very religious. However, I don't like my parents are nearly as religious as their parents or family. My youngest brother follows the religion because it has been beat into his brain for years. My other brother has no idea what to think. I don't think they are capable of making their own decisions on religion. Then there's me.. basically an Atheist. I just avoid religious topics because I can't stand their "well God says" reasoning. I get sick of all the Christian talk I have to hear.. but I won't change my mind.
I think religion is nice as a thing to study. You know, like we study Greek or Roman myths. I like the cultural differences, like you said.
I really like this blog.
I also do not like to catagorize religion. Sometimes i hesitate to call myself a Christian because I do not believe everything in the Bible, ex.homosexuality, abortion, etc.
But then when I really think about it, to be a Christian, all you really have to believe is that there is one God, and Jesus came to earth, God's son, or God in human form, and died on the cross.
The Qu'ran doesn't say that you have to be muslim to go to paradise. Do more research before making assumptions.
I believe Jesus is the only way to get to Heaven. Yes, it saddens me if I have a friend who doesn't believe the same thing but all I can do is live my life as an example and hope that God does something in their life to get their heart in the right place. It's all I can do. I'm not going to shove the Bible down their throat every day. But yes it is unsettling when I think about it.
On the other hand I do try to educate myself about what other people believe. I don't block myself off from the rest of the world just because I'm a Christian. I have tolerance but there's a line between tolerance and being politically correct for the sake of it. I won't water down my beliefs just because it's "taboo." I have the right to believe what I want and the atheist down the street has the same exact right.