As many of you may know, a new planet about 5 times the Earth's mass has been discovered. It's about 25,000 light years away in the Milky Way and it's orbiting a red dwarf star. They say that the planet is very cold and probably doesn't contain life, but it's the closest thing to an Earth-like planet ever discovered. It is said that the planet is probably one big sheet of ice, which at least means that the planet is made up of a lot of water. And we all know that where there's water, there's life.
So, this brings me to the topic of this blog. If we were able to find life on another planet, what would that mean for Christianity? The bible doesn't talk about multiple planets. It specifically mentions the Earth in the creation story. We're pretty sure that Jesus walked the Earth not OGLE-2005-BLG-390Lb, which is the name of the new planet. I'm just curious abut what exactly would happen to a religion so centered on what happened here on Earth and a religion who has put all it's eggs in one basket (the bible).
I'm not sure, but I'd like to hear what you think about it.
Tabias-
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I'm a Christian and although I don't think the Bible denies life on another planet, I believe God created everything for us, so I don't personally believe life will be found or at least life forms like us intellectual life forms.
As far as the affect it may have would be pretty severe to some I think, but I will wait and see and deal with that if it comes.
It could be devastating to some. Those whose faith was not strong enough, I'm guessing. But there is a verse that points to the 'UNLIMITEDNESS' of GOD in in the New Testament:
John 14:1-3 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
John 14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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So, if there are many mansions in heaven there's a darn good chance there are many elsewhere.
And it's that faith that makes a True Christian hang on, even when he feels like being terrified. Because the One True Living GOD in unlimited, there is nothing he can't do. And to be able to believe him and see glimpses of him is to trust him even when you don't feel like it. That is true faith. That is the only thing that could hold a people together mentally and physically and alive in tough times and rise above the odds.
So in my long drawn out way, I say 'No'. It would not end Christianity. Only if all his people turn away from him would it end Christianity. And then I believe the world would not long last if that were to happen. In fact, faith might even spread if they found life. It could happen.
We're discovering life in all sorts of crazy places on our own planet. And we still struggle with whether or not other life forms on our planet are sentient. I guess it all comes down to whether or not life forms on other planets would have a soul. If they don't have a soul, then it wouldn't destroy Christianity. If they did have a soul, I guess we'd then have to decide whether or not Christianity is still validated. Being a Christian, I think it would be, but I'm a little biased.
I don't know much about Christianity. But I don't see how discovering life on another planet would destroy the religion. Is everything in the bible really definite? It seems like a textbook to me though because I'm not religious. Is there only bible that every Christian reads?
I thought religion and science are two different scopes anyway. Religion has no business in science and science has no business in religion...that's what my philosophy teachers always tell us whenever we try to prove his point wrong with science. lol
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According to Christianity, the bible is the word of God, so yes the bible is supposed to be definite. And being that the bible doesn't mention life elsewhere, many believe that if we do find life on another planet that Christianity would be dealt a very deep if not fatal blow.
For one, finding life an another planet would suggest that Jesus didn't walk amongst the life forms there, which to me is no different than here on Earth. What I mean by that is that Jesus didn't show up until about 2007 years ago and is said to have died around 34 C.E. Christianity didn't get started for a couple hundred years after that even. So in my opinion; to suggest that a religion that is 1500 years old at best is the "one true religion" is selling a lot of people short.
I always wonder what Christianity thinks about the millions of people who lived before Abraham ever came along and brought up the idea of monotheism. Did all those people not have a soul? Did they not have religion? Of course they did. They practiced Paganism and other forms of spirituality. Hinduism came before Christianity as well and is one of the largest of the five major world religions. Why should anyone believe that all those people are wrong and Christians are right? Makes no sense really. All religions should be equal. Christianity just happened to have a great salesman who finally sold the idea to the Romans and then the rest is history (bloody history).
Anyway, the bible specifically mentions the Earth in the creation story, not anywhere else. So finding life somewhere else would be something that the bible did not mention. And being that Christians put all their eggs in one basket (the bible), this could do a lot of damage.
I don't really think that the religion would be destroyed, but I do believe that many people may finally realize that Christianity is just another religion, not the one and only "true" religion with the one and only "true God".
Tabias-
Okay first of all, Christianity did not only start a few hundred years after Christ, the apostles were Christians regardless of whether or not they called them selves such, they followed Christ and his commands believed he was the sacrifice for our sins and believed he was the son of God.
Also Christians do not consider Christ to be the start of their faith but the promise of God from the Torah, the Torah is at least 3313 years old.
Christianity the religion officially became the state religion of Armenia in the year 301 and then spread through the Roman Empire, not being legalized until the year 313 by Emperor Constantine.
So no, Christianity did not start 3313 years ago (date you say the Torah dates back) and to say that the Torah is that old has nothing to do with Christianity. At best, you can only say that Christianity is 1,694 years old (my bad for saying 1500 years old).
The first official “denomination” if you will, of Christianity wasn’t established until 391 when Theodosius the First established Nicene Christianity, which was at the time the only legal religion in the Roman Empire. So that puts us at 1616 years ago. I'm very bad at math, but I believe I'm correct here. But please correct my math if I'm wrong.
And obviously you don't know that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. You can't say that Judaism and Christianity are the same, nor can you date Christianity back to the beginning of Judaism. They are totally separate. And if you don’t believe that; ask all the Christians and Jews who died by the hands of each other. If you want to claim that they’re the same then you must also except all the totally insane verses that come with the territory of the Old Testament. I'm really not even sure why Christianity still refers to the Old Testament at all. It only hurts Christianity to do so. Christians love to use the Old Testament when it’s convenient for them, but when the Old Testament is used against Christianity, then Christians say “well that’s Old Testament and that’s not what we follow”. You can’t have the cake and eat it too.
And yes, Christians do indeed consider Christ to be the “start of their faith”. That’s what the New Testament is all about. Without Jesus, the only thing left is Judaism and Jews.
You totally avoided and perverted my reply.
If you haven't learned, Christ was a Jew, he did bring a different view to some of the laws and such in the Torah, but if you want to bring up contradiction, there is plenty just in the Torah that if you are looking for it without consideration there are many things that contradict each other just in the Torah.
Christianity does have a tie to Judaism, according to Christians Judaism became Christianity after the prophecy of Jesus coming, some Jews did not accept Christ as the messiah and that resulted in the religion going further after Christ, but many realized that Christ was the prophecy from the Torah being fulfilled.
Whether or not it was recognized as a legal religion that long after Christ, is irrelevant to those who believe when Christ died on the cross and rose again he took our punishment.
If you want to say that Christianity was only recognized as a religion by state is fine but please correctly phrase it so you don't lead people to an incorrect assumption that it was only believed Christ was the son of God 300 years after his death.
Judaism came before Christianity. Therefore, Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, not the other way around.
That's when Christianity officially became a religion through the eyes of history. It was still a belief system before then.
The Torah was aimed at the Jews. Christianity is aimed at the Gentiles. Thus, the promise in the Torah wasn't given to the Christians. Christians can believe whatever they want... doesn't mean they're right in believing so.
~C
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Christians can believe what ever they want?!
the promise in the Torah was given to the people, of course it wasn't given to the Christians, you don't have Christians with out Christ.
So why if the Torah was Jewish doctrine, was there a prophecy to the gentiles?
There were no Christians when that prophecy was prophesied, The God of Abraham is the God of Jesus, the old testament is the Torah if we didn't believe in the old testament it wouldn't be apart of the Bible.
Anyone can believe what ever they want, that doesn't mean you're not fooling yourself.
Just because you decide something in your mind doesn't mean that it is the truth, and I'm fully aware of this myself.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see, or we'll just die and nothing will happen.
Christianity wasn't 'aimed' at the Gentiles.
it did include the Gentiles as well (as the first promise of Christ was given to Eve when Adam and Eve fell into sin), but Christ came to complete the law, for all, not just Gentiles.
Oh I sort of get it now. Christianity also has many branches within the religion, right? Don't different Christians are skeptical about each other's beliefs as well? Either way, many people are starting to realize that Christianity is just another religion. Maybe that's why there are more people who don't believe in any religion at all.
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What?! Where did you get your information?
First of all, there are many more people that believe in a God than not.
Second of all, this simple religion of Christianity just like all the rest, is the largest by far compared to any other, and is the fastest growing.
I don't mean to undermine your argument but Islam is the fastest growing religion especially in affluent societies. But I do believe that Christianity is the fastest growing religion in third world countries.
You beat me to it
If the shoe fits, its probably your size
Haha thank for your gentleness but I'm sorry I have to disagree, there have been quite a few studies that I know of and Christianity is and has been for a while the fastest growing worldwide.
Allot of Muslims try and say that Islam is the fastest but that's not the truth.
Yeah, they were studies by Christian groups in third world countries...wait to look it up! The studies that everyone is using is based off of UN studies, so they're unbiased. Hard to believe that Christianity is getting beat out by Islam, just like it did to other religions years ago...actually not really.
Are you ready for this? You Christians might want to sit down for this one. Percentage wise (not people), Wicca is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is said that if all the Wiccans actually "came out of the broom closet" that there's no telling how many there would be. Wicca is a very personal and solitary religion and most of us don't feel that we need to come out and tell the world who and what we are, but if we all did, you would be VERY surprised. I see more pentacles around people's necks now days than I do crosses. Something to think about. Not that we're going to take over or anything, but Christianity is on the downward slope.
And incase you haven't heard...Africa is the next Christendom target. Europe is pretty much tired of Christianity and Islam is growing very rapidly there, but Christians still see hope in Africa. I'm guessing that the same things that were done everywhere else will be done there and the people there will somehow be forced or tricked into converting to Christianity. And if you don't believe that...you tell me why the US government plans on opening up an African Command. I mean really....what do we need to have 5 major bases in Africa for? I'm in the military and I know this to be true.
Tabias-
You know honestly I did hear that Wicca is growing rapidly, I'm not sure who to believe or if I think it's relevant how fast a religion grows because it's called a fad.
I wrongfully replied in a way of making it seem as if because my faith is the largest that it makes it any more relevant, it's a personal relevance that matters regardless of it's size to me.
I don't have any problem with people believing something as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others in taking away their god given freedoms or as long as they don't hurt any one because of it, or regardless of it for that matter.
That being said, I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, I believe that by accepting Christ you know you're going to heaven and he shows us how to live our lives on earth.
Yes I agree that religions are fads; and you did include Christianity in that statement, right?
I do find it ironic when you said that you "don't have any problem with people believing something as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others in taking away their god given freedoms or as long as they don't hurt any one because of it, or regardless of it for that matter", especially when Christianity was and still is the number one religion when it comes to imposing or pushing beliefs on others. You should also ask the Pagans and Native Americans about having their "God given freedoms" taken away. They would agree with you as well with what you said above.
I really hate to talk bad about a religion that does indeed do a lot of good in the world. It's the proselytizing and the "our God is the One, the Only, and the Truth" that really gets to me. I do believe that the majority of Christians are good people and they help out a lot, but the things I just mentioned above is what will continues to give Christianity a bad name. People do not like to be approached in the mall about religion, nor do they like their dinner interrupted at home. With the internet and all the book stores out there today, believe me; if someone is interested in Christianity, they will and they can find it on their own. The Christian Empire is large enough that I’m pretty sure that they really don’t need to proselytize any more.
I'm not going to sit here and say that that Wicca or any other religion is any better or any worse than any another, but Wicca is a religion that doesn't proselytize at all and it's growing very rapidly. The same goes for Buddhism. Does anyone see a trend here? People actually make a choice to come to these religions. Most Wiccan groups don’t even want members until their 18 years old. This is because they don’t want to be pushing their beliefs on the children. Now of course we expose our children to certain aspects of the Wiccan path, but the choice is theirs once they reach adulthood on whether or not they want to pursue the Wiccan way of life.
Tabias-
I don't have any problem with people believing something as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others in taking away their god given freedoms or as long as they don't hurt any one because of it, or regardless of it for that matter.
I agree with Tabias about what you say being ironic, since Christianity is all about "spreading the word of God" and trying to convert people.
You, personally, may not do that, but that's what's encouraged in the Church and the Bible. It's also why Christianity has such a stigma with it. You know something is wrong when a Wiccan actually physically recoils from you when you say you're a Christian (yes, I had that happen when one time when I still considered myself a Christian).
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Yeah, I will definitely admit as Christians we're called to spread the news of Christ.
Sadly allot of us as Christians, being human, don't go about it the right way and sometimes totally ignore what Christ taught us to be in the first place and that is fishers of men.
That meaning to show by example the love of Christ and hope that others can be saved by that love.
I understand that with all these religions, there's the mind set of how can we trust any one or any belief to be the truth and I think it's a matter of personally searching it out.
Being the type of person I am, I would not do something or believe something with out looking into it my self and truly feeling it is the word of God.
But I will say, how do we learn things as people?
We're either shown or we have to find it, and if in your mind God is real, don't you think you would need to learn about him?
You know part of believing in Christ and realizing we need him and his sacrifice is admitting we're not perfect, we all sin and all fall short of his glory.
We as Christians need to respect people and love them regardless of what they believe, realizing they don't believe what we do, and hopefully one day God will do something in the hearts and they'll be saved.
You said:
"I understand that with all these religions, there's the mind set of how can we trust any one or any belief to be the truth"
It's not about the "truth". It's about having a personal connection with Deity (if you're religious). That's where Christianity fails. To Christians, it seems that it's like what someone said earlier; "my God's dick is bigger than yours", but this is not what religion or spirituality is supposed to be about. Forget about the truth. Nobody knows the truth. Unless you have died, seen what happens in the afterlife, and come back to tell about it, then you can't say for sure what the truth is. I don't care how "God inspired" the bible is or what have you. NOBODY knows the TRUTH! That is what I love about my path. We don't claim that our path is the "truth". Hell, we can make up stuff as we go as long as it doesn't hurt anyone and it in some way, shape or form helps us to be more spiritual.
Unfortunately, this line of thought will never go away for Christians. They will always think that they are the best and therefore they will always be at odds with others. The persecution of Christianity and other religions will never go away because of this. It's just like racism.
Tabias-
You're right, no one knows for sure that their religion is right. But most religions believe that they are right. Especially Christians, Jews, and Muslims. We're all really stubborn when it comes to our faith. So, of course different religions will always be at odds. If you don't believe that your religion is the right one, then why should you believe in it? I personally still have questions about what I believe but I'm working through them so I can be sure that what I say I believe is really what I believe.
But Christians and Muslims will both tell you you'll go to hell if you don't believe in their religion. Jews will tell you you'll get 'rewarded' in the afterlife as long as you're a good person, or that hell is just a manifestation of your own sins, or any number of things... they don't concentrate on what happens in the afterlife, but that seems to be all that Christians and Muslims think at times.
~C
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That's because it's an important integral part of what they believe. The afterlife is what they're trying to get to.
This is not True what is so ever. The Truth. If people new the truth concerning this then they would have a better understand of The Lord there God .If you belong to no Religion. And you Die do you go to Hell (No not at all. If you are Evil, and corrupted and do wicked yes then you will Go to HELL .What people do not under stand is this .if you be a Christian and you do not keep Gods Commandments .the chances are he will put you down there in Hell. People need to be careful not to Judge. Now if you belong not to a religion, and you choose to do Good in your life. You can not return to live with your father who is in Heaven in his Kingdom, he will place you were he wants to. And it will not be Hell. Hell is for the wicked only. Amen
That's only your interpretation of it. Others believe that only certain people are destined for heaven, and all others will go to hell. Still others believe that everyone who does not believe in god or Jesus or whoever, will go to hell.
~C
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It matters not what people believe. now dose it .(Truth is Truth I have already stated it.) and many say this just to scare people into joining there religion. Fear works .Some times to pervert one thought to believe there lies. Amen
You have it backwards man. The religions of Abraham are the only religions that used and continue to use scare tactics and fear to get people to join. When is the last time a Buddhist or a Wiccan knocked at your door trying to spread their word? Exactly!
Tabias-
Jews don't... or at least, orthodox Jews don't. In fact, rabbis are supposed to turn you away three times before they allow you to convert.
Instead, you have Christians that are out there preaching specifically to Jews. So it's not all Abrahamic religions, just the two newest.
~C
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If you don't believe that your religion is the right one, then why should you believe in it?
There's a difference between a religion being the right one for an individual and it being the only right one. Christianity and Islam, for example, claim to be the only right religion. That right there puts them at odds.
One thing I've learned while studying different religions is that the less "structured" religions tend to promote finding your own spiritual path, generally based on loose guidelines ("harm none, do what you will" for example, or having a god/dess or a pantheon of god/desses in the religion as a whole, but forming a relationship with only one or two, while still acknowledging the rest). Even the highly structured Asatru religion, which takes special care to preserve the old ways of the Norse people and their gods, does not claim to be right for everyone.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Let me just put this out there. I'm a Christian, so I believe that believing in Jesus is the only thing that can get you to Heaven. It's an extremely important part of Christianity. I realize that some religions focus on finding your own path and others admit that they aren't right for everyone or aren't the only way, Christianity is the opposite. Jesus said there's only one way to Heaven and He's it. I believe that. So, yes, that does put me at odds with a lot of people.
"If you don't believe that your religion is the right one, then why should you believe in it?"
Again, it's not about who's right or who’s wrong.
If you feel that there is a higher power, a Deity, God, or whatever it is that you want to call it; then the journey or path that you take should be the one that feels the best to you. If Christianity is that path, then be a Christian, if Wicca feels better to you, then take that path. The point here is that spirituality is a "personal" journey. It shouldn't matter which one is the most popular or if you were raised a certain way. If you want be Wiccan and your parents are Christian, then that "should" be just fine. Again, this is why I love Wicca so much. There is no guilt involved in the Wiccan faith. Whatever means of worship that makes you happy and spiritual is always accepted. We don't have anyone telling us what’s right or wrong. As long as we "harm none" then we can "do as we will". I'm not saying that Wicca is better than any other religion out there, but if other religions offered the same freedoms as Wicca, I truly believe that the world would be a better and "safer" place.
Tabias-
I wish I had worded that sentence better. You personally think that Wicca is right and I personally think that Christianity is right. If I don't believe it is right, I shouldn't believe it. I think the point I was trying to make is that you shouldn't believe anything that you don't think is right.
All your comments on Wicca have brought me to a question. Do you believe that there is right and wrong? And I don't mean just relatively but absolute. Any absolute right or wrongs?
It's not about being the best, or my God having more power or a bigger image.
I do believe in one God, therefore it has nothing to do with other Gods, I can't compare God to another God, if I only believe in one God.
You're in a way most certainly right about the fact that we cannot know the absolute truth of who God is, or even that he is.
It's a matter of faith, any one that believes in God and says otherwise is lying to you and them self.
It most certainly is a connection that draws me to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was the song of God and the God of the Bible, but not just by a conclusion, I have researched many other religions, beliefs, and evolution and nothing speaks to me in the way the scriptures do.
Th Bible is so many things in one, it is an instruction on how to live our lives the best way, it teaches us love and compassion, it shows us the mind of God in a sense.
But ultimately you cannot prove your faith to some one else, I think it's a personal matter and you have to test the waters to see what God does in your life and ultimately decide if you believe in him.
In the end though, we'll either die and nothing will happen, or we'll see what the truth really is, I believe God would never punish some one for not hearing his word, I believe he is a just God and his perfection is something that we try to define but cannot completely understand.
That doesn't really surprise me. Almost everyone I know is at least interested in Wicca and I know quite a few Wiccans myself.
I agree with your points. Most people in Europe want nothing to do with Christianity. Being a Christian, this pains my heart. I also realize that Africa is now the big target and has been for quite a while. If any kid dreams of being a missionary, they dream of going to Africa and doing great things for God. I know I did when I was little. I wasn't aware of the African Command, though. I guess I've been out of it lately. You would think there would have been some little blurb about it on AFN that I would have caught.
Most people in Europe want nothing to do with Christianity. Being a Christian, this pains my heart.
I think the issue most people have with Christianity is that the vast majority of people who consider themselves Christian push their faith on others because they interpret spreading the Word of God as "convert everyone." I think fewer people would be turned off if more Christians stopped trying to force their religion on others and embraced it as the spiritual walk with their God that it's supposed to be.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
And you're totally right about that. I used to be, and, sorry to say, still am that kind of Christian a lot of the time. I know it's something I'm working on. Jesus didn't shove His beliefs down anyone's throat and neither should I. For me, a lot of it is learning how to honestly answer questions and not get offensive or deffensive all the time.
*Cheer!* Now, we just need to get the other billion or so Christians to think that way and you might be able to turn your religion's reputation around. =)
Haha, Amen to that.
The difference is the frame of the studies.
one study is by birthrate (which tends to favor Islam), whereas the conversion rate favors Christianity.
however, there are countries which cannot report exacts, only estimate, such as Communist China.
I was going based off of what I've been told by just about everyone including missionaries to majorly Islamic parts of the world.
Me too. I've heard this same thing from a lot of Christians who have traveled the world. Although, it makes sense to me. First Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam. Everybody has their 15 minutes.
If the shoe fits, its probably your size
The reason Christianity is still the number one religion and the fastest growing in the world is because the rulers of the free world say so. Do you actually believe that Pres Bush would come out and say that Islam is the largest religion in the world or that Wicca (precentage wise) is the fastest growing? I don't think so.
Tabias-
You might also want to keep in mind that it came to be the largest through terror and siege during Constantine's rule. It's been passed down through generations since, because after a few generations of being forced into it, it became all they knew.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I hope you are not really saying that about Christianity!
Islam definitely has been pushed mainly into peoples lives whether through violence or cultural pressure.
I don't necessarily think that Islam is the reason for the violence of extremists, I would hope that any doctrine that suggested you hurt someone or kill someone for hateful or selfish reasons would not be something people would willingly agree with.
I cannot believe that our nation is coming to be more inclined to defend a religion which terrorists used as their reason for killing three thousand Americans, rather than defend the Faith that brought this country to existence and freedom.
Your faith didn't. The founders were primarily deists, we've had this discussion multiple times. Christianity has killed just as many people as Islam has, you guys just all play the victim now. Why was paganism almost wiped out? The Christians made them turn to Christianity or be killed because the Christian God had a bigger dick than the pagan's God.
That phrase,"Islam definitely has been pushed mainly into peoples lives whether through violence or cultural pressure." Can easily be substituted to say this and still be true, "Christianity definitely has been pushed mainly into peoples lives whether through violence or cultural pressure." Around most of the world however it is mostly cultural pressure nowadays.
To show evil violent people mass killing in the name of Christ, you have to go back around 700 years.
To show evil violent people mass killing in the name of Allah, you have to go to... well... yesterday.
Keeping that in mind, one cannot say that Christianity was thrust upon them by force... ESPECIALLY not in the United States.... a country in which Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wise men were taken out of a Nativity Scene by court order, leaving some animals in a stall to mark the 'winter holiday period' . . .
There are numerous examples of mass-murder by religously motivated and ideologically christian groups in modern times. Some good examples are the Lord's Resistance Army (formerly known as the Uganda Peoples' Democratic Christian Army), the National Liberation Front of Tripura, various Nagaland rebel groups are all current examples of active and extremely violent christian extremist groups. The NLFT is a particularly good example, since the government of Tripura discovered a direct link between their forced conversion activities and other violent acts, and the Baptist Church of Tripura (LINK).
We can also go back into relative recent history and find plenty of other examples, such as the massacre of more than a hundred thousand non-christians in Rwanda back in the early nineties (which resulted in the conviction of several catholic priests and nuns of genocide), the catholic-run extermination camp of Jasenovac which killed tens of thousands during WWII, the Vietnamese "Soldiers of Christ" who detained, tortured and executed more than 80,000 buddhists.
Also, just because christian extremism has been relatively restrained in the U.S. due to our aggressive prosecution of religiously motivated violence, doesn't mean that we haven't seen plenty of small-scale examples of ideologically christian-motivated violence, even here. The Army of God and the Christian Identity Movement have been behind the assasination of abortion doctors, the bombings of the federal building in Oklahoma, as well as the attacks on numerous abortion clinics and gay bars are excellect examples of violent attacks by christian extremists, which are no less troublesome despite their relatively small death tolls.
The idea that Islam is the ONLY religion that breeds violent extremism is a fallacy, though I grant they do certainly seem to have perfected the tactics of modern terrorism.
percivale
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"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
And, when people kill in the name of Christ, what is the response by the Christian churches?
Calls that they are wrong. that they do not follow the teachings of Christ.
Just because someone SAYS they're doing something as a christian, or even use the name christian, it doesn't make it so.
Going to McDonalds does not make you a hamburger.... Saying you're killing in the name of Christ does not make it christian.
And, when people kill in the name of Christ, what is the response by the Christian churches?
The Islamic temples do the same thing. They don't condone what the extremists do.
You're starting to villainize an entire religious group based on the actions of extremists.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Recent studies in those areas paint a different picture.
I'm not vilifying anyone. I think that most are NOT of that type, but too many condone such behavior.
Also, note that some misuse, purposely, the name of Christ to sully christianity and line their own pockets.
Fred Phelps and his 'church' come to mind.
Then there are the various cults that use the name of Christianity to trick people into joining, like david koresh and his group. (and Jamestown, for that matter)
Then who's to say people like bin Laden and other terrorists aren't using the primary religion of the area as an excuse to do such things? For the US, it's Christianity, for the Middle East it's Islam or Judaism, and so on.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Aside from the fact that this evasion doesn't change for one second the fact that your previous statement was flatly false, are you really so uniformed as to think that the mainstream islamic churches aren't condemning these extremists? For example
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism
That argument is a sword that cuts both ways, my friend, and it is one that many mainstream muslims use when defending themselves from being associated with islamist extremists.
Historically speaking, christianity seems just as prone to violence as islam, and that includes recent history. If being held to the same standard that you impose upon others makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you should reconsider the basis for your opinion.
percivale
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"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
Thank you.
I hope you are not really saying that about Christianity!
What? Don't like the idea that your religion has a bloody history?
Whether you like it or not, it's true.
Christmas? Originally a Pagan winter holiday designed to break up the dreariness of winter and celebrate the lengthening days that meant spring was on its way.
Easter? Spring Equinox. Again, another Pagan celebration that was "taken over" by Christianity.
They did it because they wanted to get rid of the Pagan religions and make new meanings for the holidays the Pagans celebrated, since the Constantine empire basically told everyone convert or die.
I never said Islam didn't have it's own bloody history, I was simply responding to someone's statement that Christianity was the largest religion in the world. It's the largest because everyone under Constantine's rule was forced into it or killed.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I understand that there have been people in history that have forced it upon others but it's not still going on, or atleast that I know of.
I meant to say that Christianity is not the largest because of violence, because of something that happened hundreds or thousands of years ago.
Poeple can do the certain acts in the name of any religion or group and not be following the doctrine, I realize this with Islam too, that's something that I'm going to have to look into more.
And yet some Christians decide to not celebrate Halloween because of its origins. But they would never give up Christmas or Easter. Ironic.
I don't know the origins for why Christians stopped celebrating Halloween (since it's technically All Hallow's Eve, the eve of All Saints Day, but that might be a sect thing), but I know the tapes that the church I went to in high school would go on about how witches and Satanists would sacrifice human children around then and would dress up for it and that's why people dress up now. It was all a load of bull (especially since no modern religion condones human sacrifice except the extremists, but that could be any religion), but they saw it as truth.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
"I cannot believe that our nation is coming to be more inclined to defend a religion which terrorists used as their reason for killing three thousand Americans, rather than defend the Faith that brought this country to existence and freedom."
You call them terrorists and they call us terrorists. I'm not defending what happened on 9/11 at all, but we've (USA) had our nose so far up the Middle East's ass for so long; no wonder they hate us so much.
And if you want to say that Islam is a religion of terrorists, then please read some of the bible first. Christianity "was" probably one of the most brutal religions ever. The Christian God demanded that entire cities be destroyed because he didn't like what was going on there. I'm sure that by the standards of bible, the entire world as we know it should have been destroyed 10 times over by now. Christianity wants people to feel so sorry for them for the persecution that they had to deal with at the hands of the Roman Empire in the early stages, but then once Christianity gained enough power, they did the same thing, except on a much larger scale.
Tabias-
Yeah I understand what you're saying.
I don't necessarily think Islam is a violent religion, although I have heard it's in their doctrine, whether or not that's true I'll have to research.
I think Osama was doing something out of hate, and I cannot say what created that in him, that being Islam or just simple evil, I don't know.
I think that to be the same reasons others have killed in the name of Christianity or any other religion or group for that matter.
I believe the people that do those things are confused, are filled with hate and are taking Gods job into their own hands, and I don't agree with it.
I think you should look at things for yourselves and never completely judge something simply by others, sometimes of course that sadly is the only option we have.
I do think that if you read the new testament you will see that Christ calls us to peace and to help each other, not to kill each other.
I believe we have every right to defend ourselves from people that don't agree and want to take that freedom from us.
The fact that God destroyed cites like Sodom and Gomorrah, was for a couple reasons, one being that they were a severely sinful place that perverted everything and violated innocent people by bringing them in and engaging them in sexual immorality like rape and such things.
Two I think God has every right to decide what is good and not for his creation, and if people are perverting others than he has every right to stop that, being God.
I agree that God doesn't like the standards of the world today, and that's why he sent Christ, for all that believe in him, accept him and live for him will not perish but have ever lasting life.
It also says in the Bible, those that sin with out the law, will be judged with out the law.
Those that know the law and deny it, deny justice.
I live in Germany and I find it kind of funny that Constantine really used violent means to spread Christianity. It's not that that I find funny, but the fact that in Trier this summer, it was basically like a celebration of Constantine's reign.
And your totally right. People were forced into Christianity. But then again, a lot of people today choose to believe it. The pendulum swings both ways.
But then again, a lot of people today choose to believe it.
I think part of that has to do with how they were raised, but that's a different matter altogether.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
That's true for some people not all. For me, I've grown up in the church and it has influenced how I believed when I was younger. But now I've chosen to believe it for myself. I also know people who grew up without the influence of the church and later in life chose to believe in Christ.
Question for you, then. Did you do research on other religions? I'm talking using legitimate, nonbiased sites or sites specifically for the promotion of those religions (a lot of Christian sites will vilify other religions, especially the Pagan/Neo-Pagan ones, I hate to say).
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Yes, I did study other religions. Other religions have always interested me and I spent some time searching out what I really believed. I've read lots of different religious texts like the Bible and the Quran. I've asked people of different religions what their beliefs are, what the fundamentals of their religions are, and what their religion has done for them. I still research other religions and plan on taking classes in comparative religion when I get to college.