Genesis 2 is really a piece of work. It contradicts the first chapter on several points.First of all, it does contradict Genesis 1 on a lot of points, especially concerning chronology. And, it has a few little problems of it's own.
Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- the LORD God formed the man The Hebrew for man (adam) sounds like and may be related to the Hebrew for ground (adamah) it is also the name Adam (see Gen. 2:20). from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [h] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman,'
for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
My Commentary
God finishes his job. So, being tuckered out on the seventh day, he makes it a day of rest and declares it to be holy. Of course, what the day actually is isn’t exactly certain. Jews- Saturday, Christians- Sunday. Muslims- No clue. Wouldn’t mind being told though.
OK, moving on. Starting with verse four.
We have the Earth being barren even though god already created plants and stuff. We makes a mist. Plants spring up across the world. Then, god makes man out of dust. Even if this is supposed to come before the whole day of rest, it is still skipping a whole bunch of the animal kingdom that were created first in Chapter 1 as well as shifting around the days that other stuff was created. If it is after the day of rest, then god created plants and man after the day of rest.
Alright, then god makes the Garden of Eden in a place described somewhat specifically. Funny how we can’t find any trace of it today. In chapter one, there is a description that implies that god makes this on the sixth day, after he made man and woman.
He also makes the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and sticks it right in the middle of the garden with all the tress that Adam can eat from. He tells Adam not to eat from the tree.
Then god makes all the foul and land dwellers and brings them to the man. The man names all of them, but does not find a companion. You would think that god could have figured out that that sort of thing would happen.
So, when this happens, god knocks Adam out and, while he’s sleeping, he steals one of his ribs, and, probably because there probably wasn’t an active market for that sort of thing at the time, he decided to use it to create woman.
Here’s the big problem. In Chapter one, it says, “27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them”. Now, after that, it seems like god is making the Garden of Eden for them. In this version, god creates everything. Then he creates man. After that, he makes the Garden of Eden and sticks man there. Then, there’s a whole big production with naming all the birds and land dwellers, god makes woman.
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Out of Curiosity, when do we see you go line by line through other religious books to 'debunk' them?
Why not start with the Koran?
I'm starting with the Torah (OT) for one reason. It is the oldest of the holy books of the three Abrahamic religions. (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) It is also the source of the creationist view point.
You'll see me look at others when I'm finished with this one. In other words, never, probably. I will either become busy or get to the long boring parts of the Old Testament about taxes and then stop. But, if I get through this, and then the New Testament (Chronology and all that jazz), I'll do the Koran. Just, don't hold your breath.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
oh, I don't plan on holding my breath to see you pick apart the Koran.
unlike christianity, they don't mess around with 'debate' when someone insults their religion. For reference, look up "Danish Cartoons" and "Mohammad" . .
I don't see why you expect me to jump from Genesis to the Koran. Especially since I have, in previous posts, explained my intent. I think that would be pretty clear even without reading those.
You've got yourself in a bad spot with that cartoon reference. You either seem like you support the reaction or that you are blaming all Muslims for it.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
I don't support the death threats put towards the the publishers and creators of the cartoons. In fact, I think those that made those threats need to be found and severely punished.
I just find it interesting that people have a reverence for Islam but have no problem poking fun at Christianity.
I don't think it is right to make fun of any religious person. As for making fun of any religion, fine, as long as you don't cross the line. Even if you do cross the line, I'm not going to punish you, I'm just going to not like the joke. If you continually do that sort of thing, I would probably just really not like you.
However, there is a difference between making fun of a religion and examining a religion critically. If, as asmaw says she will, she posts translations of the Koran, I will not refrain from doing the same sort of thing I am doing here with the Bible.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
I look forward to you picking apart the Koran with the same passion as the Bible.
DA VINCI CODE and the views of the Church on that
and you making a point on Danish cartoons is BULL SHIT in my opinion
because all you understand is what you are fed from your news media and the images and ideas that you see and are told
these are so violently prejudice and biased/racist. and uneducated even though they are coming from "educated" people
I PITY how you came about to hold these views
and just for the sake of the argument if i actually posted some kind of ridiculous anti-christian blog saying Jesus was a gay man afraid of comitment to any woman and lacking sexual drive, i wonder how people on this site would react
point to be noted is that i have the deepest respect and admiration for Hazrat Eesa as Jesus is known to most Muslims
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
well, people do call Jesus gay. people have made 'art' of a cross in a jar of urine, or a picture of Mary covered in feces.
We complain. We don't issue death threats.
Like death threats that led to the death of Theo Van Gogh. (killed for his works which shed light on violence by the islamic terrorists)
Like death threats against Ayaan Hirsi Ali (one of those threats came from Imam Fouad ElBayly, of a mosque in Pittsburgh, PA) who left the Islamic religion and has been in hiding for fear of her life.
Like death threats against Oriana Fallaci (who died of cancer not too long ago) who often took stances against Islamic violence.
someone makes fun of a christian, or rips into christians and we just disagree with them. Before you jab me too hard perhaps you should look at those among your religion and make a few corrections.
Your initial statement as well as this one basically takes the stance that all muslims are evil and do this sort of thing. I still hope that this is not a stance that you intend to take.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
Uh.... nope. I don't basically take the stance that all muslims are evil, and I don't even remotely take the stance that all muslims are evil. I DO think, however, that you are trying to insert feelings into my statements out of some sort of assumptions of Christians.
There are those within Islam that are VERY violent, and they exist in far too many nations... Unfortunately the majority of muslims are also far too silent in the condemnation of these radical muslims.
I think that ignoring these radical ones only gives them credibility in their own mind, and gives a negative view that they are, at least indirectly, supported by the community as a whole.
You hear stories in the past about 'christians' bombing clinics and such, and those people were quickly condemned by the christians. Loudly as well. Many go so far as to say that they were NOT christians. I am in this group.
The way that you wrote was very accusatory of Islam in general. It may not have been intentional, but it did come across that way. As for muslims not condemming the actions of their violent population, they have. We just don't have much access to that. I have a lot of Muslim friends. All of them have been very much against that sort of behavior.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
as do I. however, there is overall silence.
Many are afraid to speak out against these Imams that support such violence, even some here in the United states (as I previously mentioned in Pittsburgh) that support such violence.
I do not condemn all of islam for their actions and would suggest that those who say I do are reading things into what I write based on their apparent assumptions of me.
I accept the explanation. There are just some combinations of words that convey certain tones. It just seemed sort of contemptuous. I think that's what it was.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
jsaj might accept but I have met far too many hypocrites like you
and so I don't have to accept your contention that you don't consider all of Islam violent or all Muslims are violent freedom hating suicide bombers/threat giving sons of bitches (yes- i'm adding the curse words- that's what people threw at me after 9/11)
you won't ever understand about muslims- you've already judged them based n what you have been told- you don't personally even know the facts and you trust what you hear on your fucking newspapers and prejudiced Muslim hating media
(i'm using these words because I have never called all Christians as extremist evangelicals, holding the same beleifs as Jerry Lewis or Bill O'reily who think that all Muslims should be annihilated)
No- im above that sort of bull shit but how you commented until jsaj cleared it all out for you and put it in black and white for you how your sentiments exactly come off are exactly those of an individual who has already formed the image of all Muslims as violent radicals who will kill any and all innocent people and or dumb and deaf Muslims who don't stand up against the minority that is giving them a bad name
Ah- i've come across people like you on youtube who comment with hate filled language and assume to know everything and anything on this topic
WHAT do you know?
What have you read? where are you getting your information from???
Do you REALLY know a Muslim and what kind of a Muslim is he/she that you can still say that we don't stand up against the violent elements in Islam
Those that don't stand up are in Iran or Saudi Arabia where the most extreme interpretations of Islam are the rule of the land
THey are a theocracy of Islamic law called Sharia and for your additional information
Muslims in other nations will now never stand up against the violent radicals because they think that those people blowing themselves are justified because what they ask is:
freedom in Palestine's case
they want USA out of SArabia
they want USA to leave Iraq alone (they were against the War but who the fuck cared that USA govt lied and cheated to get there and completely ruined one of the most historical and religious lands of Islam but you know never mind as long as Israel is safe)
they hate the fact that USA is on speed dial to help Israel along with anything and everything-Lebanon anyone and most recently SYRIA
What the fuck do you want Muslims in other nations to do for you?
People here expect PAkistanis to find OSAMA?
LIKE who the hell are we to do your dirty job?
You don't even have any idea how many Pakistani soldiers have been killed trying to do the American's job of finding Osama and his posse
what do you say about us? HANH?
that we don't stand up against the Muslim radical extremists? why should we?
what reasons can you give me for us to do that?
and don't get started on the Imam bullshit
I'll bring up the number of innocent victims that the USA has illegaly kept in secret prisons all over the world aaginst International law
they haven't even been given trials-just put in prisons and their families don't even know where they are or what happened to them---if they're dead or alive
Who is the victim and who is the Culprit
It's ALL about PERSPECTIVE
LOOK at it through someone else's eyes and views
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
I do agree with your sentiments. However, I really don't think that this person thinks that of the Muslim society, at least not consciously. As for the unconscious mind, that is harder to control and the true subconscious thoughts might not even be known. Pending further statements, I'm willing to accept the explanation, but warily.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
Asmaw I'm sorry people are treating you that way, I'm a Christian and I look at you as a person.
I feel bad that people are blaming all Muslims for what one radical person did in the name of religion.
I have Friends that are raised in Muslim familys and I know how hard it is because I see how they feel.
I blame the people at hand for the crimes they commited and I'm sorry that people have been acting that way to you out of anger.
You did come off as if you think every Muslim is evil.
I'm not sure the problem is you in particular, though. I think you just happen to represent what a lot of people in the United States thinks of other religions, particularly Islam. We thought the same of the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, and Communism/Communist Russia and China during the Cold War.
When it comes to cultures that are vastly different from our own, we're quite sheltered, really. Sure, schools try to teach about them, but how much of that really sticks when you see on the news all the time about some Middle Eastern person trying to take a jeep full of explosives into a US military camp or how so-and-so Muslim keeps announcing that he's been sent to bring about the Muslim version of the Apocalypse?
And just to clarify that Christianity isn't any different from any other religion in the case of extremists. Don't forget about Pastor Phelps and his family of psychos at the Westboro Baptist Church...
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
i would have to leave the debunking part to other people
or something but i really don't have time right now, but i will start soon
ah-with the first surrah but I am fasting this month until october 13 of next month
i'm making excuses, quite frankly i have a migraine and don't like discussing religion much but if people want to know then i'm willing to give it a chance
you all are hoping to find some real controversial stuff- but it's slow too and boring at times and redundant (very much)
i haven't even read the whole book's translations just of the most important surrahs and the concepts
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
A good writer should always consider his or her audience, and here at ProU, we very rarely see any pro-religion blogs written from anything other than a christian point-of-view. Yes, there are a few jews and muslims on this site, and even a few neo-pagans, and I am sure that if we pobed closely we could probably flush out a buddhist or two. But the vast majority of ProU's pro-religious bloggers are christian. And, even if we extend our consideration to the American public at large, it would be difficult to argue that the relevance of any non-christian religion even remotely compares to the impact that the beliefs of the roughly 3/4 of our population that are at least nominally christian.
Personally, I am quite capable of in-depth ranting about a great many of the world's religions. I can quote the Qu'ran almost as well as I can quote the bible, and I could write a novel about how wiccans are just as crazy as christians. The rebuttal of christian positions is more prevalent because those positions are more prevalent on this website, and in most of our personal lives.
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
So be because there are more Christians than any other faith, you try to prove what they believe wrong?
...seems to be a bit shallow. Why would a debater address a rebuttal to someone who does not hold the opinion that he or she is trying to rebuke? It would be a waste of time, don't you think? If there was someone here defending the idiocies of other religions, then there would be a reason to respond to them. But in the absence of those comments, and of the people who defend them, what would be the point?
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
The problem with commentary like this, is that those who believe that Bible to be inerrant aren't going to change their views no matter how many times you point out the inconsistencies present in much of the text (far more than just in Genesis).
Putting the hopelessness of the exercise aside...Good job on researching this. Alot of people don't take the time to look indepth into the passages of the Bible. And its always nice to be able to quote Bible verses back at the bible-beaters.
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Bright. Gay. Gun Owner. You want to make something of it?
you bastard..... you create a blog dilberately for the sake of pointing out another's flaws. What's the point? No one who even has a heart in their belief will believe you or any sense of your credibility. It's kinda retarded, you constantly try to pull down a significant belief of others..... and yet you leave so many stand by, wtf? Why does Christianity and Judism appeal so much to you that you seek to push it into the abyss with your thoughts and "intellect"....kinda pointless. I respond, because I'm tired of finding your opinion every where where people hold their views strongly. give it a rest and find a new hobbie....gosh sigh.....over it
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An Angel says hello as I say Good bye, hoping nothing may be sighed.
about, don't read his blogs if they upset you so much
but you can't say to him give it a rest and find a new hobby, that's not your place
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
" "love em all,trust a few,and fear none"....thats wassup.one love. peace." mos def
So you wouldn't have a problem if people on here started to use there idea of what something should be to point at all the flaws in your religion?
...then mount an intellectual defense of the opposing position. If you cannot do this, then perhaps you should consider the possibility that your opponents have the right of it.
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
Perhaps you should wait a little more than two days after joining before getting offended? He has been on a bit of a posting spree lately...
Also, if you're so offended, like Perci said, mount an intellectual argument for it. J and a couple others argue with me all the time, even if they agree, because I back my views up intelligently.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you're so damn offended by what I have to say DON'T FUCKING READ IT!
There are people who profess (and I have no reason to doubt) religious belief who have read and enjoyed, or at least found interesting, what I have to say.
If you are so easily offended by people proposing a different view point I suggest you go live on another planet. I have every right to be open about my lack of religious beliefs. I have every right to post that here and explain why.
If you're not happy about that, then go do something I'd violate the terms of service if I told you to do it.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
I personally think the reasons you don't attack muslims is because they're in the fight against Christians, I think it is Christianity you seem to have a problem with, for what ever reasons those may be.
If not why don't you start trying to prove muslims wrong, that shouldn't be a hard task.
Jews are in a fight against Muslims... seeing as how the leader of a Muslim country wants them destroyed and all. Jsaj is looking at the same content that makes up their core beliefs as well. They're just such a minority that people generally don't think of them right out.
~C
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I didn't mean an actual violent fight.
I meant fight of faith.
I get you're point though, they're not much of a threat.
If I get through the old and new testamens, which is unlikely, I'll move on to the Koran. As for now, I don't say much about Islam because I don't know much.
The main reason I started wih the OT is because it came first and at leasts parts of it are the basis for Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil