It seems today that Christianity is being silenced more than ever. God has become a curse word and prayer is grounds for expulsion. The 10 Commandments are no longer a set of moral standards set in place by God; but a target for political attacks. How is it that the "Nation Under God" has become the "Nation Gone Under"?
There has recently been many political uproars about various Christian symbols such as the 10 Commandments in the Supreme Court, as well as the cross that hangs in the Mojave Desert to honor the soldiers of WWI. The ACLU plays a major role in spearheading both objects. They have so far successfully sued to have the Cross removed from the Mojave Desert but have not been successful in having the 10 Commandments taken down.
I'm sure that there will be many more intense battles over Christianity to come. The sad thing is that the repercussions will be devastating once God is completely shut out of this country...
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I'm a Christian and I don't see the need to have the ten commandments in public places. That is not going to change whether a person decides to stick to the rules or not. My church talks about stuff like that all the time and it gets on my nerves. Why don't we just stick to helping each other out instead of fighting whether "God" is still on our money or in the Pledge of Allegiance?
But I'm not too happy with the ACLU anymore.
You are so true. As you said once they shut God out for good is when the problem starts. The only thing really to do about it is start small. I mean if we reach out to others and try to show them the way, then aren't we doing our part as Christians? We are called to show others the right way to go and be sure that they know what it takes to go to heaven and live a lonf and happy life down here on earth. It really all comes down to what we know and how we use it rather than judging others.
" So many times we are so focused on the closed door, that we often miss out on the door that's open in front of us." Helen Keller
I kind of agree with danishasays's comment, it's what's in our hearts that really matters, I mean yes I think that these kind of things happening are a show of how serious a threat Christianity is in the world, if it wasn't, people wouldn't care about things like that.
And I do think Christianity is under attack it really always has been, but at one point it looks like there are less Christians, at another it is so evident that there are more Christians today.
I believe certain things are going to happen whether we like it or not, God has a plan, we can't hold on to these monuments to stand for our faith, because when they fall, our faith will probably fall with them.
It's what's in our hearts that matters, whether or not we're the majority or the minority, you have to stand for what you believe is right regardless of how many are willing to stand with you.
Don't let physical monuments become your stand, let your life for Christ be your stand.
"God has a plan, we can't hold on to these monuments to stand for our faith, because when they fall, our faith will probably fall with them."
That was beautiful and eloquent. Props to you.
I really hope God is shut out of every country. Way too much shit goes down because of religion.
If a sacred symbol or text of a religion other than Christianity were spread through public and placed in government buildings.
Satanism?? Paganism?? Wiccan?? etc etc
and since when are people being expelled for prayer??
I pray for the day when God IS shut out of the country. We might actually be functional then.
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It Changes
I Dance Naked Around A Tree At Midnight
"I've already been to Heaven, and after 5 minutes I was like 'let's go!'"
> It seems today that Christianity is
> being silenced more than ever.
Is it really? I mean, here you are right now, talking about chirstianity, and no one seems to be trying to silence you.
> God has become a curse word
> and prayer is grounds for expulsion.
Well, I can't help you with the curse word business. Languages are organic, and free speech means you pretty much have to just suck it up and deal with the fact that a word that has a holy connotation for you, might very well seem profane to those who don't share in your beliefs.
But as for your second allegation, can you provide us with an example where any student in this country has been expelled from a public school just for praying? If you can actually find one, I will be the first in line to join in any protest you might wish to organize, but I suspect that in any case you find, there will be something more to the story.
> The 10 Commandments are no
> longer a set of moral standards
> set in place by God; but a target
> for political attacks. How is it that
> the "Nation Under God" has
> become the "Nation Gone Under"?
The idea that the 10 commandments come from a "god" is a purely religious (and frankly rather silly) belief. But, people have a right to believe in silly things if they want. However, they don't have a right to use the government as platform to spread their religion, and it isn't "silencing" you to say "hey, our laws say that its illegal to use the government as a support structure for your religion." As Thomas Jefferson himself once said, "Finally, in answer to [the] question why the ten commandments should not now be a part of the common law of England? We may say they are not because they never were..."
I mean, telling you that you can't use the police power of the government to establish a preference for your religion isn't "silencing" you. It is just requiring that you follow the laws and principles set forth in our Constitution. Being in the religious majority doesn't give you the right to usurp the rights of other citizens who may not share in your beliefs.
> There has recently been many political
> uproars about various Christian symbols
> such as the 10 Commandments in the
> Supreme Court,
This is an urban myth. The 10 Commandments do not appear on either the doors or the frescoes in the Supreme Court.
> as well as the cross that hangs in the
> Mojave Desert to honor the soldiers
> of WWI. The ACLU plays a major role
> in spearheading both objects. They
> have so far successfully sued to have
> the Cross removed from the Mojave
> Desert
Well, it was a pretty obvious that this cross represented an unlawful establishment of religion. I invite everyone to actually read the two decisions relating to this case.
Bruno v. Norton
...and...
Buono v. Kempthorne
> but have not been successful in
> having the 10 Commandments
> taken down.
Actually, the ACLU has been very successful in having these religious pronouncements removed in a great many cases, though I admit that the Supreme Court has been fairly wishy-washy about the 10 commandments issue. There are currently two primary standing precedents that clearly establish that it is unconsitutional to put the 10 commandments in courtrooms (McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky) though it is possible to permit their display on government property if there is a legitimate secular purpose for doing so (Van Orden v. Perry .
> I'm sure that there will be many more
> intense battles over Christianity to come.
> The sad thing is that the repercussions
> will be devastating once God is
> completely shut out of this country...
There would probably be a lot fewer battles if some of the christians in this country could accept the fact that the government isn't an appropriate venue for religious worship. Many of our founders were christian, and they didn't seem to have a problem with the concept, so it is difficult to understand why so many christians can't seem to wrap their minds around the idea of church and state separation. In the words of another prominent founding father...
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." ~ Benjamin Franklin
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
a separation of religion and government (church and state)
SO WHY is it that I increasingly feel like if one is not Christian they should get the hell out of the US. I am sorry but I hold US to a really high standard and respect because it is a country open to so many and home to many different people
..........But these days I feel like some people are completely ruining the reputation of the US as a freedom loving and open country-- We should be tolerant of all religions and symbols of Christain faith should not be used in certain public places, that is WRONG
i mean i like free speech and all but isn't this act of putting a cross and ten commandment sort of showing that this country is ONLY Christian followers and Christian faith?
"Things have a life of their own. It's just a matter of waking up their souls."
--Gabriel García Márquez
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
This country was founded upon Christian principles. All of the signers of the Declaration of Independence except 2 I believe were Christians. And they all made it very clear that the nation should continue to follow God and all of them sought His guidance in order to keep the nation strong and successful. America is called the "Nation Under God" for a reason... this country was established to allow people to worship God freely. And no they didn't mean any god, they meant the One True God. The pilgrims came to this land because they were being persecuted for not conforming to everyone else's false view of religion.
So no its not a matter of free speech... it's a matter of abandoning the foundation of our country and turning away from the God who has blessed us more than we could ever imagine.
I'm surprised percivale hasn't jumped on this yet, but I'll try my best to educate you.
The founding fathers did not want the government and religion to be mixed. That was one of the main problems they had with England. "Under God" was not added to the pledge until the 1960's, I believe, and "In God We Trust" was not put on money until the LATE 1800's. That puts you around 100 years after the founding and after all of the founding fathers were dead.
This country was established not to worship God, but to be completely independent of God, and let you worship in the privacy of your own home and church.
~C
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pecivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
This is getting on my nerves. Wanting church and state separated doesn't make heathens of the founding fathers. You can have faith and not want it part of government. That's the main problem with the world today! Almost all of the conflicts around the world today has to do with religion. People need to worship at home and people need to stop pimping Jesus to make them seem better.
And yes, I'm a Christian. But pretty soon I'm going to stop saying that.
...that this country was "founded on Christian principles?"
While it is true that most of the men who signed the Declaration of Independence were at least nominally christian, at least three of the five men involved in writing that document (Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamen Franklin) were desits rather than christian.
Many people seem to forget that the ORIGINAL motto of the United States was not "In God We Trust," but rather "E Pluribus Unum," which translates from the Latin as "One from Many" or "Out of Many, One." This motto served us well for the great majority of our history, until it was CHANGED at the urging of religious activists in 1956.
Our founders were quite aware of the religious diversity that already existed in Colonial American, which we can see in the words of Thomas Jefferson, speaking in his autobiography about the Virginia Act of Religious Freedom (which was the model upon which the First Amendment was based)...
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. ~ Thomas Jefferson.
And next I will point to the Treaty of Tripoli, written during the Second Term of the Presidency of George Washington, passed unanimously by a Senate that contained many of the original Founding Fathers, and which was signed into Law by John Adams during his First Term as the Second President of the United States. It says, in Article 11...
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion... (LINK)
I think that pretty much sums it up.
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
you always back up your arguments and make a clear point to break down the opposition's views using facts and information....
while I am just fed up with people constantly preaching that this country is "Christian principles" and for those of the Christian faith (somehow that's what I glean)
there should just be a page that you should post all your factual information and then give the link to all the non believers (hmm, might not work but ...worth trying)
"The good life, let's go on a living spree
Shit they say the best things in life are free" --*K A N Y E
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
...about doing just that. :)
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
So exactly what "Nation Under God" might that be? It certainly isn't the U.S.
"The sad thing is that the repercussions will be devastating once God is completely shut out of this country... " A gloom and doom BS appeal to emotion instead of reality. If "god" is so powerfully omnipotent, how can he be "shut out"? It's a pathetic argument, and really, if you stop to think about it, you're actually blaspheming your god by saying that.
God is all powerful, omnipotent, and everything else you said. But you forget that He gives us free will. The ability to choose what choices we make. If we didn't have a choice of following Him or not, that would make us robots... He wants us to genuinely love Him and serve Him... That is why He doesn't keep us from shutting Him out.
Would you care to respond to the argument from unnecessary suffering?
Cheers,
Darwin's Beagle
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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France