Many are not sure whether there is a God or not. Some say that Buddha is the true God, others say that Alla is, and still others say that we are gods. Atheists claim that there is no God and still others believe in ancient gods and godesses. Well, there is proof of God's existence and if you will just be patient with me, you will soon find out. Don't worry, I won't attempt to persuade you the same way that I did when I first joined ProgressiveU-spewing out copied and pasted "facts" that never did anything to actually prove his existence. Not this time.
This time, it is a completely rational process of thinking. The first sign of God's existence is in us. We have emotions. We are sad, happy, angry, etc. There is no way that evolution could have created emotions. It could evolve body parts, such as humans not needing their appendixes anymore, animals losing tails and gaining legs perhaps. But that is all about physically adapting to the environment. Emotions aren't physical. They are spiritual. Therefore, how can evolution create something physical into an intellectual being with opinions, spirit and emotions? Evolution can only adapt and change physical body parts, not emotions. Emotions are the soulish part of us, and if we admit that we have a mind, spirit and soul then we know that a higher being must have created us-a speck can't do that, no matter how complex it was. People continue to spew out facts about how evolution works, but no one seems to have even bothered to explain how evolution created emotions and the soulish part of us! If you look at these simple things, you will see that I have a point and you can't just ignore it. However, if you have EVIDENCE that evolution can and DID created emotions and opinions and spirit, I would like to hear about it. If not, I suggest you investigate your beliefs because if we have emotions, someone else must have put them there. Its just a simple question that has never been given an answer to and for this reason I refuse to believe in evolution creating humans, instead of God. Let's forget about if we like God or not. Let's forget about if God is God or allah or buddha. We must first decide if there is one. And if there is, we had better find out who he is pretty soon.
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Your arguement is flawed from the very beginning. Emotions aren't spiritual. An emotion is a "complex reaction pattern, involving experiential, behavioral, and physiological elements, by which the individual attempts to deal with a personally significant matter of event." It is physiological and psychological. It is related to spiritual and physical expressions, but it is not spiritual or physical.
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You just said that it is related to spiritual and physical expressions. So you admit that there is a spirit. Therefore, you didn't answer my question about how evolution can created emotions. It can't!
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
No, I said that some people believe it is related to spiritual and physical expression. I'm not discussing evolution at the moment, I'm discussing the flawed concept that you just used. Spiritual doesn't have to do with religions, religions uses spirituality, but it doesn't have to do with religion.
Spirituality may involve perceiving or wishing to perceive life as more important ("higher"), more complex or more integrated with one's world view; as contrasted with the merely sensual. You are using a very narrow and dumbed down version of spirit. Spiritual has to do with the spirit, not with the soul. Religions take the soul and say that it is spiritual, but it isn't because the soul is eternal. Belief in the soul is less common and very specific. Spirit also mean breath in latin, it has to do with life and breathing, not God. Besides evolution can give you emotions, Darwin's Beagle has touched on this I think.
if evolution can give you emotions... then why havent our emotions changed into something greater? if our earth is so old i would think that by now we could be controlling other people's emotions by now. =P where is the proof behind Darwin? who's proving him right? the scientists? it doesnt seem like their experiments and long process to prove him right has amounted to much. in fact... didnt Darwin end up admitting before he died that he was wrong? =/
"To be great is to be misunderstood..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I have to agree with you. "why havent our emotions changed into something greater?" user son never cites his definitions and NEVER mentions the evidence of how evolution creates emotions. Come on, we need proof! The atheists all bombard christians for proofof God, but when I ask them a simple question, they can't even cite one source and go for arguing about definitions and technicality instead.
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I told you to go look at Darwin Beagles stuff, he know more about this than me, I use what he uses, I don't have the links in a favorite folder. And the definitions you've given are wrong, so you're less credible than me. And I have given definitions.
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Why should I search through ALL of his blogs? If you so firmlyt believe in evolution you should firmly be able to disprove any objections, correct? Or are you ignorant enough to believe in something that you barely know anything about?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I never said I believed in evolution, you said I did. I neither believe in evolution or creation because I don't know enough about either. I'm saying what I'm saying but it doesnt defend evoluiton. So please don't put words in my mouth, that's a bad habit.
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Oh,sorry about that. I will do my best not to make assumptions.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
You say that all the time, yet you still do it.
Lmao, I was waiting for you to say that. Its been proven that Darwin did not recant, go look at Snopes.com.
Emotions can't change into something greater unless the systems what control them change. People adapt (evolve if you will), but emotions don't need to adapt because they are always used by the same thing.
Once again look at Darwin Beagles blogs, he has answered everything you just asked.
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Whether Darwin recanted or not is not the argument. The question is why he ignored the spiritual and emotional state of humans? Why is there no evidence to show the evolution of it or how they developed?
You said:"emotions don't need to adapt because they are always used by the same thing."
Wow. Um, very descriptive of you-emotions don't have to because they are special things used by the same thing. Thats what you just said. No evidence, no statistics, nothing. What are those things? You didn't reply to the definitions. Do you even have better definition than that which I posted? No? Then what are you arguing about? You said thing when you don't even know what you are talking about! Thing is defined as "some entity, object, or creature that is not or cannot be specifically designated or precisely described" You can't even specifically describe or designate what has to do with emotions and spirit and you continue to ignore my definitions!
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
If emotions are the exclusive result of souls, then why do lower animals display emotions? Common Christian thought would claim that animals don't have souls (excluding humans of course), so why do they display emotions? Evolution gave us the ability to think about and discuss emotions as well as to display them. Our emotions are deeper, more complex versions of lesser animal's emotions. So you see, our emotions have evolved into something greater from something lesser.
Now that I have answered your question I will point out that no matter how evolved our emotions are that question is meaningless. It is being asked in the present, at the highest possible emotional complexity available to you. So even if our emotions had changed into something greater, you would be wondering why they haven't turned into something greater still.
This is like working on an assembly line at a car factory and asking, "If this factory is meant to make cars, then why do I only ever see doors? Shouldn't I bee seeing something greater by now?" It shows a complete lack of awareness of your place in the middle of a process, not at the end of it.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memento mori, mahalo.
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principles."
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If you will glance at the definitions that I just posted you will see that you are incredibly flawed. Physiology AGAIN is the study of an organism's anatomy and its biological functions. IT says nothing about emotions. However, when looking up emotions one will find that is a FEELING accompanied by physiological changes. It is NOT physiological, it only creates physiological changes.
And spirit is:" the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul."
principle that inspires, animates, or pervades thought, feeling, or action
a divine, inspiring, or animating being or influence
IT is VITAL, because thats what separates us from others. Thats what makes us HUMAN. The dictionary just established that the spirit is the vital principle in humans. IT is vital AND it is the principle behind emotions. Again, now that we have established definitions. LEts see some real evidence, not just a definition debate. Lets stop beating around the bush shall we?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Honey, if you put enough... serotonin, say, into a person's blood, they're going to eventually feel really happy. Thus, to say that emotions create these physiological changes probably isn't all that accurate.
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Hey, accurate or not I got it straight off of dictionary.com
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
No, you said it yourself... dictionary.com says it is ACCOMPANIED by physiological changes. NOT that emotions CREATE physiological changes. It is, in fact, the other way around.
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perhaps its not spiritual... but how then do you define the presence of morals? our strong beliefs in something? feelings are by far very physical. explain the feelings resulting from the death of a loved one. where do those come from? how do we know how to feel them?
"To be great is to be misunderstood..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Feeling are emotions...you've gone to school right? Morals are codes of conduct, they are based of natural law, not divine law. Strong beliefs in something is psychological. Those feelings come from emotions, which come from our psychological states, and we know how to feel them because our brain tells them too...it has to do with the nervous system.
then according to the arguments, spirituality has no existence. it has no presence. its not a part of who we are. its a figment of our miniscule imaginations. how do we know that morals are true and right? its not just the psychological strong beliefs... its something more. something that each of us possess. something deeper. what is it if its not apart of our soul? whats that conscience deep in our gut? in the back of our heads? its not related to spirit? its just imagination? its only us? we dont live for anything? we have no purpose?
"To be great is to be misunderstood..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Lets break this apart. User son says that it has nothing to do with spirit but with our mental and physical state. if its our physical state, then you are agreeing that it is subject to evolution since evolution is in charge of phsyical adaptation. How come we haven't seen that?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I said psychological not physical, can't you read? This is like you calling Serbia, Syria, and every time we tried to point out you were using the wrong country, you kept saying Syria, read before you start asking more question, then I'll answer when you show some intelligence.
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IGnoring my definitions again? You seem to be deeply confused. In your very first comment you said "It is physiological and psychological." Now
you are saying that its not. Do you even know what physiological means? Physiology:
"the branch of biology dealing with the functions and activities of living organisms and their parts, including all physical and chemical processes."
Therefore, ITS PHYSICAL.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
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Again, my friend you are deeply flawed.
morlas: principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct of, pertaining to, or ACTING on the mind, feelings, will, or character. Morals are a result of our feelings and will and character. Those feelings shape our morals. Morals are not common sense nor facts of life, they differ from everyone else. And feelings don't come from psychological states. Glance at the definitions AGAIN and you will see that feelings are SPIRITUAL.
Psychology is "The emotional and behavioral characteristics of an individual, group, or activity: the psychology of war." It all goes back to emotions which goes back to spiritual. NOthing about emotions being physical.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
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If you will glance down at my definitions, you will see that spirituality and emotions are intertwined and that they in fact exist. They dictionary defines spirit as a vital part of human beings. Just glance at the definitions.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I never said they don't exist, but I said they have to do with psychological processes. I looked at your definitons and some of them are wrong, lol...funny how that happens.
Besides I'm not arguing in favor of evolution, but arguing that you only have a beginners ideas and don't understand science fully. All you are doing is taking things off wikipedia and using definitions that you've added words too.
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WHOA! Stop making assumptions, okay? I never use wikipedia for starters and second, they are all off of dictionary.com. Check it out yourself: physiology, emotions, spirit, etc. How dare you accuse me when you haven't even cited a single source! How dare you say I have beginners knowledge when you can't even defend evolution or your points without helplessly referencing me to other users? You need to reconsider your accusations.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Even if some form of evolution is apparent, from the very beginning wherever we started from we had character and emotions. It's not something that had to be developed.
How do you know when emotions started? Were you there?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
i like your thoughts. see... if there was NO God... then why does everyone have a view about Him? why is He such a big controversy? why do people feel so strongly that He cant exist? if we have thoughts about Him existing or not existing at all... arent you only proving to yourself that He really does hold an existence. no one can escape the thoughts about our views on issues relating to God. how can one NOT believe in something that DOESNT exist. right? =)
"To be great is to be misunderstood..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Everyone has a view on God because we have people who believe in it, it doesn't make God real. The controversy is in how can a God exist and how people who believe in God can only use holy writings and not actual proof. You can believe in the concept of something that doesn't exist, or you can not believe in the concept of what does not exist...or once again believe in the concept of something that does exist or doesnt exist.
the fact that we have a choice to choose whether we have a view on God is proof to something greater. wouldnt you say? how do we possess this freedom of choice and belief and opinion?
those holy writings are the proof. and whats really odd about it is that they actually add up to create facts. those records in the Bible? it seems like they're set perfectly with the history of kings during those times. how do you explain those truths and then deny the creation explanation written in that same book? you cant deny facts... where are the writings about evolution that explain evolution? are they parallel to the other sacred writings from history? does it add up evenly?
"To be great is to be misunderstood..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
No, I would say that we have that choice because we have free will.
Choice consists of the mental process of thinking involved with the process of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one of them for action. Not very mystical at all
those holy writings are the proof. and whats really odd about it is that they actually add up to create facts. those records in the Bible? The holy books aren't proof because all of them claim to be God-breathed and to be the right one.
it seems like they're set perfectly with the history of kings during those times. Um, heard of history? There are records from the courts talking about who was king as well as other writings, so it's not hard for them to match up, it doesn't have to come from God. I just explained it for you. Obviously you don't read outside of religious text or you could answer this, or your stupid? There are parallels because of why I wrote. I take it you think no one traveled before th 20th century with what you've stated.
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Will is defined as :" the act or process of using or asserting one's choice; volition:" From dictionary.com, not wikipedia, not my own definitions. And if you take a look at all the definitions that I posted, you will find that volition is part of the spirit.
Choice is defined as "Choice, alternative, option, preference all suggest the power of choosing between things. Choice implies the opportunity to choose." are choices are influenced by our opinions of the choices. So I ask you again, how did evolution create opinions? free will is the power to choose influenced by our opinions, so can you answer my question finally? And it can't be physical as I have defined, but you keep saying that its physiological NOT physical. Hello! Its almost the same! Check out the CITED definitions again.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
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You bring up a good point, but many on here have argued that the bible is not a reliable source because there are many different versions of it (latin, greek, hebrew) that are contradictory. I am not sure how true that is, but all I am asking is how can we continue to believe in evolution without examining all aspects?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
You are still not answering my question. And by the way, YOUR definition is seriously flawed. Physiology is
"physiology (fĭz'ē-ŏl'ə-jē) Pronunciation Key
The scientific study of an organism's vital functions, including growth and development, the absorption and processing of nutrients, the synthesis and distribution of proteins and other organic molecules, and the functioning of different tissues, organs, and other anatomic structures. Physiology studies the normal mechanical, physical, and biochemical processes of animals and plants. "
IT CLEARLY says that physiology is the study of organism's vital functions and anatomic structures. IT says nothing about emotions. Emotions are :
feelings that are often accompanied by physiological changes; The part of the consciousness that involves feeling; sensibility" IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING,
consciousness is "the mind or the mental faculties as characterized by thought, feelings, and volition."
Okay, so we established that physiology is the anatomy and biology study of an organism's organs WHILE emotions INVOLVE FEELING, SENSIBILITY.
THEY ARE ALL POINTING TO EMOTIONS< AND SENSIBILITY< AND SPIRIT! So we are back to square one, leaving you to still answer my unanswered question instead of beating around the bush and looking for excuses.
Okay, clearly you don't believe that God exists and you don't follow the argument that he exists because since the beginning of time people have felt a need for one. But since humans came into existence, we have all being seeking who God is. Its like internal instinct. God is defined as "a being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people" and worship is defined as "to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing)." It all goes back to feeling. I have proven through quoted definitions that emotions are connected to the spirit. Human beings today WORSHIP gods and idols and what not. What are they doing when they are worshipping? Reacting to the mental and physical processes? Come one, they are FEELING. Feelings are part of the spirit. Right now you have negative feelings about God or gods because you are quick to disacknowledge his existence. You are sitting here arguing about his nonexistence when you are feeling with the very emotions that he GAVE YOU!
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Yes, your brain and nervous system have to do with your anatomy and those both have to do with emotions and feeling. You're doing all my work for me...ah how I love it.
They all point to emotions which have to do with psychology. Spirit once again is breath, it has to do with breathing, you have a spirit if you breath. Sensibility refers to an acute perception of or responsiveness toward something, such as the emotions of another. So you're still going in circles, not me.
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
How am I doing my work for you? You continually change your mind and defintions! Cite your spirit source because thats sure as heck not how dictionary.com defines it. Do you realize what you are saying? You are saying that everything that breathes has a spirit. Tress breathe in co2 and exhale O2, so do they have spirits? This is a joke!
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
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True, since the beginning of time, people have been creating gods for themselves. What does that show? That there is a human need for a god, put in there by God. Why do we have this constant struggle and battle over whether there is a god or not? Because we know that there is one, but we won't admit. That's why we have to constantly prove it to ourselves. The doubts are always there in the end, no matter how firm you are in your beliefs. You are never 100% sure, because everyone has doubts. Many people just try to ignore them.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
It shows that humans have a hard time understand the universe so they created something to explain how the universe came to be, before science. There is a constant struggle because people claim there is a God, and the people who don't believe in a God, try to show logically and scientifically that God can't exist, but believers more or less refer back to their holy books, which make them look bad. I admit that I can't prove or disprove God, but the more I look into physics, it shows that a God is impossible, you're only looking from the religious side and not the scientific side.
explain how scientifically God cant be. uhm. the earth would be a prime example of His existence... i believe in micro evolution. im not stupid. =P
how can a little canary turn into an eagle? =/ it doesnt make sense. how can a big BANG "make" the earth. i mean. wouldnt it destroy rather than create?
agh. XP
"To be great is to be misunderstood..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Yes, but why did they turn to a supreme being for an answer? Why not something completely random like evolution? BEcause every being has a thirst to know their purpose in life and whether there is life after death and whether there is a god or not. These are questions that every generation has asked, and it is more intuitive than you think. You agree that people argue about God all the time, but you don't address why it has ALWAYS been like that. Did evolution provide our ideas about God? Come on. You have got to have better ideas than that.
And you said that the more you look into physics, the more you see that God is impossible. I am really curious. You might have a point. Can you provide some examples please?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Has it occured to you that God created 'randomness' as just one aspect of his creation? It seems as though it might be an essential ingredient of free will.
LMFAO
this is cracking me up.
"To be great is to be misunderstood..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
I find this debate to be quite interesting. Although, I was expecting all the atheists to join in with their sources and facts. This isn't as hard as I thought! I wonder where they all are?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Ok, I have a football game to go to so I'll finish arguing this later. But first, yes I am argueing definitions because if you use the wrong definitions, then you can't argue anything else because you'll be argueing definitions the whole time, which we are doing.
Spirit: the vital principle or animating force within living things
the general atmosphere of a place or situation and the effect that it has on people; "the feel of the city excited him"; "a clergyman improved the tone of the meeting"; "it had the smell of treason"
a fundamental emotional and activating principle determining one's character
any incorporeal supernatural being that can become visible (or audible) to human beings
emotional state: the state of a person's emotions (especially with regard to pleasure or dejection); "his emotional state depended on her opinion"; "he was in good spirits"; "his spirit rose"
intent: the intended meaning of a communication
liveliness: animation and energy in action or expression; "it was a heavy play and the actors tried in vain to give life to it"
heart: an inclination or tendency of a certain kind; "he had a change of heart"
infuse with spirit; "The company spirited him up"
Emotion: Emotion, in its most general definition, is an intense mental state that arises autonomically in the nervous system rather than through conscious.
Physiology: the branch of the biological sciences dealing with the functioning of organisms
processes and functions of an organism
Psychology: The science that deals with mental processes and behaviour.
Here are the definitions I am using that are widely accepted by the world. As you can see, physiology has to deal with the functioning of organisms, which would include the nervous system, and mental processes (both that I claim are what emotions come from), psychology. Emotions have to do with a mental state and the nervous system. Emotions have to do with the spirit which is the vital animating force in living things. The spirit is from the latin word meaning breath. Breathing is the vital animating force, it keeps us alive. Spirit is also defined as an emotional state. So by using definitions, I have just disproved your entire arguement.
Have a good evening
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
I don't care how widely accepted by the world they are. You never cited a source and I am forced to believe that you got them off of wikipedia and you added your own definitions to it. You also JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF! Spirit YOU SAID is
"a fundamental emotional and activating principle determining one's character". Hello! You have a spirit because you have emotions which are FUNDAMENTAL! How did evolution make that? THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION!
You twisted the entire meaning of emotions and NEVER CITED A SOURCE USING ONLY YOUR IDEA OF IT! You said that emotion is:
"Emotion, in its most general definition, is an intense mental state that arises autonomically in the nervous system rather than through conscious."
according to dictionary.com, autonomy is "independence or freedom, as of the will or one's actions: the autonomy of the individual." Will means choices determined by certain opinions. How did evolution make OPINIONS?!! You aren't using sources therefore My definitions stand and yours crumble. You are consoling yourself by saying emotions are nothing more than a process in the nervous system. You keep changing your mind. You said that emotion is physiological (physical basically by my CITED definition) when it is in fact "often accompanied by physiological changes; a feeling" Its a feeling causing physiological changes. Therefore it can't be simply part of the nervous system! You don't even know what the nervous system is! dictionary.com defines it as: "The system of cells, tissues, and organs that regulates the body's responses to internal and external stimuli. In vertebrates it consists of the brain, spinal cord, nerves, ganglia, and parts of the receptor and effector organs." It is clearly not in charge of emotions. So next time, cite your sources and CLOSELY investigate your definitions. Citing them by saying they are widely accepted by the world does nothing to strengthen your case. By using MY definitions I have just disporved your entire argument. Have a good evening back to you.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Have you taken human biology... ever?
The nervous system controls EVERYTHING. You know when you blush when you are embarrassed? It's because the nervous system tells your blood vessels to dilate, so your skin appears red. This is a result of epinephrine, a hormone released when your BRAIN (part of your nervous system) perceives something that requires more 'fight or flight' response. So your heartbeat increases, you sweat more, all those sorts of things. Completely controlled by your nervous system.
As I mentioned above, if you give someone serotonin, they will be happy. Just as if you deprive them of serotonin, they will be angry and aggressive. You know why? Because depleted serotonin levels probably mean you aren't getting enough protein (since serotonin is made, in part, from tryptophan, an essential amino acid). So, you need to go hunting. You can't hunt very well if you're all happy and carefree... you have to be aggressive and focused.
Do you have any pets? Maybe a dog or a cat? I know my dog likes to crawl up into my lap and keep me company when she senses I'm sad or lonely, and she avoids me when I'm angry, because she's afraid she'll get hurt. She can get depressed, and does when my mom leaves her for an extended period of time. What's the point in her having these emotions? Certainly, emotions can't be linked to the soul, then, because animals don't have souls, or do they?
~C
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This is very interesting. I never really thought emotions as something spiritual before. It really brought new perspective into play for me. My philosopher professor told us once that scientists have no business in existence of God because the subject is out of their field. I guess he probably means that religions have no business in science either. And I do somewhat agree. Whenever people try to prove that God does not exist by using scientific procedures, I often feel as if something is missing in their explanations. It's just a weird if someone's using religions to explain science (such as biology or chemistry). Therefore, I can already tell this is going to be a LONG debate. haha
But I'm looking forward to reading more even if I might necessarily agree with it. Keep up the good work. I wish the blog was a little bit longer. However, your comments with son_of_disaster and jperry2008 just made up for it. lol
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http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Hey! Thanks for commenting. I appreciate it. Yeah, it will be a long debate considering we haven't even FINISHED definition debates! But yeah, its fun. When you said "Whenever people try to prove that God does not exist by using scientific procedures, I often feel as if something is missing in their explanations". But I don't think that I am using scientific measures to prove God's existence. In fact, the entire point of this is to use LOGIC, such as how did emotions come to be, and disprove evolution. And if evolution is disproved then who created us?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Your greatest weakness is that you assume the existance of a soul. Prove the existance of a soul. You can't, therefore your whole argument falls apart.
Next, you assume that emotions have to have evolved, when I can prove that humans aren't the only animals with emotions. Look at your dog (if you've got one, cats just are a shitty example). He can be happy, be ashamed, be sad, be mad, be anything that we can be. A dog wags his tail when he's happy. He tucks his tail when he's scared.
As to the "who proved Darwin" argument, all the evidence we have points to Darwin being correct. And, guess what? He never retracted his stance on evolution. That'sa stupid rumor spread by creationists that fear that they might be wrong.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Oh, and, Son, I might not be around as much as is the norm for me: Haitus to do school work.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
That's cool, I just wanted to get your take on some of the stuff I wrote, and see if I was flawed in any of my logic. But I know what you mean, I need to cut back on here, schools kicking my ass and I'm on here constantly.
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
A person is defined as a living human and a Person is defined as the actual self or individual personality of a human being according to dictionary.com. So the question isn't necessarily whether or not a human being has soul. I don't have to prove that. I only have to prove that human beings have emotions, which you can't deny, and opinions AND INDIVIDUAL PERSONALITY and taking that into account, I AM ASKING FOR SOMEONE TO PROVE FOR ME HOW EVOLUTION CREATED EMOTIONS AND OPINIONS IN HUMANS! IN WHICH STAGE DID THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN?! DO YOU HAVE PROOF?
"Next, you assume that emotions have to have evolved, when I can prove that humans aren't the only animals with emotions."I am arguing that animals have emotions. I agree that they do. My question is HOW ON EARTH DID EVOLUTION CREATE THAT!??? STILL NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT TO ME! I would think that people so devout in their faith like you could at least throw a statistic or source in my face. hm, guess not. I wonder why people would believe in something that they know very little about. HOw can one believe in evolution without even answering this question? I asked you how emotions evolved, you didn't answer. You only jumped to the other argument that animals have emotions. So what? Whats the connection? I fail to see it. How did a speck CREATE emotions is my question.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I have no faith; I couldn't care less if He exists.
No one can PROVE that emotions stem from evolution BECAUSE THEY DON'T! God is not responsible for emotions: the environment is! If you are in a good environment, it triggers the release of certain hormones and various other chemicals, which then causes you to behave in a manner not like your norm. For example, Beta-Endorphins create "happiness." You can get these from a good day, sex, or massive amounts of chocolate.
We then look at the definition of an emotion and find that it lies in phychological (brain stuff) and physiological (human body stuff) changes. Certain parts of your brain "light" up when you have a change in mood. Your body temperature lowers when you're "sad" and it raises when you're "happy." All an emotion is, is a "complex reaction pattern, involving experiential, behavioral, and physiological elements, by which the individual attempts to deal with a personally significant matter of event." No where does it talk about God. Nothing about spirits or souls. Nothing about faith, etc.
Yes, Faith can cause an emotional reaction, but that does not provide evidence for or against the existance of God. It would suggest that the human mind can alter the human body through thought, but not that god exists.
A speck? Now you're over-simplifing. The Big Bang and Evolution do not go hand in hand. They're seperate Theories. They're next to scientific law until we can prove them wrong because all the evidence suggests that they're right. You cannot lump them together unless you're going to discuss something COMPLETELY different.
So, to summerize everything I just said:
-God may or may not exist.
-Evolution did not create emotions, humans did.
-"Emotions" are caused by the environment.
-The Big Bang and Evolution are two completely different things.
-Read this: http://books.google.com/books?id=BoasLwULEDIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the... You'll have to buy it, but it's a good read. That's simply a preview.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
i will touch more on emotions later cuz I have to go, but to leave off:
You said that emotions are basically reactions from the human body. Well, when evolution supposedly created humans did it or did it NOT create humans with the capacity to have emotions? You are saying evolution didn't create humans, humans created it. My point is, humans can't rely on emotions and invent it themselves. It had to have been there the whole time for the human body to make use of it. That means evolution had to make the capacity for emotions in the human body. My question AGAIN is HOW? It can't. The human body can't make use of something that wasn't there all along. Therefore, evolution had to make it. Again, How?
And can you please explain to me how evolution created unique INDIVIDUAL personalities? Opinions?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
You're putting me in a bad light by not reading what I'm writing. Try again.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
I read it again and it hasn't changed. Do you want to correct yourself or elaborate?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
To the first part, I did say that. But the "capacity to have emotions" part I cannot answer one way or the other. As I am saying that God has nothing to do with emotions, I should say that evolution spawned emotions. It could simply be that emotions were part of the "Survival of the Fittest" bit.
Did not!
Repeating yourself aside, I will attempt to answer this in such a way that you'll surely understand, because you didn't the last time. I am saying that an emotion is a response to a stimulus. The concept is just action/reaction. Prick your finger, it will bleed. "If...then..." logic. However, "emotions" are a human concept. The IDEA of emotions, happy, sad, or otherwise, comes from humans assigning words, meaning, and idea to these responses. Early man noticed that if he dropped a rock on his foot, it hurt. Every time. The bigger the rock, the more it hurt. He called the feeling in his foot when said rock fell on it pain. Pain, the noticed, caused salty water to fall from ones eyes. They called this reaction "sad."
Define unique. "There's nothing you can do that can't be done. There's nothing you can sing that can't be sung." Define individual. You're acting according to a set pattern of reactions to a given stimulus, just as I am. Define an opinion. What makes an opinion? Is an opinion a given feeling on a subject, or just an overall statement about a subject? I argue that nothing is unique, no one is individual, and no one has any opinion on the matter.
Also, an opinion is just a thought. This thought can prompt action. Basing an opinion on past experience allows us to avoid future problems, making it EVOLUTIONARY.
Nicholas Aden
Self-Promotion
Wow. If the entry didn't impress me, the amount of comments certainly has!
alenka, in your first paragraph you mention that there are people who think WE are gods. What religion is that? I'm not sure I've heard of it, and personally it sounds a little odd.
I like your evidence of emotions being spiritual and not evolutionary. Very interesting.
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Hey Bridge. Are you new? I haven't seen you here before. Anyways, just out of curiosity, why didn't you like the entry? ABout humans being gods, I can't remember the name and its hard to google something when you don't know the name. But its a religion where you look on your power, and only your own power, for energy and then you radiate that energy somehow to create your surroundings. I don't know much about it cuz I don't want to get into that but if you find out what its called let me know.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Emotions, as I see it, have an evolutionary justification. I can see where it comes from. It is sort of like a mental equivilant of the five sences. If you touch something, and it hurts, you learn not to do it again. Likewise, if you do something, and it makes you sad, you learn not to do it again. That wasn't a great explanation, but I think that you can get the picture. And, one can say that our emotions have evolved. Some animals do have some kinds of emotions. Ours are more complex. A dog, for example, can be happy. It can be sad. Angry. Whatever. We, however, have a much more complex emotional make-up.
The reason we have not evolved in quite a while, emotionally, or physically or whatever, is because there has been no drive for evolution. Our ability to force the enviornment to adapt to us has slowed our need to adapt to the enviornment.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
"That wasn't a great explanation, but I think that you can get the picture". You are right, that wasn't a great explanation and no I don't get the picture. You know what surprises me? When I first wrote blogs on God's existence and disproving evolution, you and others demanded sources and when you got them, you dismissed all evidence because the author of the source was a fraud, according to your terms. So, since I have learned SO MUCH from you guys, do you honestly believe I will agree with you or even accept your ideas when you have no sources or solid evidence?! All that you guys are doing is speculating and making things up based on your ideas.Nicholas Aden says its not evolutionary, you say it is-do you guys know enough of your beliefs to tell me straight up? The fact that you have no evidence to back you up and that two evolutionists are saying two completely different things shows me that I was right to a certain degree. Yuo have to admit it, since you can't even legitimately disprove the idea.
ANOTHER THING, you KEEP MISSING THE POINT! Its not whether emotions evolved or not. I am not interested in that. My question, HOW DID EMOTIONS COME TO EXIST? HOW DID OPINIONS COME TO EXIST?? HOW DID A SPECK (not exactly but you know what I mean) CREATE ALL OF THIS? UNIQUE PERSONALITY? HOW? Why do most people commenting here avoid answering this? I will tell you. Its because none of you know.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
How did everythingcome to exist? Well, you and I have the same authority. None. Neither of us are scientists. My point is this. Why is god necessary for everything to be created? You claim that it is unlikely for all this to have arisen from a cosmic explosion. I claim that it is even more unlikely for it to have been created by some sort of super-intellegence that exists for eternity and consistantly breaks the rules of reality that apply to everything else.
I have never encountered anything that has caused me to believe that some sort of higher being is essential for life to exist in the Universe or, for that matter, for the Universe to exist in the first place.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
I still find it interesting that you are not answering my questions. I am not trying to convince that God exists. I am not even telling you which god to believe in. All I am saying is that evolution is not the answer for our creation because of these flaws which you couldn't decently argue against. And if evolution isn't responsible for creating us, then obviously something or someone, whichever you choose, must have created us. My point is to raise this question and have you decide whether you will believe in evolution or the cosmic explosion despite the descrepencies, or whether you will seek the truth. Right now it doesn't mean God. It means DEFINITELY NOT EVOLUTION>
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
My inability to talk about science doesn't ean that I don't understand it. Nothing that I have ever come across has shown that evolution is in any way disproven. Nothing that you have ever said on this site shows any serious holes in the argument. And much that I have seen shows it to be a fairly strong Theory. (Please don't say that it's only a theory.)
I do not, exactly believe in it, however. I accept it as the most logical position proposed today. I, myself, will not go into the field of science. It isn't my thing. My carrer choice won't be to further science. However, I will be watching the field. If a theory that works better than evolution comes up, then I would no longer accept evoluton.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Look, I just want an explanation, a refutation to my points. I am begging you, DISPROVE me! You can't. And when you can't, then my point stands. It may not be scientifically proven but it stands stronger than your point. I just want a refutation, a legitimate scientific one. You don't have one, so own up to the fact that evolution has flaw, however minor it can be. You haven't proven how it can create emotions. So the question remains, how are we here with emotions a personality and unique individuality?
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
alenka, try understanding what people are saying. It is not that it is impossible to disprove your claim. I'm not even sure what your claim is at this point, because your thoughts are so convoluted (the title of your blog is about proving god exists, and yet you claim that has nothing to do with your questions). But that's beside the point. What people are trying to tell you is that we are STUDENTS. We, by and large, are not scientists. We don't know everything there is to know about evolutionary theory. Thus, we cannot give you the specific details you are looking for. Go talk to a scientist that deals with this theory IN DEPTH every day, and you'll get an a