I wrote a blog recently about a letter Muslims wrote to Christians leaders and some people commented that Muslims and Christians should stop fighting. It is really not about the Muslims, it is about the Christians.
Wikipedia puts the number of Christians killed since the conception of Christianity at 70million. Religious tolerance says "Over 200 million Christians in more than 40 countries worldwide "face the prospect of persecution" because of their religion.More than 150,000 Christians were expected to be killed for their faith in 1997."
There is no doubt that Muslims are the most popular killers of Christians but in reality almost every religion in the world that has been around for a while have killed their own share of Christians. China and India are especially well known for their persecution. I heard a story about a pastor who was jailed for preaching the gospel of Christ and went straight to the police station that arrested him and preach to them after he was released. He was asked if he was crazy, he said "i am crazy for Christ." Those countries are not even Muslim countries.
Christians have been killed by Jews, Japanese, Koreans and what have you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians#People.27s_Republ.... There is even a blogger who blogs on Christian persecution alone; he never runs out of material. http://persecutionblog.com/.
So why is everybody killing Christians. The answer is simple and it is found in the bible. "Matthew 24:9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me." It is that simple, right on and with unbelievable precision. But he also says in Matthew 5: 10-12 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
In my point of view, it is the devil that is persecuting Christians and is only using Muslims and others as a tool. We Christians know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. When you hear something like "There have been more Christians killed in the 20th century than in the previous nineteen centuries combined." -Religious Tolerance. You begin to realize to understand that there is a devil racing against time.
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what a surprise. i'm the only comment.
You know; i'm not sure of what to make of that. The argument is probably flawless or flawlessly flawed, but someone rated it a 4 so hopefully it's the earlier..lol
Notice even your own comment was just "i'm the only comment."
well, i just rated you five.
that's great to know
How many people have christians killed in the name of their lord?
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Funny sounds a lot like.
"And if you are killed or die in the Way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all that they amass (of worldly wealth)" (Surat Al-Imran 3:157). "Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the Paradise.
Religions are all the same and will continue to repeat their mistakes b/c they are built on the fundamental property...."My God's dick is bigger than your God's dick"
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
"Nothing is True"
now there's a flawless argument!!!!!!! GOOD JOB.
Now, it sure does sound the same. But while one says "killed or die" die which may include suicide, the other says "when people..." which means it can't include suicide nor suicide killings
Except the Koran is againist suicide, so no it doesn't count suicide.
"O you who believe! do not devour your property among yourselves falsely, except that it be trading by your mutual consent; and do not kill your people; surely Allah is Merciful to you."
do not kill your people means do not kill yourself. It's as if Allah is speaking to the group and uses "people" to refer to a large audience. So do not kill yourselves is the interpretated meaning.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
I have never heard that "do not kill your people means do not kill yourself", thanks, that's a world premiere.
Actually it is a 1500 year old premiere. I don't make this shit up and granted my explanation sucked balls but that is what Muslims take the quote for meaning. I probably pulled the quote off a crappy translation website and could go read my Koran, it is right across the room but nooo lol. O welll. For the record I'm not a muslim I just happen to own a Koran, it is next to my bible, next to my buddhist literature...yay diversity.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
You are one interesting person.
I suppose thanks are in order then.
Thank you. *Bows graciously*
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
I just have to know, are you trying to be sarcastic when you say "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" or do you really believe that?
No sarcasm intended. Although what I think it means and what you think means are prolly vastly different.
I wrote about it though so no worries.
http://www.progressiveu.org/222822-nothing-is-true-everything-is-permitt...
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
thanks i'll take a look at it. :)
I just have to ask if you have ever tried defending Christianity to a Muslim before? I find it very interesting that you seem to defend Islam in so many of your comments and yet not once do you defend Christianity....and you say that diversity is great. I would tend to question the integrity of that statement.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Sure thing is there aren't many vocal Islamic members on this site or in the US. I guess that whole thing about how we, as Americans AND christians, look down on their religion in this country. But if I went to Iraq, I could argue many positive points of Christianity to a muslim. However why argue what you agree with, that isn't productive. That's going into a room with a bunch people like you and going, "yes we all agree on this....now what."
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
You say that Christians have been killed by Jews. Besides the debatable Christ, can you say when they have? Because as far as I know, it's LARGELY been the other way around. Your own source even says that persecution of Christians by Jews is sketchy at best...
The... examination of the sources for fourth century Jewish history will show that the universal, tenacious, and malicious Jewish hatred of Christianity referred to by the church fathers and countless others has no existence in historical fact. The generalizations of patristic writers in support of the accusation have been wrongly interpreted from the fourth century to the present day. That individual Jews hated and reviled the Christians there can be no doubt, but there is no evidence that the Jews as a class hated and persecuted the Christians as a class during the early years of the fourth century.
Prior to the complete division of the two, Christianity was just a sect of Judaism, so any persecution there would have not been persecution of Christians by Jews, but violence between two sects of Judaism.
And you know, once the Christians gained power, they turned against the Jews. Think of the Inquisition, perhaps. Or even as recent as the Holocaust, though I wouldn't personally classify that as Christians persecuting Jews.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Paul the writer of more than half of the new testament was once into the business of killing Christians. History, not the bible now, has it that most, if not all, the disciples of Christ that were known as apostles in were murdered. A particular one stands out "James Alpheus also known as Thaddeus : We know he lived at least five years after the death of Christ because of mentions in the Bible. According to tradition, James son of Alpheus was thrown down from the temple by the scribes and Pharisees; he was then stoned, and his brains dashed out with a fuller’s club. This is wasn't recorded in the bible, just history books."
If you are fooled now into believing Hitler was a christian, which i can't disprove, http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html even though all Christian leaders around the world condemned his actions, and the bible says Isreal is my son, EVEN MY FIRST BORN, you surely would have been fooled to support him during his rain of terror. There sure were Christians during the holocaust and many of them who helped the Jews escape the border, paid with their lives.http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/pages/t018/t01866.html, http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/pages/t025/t02579.html, http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/pages/t028/t02831.html,
Again, in the early days of Christianity, it was not a separate religion. It was like the Sunnis fighting the Shiites. Sectarian violence. The Christians were committing heresy by worshiping a false idol, at least in the view of the Jews of the time. Additionally, no one is denying that some Jews hated and still hate Christians. However, to say that as a group, the Jews had a policy of persecution and murdering the Christians when they were Christians (instead of when they were a sect of Judaism)... well, I haven't seen any evidence for it.
And the point of my comment was not to say that Hitler was Christian. I even said that I didn't think it was a case of Christians persecuting the Jews (because it was more of a racial identity thing than a religious thing).
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
You may look at Christianity and Judaism as the same religion, but I am fairly certain that Jews and Christians during the time of Christ would have totally disagreed with that statement. And as Sportominc said, during the time of Paul there were many Jews who were into the business of persecuting Christians. Saul was one of them and he writes of it himself in his letter and it is recorded in the book of Acts, which by the way is a history book.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
"Matthew 24:9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Religions have the ugly habit of killing each other's members. Predicting that is a very safe bet, and not even worth considering as prophecy. The all nations bit, however, is far from true.
Oh, and the reason more Christians were killed last century than all of those before might just be because there were more Christians and more (and bloodier) wars.
T.k.
1.To say the bible makes "safe bet" predictions is almost irritating. In that same chapter it makes more than 5 predictions and throughout the bible there are (i'm guessing) more than five thousand. Jesus alone fulfilled(according to scholars) about 800 predictions of what the son of God would be. But each time it comes true, people looking through the eyes of a person in the year 2007 believes it is obvious.
2."Religions have the ugly habit of killing each other's members." During the time that prediction was made and throughout the bible it just wasn't happening- for people to kill each other because of their religion. They killed for dominance, race and everything but never for religion. The fanatics then believed in their gods showing how powerful they are.
1) I said that one was a "safe bet," not the others.
2) No Biblical scholar am I, which would be why I am unable to defend my argument. Consider this a victory for yourself, unless someone else would care to step in. *backs away, bowing*
T.k.
3. Some versions of the bible do not interpret it as all nations but if it was all nations that was truly meant then you can't say it isn't true because you haven't seen the end of time. But judging by what i have seen one can tell that it is not impossible, plus the prophecies formerly thought impossible, have on many occasions been fulfilled. By the way if you name any country in the world, i would name 5 for you that have persecuted Christians.
I don't count or judge arguments or debates in terms of victories or loses.
By that time every nation will have persecuted every religion and you won't be special anymore. If you set no time frame, the probability of something happing eventually increases to one, making it a safe bet. As of the present day, you certainly can't claim that every nation on Earth has persecuted Christians, 5-1 ratio or not. (I'm interpreting this is as organized persecution rather than sporadic incidents, by the way, and am also excluding warring factions of Christianity.)
I don't either. There are correct and incorrect conclusions, faulty and sound arguments, and valid and invalid evidence, but individuals cannot really win a debate - it is their ideas that may triumph. It just so happens that I have a complex that makes me determined to be right, so I withdraw when I realize that I am not.
T.k.
Oh, so now, you're telling me this YOU don't believe in the interpretation YOU give the passage. That's fine with me.
That was poor phrasing on my part. What I cannot argue is whether or not religions persecution existed at the time the New Testament was written, not whether your statement about the prophecy was absurd from a statistical standpoint. They are separate ideas.
See, I'll make a prophecy for you now: Someday the world will end as a result of nuclear war. It hasn't happened yet, but since I said "someday," you cannot now prove that it never will. My prophecy is as true as anyone's.
T.k.
You have a point. But you haven't told me any that has happened before, so i'd have to wait till your first comes true before i start trusting your clairvoyance.
True, I have no credentials. It's like a credit rating - these things take time to develop. : )
T.k.
The only problem we have now is that by the time your credentials are ready we'll all be fried...lol
This post hit really close to home because my grandfather was one of the 150,000 Christians who were killed for their faith in the year 1997. But I know that He is praising God in heaven right now and I will once again see him someday! Praise Him!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
I'm sorry to hear about that but then he was a man of God and remember when Job lost all he add? God replaced everything in two's except his Children. He got back the number he had before. A pastor said that was because everything was lost except his kids.