Every day, it seems the news gets worse and worse out of Somalia. From 20 years of chaos and no government to speak of to the current struggle between warlords and Islamists, nothing seems to go right in the East African nation.
Ted Koppel took a look at the disastrous results of US policy on NPR with Somalia: Decades of Unintended Consequences. The commentary -- more effective via the audio version than the written -- speaks of the Cold War-era weapons that are still killing and maiming Somalis. It speaks of the infamous Black Hawk Down incident.
Reportedly, the US recently backed those same warlords who shot down our Black Hawk helicopter and killed our Marines. The warlords lost Mogadishu, Somalia's capital, to the Islamists and now have fled their last southern Somalian stronghold.
Fighters determined to install Islamic rule across Somalia won a strategic town Wednesday, entering Jowhar after their secular rivals fled their last stronghold in the south, witnesses said.Source:Associated PressHours after the Islamic militia attacked Jowhar from three directions, the remaining forces of secular warlords - routed from the capital, Mogadishu, last week - fled east. The Islamic militia also seized the airport, about 6 miles outside downtown. Residents were fleeing. There were no immediate reports of casualties.
The news that the Islamists are almost-certain to control the entire country soon is not a good one for Washington. The US, as you may know, does not have the best relationship with many Islamic-led nations, especially those led by hard-line Islamic parties (this is a party who has shut down cinemas that show "corrupting" Western and Indian movies).
In fact, the US government is having a hard time finding allies in the country now that the warlords have been ousted (isn't it weird to say that warlords were our friends?).
American officials will sit down with their European counterparts on Thursday to try to come up with an answer to this central question: Is there anyone left in Mogadishu, Somalia, with whom the United States can do business?Source:New York Times
Meanwhile, working with the official leader of Somalia? Well, that's not much use. He's calling for the international community to help, but the memories of Black Hawk Down are still fresh in many leaders' minds.
Prime Minister Mohammed Ali Gedi may be the official leader of Somalia, but the transitional government that he leads "lacks the credibility and power to establish itself in Mogadishu" according to Robyn Dixon of the LA Times.
So what's the solution? I don't know -- but I do know that something needs to be done soon in East Africa.
Technorati Tags: Somalia
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its just terrable
That's kind of vague. could you, perhaps, put some critical thought into it and then write it down?
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There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
If lord BJ hadn't snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in The Mog. Imagine if he had supplied SF with the equipment and gunships they requested. Imagine if the UN were actually worth spitting on. Things could be quite different.
President Reagan hadn't given the Somalians the very weapons they used to shoot down our black hawk helicopter ... imagine if he had actually invested in the infrastucture instead of increasing the violence.
Things would be quite different.
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There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
Nice reply! And truthful too!
Even thought Reagan never gave them the weapons, it's still known that most of the terrorists in this world were given money and educated by the American government. To name a couple Suddam Hussein (spelling???) was educated by our govt. and one of the people who was involved in 9-11 went to graduated from NC A&T SU...just something to think about.
The correct answer was Yemen. Yemen was the answer we were looking for.
Time to tune your foil hat. You're attempt to make up BS and pawn it off onto a Republican won't work. Frankly, I'm surprised you didn't blame Bush.
The fact is that SF requested more armor, such as Bradleys, and gunships, such as AC130s. The one thing you DO NOT do is tell SF "no" but your lord and master BJ, with his loathe for the military, had no problem with it.
Worse yet, if you bother to look, Yemen is doing it still.
So you argue the fact that Reagan and Bush, Sr supplied Somalians with weapons during the Cold War? Do you also argue that we gave Saddam weapons during the Iran-Iraq war? Do you argue that we gave weapons to the mujahadeen during the Afghanistan-Russian war -- ones that were used by the Taliban?
Maybe you think that President Clinton somehow supplied the Yemenese with the 500 lbs of explosives they used to blow up the USS Cole? That's just stupid and, quite frankly, tin-foil-hattish.
The US supplied weapons to the warlords in Somalia. Those same warlords shot down the Blackhawk helicopter. These are facts. Solid facts. It is also a fact that the current Bush gave his support to the same warlords who, if they did not order it personally, certainly appluaded the effort, shot down the Blackhawk and caused military lives to be lost.
So stop trying to duck the facts and going off to a seprate incident under a different President.
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There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
And "Bush lied, Clinton only spooged".
How could you leave out the Illuminati, Masons, Stone Cutters and the Build-a-burgers (or whatever the hell they are)?
These are facts. Solid facts.
Yeah. They're about as "solid" as Bill Burkett & Mary Mapes' documents. Or as solid as "suitcase nukes".
Maybe you think that President Clinton somehow supplied the Yemenese with the 500 lbs of explosives they used to blow up the USS Cole?
If I'm not mistaken, you said it. I didn't. I will say that Clinton gave missile secrets to the Chi-Comms and gave nuke material to that pudgy, dog eating SOB in NoKo. You know, that POS whose leg Albright humped?
Do you argue that we gave weapons to the mujahadeen during the Afghanistan-Russian war -- ones that were used by the Taliban?
Yep. Just as even a simpler Mongoloid than you should. Even bin Laden denies help from the U.S.
"Personally, neither I nor any of my brothers saw evidence of American help." --Robert Fisk, "Anti-Soviet Warrior Puts His Army on the Road to Peace," Independent, 12-06-93.
Then in 1996:
FISK: Did not the Americans support the mujihideen's war against the Soviets?
UBL: We were never at any time friends of the Americans. We knew that the Americans support Jews in Palestine and that they are our enemies.
Can't argue with your hero, can you? He made these statements prior to 9/11. The lie you're spreading that we paid bin Laden and trained him didn't materialize until after 9/11. If you bother to look beyond the liberal, America hating propoganda, you'd find that neither anybody in the CIA nor followers of UBL will admit to it. Neither will you find any cancelled checks or news articles. In fact, both sides deny that we helped him along. But then that pisses in the Cheerios of the Hate America crowd, don't it?
Want more? Here ya go:
While the United States backed Pakistan and the mujihideen factions with money and equipment, the young Arab mujihideen's relationship with the United States is totally different.
Indeed the presence of those young Arab Afghans in Afghanistan and their increasing numbers represented a failure of U.S. policy and new proof of the U.S. stupidity. The financing of the activities of the Arab mujihideen came from aid sent to Afghanistan by popular (Arab) organizations. It was substantial aid.
The Arab mujihideen did not confine themselves to financing their own jihad but also carried Muslim donations to the Afghan mujihideen themselves. Osama bin Laden has apprised me of the size of the popular Arab support for the Afghan mujihideen that amounted, according to his sources, to $200 million in the forkm of military aid alone in 10 years....
[the Arabs] formed fronts that trained thousands of the Arab mujihideen and provided them with living expenses, housing, travel and organization.
If the Arab mujihideen are mercenaries of the United States who rebelled against it as it alleges, why is it unable to buy them back now? Are they not counted now-with Osama bin Laden as their head-as the primary threat to U.S. interests? Is not buying them more economical and less costly than the astronomical budgets that the Unites States is alotting for security and defense?"-- Ayman al-Zawahri, Knights Under the Prophet's Banner, part two.
Bet you didn't expect somebody who actually knew what they were talking about, did you? No. I suspect you thought that I would, without question, swallow the same spooge that you apparently have.
But....but you'll take the words of terrorists over mine????
You bet you're ass I would. In this case, their word is based on established reality. Your word is based on America/Republican hating hysteria.
BTW, I can go on. Shall I?
The fact that you actually take anything that Osama bin Laden or other terrorists say as the gospel is just the proof that anyone needs that you are not interested in the truth, but rather in getting your point across -- and damn the facts, or damn whose lies you have to pass off as truths.
You take things tangentially connected and make daisy chains of blame that always go back to Democrats -- even when it has to go through four layers of Republican politicians, a couple of fascists and maybe a neocon author thrown in. Come on.
And your main problem is that you can never defned your point. Instead, you whine, "Well Clinton did this!" as if that justifies the law-breaking of George W Bush. Are you that childish, or just that naive?
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There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
And your main problem is that you can never defned your point.
I just did. However, you're hoping like hell that nobody notices that YOU haven't. Why? Because you can't. All you have is liberal douchebag kook talking points, pejoratives and conspiracy theories. In other words, you ain't got jack shit.
The fact that you actually take anything that Osama bin Laden or other terrorists say as the gospel is just the proof that anyone needs that you are not interested in the truth, but rather in getting your point across -- and damn the facts, or damn whose lies you have to pass off as truths.
The fact of the matter is that NOBODY can back up the conspiracy theory that we personally armed and trained bin Laden. I provided you with examples. Obviously YOU don't give a damn about the facts. You're so wrapped up in your blind hatred and you vomit fucktard comments and talking points hoping that everybody else to too fucking stupid to know any better and accept what you say is gospel truth.
Hell, I can't seem to find a liberal who can provide how Bush broke what laws. The best I've heard was essentially "because Kofi Anan said so", nevermind his illegal activities.
In short, you're full of shit so give us a break and shove it sideways. We're not all stupid little douchebag liberals who swallow your load without question.
The war was only justified by international law (Bush and Company justified it by these) by Article 51 and Article 39. Neither holds water. Hence, an illegal war.
Article 51 of the U.N. Charter provides that "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security."
They said there was a connection between Al Qaeda and Sadaam. Laughable. Anyone with a basic knowledge of either person's ideologies know they are mutually exclusive except for the fact they both hate the West. Also, WMDs. No evidence of post-1991 WMDs.
Also used to justify the war by Bush and Co, Article 39, which says provocations for war are: (1) a threat to peace, (2) a breach of peace and (3) an act of aggression.
Maybe I missed the part where Sadaam posed a credible (no "he moved the WMDs to Syria, because a former weapons inspector saw it in a dream!" conspiracy theories, please) threat to peace.
Now, I can't condense the entire way the US funded the mujahadeen across in a couple of paragraphs, but I can recommend that you read Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 by Pulitzer Prize winning writer Steve Coll.
The connection between bin Laden and the aid given to the mujahadeen has been suppressed (shades of 1984), but if you actually look for it instead of use half-truths and things taken out of context, it is there.
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There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
The weapon used on the Black Hawk was a Russian RPG. During the Cold War the Soviets invested in East African Nations building bases and training their soilders. Imagine if we had invested in the infrastructure to defeat Communism. We could have given the Somalians a chance to form their own peaceful and productive government.
here's a good source for you about Somolia: the book Black Hawk Down...it's great, tells the story of a unit there.....and what happened when one of their Black Hawk helicopters went down in the middle of Mogadishu...ironically enough my dad gave it to me to read after he finished reading it because he flied Black Hawks....
or you could watch the movie they made out of the book. it's a good source too.
you can always support the troops without believing in the war they are fighting.
I've seen the movie and read part of the book, I never got through the entire book for reasons I can't remember. I'll probably head down to the library and check it out.
If your last sentence is your signature, you can disregard what I am going to say next. Well, actually it still makes sense, but is then a little off topic, so forgive me.
But I do support the troops. I just don't support the people who are in charge of directing the troops.
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There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.
Is In the Company of Heroes by CWO4 Michael J. Durant, the pilot of the Blackhawk "Super six-four".
That's not to say Blackhawk Down was a bad book, I just like Heroes better. It's a more personal, less military-ish story.
how sad
Citizen Press Revolution
LP, I did a post recently entitled "Who Needs Government? Not Somalia." The facts are that when Somalia had government (in 1991, not twenty years of no government, BTW) life expectancy was going down. Most of the warring factions simmered down their fighting by 1995. And since then, life expectancy has increased by five years without a government being present.
Frankly, the UN's intervention by propping up exiles to take over Somalia is what has led to increased fighting.
Question the media.
Always.