I remember watching this documentary on PBS back towards the end of July and being disturbed by America's standing with the rest of the world when it comes to our justice system, specifically when dealing with minors in this case. Aside from having the honor of being one of the few nations in the world that allows for minors to be imprisoned for life without parole, we have the additional distinction of having 2,000+ juvenile inmates serving these sentences while worldwide there are only 12. For a sentence that is purported to be reserved for the worst of the worst offenders in our society, 2,225+ is unreasonably large. Despite signing the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, our government has insisted in permitting thus type of injustice to be levied against immature and impressionable youth. When I shared this with other people I got the typical response of "don't do the crime if you can't do the time." There appears to be complete disregard for circumstances that perpetuate juvenile crime or make juvenile offenders indifferent to their action through no fault of their own but the failures of their environment and the government which is supposed to act as a safety net through institutions such as social services. If you watch you'll see the triviality of the things one of the inmates worried about after he killed his abusive parents; how unaware he was of the gravity of what he had done.
It disheartens me to see where California stands in the count of juveniles serving LWOP sentences (180); a state I tend to identify with progressiveness. It's currently reconsidering its policy but it has yet to change it. Even Texas doesn't permit LWOP for juveniles. Some states have minimum age requirements to get these sentences which vary and while others have the punishment be mandatory for certain crimes. You can see the status of your state here.
I recommend that those who have not seen the documentary do so for the purpose of awareness but not necessarily coming to the conclusions that I have--that we have turned our backs on rehabilitation of not only adults but children as well. Watching the interviews of those that are profiled in the documentary it is evident that the context of the children's lives or even their involvment in the crimes (see: felony murder) is disregarded to uphold a reactionary response to a rise in juvenile crime decades ago that has since subsided.
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There is no data for my state...I think the only one.
Ya know, I honestly never knew that minors could serve life sentences. I always thought that because during the adolescent years, where kids are all screwed up, hormones pumping through the body, thoughts changing on a whim, and the whole thing of finding your identity, that minors couldn't really be held accountable. I mean sure, if once they're all mature and they still act the same as they did when they committed the crime and they show no remorse, then maybe they do deserve life, but what about second chances? What about putting hope into the next generation?
There was an episode on CSI were a little girl maybe 7-9 killed an old lady when she stole a cat from the said old lady, what would happen to her? Would she stand trial? Would she be sent to prison with all the 'big kids'?
Thanks for this post. I never knew and now I do! Thanks muchly!
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Sarcasm is my body's natural response to stupidity.
Buying used books is wrong, it's like buying used underwear, it just shouldn't be done.-Me
I agree. why are minors sentenced to jail and treated like adults when they are not considered old enough to even smoke or drink or vote? Thats messed up.
I didn't know that minors can have such punishment. Maybe it depends on what the child did. I don't really support though. I think putting kids in an environment like that can really do damage. LWOP to me is like capital punishment because it's as if you're living in hell...while you're still alive. Thanks for sharing and letting me know what's up. I wonder what kind of crime would those kids have to commit in order to be put into Prison for life.
Yeah, I wonder what kind of crime they would have to do. Well, it would have to be something heinous, something so torturous and planned that it would take an adult to reason this way. Basically, they would probably need to see that the kid thinks and plans like an adult criminal who understands what he is doing. Or it would have to be repetitive repetitive.
i didn't know that such a thing was happening. it's not talked about much and it's a good thing that you've identified it as something to get out there and inform people. it's unfair for a juvenile to do a life sentence for one single mistake that they would most likely regret and go back in time if they could. if an adolescent commits a felony is it then that they get life without parole????
I think that minors who commit crimes worthy of life sentence should be sent to a boot camp or an army training base, not necessarily the army. Then the kids will get straightened out. They will learn to obey authorities, they will learn to respect, and they will have something to do. The reason why so many kids are doing crimes is because they have nothing to do, are hanging out with the wrong crowd (often adult criminals who use kids) and get themselves in jail only to bored and get back with still nothing to do. We need to change our methods.
Thanks for the comments so far. :) I'm glad it's of interest to some people
@Miho: The girl you mentioned in the CSI scenario probably wouldn't be sentenced to life imprisonment. Some states have minimum age requirements that range from, I believe, 13-16 to qualify for the punishment. It could happen, though. There are cases where exceptions are made and you know, teens are tried as adults so it's not far fetched to believe that they could attempt to try a child as if they were an older juvenile.
@truelife90: Yes, LWOP is almost like a death sentence. One of the teens in the documentary was quoted as wishing he had received the death penalty. Capital punishment for juveniles was barely deemed impermissible by the Supreme Court in 2005. Yeah, 2005. There probably haven't been many cases of inmates being executed for crimes they committed as minors but the fact that it was still a possibility even until 2005 is alarming.
@twin07: This kind of answers truelife90's question too, some of the teens were convicted of felony murder. Another was convicted for killing his parents who were sexually, verbally, and physically abusive. States with felony murder laws enable you to be punished with a life imprisonment sentence or the death penalty. You can be a "look-out" or "get-away driver" in a robbery where someone gets killed and be convicted for felony murder. You can't be executed because you weren't involved in the murder itself but because you played a part nonetheless you can still be imprisoned for life. That's overbearing injustice from my perspective and completely indifferent to actual accountability in a crime.
If you want to read the stories of the guys covered in the documentary but don't necessarily want to watch the whole program online you can read them here.
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Gabriel
LWOP is almost like a death sentence. One of the teens in the documentary was quoted as wishing he had received the death penalty.
I don't understand why anyone would want to die instead of having a death sentence. The prisoners get fed, they get their excercise (and their t.v.) You know what's sad? we treat prisoners like dogs. feed them give them excercise, and ignore them. There MUST be a better plan. After all, its obvious that this isn't working because jails don't have any more room for people and oftentimes people are released (when they shouldn't be) to make way for new people.
Unfortunately, I can't view the map right now...which makes me rather sad. I know of one boy (I suppose he's an adult now) who's serving LWOP in my state, but in his case, I think it's well deserved. He's honestly the only juvinille I know of, though, that has received the sentance. I can't view the documentary where I am at the moment either, but I will once I'm home next week. For now I just wanted to ask you about it - I'm assuming that all of the crimes the juvinilles are in for are murder, but I know I've heard of other LWOP cases for adults that weren't for murder (in most of those cases I think it was a ridiculous sentance) so I wanted to make sure that all or at least most of the cases were for murder. I also wanted to know who some of the people profiled in the video are - I would like to read up a little on their cases until I get the chance to watch the video, just for the sake of going in with some amount of information.
Peace
Tahni
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"Tell me - if no one ever hears what you say, then why don't you shout it?" -- Floater
Why is it well deserved? And I don't think that it is unfair to give LWOP to juniors who didn't murder. Maybe they did something worse than murder, like for example torturing their captive victims, which would be worse than a quick death.
Of course things like that would call for LWOP. I was thinking more along the lines of such sentances for things like armed robbery. The boy I think is well deserving of his sentance is Kip Kinkle, the Thurston shooter. I don't know if you have heard of him, but he murdered his parents before going to Thurston highschool and killing....I think two students and injurying many others. From all I've heard and read he's a sociopath - in any case, I think that what he did is bad enough to earn LWOP. I don't know what you think might justify LWOP, but for me, personally, this certaintly does it.
Tahni
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"Tell me - if no one ever hears what you say, then why don't you shout it?" -- Floater
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Well its hard to decide who gets an LWOP because we all have all our views and opinions on who should get LWOP and who shouldn't and what crime is bad enough. Is there an official qualification for a junior to recieve LWOP? Can anyone find that out?
life imprisonment for children who have a whole life ahead of them is wrong, but at the same time, i can see where they are coming from. if you kill someone, you need to be punished accordingly and there are some teens who take advantage of them being a juvenile and commit murder before they are of age. at the same time, i think that something as severe as life in prison should vary case by case. and also, it is good to keep in mind, that they have oppurtunities to shorten their sentence. putting children in jail for life is bad, but so is cheapening the cost of death just because the killer is not 18, or another age. I also recognize your points about children being impessionable and being able to change, so i think that we shoulc create rehabilitation centers that they have to serve their sentence in until they are deemed worthy to leave by the court and return to society.
Lets face it. Some kids are just born evil. Pure evil. Do you think that jail could have stopped Hitler? No. In fact, I believe that he was in jail and it only made him worse. Thats where he wrote "my life" i am pretty sure.
I had no Idea that there were so many! And I think its horrible that minor could have life in prison without parole, after all, they are VERY young. What kind of a life do they have if they have the next 70 or so years in jail? they miss out on all of the wonderful things they life has to offer, and they never make it to college, how unfair is that? Its SO sad!
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
So true! Since they are very impressionable life in jail will only place them in violent surroundings and will make them coldhearted criminals which is terrible and doing absolutely nothing good for them.
Thanks for this gabriel! I just started writing my paper about this!
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Sarcasm is my body's natural response to stupidity.
Buying used books is wrong, it's like buying used underwear, it just shouldn't be done.-Me
I think that younger kids should be evaluated by psychologists; I'm not saying that is the answer to stop having kids without life parole at all, but I think if they are professionally seen for a duration of time the justice system could make more educated decisions. Did the child do this because he knew the full consequences, or he honestly didn't know? Has anyone heard of the case of at least six white people holding a black female for a week and torturing her? If anyone asks I'll put in the website article; one of the suspects of the tortures killed his stepfather when he was twelve. He served in juvie. Maybe if a psychologist had treated him we could have figured out that he was destined to hurt again!
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
I don't think that it would be helpful. No, something else needs to be done...like putting them in re education boot camp or something. Go ahead and post the link..I would like to see it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/us/12captive.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
I don't want to get in trouble for plagiarizing, so the 3 paragraphs I'm talking about are towards the bottom; a man and his mother involved in the case had a history of violence and he served in juvie.
I think more children that commit violent crimes need to be evaluated by a psychologist when life without parole is considered.
How would bootcamp help.
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
actually, psuchologists put those kids on drugs and many of those drugs have side efects including suicide.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I think you should do more research before just jumping out there full force. I have been on both sides of the law and on both sides of the bars. And, believe me, you don't get their for your first, second, third, or even fourth offense. And, remember, guys and gals, this is being caught at your wrong doings!!!!!! Everyone has messed up, screwed up, some just get caught, some don't, some "claim" to be good kids. Some for the most part are. I was a "good kid" from the "right side of the tracks" My younger sister did more off the 'evil' things- I just got caught more.I can't lie very well. My dad can still to this day read my face and tell if I'm lying. uck!!!! sux big time. But, just remember, I think these kids need help - but, they should have received the help way before it went this far and maybe they wouldn't be serving a LWOP sentence now!!! Have any of you ever thought about that? Laws are made for everyone to follow, if we bend a rule for sam, the george is going think it's ok they let sam by, then molly says, "well, sam and george got away with that, lets see if this works for me." That's how anarchy gets started. And, yes there are alot of young people who don't already know anarchy DOES NOT WORK!!! It was tried. That is why to this day we have a government, a constitution, and we should be glad we don't have people telling us when it is time to wipe our asses and when it is time to eat, and if we can use the phone, or whatch tv or not. Research people!!!!! Think before you write. Your on the right track, but heading the wrong direction. Turn your map around - I think it's upside down!!! ( hee hee tee hee)
Want only for yourself, because in this life, noone wants for you, but you!!!!!!
Jaicee's Mom
ps...
Please excuse any mispells... I have fribromyalgia and some weeks I go for several days with no sleep and very little muscle use and this is one of those nights......
First of all, what's an LWOP? ANd second, these juveniles aren't just being put in jail and treated like adults. No, they get to go to retraining centers instead of jail, which many choose the training centers where they get good direction and a chance to changing their life. There are more options for the 2,000+ juveniles in America then there are for the 12 in the world who only have jail and no chance for change.
http://www.progressiveu.org/node/31363
That is exactly what I was trying to tell them!!!! RESEARCH!!!!!! First, LWOP means Life With Out Parole Second Like we both say you are just straight to the point I babble especially on my second day of no sleep That was definitely NOT their first or even second offense if they recieved life w/out parole especially in Texas and especially being a minor under 15. Now, I do live in Texas I am a 35 yr old woman and have live a life full of ups and downs. And, I do know, in Texas, at 15, they can try you as an adult IF you commit a crime deemed fit to be treated like an adult if you have a record there is ALOT MORE than just saying oh my you commited a crime through you in prison for life. That is why I said FOR THE YOUNG PEOPLE YELLING HOW UNFAIR LWOP IS LET THEM KILL YOUR MOTHER, OR SOMEONE YOU LOVE, THEN BURN DOWN SOMETHING YOU LOVE, THEN TAKE YOUR FREEDOM FROM YOUR OWN SELF, GAG YOU, TIE YOU UP AND MAKE YOU WATCH WHILE YOUR CLOSEST FAMILY AND FREINDS ARE MUTILATED, SEXUALLY, BRUTALLY, AND VISIOUSLY ASSAULTED, KNOWING YOU'RE SAVED FOR LAST. Only you are left yo live to tell the story and relive the horror every single day over and over and over. You will never forget, and you WISH AND PRAY you had been killed too. NOW, Is that gory, and sick and gross enough for your twisted minds to understand why these people are locked up in Texas? We don't let sick people run free. You get your chances to clean up. But, In TEXAS WE DON'T PLAY GAMES. iF YOU DON'T LIKE THE HEAT - STAY UP NORTH!!! CAUSE IT GETS HOT DOWN HERE. OUR PRISONS HAVE NO AIR CONDITIONING. Prison is not a beauty salon or a college campus it is HELL ON EARTH Meant to make you NOT EVER WANT TO GO BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on people Grow. Political Science majors and Law school students figure why you don't know the truth - you have never been across town except to buy beer and a little smoke smoke. Grow up and realize there is a world out there past that sheltered life you have. I found out the hard way. ON MY OWN, at a young age, I paid a very very short probationary time and now I have a life I love a husband and a stepdaughter, a daughter and a step granddaughter. ANd, now an illness that I will never be able to get rid of Fibromyalgia. It eats the strenght of my muscles, tendons, and ligaments ( an easier way to describe it) So, just remember to think before you speak and whisper before you yell!!!!!!!!!!!
Want it only for you - No one will want it for you!!!!!
Jaicee's Mom
I agree about prison being a place of punishment, not fun. Did you know that prisoners are fed better than kids in school and our soldiers in Iraq? And prisoners get tv now too. And people still aren't happy. Well they haven't been to the middle east, have they? Thats a totaaally different story. Second,
OUR PRISONS HAVE NO AIR CONDITIONING.
are you serious???!!!!! That is torture? In texas? How do they survive in an orange JUMPSUIT all day? They could at least wear shorts and a tank, but that is living hell. THird
FOR THE YOUNG PEOPLE YELLING HOW UNFAIR LWOP IS LET THEM KILL YOUR MOTHER, OR SOMEONE YOU LOVE, THEN BURN DOWN SOMETHING YOU LOVE, THEN TAKE YOUR FREEDOM FROM YOUR OWN SELF, GAG YOU, TIE YOU UP AND MAKE YOU WATCH WHILE YOUR CLOSEST FAMILY AND FREINDS ARE MUTILATED, SEXUALLY, BRUTALLY, AND VISIOUSLY ASSAULTED, KNOWING YOU'RE SAVED FOR LAST.
What was that all about? I am confused and last. Who does this? Where? Please clarify this example and make it legitimate.
Lastly
Grow up and realize there is a world out there past that sheltered life you have.
I COMPLETELY AGREE
LWOP = Life Without Parole
And no, they're not going to retraining centers. One of the inmates, with the surname Medina and convicted at age15, is in a MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON. Think about what you just said; retraining centers. Why would they be in "retraining centers" if they're serving life sentences? Why would they rehabilitate inmates who are NEVER going to be released. At least bother watching the documentary or reading comprehensively.
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Gabriel
Email me personally the link - I would love to watch it. I know alot the justice in Texas, Nothing in California. And, if this is his first offense, being treated as an adult, we need to talk. Do you know him personally? Or, Socially? Please get with me on a private basis. Please. If he is one of your peeps in any form get with me, but send me the link, and I will go back to the beginning of your original post. Here, we do not have "retraining centers" as an "option" to prison. Let's talk.
tanddwalker@suddenlink.net
Jaicee's Mom
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
No, I meant taking them to boot camp retraining centers first instead of to jail where they get retrained by convicts and criminals. How on earth can jail to any good to them? Offer them rehabilitation first...then some kind of monitoring system. Its still wrong to sentence teens to live sentence forever! What kind of a life is that. Or at least give them a choice of rehabiliation plus meds or jail...or something like that.
i am saying they SHOULD bother to make a difference in their lives by retraining because prison will only make them cold hearted people. Put them in MAXIMUM SECURITY retraining centers then.
In the summer the do get to tie the jumpers around the waist in the yards BUT Like I said It is meant to be hell on earth I am sorry I scared you I looked at your profile and I did not realize you were so young. You are so smart and you talk like a grown person better than thses young college people on this board - The torment was a scenario of a reason to put someone considered Juvenile in our texas prison system instaed of the juvenile system that is what I was doing. It has happened before. It is not a thing that is something that would happen alot or anything but the way some of these people think on here I wonder how they graduated High school. But, My stepdaughter teaches 7th grade and I am learning you don't have to think you only have to listen and remember. Back when...lol.. I was in school, we really had to know whet we studied. You are a deep person and stay smart you are going to be what you set out to be, because you actaully read!!!! lol..lol Good luck!!!
Jaicee's Mom
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Okay, you obviously don't talk like an adult. If you did then half of what you said would at least be comprehensible instead of rambling nonsense. To sum it up this is what your nonsense sounded like "do get to tie the jumpers around the waist in the yards ...BUT Like I said It is meant to be hell on earth...The torment was a scenario of a reason to put someone considered Juvenile in our texas prison system instaed of the juvenile system that is what I was doing...I wonder how they graduated High school...My stepdaughter teaches 7th grade and I am learning you don't have to think you only have to listen and remember."
Yeah I also actually read and what on earth does a jumper around the waist "in the yards" mean? Oh and you sound VERY intelligent when you said " the torment was a scenario of a reason"...okay...what on earth does your stepdaughter have to do with jail and yards that are hell on earth? And I wonder how you graduated high school if you don't have to think...but to "listen and remember". Have you actually gone to school?Take a few writing classes please. It would help to just understand what you are TRYING to say.
I looked at that program - and you are full of it. You dad being an alcoholic is not a reason to murder, rob, steal, none of it. YES, They are juveniles and YOU THINK they need a second chance - But, Gabriel, that show is like everything else - politics. AND, opinions!!! Let me tell you - here in Texas things are different we have the death penalty. The young "kid" Medina everybody ratted on him He was the "leader" and if I am saying IF there was enough evidence and all that he would possibly have gotten the death penalty. NOW LISTEN FIRST - IT IS ALOT HARDER TO BE TRIED AS AN ADULT IN TEXAS- THAN IN THOSE STATES. And, from experience, a court appointed attorney no matter what anybody tells you they don't work as hard for you as a POCKET PAID attorney. That you can take to the bank. That's a promise you can give to your booky babe. You want to be a lawyer. That show will let your family know if you will be a rich lawyer or a poor trying to save the world one person at a time - you can't do it ALONE. That law will have to be abolished and I think it's going to be around for a very long time. Maybe some day you can make a liar out of me and I will see you on CNN someday - That's an awesome dream -and Like I always close with - it goes for you to:
Want it only for you - No one else will want it for you.
Of course I had to clean it up for this web site, good luck with school, but, I can't help those kids. They are guilty. You have to change the state laws. Texas is tougher, just be glad they aren't here. And, for the young lady I scared to death up above, in Texas we have white jumpers stay cooler. And, Huntsville, in the medic facility has air, and in Rusk, the MENTAL fac. they have air, but on the work yards NO AIR, Like I said, THEY don't want you back,And I DON"T want you back IT's TAX PAYERS who PAY for PRISONERS TAXES TAX MONEY COME ON GUYS LETS RESEARCH!!!!! i AM SOOOO GLAD I AM NOT YOUR TEACHERS OR PROFESSORS UNDER DISGUISE WE'D HAVE TO GET SO FAILING GRADES GOING HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good night, Ya'll!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it's 12:37am central time in TEXAS what time is it where you are?
See ya tomorrow.....
Jaicee's Mom
The United States is shamefully the only country in the world that is imposing life without parole sentences on children. We desperately need to organize our communities to end this deplorable human rights violation.
An example of how wrong this situation can be is detailed on the web site www.4Efren.com. An online petition to support the case of Efren Paredes, Jr., a 15-year-old who was wrongly convicted and sentenced to three life sentences is available online as well at www.petitionspot.com/petitions/4Efren.
We can help contribute to the collective voice of conscience by educating others about this practice.