The following "New Testament" bible verse should finally put the issue of prayer in public schools to rest. It's pretty straight forward that true Christians should not and would not promote prayer in public at all, much less in public schools.
Matthew Chapter 6: 5-6 says:
5-"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. 6-But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
I wonder if the people who demand that prayer be allowed in public schools, football games, etc...have ever read this part of the bible. I bet they have, but they don't care as long as the message of Christianity is delivered to the masses by any means possible.
The reason I posted this is because I was thinking of a Unitarian Universalist minister who told me and a group of others one Sunday that he wasn't allowed to give a prayer one day (for some event that I don't remember) because of his faith, but it was ok for the Christian to do so. I was shocked too, but I shouldn't have been.
Tabias-
That's actually pretty amazing. I think it's funny that people think praying in school, or posting the Ten Commandments will solve the moral culture of High School students (this usually happens when there is a school shooting of some sort).
As if some kid is going to go to school with a shotgun, read the part of the Ten Commandments that says, "Thou shall not kill," and then reason with himself, "Oooooh, thou shall NOT kill, why didn't I think of that?..." and go home.
The left makes as ridiculous of an argument, which is banning guns. Y'know, because it's not human nature that makes us kill people, it's guns.
Wow,
How come there's only one response to this post!
Maybe because so many people who are religious rely heavily on the Bible for their arguements and now it is being used against their position on this?
I kind of want to hear a good reason for people NEEDING prayer in public.
and the quote "Our country was founded on religious/Christain views" is still not a good reason to say that we need prayer at a football game...
now maybe if our country was founded on football..and Christianity or something crazy like that... then sure.
actually, no... even then i'd be like... wtf.
so who's up for a debate on this one?
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
&
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the crowd"
"Matthew Chapter 6: 5-6 says:
5-"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. 6-But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. "
This is makes a very valid point. We are to pray privately. But this is also talking about those who are trying to make others believe that they are better than they are because they are praying and because they are praying they are more rightious than everyone who is not praying.
Because we live in a free country, we should be able to pray where ever and when ever we want. This doesn't just go for Christianity, it goes for every religion out there. It also gives everyone the right not to pray if they don't want to. This is where the argument gets tricky, if someone wants to pray or a group of people want to pray they have that right to because we live in a free courntry; however, because prayer in public places is not allowed it is infringing on our rights as US citizens. At the same time anyone who doesn't want to pray doesn't have to; however, encountering a group of people praying may be uncomfortable for them and they have the right not to feel uncomfortable when they go out in public. There really is no right answer because either way you go the rights of individuals are being infringed on.
So "why do we need to have prayer at a football game?" Teams sometimes take a knee before a game to ask God to keep them safe and play their hardest. Fans sometimes say a prayer asking God to bless all the players and give them the strength to play their hardest and to keep them safe. Is it absolutly necessary to have prayer at events like football games? No. Is it absolutly necessary to not have prayer at events like these? No. It should be up to each individual whether or not they want to pray. If no one makes a big deal about it, it won't be a big deal
they have the right not to feel uncomfortable when they go out in public.
Actually we don't have that right. But I agree with the rest of what you said.
I'm gonna write a nonsensical book and leave it in a cave. 500 years later people will worship me
My issue with this whole thing is that prayer does NOT have to be verbal. I'd like to think that an omnipotent god can hear your inner prayers-- because we have separation of church and state, not allowing VERBAL prayer seems fairly logical. But the government cannot control your mind. So if you wanna pray in school, you go ahead- close your eyes, open your heart, direct your mind to god, all that stuff.
...Did that even make sense?
It makes perfect sense. I agree that the government cannot control your mind and you can pray by yourself. Part of being religious (at least in my opinion) is praying as a group. I don't see why if a group of people want to pray together they shouldn't be allowed to pray together as long as they do it in a way that is not disturbing the people around them.
kaufer01: "this is also talking about those who are trying to make others believe that they are better than they are because they are praying and because they are praying they are more righteous than everyone who is not praying."
Too many "they are" for me, I could hardly keep up with you, but I think I get what you're trying to say. Although a good attempt at an interpretation, but I still don't agree. Prayer should be in private. Jesus didn't pray in public, so you shouldn't either. Why do something that not only offends the people around you, but it also goes against your "savior"?
kaufer01: "Because we live in a free country, we should be able to pray where ever and when ever we want."
I agree, but not at the expense of offending others. This might have been ok 50 years ago, but people are getting tired of having Christianity pushed down their throats and they just want to live in peace. And that means; they don't want your religion pushed on them at every possible opportunity. I'm Wiccan and I work at the Air Force Academy, but I don't use my power so that I can get up on a platform and try to convert the Cadets to Wicca, nor do I pray to my Deity in front of my co-workers. It's just not professional and it would offend them.
kaufer01: "if someone wants to pray or a group of people want to pray they have that right to because we live in a free country; however, because prayer in public places is not allowed it is infringing on our rights as US citizens. At the same time anyone who doesn't want to pray doesn't have to; however, encountering a group of people praying may be uncomfortable for them and they have the right not to feel uncomfortable when they go out in public. There really is no right answer because either way you go the rights of individuals are being infringed on."
You are wrong. There is a right way to handle this situation and that is to not pray in public. And you know what I'm talking about. Sure, if I don't want to pray if I see a group of people praying at the park then I don't have to (and that is all good), but if my son is at school and the class is told to bow their heads in prayer and the teacher begins praying to "God", then my son is going to feel left out, offended, and then he's going to come tell me. And that is when all hell is going to break lose.
kaufer01: "So "why do we need to have prayer at a football game?" Teams sometimes take a knee before a game to ask God to keep them safe and play their hardest. Fans sometimes say a prayer asking God to bless all the players and give them the strength to play their hardest and to keep them safe. Is it absolutely necessary to have prayer at events like football games? No. Is it absolutely necessary to not have prayer at events like these? No. It should be up to each individual whether or not they want to pray. If no one makes a big deal about it, it won't be a big deal"
I agree, but when the prayer to God is said over the intercom at the event or the coach says to the team to bow their heads and then begins praying to "God", then that is when the line has been crossed.
Tabias-
I never said or implied that the prayer should be something people are made to do. In fact that is exactly opposite of what I was getting at. If people want to pray in a group these people should be able to. I am not saying that it is right for a teacher to ask the class to pray. But I am saying that if students chose to get together to pray before class they should be allowed too.
When I was in high school (and yes I went to a public high school) we were allowed to have a prayer group in the morning before school started. A group of about 30 of us would get together and pray before we would head off to homeroom. Everyone in the school was invited and no one was forced. There would be a few times when some of us would get together during our lunch periods and pray. We didn't force anyone and we didn't make it a big deal. No one had any problems with this, we even had a few of our teachers join us on occation.
My point is that if people want to pray let them pray, it isn't harming anyone. I don't agree with people being forced to partake or having a teacher ask his or her class to pray or having a prayer said over the intercom. But what is the problem with extending an invitation to everyone and leaving it up to them to decide whether or not they join in. They do not need to feel left out or offended because they are being given the option. It could be just as offending to someone who is religious to not be able to pray as it is for someone who is not religious being around people who are praying.
The world is full of offensive things. There will never be a solution that everyone will be satisfied with and not offended by.
I don't feel the need to fully eliminate prayer in public places, such as schools. As part of the classroom - no a teacher should not ask his or her class to pray, but extending an offer? I don't see the harm in that.
I think the world would end if people didn't pray together in groups...out loud...
especially in public.
"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
I don't think prayer should be apart of the public school systems. I do not think that it should be mandatory for a student to pray whenever it is that they would choose.
I believe that if a student wants to pray then they should be allowed to, but that if they do decide to pray then they don't try and make other people do it with them or cause disturbances.
I think religion should be kept out of public schools.
People don't only have freedom of religion, but also freedom FROM religion.
To me that is very important.