While I understand that it is not illegal to burn the flag of the United States, as protected by the Constitution, I have to admit that I get a little burned up whenever I see protesters burning the flag.
It just seems to me that they are going about their protests in the wrong way by being disrespectful to the symbol that would give them their Freedom of Speech. Perhaps I read too far into things? I don't know, that's possible. But to me, burning the symbol of something as strong as the United States flag symbolizes more than just an expression of protest against certain things. It goes beyond using your free speech to protest an issue and attempts to strike at the heart of the nation.
I hate that.
So, earlier today, some neighbors and I were talking about this very thing. 3 of us were against burning the flag, and the other 3 had no problems with it. This discussion was becoming somewhat heated when one of the opposing side asked me, "How can you call burning the flag desecrating the flag, but then allow people to wear the flag on their boxer shorts?"
This question stumped me. He was right, I've never heard anyone complain about reshaping the flag into all sorts of shapes and sizes for clothing and decorations. Sometimes they aren't even the flag's colors anymore. I saw a bumper sticker not too long ago with the Stars and Stripes in the shape of a pair of lips reading "Kiss This". I saw another that read something pro-American, but the Stars and Stripes were the greens and browns of camoflauge.
Of course, my immediate reaction was that the people who reshape the flag into clothing, such as boxers, are in their own way trying to show support for the United States. But is it really necessary to show support through your underwear? And, if they wanted to show support, why not just raise the flag?
Does it seem hypocritical that many conservatives condemn burning the flag but have no problem with other forms of desecration? Should the flag be used as a symbol for marketing reasons?
I think that burning the flag is an outright disrespect to what this conutry stands for. Underwear is just a personal vendetta.
Conformity is the jailor of freedom and the enemy of growth!~JFK
Burn it, stomp it, wave it, salute it, whatever. It is just a symbol. People get too connected to their symbols and start forgetting what they mean. Does the pledge of allegiance mention any of the ideas that our country claims to stand for? No. It is a mindless pledge to a symbol with no thought to what that symbol truly means.
If someone is burning a flag they have serious issues and serious anger, and you should be listening to it, not being outraged that they did it. THis country isn't about, or shouldn't be, about respecting symbols, it should be about respecying ideas. Burning the flag is perfectly respectful of the IDEA of free speech, and this country is only as good as its adherence to the ideas that we deem to be good.
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken," and waving a flag does not make you a patriot.
Res ipsa loquitur.
memor mori, mahalo.
I agree, I mean we put so much effort into this symbol, we even make our kids memorize the pledge of allegiance, but i bet about 80 percent of them don't even know what it means.
My personal thing about flag burning is that oftentimes when it's done in protest, it's simply a way for that particular group to draw attention to themselves, since flag burning in itself is such a controversial topic, and it makes people stop and listen to their cause because they're wondering why someone would burn a flag.
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Should some study abroad destinations be "off limits?"
...in its explanation of why the act of flag burning remains a legal expression...
TEXAS v. JOHNSON (1989)
If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable. We have not recognized an exception to this principle even where our flag has been involved....In short, nothing in our precedents suggests that a State may foster its own view of the flag by prohibiting expressive conduct relating to it.
...
There is, moreover, no indication -- either in the text of the Constitution or in our cases interpreting it -- that a separate juridical category exists for the American flag alone. Indeed, we would not be surprised to learn that the persons who framed our Constitution and wrote the Amendment that we now construe were not known for their reverence for the Union Jack. The First Amendment does not guarantee that other concepts virtually sacred to our Nation as a whole -- such as the principle that discrimination on the basis of race is odious and destructive -- will go unquestioned in the market-place of ideas.We decline, therefore, to create for the flag an exception to the joust of principles protected by the First Amendment.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/texasvjohnson.html
percivale
Burning the flag can be far more patriotic than flying the flag. It's all about intention. People seem to forget that there is a difference between a country and a government. The government is merely an entity, a company, an organization. They're supposed to perform certain tasks for the country. But instead, they've taken the role as what the country IS. The United States of America is NOT the United States Government. It shows a laziness and ignorance for folks to think protesting the government is unpatriotic, because it's FAR MORE patriotic to stand up against something that you think is wrong than to accuse anyone who does so of being traitors or being disrespectful.
-Tim
"It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true." -Avett Bros.
I don't particularly care for flag desecration, but it's certainly not something people should be arrested/cited for.
Bill Hicks had my favorite take on flag burning:
-"Hey buddy, my daddy died in Korea for that flag."
-"Hey what do you know, mine was made in Korea!"
...Or something of that sort.
"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."
- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Hmm. You see, I'm a canadian and for the many people that don't know; we're a very apathetic country, ignoring our problems, hoping they'll go away. I know for a fact that if I went into my school, jumped onto the cafeteria table and started burning the canadian flag no one would think twice about it and probably laugh. Now if I jumped on the table and burnt the canadian flag and began screaming "anarchy!" then I'd get in trouble. I believe (along with most of my country) that it really doesn't matter if someone is burning the flag, hell! They can burn down their house if they feel so inclined!
Now if they were burning the flag with reasons behind it saying that Canada should fall ... I probably wouldn't care either. It would only upset me if that person is either A) in government or B) is considerably wise, not just one of those crack jobs that go around the city yelling “Hail Hitler”. However that probably shows one of the many differences between our countries, eh?
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Even at the young age of fourteen I already suffer from what I call severe C.A.D. (Compulsive Analytic Disorder)
A lot of times, when protesters burn the flag, it's supposed to represent the Government of America. And in my eyes at least, that is not America it self. The government being the people who are fucking it up at the time (because lets face it, they tend to do a lot more fucking up than fixing), and that's usually what's being protested.
I'm sure I could have put this into prettier words, but it escapes me at the moment. I hope it makes sense lol.
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"So stuff that in your pipe and smoke it!"
When I was in Boy Scouts, we burned the american flag as a way to show respect to the ideals and truths it represents and that we as a nation uphold. It was always done at night, with only the campfire as our light. We were always very reverent and somber, for we somehow knew that what we were doing was extremely significant. When done appropriately, flag burning is the most respectful anyone could get towards our country. What these people do is a disgrace to the ideals we uphold.
Whisper on a scream doesn't change a thing. - Kenny Wayne Sheppard Band
That's different.
It's called "Retiring a flag" and it's a way to put to rest old, tired, ragged flags, because it's considered disrespectful to fly flags that are battered.
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"So stuff that in your pipe and smoke it!"
I am saying that retiring a flag is the only way it should be burned. Protesters disgrace it by burning it unneccessarily and uncerimoniously.
Whisper on a scream doesn't change a thing. - Kenny Wayne Sheppard Band
...it's a flag. I remember being told in grade school that if there was a fire somebody would have to grab the flag before they got out. Now really, if there's a fire in the building and people have to get out as soon as possible, what's the sense in taking what could be life-saving time to stay behind for a piece of cloth?
Again, I don't care what the flag symbolizes, because that's all the flag is: a symbol. I'm more concerned with what lawmakers are doing to the country and the values it represents than what a couple people are doing to what is now its most overexposed representation.
"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."
- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
And that sentiment is an entirely un-American one. Way to not have respect for your country.
-Tim
"It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true." -Avett Bros.
I guess feeling good about an inanimate object trumps concern over things that actually matter. I should be hung for sedition, shouldn't I? Or blacklisted, at least?
"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."
- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
You're mistaken. My reply is to the same post you were replying to. If I had been replying to your post, mine would have been indented a bit more. :)
-Tim
"It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true." -Avett Bros.
Of course! You're so right. My bad.
"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."
- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
And if you thought the War in Iraq is wrong, I could call you un-American. Don't say that I don't respect this country for not agreeing with every facet it supports.
Whisper on a scream doesn't change a thing. - Kenny Wayne Sheppard Band
No you couldn't actually. You seem to have a big problem distinguishing between the country and the government. The government is merely an organization that is SUPPOSED to do certain things for the country. If that entity makes a mistake or a decision with which I do not agree, it's not the principles of the country I am disagreeing with. Now, if I said someone had no right to believe in the war, THAT would be un-American.
I say you don't respect this country because you don't respect the idea of freedom and differing opinion. And I'd hardly say the country "supports" flag burning as you imply, otherwise this would be a non-issue.
-Tim
"It costs nothing to be honest, loyal, and true." -Avett Bros.
It all depends on what the flag represents to each individual. One might think burning the flag is wrong because it represents the entire country and all its citizens. A flag burner might thing it is justified because to them, the flag represents the government. Still another might think the flag represents the ideals the US was founded upon and burns the flag because they feel people have forgotten those ideals. A flag itself has no meaning at all. Each person assigns individual meaning to it. Therefore flag burning cannot be deemed right or wrong.
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Denken. Nicht lesen.
Nicely put.
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"So stuff that in your pipe and smoke it!"