I just signed up for this site a couple hours ago and have found myself reading through tons of religious discussions. The thing I don’t understand is debating religion. It’s one of those things that neither side will ever win. The religious know this, the anti-theist knows that. I don’t think we can brainwash or convert someone from one side to believe the other.
The odd thing is, as I type this I’m sure I’m going to cross another religious discussion/question/debate on here and of course I’ll add my opinion to it, just like many others will. I know there is no point to arguing religion, but I’m still drawn to it like it's crack! Am I the only one?
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No, I think that the reason we need to respond is because we all feel we are right. and when you feel you are right you feel the need to prove you are right. Then the arguments follow. Even though, both sides feel they are right, never can prove conclusively that the other is wrong, hence the never ending battle.
I agree. For once I can tell someone on here "you're right".
Originally posted by rushelle:
"It’s one of those things that neither side will ever win. The religious know this, the anti-theist knows that. I don’t think we can brainwash or convert someone from one side to believe the other."
You seem to have created a false dichotomy here, rushelle.
The "sides" are not often reflected by the "religious" vs "anti"-theists.
Atheists are not "anti"-theist, by default.
I know that I am not. I have many friends and family who are anywhere from pantheist to deist to catholic to fundamentalist southern baptist.
I think that continued debate is important in a secular society, especially where life and liberty and public policy are concerned.
For me, it isn't about "winning", it is more about continued expression and clarification of concepts. Often atheists are mischaracterized in the pulpit and in public which requires simple refutation in order for principle and honesty to prevail.
In my view, it takes action and continued discussion in order to stay informed.
My hope is that all people from all worldviews can just be good to one another.
Steve
the-humanist@hotmail.com
Even though I fall into that category of being labeled as an anti-theist, you're right, it isn't often the case that it’s "religious" vs. "anti-theist". Not all atheists are anti and I know not all atheist care to take "sides".
But from the posts and comments that I've seen prior to the blog post I wrote, “For and Against Religion�?, it seemed like a complete waste of time. For example, there was a post called "Fuck God", which I highly doubt is about staying informed, but rather to belittle another's view. The arguments or facts, whatever you want to call it seem to go nowhere; it's like they're beating a dead horse, move on to the cow already =).
"I think that continued debate is important in a secular society, especially where life and liberty and public policy are concerned." Yes, debate is important in the sense that we need to come to an agreement on where religion or the neutrality of religion in our laws and policies stand, but when we're using theology as facts and the debate just goes in circles in a blog, what's the point in that?
Religion is one thing that will be a conflict from now until the end of the world. Nothing will ever change that. Personally, I'm an agnostic and I like to hear other people's opinion and viewpoints. But I don't think that anyone is "right". What is right depends on what you personally believe. Trying to push your beliefs on others will never work. Just be happy with what you believe, for you that is the "right" way.
I think debate about religion is good because it helps challenge people's thinking, and opens it up for discussion. I agree that 'fuck god' is not a good post, but I do not think it is good based on that the person is using no logic to back up his argument. And sometimes, you can slightly change someone's thinking. Granted, I don't mean changing a hardcore evangelical Christian to a hard-core atheist, - that would be impossible. You can challenge someone's assuptions and cause them to see their own hypocrisy. I have actually been able to do it. At a MySpace Korn message board, this guy named Luke came on talking about how people were going to hell if they didn't accept Jesus. People tried to show how illogical it was, but he always responded with bible verse. He stated that the only true source was the bible. So I then looked over his posts, and corrected him on some important mistakes that he made. He actually said accidentally that Mary was married when she got pregnant. I remember that, after correcting him, he only made an embarassed response and did not return. I had made an effect on him. He realized that he really did not know as much as he thought he did. So it is possible to change people's thinking, but it is not possible to change someone's religion.
Also, debating religion also sheds light about different religions and clears up misconceptions. I think, in today's society, people are so afraid to talk about religion that it never gets discussed. And things need to be discussed out in the open, for how else can things still continue to progress? Religion and faith are not a static thing, and they must constantly stay in line with the evolution and changes of its believers. The only way for a faith to continue to evolve is to use debate.
You don't think you can convert anyone? Maybe you personally can't, but conversions happen all the time. A part of my Catholic faith is evangelization. It's an integral aspect because we know that our faith is the truth and we try to spread the Good News to as many people as possible.