My Thoughts On Illegal Immigrants and Non English Speaking Citizens Part 2

You bring up several valid points but you have failed to address several things:
- Not all illegal immigrants are Hispanic, and there is the generalization that they are. There are Chinese illegals, Irish illegals, Canadian illegals... it just so happens that this immigration wave is largely hispanic. So when you talk about illegal immigration, you should also refer to these groups. I'm glad you reformed your opinions on immigration in general, because this country was FOUNDED on immigration. (There have been generally six BIG immigration waves in American history: colonial times, then the 1830s with the German and Irish, the Reconstruction and then Pre WWI with eastern Europeans, post WWII with all different people escaping from communism, and now we have the Hispanics. Throughout all these waves, much of the same views have been circulating, adjusted as needed to the various ethnic groups.)
- The vast vast majority of the illegal Hispanics are hardworking people, trying to let their family survive and escape the horrible conditions of their native countries. I know a group of illegals that walked all the way from El Salvador to the border, and they are extremely nice and they get their work done.
- Telling people to just not hire illegals is easier said than done. The Simpson-Mezzoli Act tried to do just that, and is largely ineffective.
- Illegals form a large base for our economy: would you go out and do the hard manual labor they do? Do you know anyone who would? If you did, you'd probably like to get paid a LOT more for it, too, which would make the prices on agricultural goods rise (I'm mostly referring to California, since that is where I live and that's a BIG thing for our State and National economy), which means the average spending power would decrease. It could lead to inflation, and a rise in the CPI.
- Mass deportation would ecourage racism and any Hispanic walking down the street, illegal or not, would probably be singled out, have his green card demanded, etcetera. For the citizens and legals, that's unfair and it violates on their rights. It harkens back to the Jews required to wear a Star of David and carry their papers with them everywhere they went in Nazi Germany.

Those are my arguments against you. Thank you for sharing your views,
Chrissa

---

“You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.” - Pink Floyd

Hi there, Ruby. You seemed to have truly researched the area of immigration, with all your facts and figures, percentages, and this and that's. But you seem to be desensitized from the emotional aspect of legal immigrants.

You said, "Illegals should be deported back to wherever they came from whether it was Mexico or Asia or Europe"...
Ruby, do you really think it was necessary to word it the way you did... "wherever they came from.."....simply saying "other continent" would suffice, rather than naming one country and two continents.....sort of a target don't you think? What about the Middle East... but that's besides the point...

Also, don't you think it's a little hypocritical for you to share this idea that previously you thought immigration in its entirety is wrong...now either you're trying to be politically correct so therefore you accept legal immigration for what it is because you have no choice, or you still have that underlying thought that immigration shouldn't be allowed... what's so hypocritical? Don't tell me you were a part of the masses that first found America...Now unless you have some tribal blood in you, you my friend, are just as much of an immigrant here than any of us other natural born American citizens. Besides, I myself did some research as well, so I don't just ramble on...and it seems that my sources report that you, your genealogy with the last name Collins means you are of Scottish descent....So perhaps you were born there, assumign that is your geneology--or wherever for that matter-- suppose you were born in a different country, with a not so bright future.....you would want to come to America right (the land of unlimited opportunities)? It's a matter of location, where you happened to have been born...it's not like you have control of your fate when you're born right?

Which brings me to something else you said,
"I know how to count in Spanish and I know a few of the simpler words and phrases"
Maybe that's because the schools offered here in the U.S. teach the language...or perhaps the people around you speak that language....but do you really think people of different countries, continents are supplied with the same amount of resources that teach them the English language...or do you truly suppose that all the way in a country such as Zimbabwe that Americans are a prevalent group of people living there and that the people born there catch on to the English language?? Again, it's all about location.

"they can't even understand a dollar amount when they are buying something at the store"...again, same idea....people only know as far as they've been accustomed to, or rather, that they can only familiarize with certain things if they've been introduced to it...how can a person recognizing the peso know what the American dollar is?....It's the same concept ...if you went to another country, say Armenia...how would you know what the 'dram' is....or that it's Armenian currency? You wouldn't right? So don't expect much from people who struggle to escape from their country due to detrimental situations and expect them to all of a sudden be informed of American currency.

And your, "Then I see all thses people saying "well they are putting their family first and yada yada." Ok so easy conclusion. Buy the books and tapes and learn AS A FAMILY how to speak English"

Well okay, let's look at this scenario. You are a father from a different country, legally coming to America, leaving your family behind temporarily so you can get a job. So what do you do? Do you subscribe to a "hooked on phonics" book to take the time to learn English, or you use the precious time and money you have to do the hard labor most Americans won't do...that's right....2 concepts, Ruby: 1. Immigrants can't buy the books and tapes and learn as a family because chances are, they don't have the money, they're not together as a family yet, or they don't have the time because they're too busy providing food on the table and a simple roof over their heads.... and 2. legal immigrants are assets to the U.S. because Americans pretty much shun any unskilled labor that requires them to get down and dirty...I made sure to research that aspect as well...turns out Reuters reports that up to 70 percent of U.S. farm workers are estimated to be legal immigrants, totaling about 500,000 people...that's 500,000 immigrants slaving over cheap labor. That accounts for those immigrants who are willing to clean hotel rooms, bus tables, pick fruits and vegetables, and landscape, so that you can have a roof over your head and undergo this blogging experience at Uprogressive.

So in conclusion Ruby, I am a nice person. No, that's not my sole conclusion, but I should say that I'm a very nice person. But, I'm a sincere person that feels that it is necessary to educate those that see facts and figures rather than something a little deeper. People need to conceptualize the situations others are in before bashing about why this and that is bad. I agree though, illegal activity isn't the best, but cut some slack for those legal immigrants here that are barely making enough money to supply for their families, which may or may not be back home facing other fatal things such as potential death, famine, and disease. My true point in all this...Perhaps what I said may have changed your opinion, or may have not, but I hope that it makes you a little more open minded. I'm not saying I'm right, but I know I'm not wrong. Contradiction? Your reasoning was much like that. Take care Ruby, and all of this was a genuine intent to voice my opinion on something I didn't think I felt so deep about...until I read your blog and decided to refrain from my Philosophy paper.

Btw, I'm a natural born citizen.

~Romina.

well everyone has their own opinion.. seems that everyone responding to me beleives I am wrong or moralless.. but whatever. I still think illegal immigration is wrong and I still think its bullshit that we need to knwo spanish and that they dont learn english.
Never once did I only point towards Hispanics being the problem either. I mentioned asians; i mentioned Europeans.
Yes I am of Scottish decent, but that doesn't mean I'm not American either. I was born here, my parents were born here, my grandparents were born here as well as my great grandparents. No I don't know how far back it went, but I honestly don't care.

I am a natural born citizen- in fact my mother's family has been in American since 1636 (immigrants from England), and my father's since 1754 (Scottish immigrants). English is the dominant language of the United States, but that doesn't mean that we need to limit our language learning abilities. I have learned Spanish, and become highly proficient in speaking it (and I'm only 16); in 3 years I have pretty much conquered the language, and before I started learning, I didn't even know how to count to 20. BUT, because my teacher spoke Spanish and English, the learning process was much more fluid, and I immediately caught on. We cannot stand by and pout about people from Mexico or Europe or wherever, that do not know English, and then do nothing ourselves to help them. If I dropped you in the middle of Saudi Arabia, do you think you could learn the language immediately, especially if everyone snubbed you and declined to help? These immigrants need assistance in learning the language. China is fast becoming the largest English speaking nation in the world; the U.S. is the ONLY industrialized nation without a majority of bilingual citizens. Isolation is dangerous for foreign policy and renders us incompassionate for other cultures. Let's stop whining about these "terrible" immigrants' (who work at all of the jobs Americans won't) inability to speak our language, and help ourselves and them by learning little Spanish, or Chinese, or any language, to help speed up their process of integration. Improved communication means improved relations.

and thats just how it is. I dont care how much you people sit there and comment me and try to get points across. i still feel its not right for us to have to learn their language. and they dont just get dropped off here.

Alot of the people that respond to blogs come across way too angry and pent up. I agree that illegal is illegal and citing that there are more than just hispanic illegal immigrants doesn't solve the problem because they seem to be the only illegals on the news marching for rights when they aren't actually citizens. Most illegal aliens are kinda quite being that they are taking refuge illegally amongst other things. Does that make them better no, but it does make them less of a target. I don't think your heartless and I think that bringing up the point that most people in this country that came here were illegal is pointless cause that was then and this is now and as long as laws have been in place they should be followed. If things are bad where you are you have the right to leave and you also have the responsibilty to LEGALLY take up residence wherever you decide.

Love is Supreme,

L. Archelle

so you did some reasearch,,, but i still disagree with you on the fact of jobs for illegals...

no one is taking any ones job...

field jobs, factory jobs, fast food... you name it.. they've been around for a long time... but only few people are willing to work in them..

i understand where your coming from ... but can you imagine how much more lettuce and strawberries would be if other people picked them for the salary they pay??????
=]

Food for thought...My Great-grand parents came here from Portugal. They learned the language, became citizens, owned and operated milk dairy's that are still running today. Became predominate members of society.
I think that if my family can do it then why can't other immigrants?
My grandmother and I were talking about this the other day. She told me that her cousins were in the process of becoming American citizens so they learned English. For some reason unknown to me they ended up becoming Canadians instead. When they moved from Portugal to Canada the place they ended up required they learn French to get a job, a bank account, pretty much anything they would do within the city. If America would stand up and say HAY WAIT A MINUTE, we are not going to placate you, you need to learn our language in order to be a part of our society. I think the people of this country would be more tolerant of the immigrant situation.

There is no reason why immigrants should not learn English. I personally think we should get away from our current family reunification based system which drives almost half of our legal immigration. There is no reason that we should be giving immigration preferences to an immigrant's parent whose working life is behind them and who will almost immediately go on Social Security and other taxpayer funded programs.

Instead we should move towards an objective skills based system that rewards immigrants with citizenship who can hit the ground running and contribute to our treasury. I'd give points for those who speak English, those who were young and able bodies with a long working career in front of them, points for those with capital that could be used to open businesses and create jobs and points for educational attainment. Only those with enough points would get in.

This would go along ways towards fixing your problem with English and would fix many of the other objections that Americans have with immigrants too.

Of course illegal immigration needs to be stopped both at the border and in the workplace. Its illegal and its intolerable that are laws are being disrespected on such a massive scale. We are making some progress at the borders and illegal crossings seem to be declining as a result of increased Border Patrol manpower and also construction of the fence. It turns out, contrary to the assertions of the left, that fences do work. Our efforts in the workplace have been stepped up but a lot more needs to be done to punish employers who violate our employment laws. When the jobs dry up the illegals will self-deport for the same reason they came. Because without jobs they will need to leave in order to have a better life. This approach is called "attrition through enforcement". It won't fix the problem overnight but it took a long time for it to get this bad too.

Don't pay much attention to the ridiculous mantra that illegal are only doing jobs that Americans won't do. We live in a free market economy where the labor market is controlled by the laws of supply and demand. In a free market there is no such thing as a labor shortage because the market will rapidly adjust with a higher equilibrium price (or substitute capital for labor) and the problem will be solved. The only shortage we have in America is a shortage of honest employers willing to pay living wages rather than pocketing fat profits resulting from illegally hiring people at sub-standard wages.

Stick to your guns. If you don't like what is going on, join www.numbersusa.com and participate in their grassroots activism that has successfully blocked the last several amnesties. It is easy and free and you will be on the winning team. Contrary to the responses you are getting here, the vast majority of Americans want our laws enforced and illegal immigration stopped.

Any illegal action is usually flagged as wrong and well there is a big chance that it is "wrong," but upon who's standards. Living in a dead end country would motivate many to move away in search of a better lifestyle. Disregarding illegality and driven more on survival, they move away and do find themselves better off; unfortunately many may stumble upon selfish people. I agree that some may not make BIG efforts to fit into the US culture, but I believe that's OK, individualism and diversity is what this country praises.