I know this is a shocking title for an entry, but it is the truth. No, I did not walk into a bank with a loaded gun and shoot someone. No, I did not hit a pedestrian as I was driving in a drunken stupor. No, I did not stab someone in a fit of rage. No, what I have done is so much worse. Because of my innate ablility to sin, I was one who drove a nail into the perfect and sinless flesh of my Saviour. And every time I sin, it is as if I am standing before that Cross once again, mocking and watching in scorn as Jesus Christ hangs dying. This may all sound very depressing and in a sense it is; it brings an ache to my heart that by my sin, I am deeply hurting the One who came to save me from my own unrighteaousness. But this depression turns to joy when I think of the sacrifice that Jesus was willing to become in order that I may have a joyous reunion someday with Him in heaven.
You want to talk about perfect love; well I have found it! Perfect love means that even when I mess up, Jesus is willing to forgive (over and over and over again!) Perfect love means that even though I break His heart with my waywardness, He is still willing to be vulnerable and wrap me once again in His perfect arms of grace. Perfect love means even though I prostitute myself to the world, He is still willing to be considered as my beloved. Perfect love means that He died for me but that He also lives for me and waits for me to come to Him. Perfect love means that even when I drive a nail into His very flesh every time I sin, He takes those nail-pierced hands and surrounds me with His unfailing love and comfort. He wipes my tears away, calls me His own, loves me with a constant and perfect love, forgives me when I am unforgiveable,
I am so thankful that even though I deserve an eternal death sentance and seperation from Him, He has erased my charges and set me free! Although I am in a sense His murderer, He does nothing but shower me with grace and life and peace and comfort. I only pray that I learn to love others more in the manner that Christ loves me!
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Please.
Spare me.
This does not belong here.
It is a truth and reality for many people, and because it is so important to me, I think that it does belong here. I will not disrespect what you believe, so please don't accuse me of my own beliefs.
Bekka Joy
I accuse you of nothing.
But this doesn't belong here.
It has no point... it's not Progressive, and it's frankly rude. You insult me by shoving your beliefs down my throat, and I'm sick of it. Whether I am Christian, Pagan, Jewish, whatever... you make no point about helping the world or improving your religion or anything. It's just the same-old you should be a Christian or you're going hell (in one way or another) and I am sick and tired of it. If I wanted to read this, I could go to a million websites, but I don't want to read it here.
So write these particular types of blogs where people share your interests and beliefs, just like people are here on ProU to share interests and beliefs in improving the world.
This post in no way was intending to be a "shove-it-down-your throat" type of thing. This was a personal, internal look on my own relationship with Christ. I never made any claim except to say that I (me, myself) am guilty of sin. I am not accusing anyone else of anything. However, if people come to realize the love that Christ has for this world (as is outlined in John 3:16) then that most certainly IS progressive in that they discover the perfect love of a perfect Savior!
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." Those are not my own words; those are the words taken from a book that to this day remains at the top of the best sellers list! In my eyes, the Bible most certainly is progressive because the message of it is still changing millions of hearts today!
Bekka Joy
Katie is right, this isn't progressive in the least. It should be on myspace and facebook, not on here. Personal observations on your relationship with an invisible fatherfigure are not progressive. This is the same old Christian stuff, and frankly it's old and warn out.
People post things on here every day that involves personal beliefs, religion, and ideas. My beliefs are just as important as the next person's. It hurts me when you say such mean and hurtful things.
Also, could you please let me know of specific passages in the Bible where slavery and beating your wife is acceptable behavior? Because it says in First Peter that "husbands are to love your wives just as Christ loves the church." The Bible does talk about how Christ came to be a servant for many, but this in no way endorses the act of slavery. In fact the Bible says to "love your neighbor as yourself". I just am curious to know where you got these ideas. By the way, if you know what is contained in the Bible, this shows that you have read it....and that shows me that this book still has a hold and facination on people today, even if they don't believe it
Bekka Joy
I'm not stopping you from it, but you aren't saying anything progressive. I get on everyone who tells about there relationship with whatever if I catch it. It isn't as bad as it used to be. Your beliefs are important but so are mine, should I only let you tell me I'm going to hell? That is not progressive.
I know what is in the Bible, I've read it multiple times. I said you can interpret the Bible to back slavery, heres a passage.
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)"
"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given. (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)"
"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)"
Same goes for beating your wife and children. I'll find more to add later
"Proverbs 23: 13-14
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with a rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with a rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."
By the way, if you know what is contained in the Bible, this shows that you have read it....and that shows me that this book still has a hold and facination on people today, even if they don't believe it. This in turn shows me that the Bible may be ancient but the ideas are still discussed every day; therefore it is not old and worn but in fact very new and progresive. If there are so many interpretations as you said in your comment, then by all means they should be discussed!
Bekka Joy
Bekka Joy
There are websites specifically designated for discussions and interpretation of the Bible.
Go there.
I can and will do that, but I will also continue to post things here that I believe to be important. Thanks for the advice though. I will certainly look into some of those sites. Do you have any examples of some I could look into?
Bekka Joy
Google "Bible discussion"
That is easy enough. Thanks again!
Bekka Joy
www.evilbible.com
youtube- The Bible about beating your wife.
and others.
ProU encourages its members to "blog about things that matter to you. We have users that blog about personal experiences with religion, diseases, and even financial aid problems they face with their school. None of these necessarily come from the news, and none necessarily have to do with politics. Blog about what matters to you." (LINK)
If you don't want to read blogs like this, then I suggest you exercise a little self-restraint and don't read them. In my opinion, a blog is a good blog if it makes you think. And, sometimes the blogs that make you think the most are those that express opinions with which you do not agree.
Blog on, missionsminded_maiden, blog on!
percivale
P.S. Just don't expect me to agree with you. (;P)
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"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
I have no problem with this user blogging about religion. In fact, I am interested in blogs from which I learn about other cultures and religions in a non-confrontational and relaxed, instructive manner.
I do have a problem with him forcing his religion upon others, which this blog and his comments clearly are dedicated towards doing.
I am probably one of the most anti-religious blogers on this website, but I'm also a strong proponent the free exchange of ideas. People who sit around and do nothing but agree with one another never learn anything interesting or new.
There is nothing in the expression of an idea in a blog that forces you to do anything. Even if the blogger was suggesting that you should actually be forced to convert to their religion, that still wouldn't immediately constitute a violation of ProU's policies.
There is nothing in ProU's policies that requires that a blog be "non-confrontational, relaxed or instructive." If you don't like this member's blogs, avoid them. Or better yet, respond to the content and give us an intelligent rebuttal to the ideas with which you disagree.
Please don't tell bloggers that their ideas don't belong here, because if you really think that, you might be the one who is actually at odds with the purpose of ProU.
percivale
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"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
These aren't ideas. They are propaganda.
I'm encouraging this blogger to publish blogs of this nature on a website where people of similar beliefs and interests lie. I'm not asking him to leave; I read many of his blogs and enjoy them, I simply do not need to read Christian recruiting when I am trying to catch up on the ProU blogging. Don't tell me "then don't read it"... because you know very well that's bullshit. I have a right to clean up this website, and a responsibility as an active blogger to point out that this does not belong.
This blog does not fit with our values; it doesn't share any unique perspective or method of change to help others. It's recruiting, pure and simple, and as far as I am concerned it's SPAM.
That's your opinion, and to a certain point I even agree. But, "propaganda" is ultimately nothing more than a one-sided presentation designed to influence an audience. If we were to forbid (or chase away) opinions with which we do not agree from our website, wouldn't that make us guilty of propagandizing our own points of view?
It sounds to me like that is exactly what you are asking.
If you lack the discipline to control which blogs you decide to read, and more importantly in which to participate, that a fault of yours, not missionminded_maiden's.
You have a right to express your opinion, just like any other member or ProU, but that's really the end of it. The only people who really have the "right" to "clean up" their blogs or be shown to the door are the staff and ownders of ProU. Currently, ProU's stated policies are rather specifically permissive of this kind of blog. If you don't like that, well...tough. Grow up and learn to share the sandbox with people who disagree with you.
Frankly, its not your place to decide what our values are. ProU's values are inclusive, not exclusive, and so long as members abide by the Terms of Service, they are welcome to blog about whatever they wish. Personally, I think that religion--and I mean all religions--are pretty much pointless exercises in primitive ignorance. I find religious proselytizing to be extroirdinarily distasteful, but to be perfectly honest most of the people who engage in it really are trying to help you in their own, misguided ways.
Most blogs are written with the intent to pursuade its readers towards a particular position, and I don't see any reason to treat religious blogs any differently when they try to do the same thing. As for the question of "SPAM," ProU has a policy on that, too, which this blog clearly doesn't violate.
Again, exercise a little personal restraint. I disagree with most religously-motivated blogs, but have found that they provide an excellent springboard for explaining to people why I have the problems with religion that I do. Instead of just telling a blogger to get lost, engage them. Challenge the intellectual basis of their opinion. Even if they won't budge, there are other people reading the exchage, and if your arugments are sound, they may be won over to your point of view.
percivale
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"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
This is just that.
Stop religious SPAM.
...Your objection is noted, but will I suspect be otherwise be ignored. I will simply point out (what should be) the obvious, which is that unless a member violates the ToS, they are welcome to blog about whatever they wish.
percivale
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"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
A girl can try to stop SPAM.
I believe that SPAM is against the website's policy.
"Spamming is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to indiscriminately send unsolicited bulk messages."
I'm sorry you feel that way, but the simple fact is that the original blog above is not "spam" by any normal definition of the word.
percivale
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"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
Good point Percivale.
Thanks so much for the encouragement. It gives me the motivation to continue writing about things that matter to me. You have no idea how much your kind words have meant!
Have a super night!
Bekka Joy
I will have to check into some of those passages before I put my foot in my mouth, but I do know that often Christ would give parables that included cultural norms. My guess is that the passages in the New Testement are referring to the eqivalent of what it should be like to serve Christ as based on their cultural norm of master and servant. This type of slavery was not based on abasement and disrespect however. Masters were to treat their slaves kindly and show them kindness. You find many examples of grace from the master towards the servant in the Bible. After all, Christ Himself came as a servant even though He was also the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
I think you have inspired me to write a post about slavery in the Bible. Thanks! I am going to go check it out....because despite what you said, the Bible is progressive and is worth discussing. Remember, that it was my original post that sparked this discussion.
Bekka Joy
And me and a large majority of the community can disprove what your write about slavery in the Bible. Remember they justified slavery during the 1800's using the Bible, so that weakens your argument already because Christians have no consensus on what the Bible really says. And actually it is based off debasement. The master should be cruel in his punishment, but if he is a Christian, he shouldn't be so much. If you want to make it a parable for God, it makes God look like an asshole and makes me glad that I finally broke free from that constricting belief. So I thank the Bible for showing me what a horrible person God truly is.
What was unprogressive was telling me that I am going to hell and that this is how God has worked in your life.
You are mistaken that I ever told you that you are going to hell. I never once made that statement. I do believe the Bible when it says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." But I never once was accusing anyone of eternal seperation from God in my original post.
As far as using the Bible to justify slavery, I believe that was wrong. But if you read the story (or see the movie Amazing Grace) you learn that John Newton came to realize the amazing grace of God and the sin of being involved in the slave industry of the 1800's. He then wrote the famous hymn called Amazing Grace.
My heart breaks that you think that God is hateful, but I tell you right now that He still loves you and He is waiting for you to come back to Him, just like the parable of the prodical son.
Bekka Joy
So John Newton realized it...good for him, but one persons good doesn't wash the blood off the hands of Christians.
It's really not hard to think God is hateful, it's pretty obvious. It can wait forever, if I believe in God, it will be a deist God, not the God of the Bible. Sorry you can feel as bad as you want, but to tell you the truth, it makes me laugh to hear you say that last section.
Well, if you don't believe in God, please know that you were created with purpose, that you were created to worship, and that your life counts for something. Even though you may not believe in a loving God, He believes in you and He loves you....the end.
Bekka Joy
Stop... forcing... your... religion... down... our... throats.
What about this do you not understand?
Seriously.
I am really sorry that you think that is what I am doing. That is not my intention in the least. Could you please be specific as to what I have done to make you think that I am attempting to force my own faith down your throat? I am sorry if you feel this way, but I was not aware of doing anything wrong. Please forgive me if I have offended you in any way and let me know what I can do to make it better.
Bekka Joy
You are an intelligent person. You know exactly what you are doing, why it irritates me, and what is wrong with it.
If you were truly sorry, you would have stopped the first time I asked you to.
Please don't judge my motives...I truly AM sorry for having offended you so but if my blogs are so entirely offensive to you, perhaps you should find other journals to spend your time reading. I find it kind of interesting that although you continue to complain about this particular post, you still keep coming back to leave more comments.
Although your comments towards me are a little more than hurtful, I am able to move on and continue writing about what matters most to me. I appreciate any feedback, but I would ask that you have a little respect for my personal beliefs. Take care!
Bekka Joy
Unless the writer has taped open your eyes, strapped you in a chair, and placed the words in front of you it is not even as intrusive as speech. What you are saying is that she shouldn't have freedom to express herself.
Shame on you.
You have a choice of not reading, by now you know what her message is. If you read it blame yourself. Trying to get someone you disagree with to stop talking is oppression.
Sorry I live by the ideas of Existentialism and Objectivism, I don't need God to give it meaning. I'm really sorry that you believe in God, but remember, that you were not created to worship, and that life doesn't count for anything except the price humans put on it. Even though you believe in a loving God, He might not believe in you and He doesnt love you...the end.
Awesome blog!!!! I think it is big problem that people claim Christians are intolerant meanwhile they commit the crime of which they accuse Christians... except of course in a worse form.
"I like the dream of the future better than the history of the past."
You clearly have no knowledge of the historical or modern context of your own religion.
Not nearly enough, I know. But I learn something new every day that convinces me that God is real. Perhaps it is not always historical or scientific (although many times it is) but God always shows Himself faithful, even when I am not.
History certainly does back the Bible up, the more and more that I study it. As far as a modern context, does my own personal relationship with Him count? I am telling you that His presence is very evident in my own life and in the lives of those around me. Praise Him!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Thanks! I just really think that it is something that needs to be addressed, especially in our country today where tolerance has backfired and caused people to become very intolerant of true Christianity.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden