Oh boy! I have a feeling I am going to get hammered with this post (and some other ones to come) but what's new? If I have learned anything at Progressiveu, it is that I should not be ashamed to stand up for what I believe. One thing that I believe is that homosexuality is not right. There is no gene that makes someone homosexual; it is a choice. Even my anthropology teacher (who is very much an advocate for gay rights) mentioned in class that although some people are born with certain personality qualities of the opposite sex, it is a choice for people to be gay.
I want to start out by saying that I in no way judge gay people. In fact, I have some friends who consider themselves to be homosexual and they are some of the kindest people I know. But at the same time, I do not agree with their lifestyle choice. If I shunned all my friends because of their sinful nature, I would have no friends nor could I consider myself someone of worth. Everyone struggles with imperfection and NO ONE (especially me!) is perfect.
I firmly believe however that to live a homosexual lifestyle is wrong. God created men to have sexual relations with women; hence we have the story in Genesis of Adam and Eve. In the Old Testement, there were serious consequences for people who were living in sin and homosexuality was one of the issues that brought about the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah. If God would have wanted men to be with men and women to be with women, He would have made that clear from the beginning.
When we look at the New Testement, Paul clearly writes about how in the end times, there will be wide acceptance of sexual sins. He talks about how men will commit unnatural things with men and women will lie with women. Homosexual relationships are becoming increasingly accecpted in our society, making it purley a conicidence or making it clear that Paul was right. I am going to guess that because I believe Scripture to be God-breathed, Paul was right. Tolerance of gay relationships is evidently becoming much more widely accepted.
For those of you who are gay, I know this may seem rather blunt and offensive; the truth is often both of these things. I would simply ask you to examine your actions and see if you are living a life that is pleasing to God. If you are not gay, I would ask that you do not judge those who are. Stand up for what you believe to be right, but don't criticize others because we are all sinners by nature. Instead, examine your own life and see your own mistakes. Care for your own faults and not the faults of others. I know that I struggle with faults every day, which is why I am in desperate need of a Saviour. The truth is, we all are...not just those who consider themselves to be gay!
P.S. Check out my post entitled "Stop Judging Others; Examine Yourselves" for further reading on not looking at the faults of others but really examining your own life.
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
Perhaps God did not create man at all.
Or did you ever consider that homosexuality is God's way of naturally controlling the population of this planet?
Wow, I love that last part. I never thought of it that way, if we were created by a God. It makes sense. And to the part of missionminded, have you noticed that people who are homosexual usually have similar traits?
The latter part of your comment made me laugh out loud. Very clever, but I believe in a God who will never contradict Himself or go against His Word. Therefore, He would not use homosexuality as a way of population control.
As far as God not creating man at all, that is for you to believe. But when I personally look at creation, I cannot deny a Creator because His works are so beautiful and wonderful. I personally choose to believe that I was designed with purpose, not just by chance. We are so much more special than just arising out of mere accidental primordial soup. God says that "He created us in our mother's womb and that we should praise Him because we are fearfully and wonderfully made." He created us in the image of God and He loves us!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Who are you to claim that you understand God's mysterious ways?
Man wrote the Bible. Not God. Regardless; I see nothing in the 10 Commandments about sodomy.
The bible is more than the 10 Commandments.
And since you asked them... who you are you to claim that you understand God's mysterious ways?
*grin*
scripture was written with divine inspiration, that means that while it was the hand of man who wrote it, it was the will of God that was written.
Of course, the natural response is normally to reference bible verses (normally a psalm, but not always) about killing women and children.
I don't think so.
There is significant evidence that the Bible was written by men, that is was commissioned with political ambitions, and that it's purpose is more sinister than you are led to believe.
Not to mention it was written almost 400 years after the birth of Christ. Talk about historical inaccuracy. You try writing a book via hearsay about the 1600's and let me know how it goes.
Actually, no.
It was written over generations dating back to the generic time of Abraham (The book of Job, specifically) with much of it written starting with Moses and after.
around 300 or so years before Christ, the OT stops. While the earliest COPY of anything from the NT is from about 400 or so AD, the first four books were written by people who traveled with Jesus, and are so named.
Most of the NT was written by Paul, who used to be a Jew who sought out and persecuted Christians, until he was riding to a town one day.
The Old Testament was written to showcase the Jews, the people set apart by God to be His example of what is right and good. The New Testiment was written to showcase Christ, who fufilled the prophecies of the Old Testament as the Son, and took our place for payment of our sins.
In fact, for quite a few decades, the Christians were persecuted by the Roman Empire, mostly because they wouldn't worship the Ceasar as a God.
For that, they were tossed into arena where they were ripped apart by angry and hungry lions.
Now, while I agree that some have sought power and used christianity to get it (twisting all of christianity into something evil to get their way), that does not detract from Christ Himself.
What, specifically, were you referring to as 'sinister' motives by a bunch of fishermen who had their lives changed by some ex-carpenter they hung around with?
Considering that more than a quarter of the original books are missing from the previous rendition of the Bible (pre-AD 400s)... I'd call that "sinister" and "censure".
I don't approve of the Bible. I think it falsely depicts historical figures and contexts, women in particular.
What books are you speaking of? What rendition of the Bible are you talking about? The cannonization of Scripture took a very long time and was only completed after each book met very clear and specific standards that did not contradict any other part of God's Word. It is amazing to see how much time and care was put into the cannonization of the Bible.
Also, I was just wondering if you have studied the Bible thoroughly in order to disapprove of it. What false depictions of historical figures and contexts are you speaking of? Would you argue with the biblical verses about how "women are to be loved by their husbands as Christ loves the church?" Are you disagreeing that women were created equally as men? Are you disagreeing that women were created with purpose and immaculate design? The Bible talks about all of these things! In the Bible's eyes, women are pretty darn special if you ask me! If you disagree with these things, then perhaps you would believe the Bible to portray women as falsely depicted.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Well, yes, there were many books that did not get included into what is today known as the christian bible.
books that the Jews still use that was determined to not be relevent to the being of Christ. (Maccabees, etc)
but there were also books that were taken out because they were shown to be fradulent.... like the Book of Adam, supposedly written by Adam, but apparently written LONG after Moses.
I still don't know what 'sinister' plot there is, please do explain it.
As for women in the bible, some of the greatest 'heroes' of the bible are women, one of the Judges is a woman, Esther is a woman, as Ruth. Both Mary Magdeline (sp?) and Mary the mother of Christ were women. Paul, in many of his letters, thanked people from the churches he was writing to, and many were women.
What nefarious plot does Christianity have against women?
And Katie, even though those books did not get included in the Bible, it doen not neccessarily make them bad. They are still historical, but by the same token there may have been some written to try and disprove the Bible or contradict it. Those books are where you are going to run into a problem with a "sinister plot" or plan to bring down the Bible. But God of course will not allow this to happen because they are His words specifically given to us to be read! And it is worthy to note that although this book is more than a few thousand years old (Old Testement) and a little over 2000 years old (New Testement), it still remains at the top of the best sellers list! You have to give it some credit, even if you do not believe it!
Also, it is pretty amazing that the entire Bible (although written over a significant time span) backs itself up in its entirety. It does not contradict itself. I am thinking only God has the ability to compose such a book!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Here are a few decent articles concerning scholarly interests in the thousands of innate contradictions within the Bible:
http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_1494.shtml
http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm
http://www.bible-quotes-science-info.com/art/a-13-woman-bible-science.ht...
These are from a simple Google search; but they provide valid references to scripture.
I'll look at the first and last when I get home, but I don't really think that a page from "Evil bible . com" is going to be a valid reference. lol.
Don't judge a book by it's cover. At least look at the second link. If nothing else, it's a list of verses that the author feels shows contradiction (which is pretty much all that link is).
I certainly won't judge a book (or in this case, a link...lol) by its cover, but I am asking that other people not judge the Bible by its cover either.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Katie isn't, she's judging the Bible by its content.
Yes, but do they provide valid commentary?
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
And Katie, even though those books did not get included in the Bible, it doen not neccessarily make them bad. They are still historical, but by the same token there may have been some written to try and disprove the Bible or contradict it.
Sinister or not, that still means the Bible has been corrupted. God himself says in the Bible "do not add, change, or remove anything from this book."
That, of course, begs the question, what other parts of it have been corrupted?
No, it means the original Bible that was cannonized has NOT been corrupted because those books which I spoke of have not been included in the Bible for the very reason that the Bible does clearly say: "do not add, change, or remove anything from this book."
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Yes, because slavery, rape, murder, and genocide are still "God's will" as viewed in many instances in the Bible.
And all those missing books aren't missing for a reason.
How ignorant can you get.
When you study further into the compilations of Scripture, you will come to discover that the New Testement was written within 35 to 40 years of the life of Christ. And of course, we are perfectly aware that the Old Testement was written well before the time of Christ! So, i am not sure where you are getting your information, but you may need to check into that "fact" a little further.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
You can believe this.
But no one really knows when things were written, or by who. The truth will never be known, except by hearsay and by "believers" who blindly follow what they are told, never questioning or desiring the truth.
Ugh.
I think you do christians a great disservice by suggesting that we do not question what we are told or desire the truth.
Especially me. You know me.
Look at the multitude of extra-biblical research material... written by scholars, theologians, etc. etc. etc.
part of faith is to question what we believe. To put it up and subject it to reason. As we hold that the bible is God's word, it is relied upon to determine much of our faith, as anyone from ANY faith does...
When we find we have a belief that doesn't seem to fit, we analyze it to find why we differ, and in what way, and if that difference is valid.
Some things are just a matter OF faith.... "I don't KNOW how it is, but I trust that God is right."
Show me a christian who claims to know it all and has no need to question or seek, and I'll show you a liar.
Amen to that!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
"Show me a christian who claims to know it all and has no need to question or seek, and I'll show you a liar."
Pat Robertson...sorry, I really had to. I hate that man
Come on...
What's up with all the Christian bashing going on here? Why is it okay to bash Christians, slandering them, insulting their intelligence, etc.
Perhaps you should subject your blind belief to a little questioning. You just assume that the Bible is wrong, evil, sinister, etc., and then just find biased sources to "back up" your opinions.
I now that you're capable of more.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have." - Barry Goldwater
"... the ostensible means [diversity] of acheiving a desired end had become the end itself." - Clarence Thomas
No, actually those sources aren't really biased because they come directly from the Bible.
So unless you consider the Bible biased, then you're in for a real eye-opening treat about your precious scriptures.
...when you consider that this entire blog is one big gay-bashing, justified beneath the thin veneer of religious bigotry.
percivale
-------------------------
"cdesign proponentsists" - (LINK)
Yes, you are absolutely right. All of Scripture is God-breathed and designed according to the will of God. We certainly will never understand the full character of God, but we learn about His attributes when we study His Word.
I love the way you make your comments. A little humor to warm up the ice but just enough chill to get the heavier points across! I like it!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Yes all scripture is God breathed, so Muslims, Jews and Christians are all right...sorry to burst that bubble, if Christianity is right because it is God breathed, then so is Islam.
There is a difference between what IS and what one claims.
If you have two different groups saying the same thing, then at least one of them is wrong.
Islam will say Christians are, Christians will say that Islam is.
It is possible that both are.
However, that is a matter of faith. In the end, at least one is wrong.
Or both.
Yes, I believe I said that.
Did you have a further point?
Sorry, I thought you implying that both could be right, and not that there is an equal chance that they could both be wrong.
No, as they contradict one another, they can't both be right.
When we are talking Scripture, we are talking about the Bible.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
And your point? The Torah and Koran call those verses scripture as well. When you think of scripture you think Bible, when I think of scripture, I think Bible and then Torah and Koran because they all claim to be divine because God told some dude how to write them and they are all considered scripture...I'm repeating myself.
I used to toy around with the notion that effeminate gay men need to hook up with the butch lesbians... someone for everyone. lol.
On a more serious note, every generation has had homosexuality, and it isn't likely to go away.
However, just because there are homosexuals does not mean that God created or endorsed homosexuality.
Remember that all sin is a perversion of what is good.
I couldn't agree with you more about homosexuality in every generation. Nations in the Bible struggled with it even in the Old Testement. The difference is that homosexuality (along with all other types of sins) are now being more widely tolerated as though they are good. This is what Paul is speaking of in the Bible. Sin has always exsisted, but today it is much more widely accepted as being ok.
But as one speaker I heard at summer camp once said, "Hate the sin, not the sinner!"
P.S. I thought your idea about the effeminate males and "butch" females was pretty humourous!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Yeah, but even the toleration of homosexualy as morally equal to heterosexuality is not new.
It was very widespread across the roman empire.
Point well taken.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
You believe the bible to be inspired by god yet you don't listen to it....
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.-Leviticus 18:22
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.-Leviticus 20:13
I get not always being able to interpret God's words but this one is spelled out for you, kill all gays, how can you question that....ITS RIGHT THERE.
Here's some more for you...
I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?-Jed Bartlett, West Wing
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
lmao, I love that quote. But it does bring up interesting questions. T_Time, you do know they'll say that Jesus washed us from sin so the OT doesn't have to be followed, or something like that.
I like my bible the way it was written. Last time I checked the bible was inspired by god and I am not in the power to defy what he wrote. I don't see how any one else is either.
For those of you who know anything about me, I haven't changed my view this is all ironic.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
Wait, I am confused. You believe in the Bible then? That is great! We may never understand the way God does, but that doesn't mean He is not consistent to His Word and character. I have many questions like this all the time, but I remind myself that He is totally faithful and trustworthy. He has proven that throughout my entire life and I have been around for almost 22 years!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
No, he doesn't.
He is ripping on Christianity and the Bible.
thus my "Pearls before swine" comment.
Oh, I see.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
I actually think the bible is a well written piece of literature that holds some of the most inspiring and motivational stories on the planet. I don't however think it would be right for me to claim one part is true b/c god says it and the other is false b/c god wasn't clear. If you believe everything in the bible is the true word of god, then I can respect that b/c you made a choice preferably after you read the bible. However I can't understand those who say it is true yet then don't follow its teachings, it is mind-boggling to me.
Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted
*yawn*
pearls before swine.
Exactly... though I suspect we disagree on what is the pearl and who is the swine
===
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
Funny how that works.
When is comes to sexuality, you are better off approaching the topic from a sexologist's point of view. Bring religions into play like this bothers me a little since it's a different, yet related subject. You are viewing sexuality in a spiritual sense, which is very hard to convince someone who doesn't believe in any particular religion. How come no one ever questions heterosexuality? Is it because it reproduces the next generation? Is our only purpose here to reproduce? I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to prove here...maybe I am not reading carefully enough. So far, it seems like you're trying to say homosexuality is a sin. But it's okay to be homosexuals because we are all sinners from birth. Am I understanding this correctly?
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mylot.com/?ref=truelife
Your god is homophobic and he promotes homophobia.
I am ashamed of you for what you believe.
(1) Your anthropology professor is both right and wrong depending exactly on how one defines homosexuality. Is one a homosexual if they are strongly attracted to another, or do they actually have to have homosexual sex to be considered a homosexual? Or to gear the same question to a heterosexual audience, can a virgin be a heterosexual, or are they asexual?
The story of David Reimer shed a lot of light on this. David lost his penis at the age of 8 months due to a circumcision accident. His parents consulted with a "sexologist", John Money. Money believed that sex roles were learned, not inherited. David's parents decided to raise him as a girl. They treated him as such from age 18 months had his testicles removed at the age of 22 months. Money even wrote a book detailing the success of the procedure. He claimed that David (at that point, his name was "Brenda") was a well-adjusted, happy young woman.
A reporter tracked him down and found that Money had painted a rather distorted picture. David had attempted suicide, and he was undergoing hormone treatments to have a second sex-change operation that would change him back to a male. He did this, married a woman who already had 3 children of her own. It seems that his sexual characteristics were determined by at least 22 months of age. It certainly isn't hard to imagine something screwing up with that process causing one to become attracted to persons of their sex, that would only become manifest when they reached sexual maturity. In fact, there are many studies that suggest there is either a genetic or developmental propensity to do just that. So it is unlikely that sexual preference is a choice. But the decision to have sex, and who one has sex with IS a choice.
(2) It doesn't really matter whether homosexuality is a choice or not. It is an act that occurs between two consenting adults. It doesn't harm anyone. No one is advocating that people be forced into homosexual relationships. There is no more reason to consider it a sin than it is to consider a extreme fondness for spelunking (exploring caves) a sin.
Your protestations are disingenuous. You DO judge. You are claiming that homosexuals are sinful. When you say that you do not agree with their lifestyle choice, you not saying that you don't think it is right for you. You are saying that they are doing something they shouldn't be doing. That is judging.
What reason does God have to consider homosexuality a sin? You say that God created men to have sexual relations with women. This suggestst the problem with homosexuals is that do not have sex with members of the opposite sex. But what about nuns, priests, Jesus, and the Virgin Mary who didn't/don't have sex with anyone. Are they sinning as well?
If not then it is OK in God's sight to NOT have sex with members of the opposite sex. So is the problem then that homosexuals have sex with members of the same sex? Why? What's wrong with it?
What is the purpose of sex? One purpose is to have children. But if that is the case, then should post-menopausal women have sex? How about me? ... I have had a vasectomy. Even before I had a vasectomy I had sex with my wife hundreds of times, during that time period we had only one child. We still have sex and there certainly is not going to be any more children. I contend that if you look at the number of times people have sex compared to the children they produce then the MAIN purpose of sex is establish and strengthen the pair-bond. And that purpose is fully compatible with homosexual sex.
Paul also thought that Jesus' return was imminent. He was wrong there too.
Your blog is offensive to those of us who aren't gay as well. You worship a homophobic book. Homophobia is not something to be proud of nor is it something that should be condoned. It is no different than Islamic fundamentalists claiming that women who allow their face to be displayed in public are whores. There is no reason to believe that either ... no matter what their religious text may or may not say.
You are not in desperate need of a saviour. You already know what is right and what is wrong. You just need to understand that neither you nor you religious book have a lock on what is moral and what isn't. So long as actions do no harm and no one is doing something that they do not want to do, then no act is immoral.
Cheers,
Darwin's Beagle
===
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. - Anatole France
All have sinned. That a sinful person is pointing out sin doesn't make them wrong.
It is not a homosexual we judge, but the act of homosexuality, as a sin.
Every person is sinful. I am just as sinful as anyone else, we each have our own pet sins.... our oen pet evils we give in to.
Some just don't recognize them, or call them good to keep from having to accept that they are evil (even if they really DO believe they are good, as perception is NOT reality)
The very nature of "sin" is that you are forced to continually grovel to a (supposedly) benevolent dictatorship.
I don't think that God would choose this. Therefore, for this reason among many others, I choose to believe that Christianity was, just like the Bible, created by men.
But I am a homosexual and, I am being judged for that, right here all over this page!
By naming it a sin you are judging, passing what you believe God's judgement on the topic would be. Believe what you will I'm not here to argue that but do not claim that people here aren't judging, the very principle of this post was a judgement.....
"Love is not enough. It must be the foundation, the cornerstone - but not the complete structure. It is much too pliable, too yielding."
~Bette Davis
The very principle of this post was to take a stand on something I believe to be right. If we want to go that route, then most every post on this site is judgemental in one way or another. Homosexuality is a topic that is discussed, debated, and voted about. I am simply stating the reasons that I believe it to be wrong, namely because it says so in the Bible (which I believe to be God's words). I am sorry if you feel judged; you are probably a great person (that is a judgement by the way...that I am assuming that you are a great person) but I just don't agree with homosexual activity (that is not a personal judgement; that is simply my own personal opionion strictly of the matter, not of you). See the difference? In my post, I never once passed judgement onto anyone. I even stated that I have some gay friends who are wonderful people! I simply don't agree with their lifestyle and that is not a judgement of them, only a disagreeance of a choice they are making.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Ahh, the principle is that you are taking a stand on what you believe...the funny thing is, that just because you believe something, doesn't make it right or true.
And it also gives you no right to judge others on the basis of your beliefs.
Religions based on exclusion of others are so translucently man-made, because what God would choose to exclude creatures He made from "being saved"? It's so rational it's painful.
Katie, if I have judged others, then I have been wrong. But if you read through every single comment and both posts I wrote on the matter, you will not come across one time where I was telling someone that I judge them. Yes, I disagree with a choice of lifestyle, but this is not judgement. If your friend told you to steal something from a store and you told her that you would not do that because it is wrong, does that mean you are judging your friend? No, you are just not agreeing with a choice or decision that your friend chooses to make.
Finally, Christianity is not based on exclusion. The Bible says in Romans, "For ALL who call on the name of the Lord will be saved!" That doesn't sound very exclusive to me.
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
Implying, therefore, that all who do not come into Christianity will not be "saved."
Sounds like exclusion to me. Guess I'm going to hell. Good thing hell doesn't exist, because you'd probably end up there for your cruddy recruitment tactics. This is not what Jesus taught.
What then did Jesus teach? It was Jesus Himself who said, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him might not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) It is not exclusive when He came to bring salvation for the world.
Hell is a very real place and I should be sent there because I fall short of His perfect holiness and I could never do His name justice even when I share with others (what you labeled as my "cruddy recruitment tactics"). Thank goodness for His grace though because it has set me free from all my shortcomings, even those "cruddy recruitment tactics". ;-)
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
It is and it isn't exclusive.
It is exclusive in the sense that whoever doesn't believe that Jesus was the begotten Son of God and doesn't accept them as their savior is going to go to Hell, but those that do accept him are going to Heaven. This is exclusion in the sense that you can't just be a good person and do good things, since a good person can still go to Hell if they didn't accept Jesus.
It's not exclusive in the sense that anyone who accepts Jesus will be saved from Hell, regardless of background, upbringing, race, former religion, etc. You could be a mass murderer and still get into Heaven by repenting and asking Jesus to forgive your sins.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Christianity is based on exclusion. Christians believe that anyone who isn't included in their religion aren't good enough because they refuse to bow to a God whom, in that person's belief system, does not exist. Therefore, they tout how these poor unsaved souls will be excluded from an eternity of Christian happiness, which fortunately I reject.
Be very aware that if the Holy Spirit chooses to work in your life in the future, you will no longer be able to deny His existance. He is real in my life; He very well may become real in yours as well. If He chooses to work in your life, you will not be able to turn away. I am evidence ot that!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
I know what Christians believe, and I'm saying you both are right, it just depends on how you look at it.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
That is a very pertinent way to put it. It is all dependent on God's grace in our lives! Thanks!
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden
That is exclusive. If I refuse to call on the name of the Lord of the Bible, then I burn in Hell...it is still very exclusive.
I know, but I do and will anyways. Because if I don't, then it's discriminatory.
I meant religious beliefs, not moral beliefs.
As in, I judge you based on what I believe is right, as opposed to I judge you based on what some guy 2,000 years ago told some people who told some people who wrote it down decades later said God said was right.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ah...but I'm judging the religion and not the person.
I'm still confusing you, sorry.
I believe it's fine to judge people. Just as long as that judgment is based on personal beliefs, that you've developed from your experiences (and maybe even religion, even though I frown on this), and not just from what other people have told you. So, people who make judgments on others based only on their religious beliefs aren't thinking for themselves.
Oh ok...sorry, not enough sleep...probably 3 hours isn't healthy, lol.
Isn't that the truth...I got only 2.5 hours of shut eye the other night! ;-)
"If imperfections are what make us beautiful, then I must be a total babe!"
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/missionsminded-maiden