No one has ever known, seen, heard, felt, anything tangible that can be considered "God". If you say you have, you're lying. No, God did not write the bible, nor did he write any other books (such as the Koran). But there is one thing we can say about God. More deaths have been result of his name than the combination of all the wars that America has been in. Apparently, God is responsible for more deaths than Hitler; and let me add that there has been no evidence of 'Him' ever saving anyone's life. So I say: FUCK GOD! He is a tyrant, an oppressor, and a ruthless killer. He is a commander of death. If he created us, why does he have to allow so much death. Has he abandoned us? Has he gone on vacation? Why does influence us to kill?
FUCK GOD
By Oedipus - Posted on May 1st, 2006
I couldn't disagree with you more. Sorry!
------------------------------------------------
It always seems impossible until it is done-Nelson Mandela.
God is fucker with no dick
maybe because you made a lot of mistakes in your live which make you neglect the existence of GOD or say that bad words about his majesty ,
god in his koran said
"وفي انفسكم افلا تبصرون"
" look to yourselves" which mean consider yourself that body ,brain ,cells
I am 18. Who the hell decides whether they believe in god or not by this age? It's impossible. 18 years of living and I still have no evidence of anything. I know there is a higher force. Obviously. The universe didn't just appear, the "higher force" is probably an infinity of worlds. However, NOBODY here is correct. Nobody can say they know the truth about the meaning of life and the creator of worlds.
Scientists can only research so far into how the world was created, but can they find out who created the universe or whatever our universe is a part of. Live life open to EVERYBODY's views and it's the best feeling ever. I can be perfectly happy because if there's a god then he should understand why I am not sure if he exists, I mean he hasn't given me any reasons to believe in him so why should I? As for not believing in a god I don't know that either? Hell, there are so many religions out there can someone part of some these religions be so close-minded to say that they are right. The only people I can't stand are people not open to people's lifestyles and views.
There are approximately 1 billion people in starvation today. Instead of talking about religion and obviously fake morality attached to it, one could do everything humanly possible to prevent it and all other kinds of pain. But most people don't. Yet a lot of this people still talk about god and his grace. I think "fuck god right in the ass together with these crawlers". Their words are empty, because actions speak louder than words and we observe so little action compared with these words of praise. How much charity is Vatican doing out of how much income, I wonder. They waste lots of money just to spread their disgusting hypocritical ideology and raise pedophiliac priests. They are merely ensuring the flow of income by advertisement and commercializing their funny religion. Jesus supposedly died on cross, but these assholes sit on their fat asses suffering almost nothing compared to him. Same is true with all other religions and a lot of their followers. We freely thinking people of earth are suffering a lot of shit that could have been prevented, and all they do is praising an indifferent god watching senseless suffering. I just don't buy that shit. I have real needs to be met along with billions of people and all I get is empty talk with phony morality, which obviously does not work. When I look at believers, I see mostly greedy little children terrified by the thought of mortality, who choose to believe a god very much like Santa Claus, which would give them eternal bliss. They don't really consider whether they are deserving it or not. Ignorance is bliss and that bliss is given to them by their irrational belief even in this life.
so I googled "fuck god and here I am. That said. First I find it hilarious and completely disturbing both at the same time that "christians" find and involve themselves in a conversation such as "fuck god". that they have the....hmm...what would be the word?....the.....ignorance?.... long family history of inbreeding? Hey, it's true right? All you "Christians believe that "God" made "Adam" and then out of "Adam's rib" made "Eve" right? Well, they had Cain and Able and whatever other daughters and sons - but either way, no way around it, either Eve or Adam had sex with their son or daughter, or their sons and daughters had sex with each other, or even possibly Adam or Eve had sex with their grandkids or great-grandkids or some other twisted way - right? so guess that makes it ok for people to fuck their sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc,....right? riiiiiiiight....BIIIIIIG okie dokie on that "true stories from the bible" what the fuck ever - although despite the fact that all you christians are most definately not adam and eve's descendants, I will give the the inbred retarded part. ....NEXT UP? (again, all you christians might as well go somewhere else because today's word of the day is "AUTONOMY" - NOW, I'M SURE WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS RIGHT? OOPS. SORRY XTIANS - FORGOT - THEY DIDN'T PUT THAT ONE IN THE BIBLE...HMMM...WONDER WHY...AHHHH. DUH. (smacks self in head hard) -sorry guys, almost forgot -that's right!!! THEIR GOD/CHURCH DOESN'T WANT THEM TO EVEN KNOW WHAT AUTONOMY IS!!! BETCHA A DOLLAR YOU START A DEBATE WITH THEM, RECORD IT, AND SHOW IT TO A MASS AUDIENCE, THEY'LL MAKE ASSES OF THEMSELVES TRYING TO ARGUE HOW GOD REALLY DOES GIVE THEM FREE WILL BUT THEY CAN TELL THE REST OF THE WORLD THAT THEY'RE SINNERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. HMMM.... ANYBODY THAT HAS ANY BRAINS AND CAN READ AND THINK FOR THEMSELVES KNOWS THAT GOD (THEIR GOD BY THE BIBLE) IS OMNIPOTENT, OMNIESCENT, AND OMNIPRESENT - (BETCHA ANOTHER DOLLAR MOST OF EM DON'T EVEN HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE FUCK THAT MEANS EITHER WITHOUT GOOGLING IT) - (DON'T LIE ALL YOU GOD FEARING, BIBLE HUGGIN CHRISTIANS - AFTER ALL - YOU ALL KNOW WHAT A SIN IT IS TO LIE TO THY NEIGHBOR!! - AHH -- NO WORRIES, YOU CAN JUST GO TO CHURCH , PAY YOUR 10% TITHE AND BE ABSOLVED!! VOILA!!! PROBLEM SOLVED!!! WELL, AS YOU SHOULD KNOW, IF GOD IS OMNIPOTENT, OMNIESCENT AND OMNIPRESENT, WELL, HE CAN DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING, HE KNOWS THE PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE, AND HE'S EVERWHERE ALL AT ONCE, FOR ALL TIME, PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE....WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN GOLLY GEEZ - HE MUST HAVE KNOWN WHEN HE CREATED LUCIFER AS HIS RIGHT HAND MAN(ANGEL) THAT HE WOULD BECOME HIS WORST ENEMY..HMMM...GUESS EVERYBODY'S GOTTA HAVE A PATSY (THATS A SCAPEGOAT - IN LAYMANS XTIAN TERMS) - WELL GEE, IF GOD KNEW WHAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN WITH ALL OF HIS CREATIONS EVEN BEFORE HE CREATED THEM AND KNEW THEY WERE GONNA TURN OUT BAD EVEN BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN BORN, AND NOT ONLY THAT BUT WAS GOING TO HAVE TO SEND THEM TO HELL, THEN KINDA LOOKS LIKE GOD IS ONE REALLY SICK, TWISTED, SADISTIC FUCK. WELL, THATS ALL FOR NOW KIDS...BE BACK WITH MORE LATER....CHEW ON THAT FOR AWHILE - HOWEVER, NOT RIGHT BEFORE BEDTIME!!!!! WILL GIVE YOU INDIGESTION, HEARTBURN AND POSSIBLY DIARREAH OF THE MOUTH - SO SUCK THIS DOWN AT LEAST 3 HRS BEFORE BEDTIME OK??? NITEY NITE NITE LIL MUNCHKINS....SWEET DREAMS....SLEEP TIGHT, DON'T LET THE GOD BUGS BITE!!!
for all of you that are blind enough to put your faith your imaginary friend think about this. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
holy shit ur fuckin amazing, finally someone comes out and says that. i mean, so many people go to church on sunday and waste an entire day just to listen to some guy who was appointed pope or whatever. which is also bull because he was voted pope by the people of the church, and how the fuck are you supposed to choose who is the all mighty person who talks to god alot? do they choose the guy who does the most acid and other hallucinagens? the whole pope concept is fuckin retarded. if people really want to believe in god... i challenge them to sit in a room on their knees next to a bed praying for days and see if they get a response... if anyone says that they do thats only because they took some acid strips, or ate a shit load of shrooms. haha so many people follow this religion because why??? nobody ever gets any proof that god exsists, and if he really did exsist and he created the earth... then he would have enough fuckin power to cure fuckin cancer and aids and all that other shit. like what the fuck. and people believe in this nonsense so much that there are missionaries that actually go door to door trying to convince people that god is real. wow i would hate that job, they dont get paid any money to travel the world and waste months and months of their lives and god knows how many times the door gets slammed in their face because smart people think like you and me. im so sick of all the stupid oblivious ass holes that cant see that there is no proof and will never be any proof that there is a god unless jesus comes down supposidly in year 2012 to completely govern the world. like that is what cristians believe and its bullshit. so the entire world is going to become a dictatorship and we will all do what jesus says. that makes him sound pretty fuckin sketchy, and thats the message that cristians are portraying about jesus. they think he is going to come and save the world. haha what is he going to do, kill everyone who breaks one of the 10 commandments, which everyone does. so the world will be empty except christians... now doesnt that sound like a pretty credible sourcce to base your beliefs on? and thats just what the cristians say... but i can go on forever about how fucking stupid cristianity is.
but thank you.... haha u see things like a normal person. someone who doesnt believe in a couple make believe ghosts that everyone worships.
Oedepidus
I don't know why the hell an aetheist like you would waste their time to flame about god... maybe you have a shitty life.. maybe you broke up with your girlfriend or something or maybe you accidentally burned your eggs this morning.
But nobody wants to hear your bitching.
And why the hell are you asking us why god does everything?
Like we fucking know!
According to the bible, God is a holy being that created the world even though he knew that it would get fucked up by satan. He created this earth knowing that billions of people would experience pain and suffering that no other being had ever fathomed before.
So YES. In all regards, you're right. To our worlds standards, god would be considered hitler, the divine prince of destruction, osama, whatever you'd call him.
So stop telling us christians the shit we already know. We already know god is the reason this life sucks. We already know that god pretty much never answers us, since all communication with him was sealed off after the end of the new testament.
But we have the balls to believe that in the end he'll come through for us, that in the end, the all-knowing creator that literally killed us, made us experience misery, sorrow, anguish, and every kind of pain in the world, just to get rid of satan, a problem he created on his own... will finally bring us to peace.
I consider myself to be an atheist. However, I think that everybody should respect other people's religion. People have the right to have faith and hope...let's face it if many didn't have the morals that they have to follow in a Koran or a Bible our world be more barbaric then it already is. Let's be more honest...religion has curved civilization into what it is today. Do I honestly believe that there is a God? Do I honestly believe that Jesus walked on water? Do I honestly believe that a marriage was made for only a woman and a man? My answer to all is no but, on the other hand, there is many people that think just the opposite and I can only respect them because that is what they believe in. I don't have any respect people that don't respect that I am atheist...then I will go on and on how there is no factual proof that he doesn't exist. I feel as if God, or Allah, or whatever...exist in your world and he doesn't exist in mine. Who are we to tell each other what is and what isn't.
Dedicated to achieve the unthinkable and to excel through the impossible...destined to be absolutely amazing.
Dedicated to achieve the unthinkable and to excel through the impossible...destined to be absolutely amazing.
I've tried to understand. For years I've tried. First with the popular version, and then with all the other versions, trying to see a common thread. I still don't see anything. I wish you would stop lying. It's funny how the evil is the good and the good is the evil. I agree that more evil has been done in the name of God than any one thing in the world. It is the most ironic joke, except that when you finally get the joke...it's not that funny. You'd have to be crazy to laugh, and I've learned to be crazy. All I see is excuses and dishonesty. I never hated before, but I have never hated anyone as much as you. The world is owned by blind nincompoops bouncing bellies into one another while smiling stupidly.
Dude i think thsi whole god thing is so blown up... the whole story does not make any sence
Why the f*ck can't you~edited~"Christians" REALIZE that your hole f*cking "Christ" and all that propaganda was INVENTED by some greedy people ( the churches ) and by one f*cked up liar ( the pope ). Can't you see how much gold they have ? How did they make the Holy Book so golden and all those precious stones ? What hypocrites ! They preach not to be greedy and take money from people when that is why they made up this bullsh*t religion : to take money of ordinary people ( read : senseless and stupid SHEEP ) and use it for their own f*cking good ! Can't you realize it is all a LIE ? Oh, I can FEEL Jesus, I see him right now ! What a load of sh*t ! I don't give a shit about your petty God and what he will do to me : F*CK HIM ! And don't start with all that brainwashed sh*t of yours : " You are a sinner and Satan has conquered you, I will pray for you ! ". Your f*cked up God is all a lie ! Made up by some clever people so they can STEAL your money ! Have you always noticed after a prayer and sh*t like that they come begging to you to give them money ? They are not GIVING nothing of that to poor people and the like. They like it themselves ! What a load of BULLSH*T ! I beg of you people to realize this is all FAKE ! I can HEAR Jesus ! Oh lord ! I have been a sinner ! What a LOAD of C.R.A.P ! In fact, the pope and all his f*cking churches should be worshiped but for one thing : it is admirable how they sold this lie to many, many, many millions of generations of people and only a few ( what you brainwashed call " atheists " ) have managed to realize it is all UNREAL ! I Jesus will punish my d*ck ! He is as powerful as the mighty Superman / Spiderman ! What a JOKE ! In fact, I am going to believe in Spiderman ! He is God ! He has sacrificed Himself for us ! We should venerate spiders ! They are magical creatures ! What FAKERS ! Let us pray to the almighty spider ! He will come one day to RESURRECT us ! I urge you to believe in Him ! Believe, believe, believe ( and give us the money too ! ) or ELSE the big, fat spider will kill you ! Come one people, we are all respectable adults, so why not stop believing in stories for children ?
Don't be a pussy. If you are going to curse, curse. If you can't type "fuck" out then just don't use it at all.
Adult language is for adults, and if you are going to go about censoring yourself then you are clearly not adult enough to be using it.
“Existentialism means that no one else can take a bath for you” - Delmore Schwartz
"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real-estate above principles." - George Jean Nathan
You are one right motherfucker. BTW I went through the trouble for registering just to reply to this.
I used to be a big big time believer in god, i used to be the nicest kid, always getting good grades, and never starting fights with my parents, I would pray before every meal and every night before sleeping, including going to church every week. I was one of those stereotypical fag mormons always trying to make the best of everything, I was christian by the way. And still, I have to face so much bullshit in everyday life, mainly from other people and those communist controlling bastard parents I had because of the nice kid I was, always being taken advantage of. Then one day, i was like "dude why does it have to be like this? fuck god, fuck that asshole, from everything I do, this is what he gives me?", then until then, i changed everything, and being accepted was worth it all.
Every religious asshole thats going to reply to me, FUCK YOU! FUCK YOUR LIFESTYLE AND MOST OF ALL, FUCK GOD!
"If there is a God, let Him cut my finger" - Stalin.
Sadly, He has done much more to me than cut my finger.
I tried going down that path of righteousness, I really did. Why I had to suffer? To this day I don't know.
hellzyeaz
********** Do you really think people in the world today really discriminate other religions? Do you really think your "friends" really care what religion you practice? Do you really think that people don't hang out with others because they think, "oh he's a mormon, so he must read the bible out of a hat", or "oh she's islam, so she must wear explosives in her jacket", or "he's an buddhist, so he must hit himself in the balls with an iron club"
If everybody in the world still thought that way, or were still that hostile with those that are different from them, World War III would have begun a long time ago.
It's because of the fact that we've learned from our stupidass mistakes in the past that we've been able to mature as a society.
You're just using your belief in God as an excuse. Who the hell in this world wouldn't hang out with somebody because of their religion? We have laws in the U.S. that punish people who discriminate other religions in any way.
I'll bet more than anything ********** is not because you were a mormon, but because of your character and the person you were. They probably didn't want to hang out with you cause you pissed them off.
And if they did ignore you because of your religion, why the hell would you want to hang out with them or be acknowledged by them in the first place?
***************
One thing I really don't understand is the fact that you expected to get a reward or something for worshiping god. Well, if you ever decide to turn back to your faith I'll say this now:
You won't get shit from god.
According to our beliefs, god will help you out IF you help yourself first. And that hurdle is not even fucking worth moving an ass muscle if all you want is a prize for being a faithful christian.
***TOS Violation, Edited by Blackout on 08/08/2009.***
Well, registering is one thing, to stick around is another!
The reason why your parents raised you the way they did is because they were programmed in doing so, they are not to be blamed for this.
Actually, no one who carries a believe system should be held responsible or blamed for it!
Sadly enough, unlike yourself many remain entangled within this program while hardly ever question what is being worshipped!
If you enjoy the little freedom you enjoy now is because many others have walked and paved a path which today, allows you to remain alive regardless of your own personal thoughts spoken or unspoken.
To make this a reality for others amongst or those on their way, it’s quite important to realize answers will follow when the time is right!
To this day you don’t know, why you had to suffer!
Well, the answer is simple!
Only to keep you in a mind prison, one created and designed in order to control each and every aspect of your life!
The more you keep hate out of your system, the sooner you will realize this truth!
There is no right and wrong, it’s an illusion designed and created with the sole purpose to push forward division!
Hope you will stick around, please know, we are all gay, the whole world is gay, so are you!
http://www.wowzone.com/monkey.htm
okay, wow. this blog, a few sentences put together in a heap of passion in only a few minutes, has ya all roiling and boiling. Amazing what one person can do with very little. How many people are shocked out of their minds?how many people are nodding in agreement? And how many people, like me, who neither agree nor disagree? I believe with whoever commented and said that people have a right to their belief in a god, many gods, etc., whatever it is they choose to believe, or to not believe at all, and that those who do believe or do not believe in the same idea should respect the opinions, beliefs, and feelings of others.Having said that, heres an interesting question: what if we're all a dream?or:what if none of us are right?
I like that he's on vacation,
but in actuality, we are the ones on vacation :]
“You cannot wean away an addict from the drug. It is not possible for me to walk away from Ranjha. If it is our destiny to be together then who, other than God, can change it?”
she's a spaceman, no walker, dreamer...maybe
Hey. Somehow I doubt you actually take the time to respond, or even read these comments anymore; considering it's been at least two years since you posted this blog, but... oh well.
Maybe you've grown bored with the debate, as I have.
I understand just about everything that you've stated, but I can also see from your opposition's point of view. They have strong (sometimes blind) beliefs. But so does almost everyone in the world.
I don't, however, believe strongly in any one set of preconcieved ideas. But at the same time; I don't allow myself to believe in the validity of thoughts that I seem to have all on my own. I have endevoured away from thinking that thoughts I have on subjects are true, merely because I am the one who has them. I try not to be cocky in that way.
I grasp that you are attacking religion as well as those who practice it because of the horrible things that have spawned as a result, but it seems like all acts of violence are the result of one kind of attack or another.
People feel that their well-being, or beliefs are "attacked", so they defend. Even if the perceived attack was nothing more than someone falling in love with someone of the same sex. A conflict of ideals- with people who believe such social deviance is in direct (even calculated) opposition to their religion.
There is only one thing I really believe in. And that is; people should be able to freely believe in whatsoever they please. BUT only if those beliefs don't encroach upon, or hinder other's freedom of belief. I know you agree with this, but I'm not sure if you've realized that by the very act of belittling other people's beliefs, you have done the exact thing that has caused so many religious wars in the past.
-Told them they were wrong.
For me, there is no definitive way of knowing what is true. Our finite perceptions contain within themselves no "truth-meter" and everything is subject to evaluation and doubt.
Whether or not god is real is irrelevant. He inspires compassion in some, as well as hatred (as he has done to you.) War, as well as a striving for peace.
Death, as well as life.
I believe in the possibility of all things. It allows for a much more enjoyable experience to believe only in the idea that I may be wrong in what I "know,' and all things rest equally on the cusp of truth.
_M_
-"Don't believe everything you think."
(nabeauneko@yahoo.com)
ok i see that there's a lot of christians in this forum **.
first let's speak clearly: stop saying you are agnostic, atheist or whatever stupid words invented by the christians to say these people are still goo enough to speak about us.
**. and that's still a lot not to fall in any traps they want you to fit in.
hitler was a christian ok.
recently i saw a photo on the net of the pope of the time shaking hitler's hand.
if somebody is interested i will publish that shortly...
of course you won't see it in any book.
oh i forgot to say all this nazi fellas were wearing proudly this beautifull "croix de loraine" around their necks.
but it's not a royal evidence for these people: you must give them proofs
**
sure i respect their religion. i respect everybody, even the nazis
well what do you say of that?
after that beware of electrochocs...
**Comment edited by Fanaile Essence, March 25, 2009.
Why sound so surprised to know that Hitler was well-respected in his time? Or do you think he gained all that power by accident? It wasn't through overthrowing a government or revolution - it was through (dun, dun, dun) elections! Political activity and the backing of a well-funded party that - at the time was preaching equality and peace and (of course) a better future.
Come on, of course he was respected. He was a war hero! And prior to the antics that made him world-famous (everyone knows what I'm talking about here, I'm sure) he pulled Germany out of a state of poverty.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"when you have nothing else to say, "Fwonk" is always the perfect thing."
"yeah well, fwonk"
--Devon
Fanaile Essence
"Apparently, God is responsible for more deaths than Hitler;"
God is responsible for every death and life.
Hitler isn't even in the top man this century, although a couple of atheists hold down the top two spots:
Mao- 70 million
Stallin- 20 million
"Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
--Oscar Wilde
Hitler was a catholic. But, Hitler didn't murder millions of Jews because he was a catholic. Stalin and Mao did not kill people because their atheism told them to do so. To suggest that it did is a post hoc fallacy that spuriously draws a causal relationship where none exists. I am surprised that you would try this tired argument again, considering that you and I have discussed this at length, previously.
As I pointed out above, there is no "holy book of atheism" that instructs its followers to kill others. Many religions (such as christianity and islam), however, DO have such a book that DOES specifically tell its followers to kill in the name of the religion it represents.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
A question of love.
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Actually the conclusion I hoped you would derive on your own, since I did not provide it or the argument you imagined in your 'post hoc' comment, is that mass murder is not a result of any particular religious belief or lack thereof.
Happily, I will take your argument against the statement I did not make as an acknowledgment of the historical facts I did point out.
"Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
--Oscar Wilde
...in the previous discussion to which I linked, and your comment that "Hitler isn't even in the top man this century, although a couple of atheists hold down the top two spots," I don't see how a reasonable person could have derived the position from what you said. It is a remarkable deviation from your prior position, I suspect that it is a disingenuous one.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
A question of love.
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
"It is a remarkable deviation from your prior position, I suspect that it is a disingenuous one."
Are you kidding? It is exactly the same position.
We could add a few more genocidal maniacs to the list from even more religions if you like. The 20th century will with any luck be known as the only century with so many.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
- William Shakespeare
...both then, and now...but I contend that this position is not what you are NOW suggesting that it is. In our previous discussion, for example, you said...
Have you considered the list of genocide by non-christians? Look at the past century. Atheism is innocent prior to that because they never had a whole country to play with. Now that they have, I don't think you want your religion judged by the standard you set.
As usual, you position plays fast and loose with the definition of what is or is not a religion, and mistakenly attempts to paint atheism (which is not made up of sects that instruct its followers in a set of common beliefs) with the same brush as religion (which IS made up of sects that DO instruct its followers in a set of common beliefs). You have then (and are now) using this shell game of imagined similarities to HIDE the fact that many religions (specifically including all of the Abrahamic sects) include an inherent component of violence in their core theology which directs their followers explicitly to kill people who don't believe as those religions say that they should. Your position fundamentally misrepresents the motivations behind people like Stalin (whose murderous tendencies had no causal relationship to the fact that he was an atheist) and people like Pope Urban II (whose declarations of genocide were intimately entwined and very specifically presented as a religious duty to his followers).
Your comparison is as flawed now as it was then, and to suggest that it isn't just one more example of the basic disingenuity that pervades your pro-religious/anti-atheist rantings.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
A question of love.
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
...as long as we are clear that I never actually said it.
The conclusion supported by these facts is that Atheism has not shown itself to be superior to ANY religion (whether it is one itself or not) with regard to preventing genocide and mass murder.
The 'core theology' of Marxism explicitly calls for 'bloody revolution' and Atheism. Apparently killing is quite compatible with the missing manual for atheists as well. At least most of the religions you apply your vitriol toward also call for compassion and mercy, unlike your chosen substitute.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
- William Shakespeare
...the depths of inconsistency--and quite frankly, dishonesty--to be found in your arguments, both past and present. But your comments here are demonstrative of several causal fallacies. For example, you admit in your comment that atheism is a component of Marxism, but then attempt to blame atheism as a whole for the murderous violence of a Marxist tyrant. This is a post hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacy (also known as a "coincidental correlation" for the Latin impaired). Your argument fails because all atheists are not Marxists, and there is nothing inherent to atheism (which, technically speaking does not have a core philosophy as it is a lack of belief rather than a belief in and of itself). When we return to the example of Pope Urban II's instructions to his flock to kill an entire race of people because "christ demands it," then the relationship between religious belief and the attempted genocide which follows IS causal. Perhaps not ALL religions include specific instructions to murder people in their holy books, but the ones that seem to come up most often (i.e. christianity, islam and judaism) most certainly do.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
A question of love.
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
"...attempt to blame atheism as a whole for the murderous violence of a Marxist tyrant."
Does being a murderous tyrant violate ANY principle involved in Atheism?
This apparent compatibility does not make every one of either group automatically a member of the other. IF I had said that it did as YOU LIED to claim I had then a fallacy would be present.
It appears you think lying is compatible with your religious values as well as murder. Why does your bigotry lead you only to attack others religions? It seems that perhaps you might try saying something positive about the benefits of your own beliefs/lack of beliefs if there is anything.
---
An Atheist tyrant COULD choose not to murder his own people, but he will still be just as good an Atheist if he kills millions of them, as many have without any moral conflict at all.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
- George Bernard Shaw
Does being a murderous tyrant violate ANY principle involved in Atheism?
Of course it doesn't. Why? Because atheism isn't a system of principles. Atheism is a lack of belief in supernatural beings and forces. That's it. It doesn't tell you how you should live or how you shouldn't. Like so many religious people, you are confused on this point and insist on projecting your sectarian-based world-view onto the question.
This apparent compatibility does not make every one of either group automatically a member of the other. IF I had said that it did as YOU LIED to claim I had then a fallacy would be present.
I'm sorry, but this statement doesn't even make sense. Please clarify what you are trying to say (if that is even possible). As for the question of who is lying, I'll leave it to our readers to judge our respective credibility and honesty for themselves.
It appears you think lying is compatible with your religious values as well as murder.
Your criticism is flawed, because I do not have any religious values. That's the whole point of being an atheist (see above).
Why does your bigotry lead you only to attack others religions?
Only "other" religions? I have a healthy disdain for ALL religions, thank you very much. I just focus on YOUR religion when talking to YOU because in that circumstance it is the most relevant and easiest to provide examples to which you can relate.
It seems that perhaps you might try saying something positive about the benefits of your own beliefs/lack of beliefs if there is anything.
If I were to stretch, I could say that atheism "benefits" its proponents by allowing them to free their mind from the insanity which is acting out on the basis of imaginary forces. But, atheism doesn't really provide "benefits." It is a position on a the truth-value of a specific type of claim about the existence of "gods." That's all.
TTFN,
Blackout
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An Atheist tyrant COULD choose not to murder his own people, but he will still be just as good an Atheist if he kills millions of them, as many have without any moral conflict at all.
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A question of love.
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
"Of course it [being a murderous tyrant] doesn't [violate any principle of Atheism]. Why? Because atheism isn't a system of principles. Atheism is a lack of belief in supernatural beings and forces. That's it. It doesn't tell you how you should live or how you shouldn't."
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Atheism says nothing about what you should believe. Atheism say nothing about how you should act. Atheism forbids nothing and allows anything. So basically Atheism is nothing with regard to religion, philosophy, or morals.
How do you defend 'nothing' from an argument that was not presented by anyone and avoid feeling paranoid? Or do you?
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chillbill:
blackout:
It may be possible to agree with you, but difficult when you are bent upon discrediting of all religion, and I am reducing your lack of religion to its equivalent. None the less here is the same position restated:
"This apparent compatibility [between murderous despotism and atheism] does not make every one of either group [murderous despots or Atheists] automatically a member of the other. IF I had said that it did, as YOU LIED to claim I had, then a fallacy would be present."
You do so like to add YOUR chosen implications to my statements where I never placed them, so IF you think ANY fallacy exists within a statement I actually did make please include the quote so I will not again mistake you for a liar.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
- George Bernard Shaw
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Atheism says nothing about what you should believe. Atheism say nothing about how you should act. Atheism forbids nothing and allows anything. So basically Atheism is nothing with regard to religion, philosophy, or morals.
Not believing in Big Foot "forbids nothing and allows anything" as well. Does that mean that a murder who doesn't believe in Big Foot commits his murders because of his cryptozoological skepticism? And if you agree, then why did you claim that the murderous actions of a tyrant like Stalin was a result of his atheism?
How do you defend 'nothing' from an argument that was not presented by anyone and avoid feeling paranoid? Or do you?
Sigh...you always seem to forget that we can just look back up the chain to see what you said.
Hitler isn't even in the top man this century, although a couple of atheists hold down the top two spots:
Mao- 70 million
Stallin- 20 million
As the record plainly shows, you were trying to make that argument, and only now after having had your argument deconstructed are you attempting to backpedal (as usual).
It may be possible to agree with you, but difficult when you are bent upon discrediting of all religion, and I am reducing your lack of religion to its equivalent. None the less here is the same
Unfortunately, ALL RELIGION falls prey to the same basic failure of logica and reason which led me to consider myself an atheist. I have offered you the opportunity MANY TIMES to defend your particular brand of religion, but in every case it ALSO has failed to deliver even the most basic elements that would compel a rational person to treat it any differently than the rest. Until at least ONE person can provide at least ONE example of an argument in support of religion that is based on actual, objective evidence, I will continue to maintain the position that ALL relgions, without exception, are nothing more than exercises in futility and foolishness. And as for the particular religion which I provided as an example, above (i.e. christianity), I will continue to point out that much of the violence that is committed in the name of that religion is actually proscribed specifically in the contents of the holy texts of that religion...a fact which lends credence to the conclusion that there is a direct connection between those commandments and the acts of those who follow them.
You do so like to add YOUR chosen implications to my statements where I never placed them, so IF you think ANY fallacy exists within a statement I actually did make please include the quote so I will not again mistake you for a liar.
I have provided those quotes, more than once above. Please read what was written, and try to keep up.
TTFN,
Blackout
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A question of love.
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I'm not quite sure which part of the simple fact you find objectionable.
Do you think the two mentioned are not first and second place?
...are not Atheists?
...didn't commit any mass murder?
Obviously no one but you claimed there was a causal relationship between Atheism and Mass murder. I simply pointed out a FACT you are in denial of the IMPLICATIONS of...
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"This apparent compatibility [between murderous despotism and cryptozoological skepticism] does not make every one of either group [murderous despots or cryptozoological skeptics] automatically a member of the other. IF I had said that it did, as YOU LIED to claim I had, then a fallacy would be present."
I am always amused by how dense you can choose to be.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
- George Bernard Shaw
...you seem to hoping to dance away from the consequences of the passive aggressive shots that you take. Rather than just speaking plainly, you love to take these kinds of shots at people who have bested you in prior arguments, so that you can play the "everyone is lying about me" card (a tactic you use quite often, and which our readers can explore by following the link I provided). I think that it is plain to our readers that you did in fact attempt to suggest a causal relationship between atheism and the murders committed by these tyrants. There really is no other rational reason for you to have made these comments when you did and in the way that you did.
Even if we were to interpret your argument in the most generous way possible, it would still be a flawed comparison (and that is being VERY generous), because the fact is that there is not causal relationship between the atheism of people like Stalin and the murders he committed as a Marxist tyrant, but there IS a causal relationship between (for example) the Pope Urban II's chrstiantiy and the murders that he caused through his religiously-driven, biblical supported assaults on the non-christian people of the Asia Minor.
As far as I am concerned, you can paint yourself into whichever corner you wish at this point. Either you were making an attack against atheists that you cannot support, or you were defending christians by suggesting inaccurately that their religion is not inherently violent on a theological level. Take your pick.
TTFN,
Blackout
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A question of love.
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
"you did in fact attempt to suggest a causal relationship between atheism and the murders committed by these tyrants." [emphasis added]
I am quite capable of Actually making any statement I intend directly rather than merely an 'attempt to suggest' which 'our readers' need you to reinterpret for them.
Falsely accusing is lying. Or are you attempting to suggest that you have divined my unstated intent through some Wicca magic you practice? Insisting that you know unstated intent might be seen as psychic, by the superstitious, if you were not so wrong.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
- George Bernard Shaw
...but due to the skinny box (which I hate) I will allow our readers to judge for themselves who is the more credible commentator at this point.
And "Wicca Magic?" That doesn't even make sense.
TTFN,
Blackout
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A question of love.
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Or are you attempting to suggest that you have divined my unstated intent through some Wicca magic you practice?
I'm not altogether sure how this part of your statement is relevant?
To be honest, I'm not even sure why it caught my attention, but it did. The last time Blackout and I spoke, he was no longer a Wiccan... which (if I'm remembering correctly) renders this statement completely irrelevant unless you were perhaps either a) forgetting that point or b) were trying to make another point that I have missed?
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"when you have nothing else to say, "Fwonk" is always the perfect thing."
"yeah well, fwonk"
--Devon
Fanaile Essence
...beyond reading and rational thought has apparently informed him of my unspoken intent.
He used to think he was able to cast magic spells. It seems to me that he still believes that he is empowered with second sight by some supernatural means.
Just a guess.
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."
- George Bernard Shaw
...because you aren't nearly as complex a person as you like to "think" you are.
TTFN,
Blackout
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A question of love.
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
But there is one thing we can say about God. More deaths have been result of his name than the combination of all the wars that America has been in. Apparently, God is responsible for more deaths than Hitler;
Hitler and even God were pikers when it came to mass murder.
The real players in that game were athiests! Stalin is credited with about 15 million political deaths which is more than double Hitler's total. And Chairman Mao is attributed with at least 7 million and sometimes up to 40 million political deaths. Both committed massive genocides by deliberately causing massive famines and starvation.
Between these two athiests, who were motivated partly by a stated desire to stamp out relligion and God, they managed to kill far more people than EVERY proceeding religious war in human history combined.
As I read your blog, it seems your biggest problem with God is that he is a killer. If that is the criteria, it seems to me that you should redirect your anger at athiests and particularly at communist athiests.
...many of which stem from the post hoc fallacy of attributing the politically motivated violence of tyrants like Stalin and Mao to their atheism. The flaw occurs in the fact that by and large, atheists do not belong to sects that provide them with pre-determined beliefs and motivations for thier actions. That he and I share a belief on a particular point of reason is coincidental, and unlike the christian religion, atheism does not have a central figure or doctrine around which we define our lives and "morality."
It is also important to remember that atheism is not a belief, but rather a lack of belief. The atheist makes his own choices about what is moral and what is not, and so falls or stands upon his own responsibility. In fact, it is the construction of religion that allows christians to place the blame for the evil acts described in the bible onto the "will" of "the LORD" that makes these bloody events so common in its history.
Most religions are different in this respect, because they DO have codified sets of beliefs that inform their decisions, and in the case of many religions (christianity and islam being perfect examples) those codified beliefs include a great many literal expressions of violence that can be religiously justified.
The motivation for the massacres under Stalin and Mao was not to spread atheism. Rather these maniacal leaders were motivated by their desire to spread communism. I don't lay the violence of every person who has ever claimed to be a christian at the feet of the religion of christianity. I do however attribute the violence, that was specifically motivated by contents of the bible and ordered specifically by the church in order to enforce or expand its dogmatic influence at the feet of the religion. When you have a holy book that says, "kill person X," and then a member of your chruch goes out and actually kills person X specifcally for religous reasons, then there is a causal connection. I do not think you can genuinely justify this sort of connection between atheism and Stalin or Mao.
TTFN,
Blackout
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A question of love.
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I cant believe you got hit so hard. Most good christians should cry for the apparent ignorance of your statements but i dont believe they're as ignorant as you make them sound. you obviouslly believe in a god, saying "fuck god" wouldn't matter if you didn't. what im wondering is why, if you believe in god and feel this way, would you even say anything? I mean if god is so cruel and so uncaring why would he give a care to how you feel about him. and if you think that provoking him into plagueing you for your insolence, or lacking of such plagueing, is evidence that there is or isn't a god, then you are completely mistaking. say you were to come down with some sort of sickness, say somthing like leperasy from biblical times. you would declare that god had stricken you with the infection for your blasphemous words, but no one would believe anymore because of it. you would believe and you would be as blind by god as the ones you mock for following him by your words. in all actuallity the infection would probably be explained as a virus that had adapted into a supervirus mimicking the effects of leperasy and then the claim you had made would be discredited as just another faith hungry diciple of christ. that would cause someone down the line to make another anger fueled post such as this in hope to be affected the same way to prove, as you seem to be doing, that god exists. i dont know if this analytical rant has helped at all, i hope it hasn't hurt, i just felt that you needed someone to understand and identify with you or you wouldn't have posted such a ridiculously provoking statment.
locke
Yes, I know this argument well. The absentee landlord argument? Only you forget, the land lord can return at any point in time. And it's the landlord's land. But let's get right to your attempt at glamorizing an argument, that is stupid in itself. You did this purely for show.
You want us to believe God is either impotent, or unwilling to intervene. But yet, you're so willing to blame God for Human Free Will. Something bad happens, it's God's fault. Something good happens, it was you're own doing. You want to make choices, but not own up to the fact that you have the rite to make bad choices?
I think the thing you haven't reconciled in your head is the idea of the purpose of evil in universe, created by a good and omnipotent being. If God is that which none greater can be conceived, where does evil fall into God's plan.
I guess the problem you face, is that the people you argue with, have a faith in something they cannot see tangibly. But how do you know this for sure? How do you know if I am lying, if I say I know or see God in my life? How do you know God got my daughter through a major surgeory? How do you know God didn't keep my wife and me from dying in a house fire? How do you know God didn't send me to this site to say my peace? How do you know that it's not God's voice telling me not to put a gun to my head, when life get's too tough? You don't!
And also, I mean, if there is no God...Then, there are no rules. What's stopping me from doing what I want to whom I want? Even you...There is Good in the world too! Or did that thought escape your mind? Take a look at the ocean, or the mountains, or my baby's eyes, when he sees me in the morning!
There is a God, you just don't want to find God. But when you are dead, and you pass onto the next life, what will you say to God? You can't prove God doesn't exist, you just don't like that the rules don't meet your needs. War can always be avoided. Human Suffering can be avoided. Greed and Fear can be avoided. It's humanity repsonsibility to do the right thing.
I am not saying that you don't have a valid point, but as a finite being, you really aren't qualified to judge the infinite. Or can you see into the future, or know the mistakes of the past, and not make them again? You created the solar system?
But the thing I truly don't get about your statements, is why would you disrepect the creator of the universe. If I had God's powers, I wouldn't care what anyone thought, and just eliminate you from existence...But then, what kind of God would I be?
I guess I believe God is merciful, knows all, and has reasons for everything. Not that I want to incure God's wrath, and end up like Job. I just think we as humans could take more repsonsibility for our actions, and stop throwing the arguments at God. I believe God wants the best for all of us, even you sir. Whether you say "FUCK GOD" or not.
But the difference between you and me. I just have faith. Simple faith. But don't think that I haven't run this argument in my head for years. But because you say "FUCK GOD", I am supposed to bow down to your superior intellect. Sorry God's been doing this longer than you have.
To argue these points only validates, that you haven't resolved the issues in your own life with God, but if you see this an adverserial positioning, you won't see the Good. You won't know the true God. But this is probably all for show anyways...
"And also, I mean, if there is no God...Then, there are no rules. What's stopping me from doing what I want to whom I want?"
I wouldn't say that. I would say that morality is a social construct that bases right and wrong on societal beliefs, with many things crossing societal borders because of an ingrained social aspect in our evolution that shows us that societies that do not work well together don't last very long.
What's stopping you from doing anything you want? Fear of repercussions, in this life, a perceived duty to society, the desire to be liked or thought well of, just being a plain good guy or any other number of things.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
Benjamin Franklin
Why does our government have the death penalty or even life in prison for that matter? Do you disagree with punishing a person's actions that are harmful to others? Anywhere that the Bible said to put someone to death was specifically a punishment for something God had instructed his people not to partake in. If you choose to follow our government by being a citizen than you have to follow the laws and accept the punishments, otherwise it would just be anarchy. It was the same way with the laws that God gave his people. But if you really paid attention to Biblical theology then you see that God makes a new covenant with his people by sending his son to die for all of humanity. Christ carries the burden of punishment so that God's people won't have to die but gain life instead. Under the new covenant, anyone who loves God and asks for forgiveness will recieve it.
If you could know when you were going to die and how would you want to, even if you couldn't change it? If you could know every choice you would ever make without being able to change it, would you want to? The truth is nobody would really want to know what was going to happen. There is no surprise, no excitement in life. That's why God created people with free will, including free will to screw up like your Ted Bundy. If a parent controls every aspect of their child's life the kid will hate them. If you look at Biblical theology than you'll see that God wants his children to grow in their relationship with Him. Why create them at all if their hands would already be played out for them?
You have entirely too many unfounded arguements here to even consider reading them all but just for one more or your series of questions:
"If you do believe in god, why only one god? Where does god reside? Why doesn't god acknowledge his/her creation. Why are we so offended if I curse a figment of our imagination?"
If you are asking someone if they believe in God and continuing to ask why only one God, than you are assuming that they do believe in God. So if you assume that your target believes in God than why would you need to ask why they are offended when you curse a figment of their imagination? Shouldn't it go without saying that if they do believe in God than to them it's not a figment of their imagination and therefore it is LOGICAL for them to be offended. That's not even going into your change in pronouns from "If you" to "Why are we" and "our imagination" Your final question is erroneous on more than one level since it is YOUR belief that God is imaginary and the question forces that belief onto the audience.
... if you don't use it?
(1)Punishing a person for doing something that is harmful to others in the society is one thing, but all too often God's death commandments are not for that type of crime. For instance, included in God's death commandments are homosexuals, people who work on the Sabbath, women who are not virgins on their wedding night, and even animals owned by enemies of the Israelites.
Furthermore, it is well-recognized concept that the punishment must fit the crime. Biblically prescribed punishments rarely do. It is not OK to stone to death disobedient children. It is not OK to stone to death an adulterous couple. It is not OK to stone to death an accused witch. Nor for that matter is it OK to NOT punish a person who beats his slave in which the slave is only incapacitated a few days.
(2) You claim God made a "new covenant" with his people, but it never seems to occur to you to ask why such a "new covenant" was needed? Did God screw up the first one? One might expected a God to be smart enough to have come up with a workable solution the first time.
(3) The foundation of your "new covenant" is an affront to human intelligence. Jesus dying on the cross 1900+ years before I was born absolves me of absolutely no responsibility. It could not possibly do so. The only way it could possibly have any effect is that God arbitrarily decided that he would no longer hold people responsible for their sins on the condition that one accepts Jesus as their personal savior. In that case, Jesus death was unnecessary. He could have imposed that condition without any suffering on Jesus' part.
You may be impressed with such symbolic acts, but I find any unnecessary suffering barbaric and abhorrent. Of course, I don't believe God doesn't exist so I believe that Jesus died because a convincing case was made that his teachings were fomenting rebellion.
(4) The free-will argument is absolutely stupid. (a) No one who uses it ever defines in a useful manner what they mean by free will. (b) They also seem to think that it is either free will or absolute mechanical robotism as the only option. (c) Even then, the argument boils down to God thinks it all important that one has the option of doing what he doesn't want one to do, but will sentence the person to an eternity of torture if he actually go ahead and does it.
(5) I suspect that children would hate their parents worse if they were so hands-off that they never even appeared before their children. If God REALLY wants a relationship then all he has to do is show up.
(6) Assuming that you quote whoever it is you are responding to correctly, the person did not ASK "If you believe in God" and then ask "why only one god". Every thing was a single statement. He statement can be rephrased as such: "Assuming you believe in God, why only one God".
(7) You have every right to be offended by whatever it is you want to be offended by. I have every right to say things that may offend you. I believe that religious beliefs in general are accorded a much higher level of respect than they deserve. Religious claims concerning the natural world are subject to verifiable scrutiny and logic. That includes things like the origin of the universe and the life in it to claims about moral codes. I think that when looked at LOGICALLY most such claims fall far short of not only what one would expect from a superior being, but also far short of what we would expect from a not-particularly good human.
Cheers,
Darwin's Beagle
Having faith in reason alone may be a bit too high a bar for you.
Loved this bit:
"Of course, I don't believe God doesn't exist..."
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"If God REALLY wants a relationship then all he has to do is show up."
I would adore hearing the precise visual and auditory sensations that you think could 'prove' to an open minded person such as yourself that you were in the presence of the one and only creator of the universe.
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Almost every bit of the rest of this seems to be a claim that you are smarter than God.
Good luck with that.
I do think you could make a case for having more education than many authors of 5,000 years ago.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
- William Shakespeare