It was while I was driving home from work, rocking out to the Beatles. All of the sudden, a painful bright light shown in my eyes like a slap to the face. My vision cleared, and it was then that I realized that it really was a slap to the face. An abnormally small newspaper had taken that very opportunity to fly through my open window and try to ram its pages up my nose. After nearly avoiding a resulting head-on collision, I discovered its name to be "Tony Alamo - Christian Ministries."
The featured article was written by the none other than Tony Alamo himself, entitled, "The Looking Glass." Since God wanted me to read this newspaper so bad as to make me come so close to a pre-natural death, I thought it'd be best to take a look-see. Safely in my driveway, I read the first 2-pages to find that my man Tony had had a late-night vision of a mirror, with Jesus inside. Jesus had no scars, and was the most handsome man Tony had ever seen.
Jesus spoke, but Tony understood none of it since it was like listening to a radio being turned on and off. Apparently, poor Tony wasn't praying enough. Jesus was symbolizing Tony's lack of communication through...bad communication. Only Jesus can make two wrongs equal a right, for from that day on, Tony devoted his life more and more to "praying always...and praying without ceasing."
But now that Jesus had Tony's attention, he was able to get a word through to the pastor: "Not now." You see, Tony was so excited to see Jesus and heaven in a mirror within his bedroom, he thought he was being taken to heaven. And in doing so, Tony had forgotten his family and all his responsibilities. Second test: Failed. Through an interpreter, Tony later learned that Jesus wanted Tony to go forth and spread the word, for if he didn't, he'd "be accountable for all of [the millions of souls he could have saved] at the judgment bar of God."
I didn't read much farther, something about the ring of doom and the end of the world... But, this, this damned newspaper right here in my hand, is why I hate religion. Besides this hallucination that could have been a lot more exciting, the Christian church puts unrealistic pressure on all of its members. It is impossible to pray all the time, thanking God for each breath I take. It is impossible to always seek Jesus with "all my heart, soul, mind, and strength." We are born into sin not because of our nature, but because no one, no one, can fulfill God's desires. Not even claiming to have the "Holy Spirit" can change the guilt that comes with failing God day in and day out. That is why I left the church.
A worthy attempt, God, but you're gonna have to do better than that.
I'm sorry you feel that way man.
I think the world today has brought a bad picture to Christianity, yes even because of certain Christians too.
I personally think you can give God everything, it's simply a journey that takes time and Gods love to get you through.
Why would you want to give God everything? More importantly, why would God want to take everything you have to offer? People's thoughts and love and energy would be best spent doing great things for humanity and the ones they love, instead of spending all their mental energy on pleasing God.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
Purity Balls: For the Rich, White, Christian and (Slightly) Perverted
You just explained the actions associated with giving God everything.
When you give God "everything" you want to, it's becoming a slave for righteousness.
Being a slave? Sounds like fun.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
My Latest Blog Posts
"People's thoughts and love and energy would be best spent doing great things for humanity and the ones they love, instead of spending all their mental energy on pleasing God."
Basically what being a "slave for righteousness" means. Not that you're trying to be "perfect" or constantly please God, but serving others in love, etc.
In other words, I think you're both saying the same thing.
I still have a problem with the whole slave thing. I have absolutely no problem being the good Samaritan and whatnot, but with Christianity comes the feeling that you are "slave" to being that Samaritan.
One short sleepe past wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
-John Donne
"You dirty minded wiper of other peoples bottoms."
"If you do not tell me where to find a shrubbery, I shall say Ni to you."
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Are you trying to suggest that the fact that some zelous guy said he saw Jesus in a mirror isn't proof enough for you?
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
Just because he says he saw Jesus, doesn't mean that Christians agree, we all have free will, that includes the freedom to lie.
And if you have faith. I believe anything is possible.
What? All I am saying is that this seems like inadequate proof.
Funny thing about what you claim faith is like. Evidence can be offered, but only to those who don't need it. People who want concrete evidence in order to believe don't get it.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
I'm trying to understand what you're saying by " Evidence can be offered, but only to those who don't need it"?
Okay I assume you mean faith is not fact based?
Which is not true in a sense, but very true in another, faith is believing with out so much as seeing physically.
Though many people say they saw Jesus perform miracles, not just a few, many men of all walks of life including smart, ignorant, poor, rich, they all were touched by Jesus in some way and in such a way that they totally were changed.
You know these evolutionists tell me that they wont believe in something they cannot see, something that cannot be proven, yet they still cannot prove evolution, they've done many lab tests and nothing.
Is a blind man supposed to deny that we are not human as he is human, because he can't see us?
Is a person with multiple sclerosis supposed to deny that things are not just in his mind, because he cannot feel them?
I believe even so called evidence in this life takes a great deal of faith to believe, you can prove anything in your mind as being the truth, you can also as being false, but the truth doesn't change because your mind changes, reality will set in regardless of whether or not we have much proof for it, no proof for it, or some proof for it.
I just want to let you know that I believe God loves each and everyone of us, not just the ones who know him and believe in him.
Those who sin with out knowing the law, are judged with out the law, but those who know the law and deny it, will be denied justice.
Jesus took our punishment, he is the judge and the justice.
"Though many people say they saw Jesus perform miracles, not just a few, many men of all walks of life including smart, ignorant, poor, rich, they all were touched by Jesus in some way and in such a way that they totally were changed."
You could say the same about countless magicians and showmen. Take Yuri Gellar for example: millions of people believed that they saw him perform supernatural fetes and even when he was exposed as a phony by James Randi on the Johnny Carson show, people still suspendde their disbelief and continued to believe he had supernatural powers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w7jHYriFo
Peter Popoff convinced many people that "they all were touched by [him] in some way and in such a way that they totally were changed". His ministry made millions conning people with a faith healing scam that convinced them he had performed miracles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BQKu0YP8Y
If we teleported David Blaine or Derren Browne back to biblical times, I'm pretty sure we'd be hearing about the thousands of people who had witnessed miracles too.
"Is a blind man supposed to deny that we are not human as he is human, because he can't see us?"
A blind man has other senses at his disposal which he can use to detemine that. But essentially, if he didn't, it would be his call as to whether or not he wanted to believe based on the available evidence. But would you tell a blind man that he would be tortured for eternity in a mythical place where agony never loses it's novelty if he refused to believe that we are not human as he is? Do you consider somebody who makes a choice because there is a gun to his head, to be exercising free will? Would you not determine that his choice was one based on self-preservation and born of fear, rather than a truly free decision? Atheists assert that you are free to chose what you want, whether that is a Theistic belief system or an Atheistic one, you will not be punished for eternity regardless of what root you take; that's free will.
"you can prove anything in your mind as being the truth"
Not if you have any concern for true knowledge and it's role in establishing truth, you can't. If you don't care about that, then yes, you can make believe whatever you want to be true; the mind is very powerful and is more than capable of rationalizing anything you want to soothe cognitive dissonance if you willfully allow it to delude you.
"the truth doesn't change because your mind changes"
I couldn't agree more. Especially since that relegates this next bit to the realm of wild specualtion, not truth:
"I just want to let you know that I believe God loves each and everyone of us, not just the ones who know him and believe in him.
Those who sin with out knowing the law, are judged with out the law, but those who know the law and deny it, will be denied justice.
Jesus took our punishment, he is the judge and the justice."
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I have been told that to get proof I need faith. Your god would know, however, that to have faith, I need proof. The only options are that god doesn't care, doesn't exist, or wants me to go to hell.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
"That is not dead which can eternal lie / And with strange aeons even death may die."
H. P. Lovecraft
There are always more options. If you choose to ignore them and blame God for your choice that is sad and ironic. Could he want WILLFUL love? Not forced love.
---
"to have faith, I need proof."
That is pathetic, if you think it is reasoning, and wish to base your beliefs on reason. Try to at least look up those words: 'faith' 'proof'
If god showed himself to me, he wouldn't be forcing me to follow him, I'd just be a moron not to. Similarly, just because I can observe my parents exist and I interact with them, I don't have to believe in them, but once again, I'd be stupid not to. Him being god, he would know my nature. He would know that nothing I have seen has given me reason to believe in him and that I won't believe in him without a reason. If he does exist and sends me to hell, or allows me to go to hell, or whatever because I don't believe in him, I can blame him for that and it is not in anyway sad or ironic. It is his will and edicts that will have doomed me to that fate and he has done nothing, so far, to give me reason to avoid it.
Thank you. I know that proof denies faith. However, plenty of people deny that their faith is not proven. My statement does still stand, in a way. I will not have faith unless I am given a reason to. I have never expirienced anything that has given me reason to have faith to believe in god.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Observing God directly is something all of us do every day. It is the complexity of God that prevents this from making all of his qualities aparent to any of us.
If you and I enter a room we both see it. If we each write a short description of that room it is very possible that no part of the description will match. The greater the complexity of that room and its furnishings the more likely it is that our descriptions will both be factual without having any common ground.
Also the more different the backgrounds we each come from will effect the chances of any part of the description overlapping.
Any specific viewable sight may be something other than an all powerful God. It could be illusion, or something the observer just fails to understand. All magic is engineering beyond the observers knowledge.
Your understanding or belief is from your mind. Religious teachings are just trying to point the way. A riddle, not a story. Saying it is stupid does not mean you have figured it out.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
Oscar Wilde
And just by saying that you see god in everything doesn't mean that he really exists. As far as I can tell, that is the core of your argument.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
1- Many people have told me that in order to expirience all these really terrific things that proves god real, I have to believe in god.
2- Evidence has to do with what can be observed, however, that does not mean only with your eyes. It means with all your sences. It is also something that can be tested. As for your comment about evolution, Darwins Beagle has written a thousand blogs on the subject, all of which explain how evolution can be and has been tested far better than I can.
3- The only source for all these people seeing Jesus perform miracles is the bible. I have absolutely no reason to believe this source seeing as almost nothing can be verified and it is full of contradictions.
4- These people with disabilities cn observe the world in different ways, making use of their other sences. I have never senced anything that would make me believe in god.
5- The world can be observed in many ways. Life can be observed. I do not need faith to believe that the world around me exists.
6- I don't know, but love and eternal condemnation to hell are two concepts that really don't seem to fit.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
Friedrich Nietzsche
"And if you have faith. I believe anything is possible."
Which is precisely what makes such faith ridiculous and which makes those with it so gullible.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I'm not saying I think that guy actually saw Jesus in his mirror, there's a large chance he was reaching.
What I am saying is, that if many of our scientists and mathematicians didn't have faith that something else was out there to be discovered, they never would have looked for it and as a result they never would have found what they did.
In my opinion everything revolves around faith, usually a different type of faith in each instance but still faith.
I believe when you truly have faith in Jesus Christ and live for him, you are transformed not by a Brain washing doctrine, but by the Holy Spirit.
I can empathize with you also, I used to think people like me were crazy until I took the risk and found true life.
What's the risk in living for Christ if there is no risk because we just die?
"What I am saying is, that if many of our scientists and mathematicians didn't have faith that something else was out there to be discovered, they never would have looked for it and as a result they never would have found what they did."
True, but their faith leads them to proactively question the viability of what they have faith in, with an aim to replace their faith with knowledge. Many Christians don't test their faith in any kind of honest fashion, they do the opposite, they pretty much just block their ears and make believe. A scientist applies rational thought as a tool in his quest to convert belief into knowledge, a Christian merely rationalizes his beliefs to himself and falls back on circular logic.
"What's the risk in living for Christ if there is no risk because we just die?"
I can't fake belief.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
"True, but their faith leads them to proactively question the viability of what they have faith in, with an aim to replace their faith with knowledge."
That is sometimes true, or it can strengthen their faith, to find what they had faith in all along.
But the point is that they had that irrational faith, or rational faith in the first place.
Many Christians don't test their faith in any kind of honest fashion, they do the opposite, they pretty much just block their ears and make believe.
I agree with you very much, I think there are many people out there blindly following a trend or some sort of societal dogma, and to be honest I hate that.
I was always critical of Christianity, I wondered how God can be defined by man if he is in fact greater than man, what I came to discover is that we cannot define him as we want, I believe he is what he is regardless of what we want him to be, just because we think him to be something does not mean he is exactly that, but I believe he knows we make mistakes and would not wrongfully judge us.
It's hard not to stereotype and I often do, because I believe this to be a very stereotypical world, yet I have learned that you can not judge a doctrine or belief on one or more people, I believe it is something you have to find for yourself.
I always felt I was being forced to do things and not being explained why I should do those things, I found that I was usually under estimated in knowledge and ability.
It was until I truly said, God if you're there, I'm taking the risk, I have nothing to lose please show me who you are, I looked for my self and found new life, a life I never knew before, a life pushing me away from feelings that at one point felt so natural, but at another point it was pushing me towards feelings that seemed I was always meant to feel and never truly allowed myself to, due to societies influence on me and who they said I should be.
I'm telling you out of my own mind, you might think I'm crazy, maybe I am, haha but I know how you feel man, maybe not exactly but in a way.
I believe it's a matter of just exploring, opening up your mind and heart to feel what God can do.
I truly believe if you just give him a chance he'll change your life for the better.
I personally believe we all have the right to make our own choices in life and I don't mean to push my ideas and opinion on you.
I believe if what you do or believe does not harm anyone or take away there God given freedom than you have all the right to make that choice for yourself.
I love to pray, and it really isn't that hard to pray all the time. I'm not sure why you think that would be hard thing to do. Its not much different than having a girlfriend, or if your a girl then a a boy friend, then again if you aren't straight, well you get the point. Anyways, if you have a significant other then you are expected to talk to them a lot. To have a relationship with God, then you talk to him in prayer. You've never thought it an unreasonable requirement to have a girlfriend have you?
But with a girlfriend, she talks back. Its one of those nice little perks that comes from talking to a real person. Besides, I love my girlfriend, but I don't worship her.
What do you get out of praying to God? Does he talk back? Do you feel the Holy Spirit? Personally, I felt nothing, so I quit. A big decision, but quite a simple one really.
One short sleepe past wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
-John Donne
Fine sense of humor.
I find the paper you describe at least as unworthy as you do, but far from reducing my faith the story reinforces it. That is probably a difference in perspective. I have faith in a God that is exactly equal to the truth. How can anything a man says or does affect that?
My simple perception of how things work is regularly affected by the accounts told to me by men, yet I still believe there is actually a truth. I believe things are exactly as they are no matter how I believe. My perception shifts, but reality is what it was before and after that change.
'It is impossible to always seek Jesus with "all my heart, soul, mind, and strength."'
You are misconstruing the instruction that you love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, and strength. Jesus said it, but not about himself. God in this reference is the creator and controller of all of existence AKA The Truth.
Choosing to do anything other than love the truth is pretty darned foolish if you ask me, but you didn't. Or did you?
"you're gonna have to do better than that."
Perhaps being unbiased, admitting your own opinion is no more valid than other naked apes' and loving truth more than any misunderstanding could be 'better than that.' After all Tony Alamo isn't that hard an example to exceed.
Okay, from all this gibberish I've been able to deduce exactly two things:
God = Truth, and that I should love him for being so.
I have never heard of loving the truth, but I think it's a bogus concept. I can choose to not love the truth if said truth is something that I hate (ie, my ex-stepdad exists, but I hate that truth because I don't want him to exist).
I can accept the truth of a situation, but loving it for being the truth that it is is a bit far fetched.
One short sleepe past wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
-John Donne
God = Truth.
It may be necessary for you to leave the word God out of the concept all together. That would be true if you have a preconceived notion about the properties of the owner of that name. The ancient Hebrew god was not to be named, because any name represented a graven image. That is who Jesus was referring to. Such a large concept that any name tended to reduce a persons understanding for a being so vast that all names were inadequate.
Hating any part of the truth is equal to a willful ignorance. Being wrong on purpose is way too common in humans. We are very limited creatures, so ignorance in many regards is inevitable. Hostility toward what we know to be true is avoidable.
If you made a list of the teachings of Jesus from least intuitive to most obvious the 'love your enemies' command would fall very near the top. it is a necessity if you love the truth.
Free will allows you to choose hate over love. How is that different from choosing evil over good?
You know, I don't think you realize that you don't make half as much sense as you think you do. For your past two comments, you seem to have a central idea which you touch on, but then diverge into something else that may sound like it could be related, but really it just doesn't fit with anything. Even by itself, it doesn't make sense. I dunno, maybe it's just me...but probably not.
BUT, hating the truth is not the same as willful ignorance. That is ignorant. Like I said, there are truths that I acknowledge but do not like. Once again, I will use an example to clarify. There is gravity, it is the attraction between two objects, it keeps my feet firmly planted on the ground, (i.e. the Law of Gravity). It is truth. But, say I want to fly, I would hate gravity for keeping me down.
There is a wonderful difference between hating and accepting truths. I hope you can accept that. Whether you hate it or not does not affect its level of truthiness.
One short sleepe past wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
-John Donne
"all this gibberish"
"I don't think you realize that you don't make half as much sense as you think you do."
"it just doesn't fit with anything."
"Even by itself, it doesn't make sense."
Help me out by being a bit more precise about the part you don't think is reasonable. Quote the statement I make then demonstrate the fallacy/nonsequitor/giberish.
---
"Whether you hate it or not does not affect its level of truthiness."
Actually Love, Hate, acceptance, and denial are all attitudes within the person that has them. The truth is reality independent of that attitude (although the attitude is an element of reality).
I hope that you are at least aware that your attitude is a major factor in your actions. Also your actions are how you influence the world around you. Thus with attitude you create the world you live in. I also hope you have observed two people in a nearly identical situation that behave differently and achieve results as different as night and day.
Jesus was not saying that you had to love the truth. He was just saying that it was the single most important thing you could do to improve your life. You or I could take this as secular advice and benefit superstition is not required.
I have watched love caring and actions motivated by these attitudes do vast good, and even succeed when there appeared to be no hope. I have also seen hate and indifferent acceptance cause and allow horrors to go on for want of nothing but a simple effort. I've even been personally responsible for both sides. Perhaps to you indifference is equal to love, but to me there is a world of difference, and I KNOW which side I am on.
Do you?
"BUT, hating the truth is not the same as willful ignorance. That is ignorant. Like I said, there are truths that I acknowledge but do not like. Once again, I will use an example to clarify. There is gravity, it is the attraction between two objects, it keeps my feet firmly planted on the ground, (i.e. the Law of Gravity). It is truth. But, say I want to fly, I would hate gravity for keeping me down."
Would that hate help you to fly?
Seems like cultivating that hate would lead to frustration, while loving gravity enough to study it to calculate the amount of lift needed to over come the gravity force might be one step toward building your airplane.
Love is constructive.
Hate is destructive.
Let's slow down a bit here.
I think you are oversimplifying this, even though what I'm trying to say is pretty simple. Right now you sound a lot like Kitty Farmer from Donnie Darko with her "Love-------Fear" line. You do not have to love something to work hard for it, or, for that matter, to acknowledge its existence. And again, hating that something will not affect its level of existence.
I really feel examples are the best way to go here, but you keep putting holes in them. I work hard in Organic Chemistry, but I will rue the day I ever decided to take that class. And gravity and my douchebag of an ex-stepdad will still exist whether I want them to or not. I'm not submitting myself to willful ignorance, nor am I trying to destroy either of them with my negative thoughts.
Even though their existence is in itself a form of truth, I simply do not like them.
One short sleepe past wee wake eternally,
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.
-John Donne
The multiplicity of equally vialbe definitions for the same word are the worst problem.
Other than the fact that I want the best for everyone I am not motivated to 'convert' you to any specific religion. If I ever pass a plate your way feel free to take something out, or put something in as your need dictates.
Religion is not just some superstitions about invisible men. If it were the success rate would be much lower. It also includes teachings that benefit people with regard to their atitudes, and behavior relative to their peers. Those teachings are accumulated knowledge that your ancestors suffered to gain (just like organic chemistry).
I would like to see you respect the teachings, without being irrational about it.
If everyone had more love and respect, and less disrespect, and hate or even indifference it would be a better world.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
Oscar Wilde