I see that the repbulican base relies heavily on support for the NRA, and hey who doesn't love people who lobby to keep guns despite the fact that there seems to be no other reason to have them other than to protect our country in a time of war, and then its for the soldiers not the general public. SO why if they seem to serve no other purpose that what was previously mentioned, why does America continue to cling to guns?
I'm not seeing the purpose, would this country be a better place if there were no guns, whose to say? From my perspective I dont see the reason for keeping them, (leftist pov) but that is me. Form what I have found we are only suprassed by Mexico in shooting each other. (source) Now there are many different reasons for crime but is it wrong to say guns are a part of them? While there is a low gun murder rate but high gun ownership doesnt indicate that guns have a direct relationship on crime, it doesnt say that they don't. but how do you go about managing having all those guns and not worry about how easy it is for someone who shouldn't have a gun to get one. So for a while so that i can develop my thoughts please comment and tell me what you think
If you take all the guns from the citizens... only criminals and the government have them.
People have a right to protect their families and hunt if they should so choose.
Somehow I always find myself agreeing with you, lol. See my defense below.
A wise person (I don't know who) once said...
Great minds think alike!
: )
Did you know that counties that ban guns are the ones that have more of a problem with weapons?
My boyfriend is the owner of a gun, and I grew up with guns in my house (locked up of course) and therefore I learned to be safe with a gun, how to handle a gun, and how to respect a weapon. The problems lie with idiots like the group I saw at the shooting range last Sunday who roll their eyes at the idea that they have to read rules to stay safe. Those are the people who accidentally shoot their friends.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If you take away guns problems will get worse. Not only would we not have anything to protect our homes with, but people will be making their own explosives and finding more "creative" ways of hurting each other.
How is taking away hunters' guns going to help our country? How is taking away the right to a concealed weapons permit (which you have to go through leaps and bounds to get) going to keep us more safe?
the only real problem that i have the the ease in which someone can illegally aquire guns. while im thinking more on the argument of how to get rid of the need of guns, im going to edit this post so that it include the whole argument, of what to do and how to keep poeple safe without needing guns
the knowledge that in every breath, every second that we take, we are that much closer to death...
I think you are missing the point here; the point is that there are still going to be people out there with guns even if they aren’t supposed to have them. In Alaska, you carry a gun to protect yourself from the wild life, take that away from them, and they have no way to fend off a bear or moose. I am a proud supporter of the NRA and I also believe in the fact that people should be allowed to carry a gun in the open and no one should be able to say anything about it. If we all carried a gun in the open, do you think the gang members and terrorists are going to mess with us? Maybe they will, but less likely because they will be afraid of getting blown away themselves. The problem with the Anti-Firearm people out there is that they don’t realize that their ancestors were carrying guns way before they were born and back then there wasn’t as much crime as there is now because of the way they handled things back then. We had more peace back then. Now we have to figure out new ways to defend ourselves because of people who want to rid the public of firearms so they can bring "peace" back to America? Give me a break, the only thing that is going to do is render us defenseless and give the criminals and terrorists the advantage. Open your eyes, look around you, do you want to die fighting with dignity, or cower before those who have the upper hand because of people who think we should have guns?
... except that every society that has sought to oppress the people started by disarming them.
Hitler disarmed Germany, THEN proceeded to kill the jews. Pol pot, disarmed the people, Stalin disarmed the people. Have you heard about the genocide in Darfur? Those people were disarmed.
The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear firearms will not be infringed.
I carry a pistol whenever I can. I worked hard to get that concealed carry permit. Our schools raise our children to believe that guns kill and that if we just didn't have them, things would magically be peaceful and good.
Gut Check time: Guns cannot be good or evil. firearms in the hands of the Good are used to fight and defend against the Evil.
The evil people do not care about laws and would LOVE to see a ban on firearms. Then they no longer have to worry about people defending themselves. They know the odds are uneven, in THEIR favor.
Be independent. Don't believe what our schools have taught you. Firearms save lives when Good men and women are able to use them to fight against those who would rob, hurt, rape or kill you.
It is not the role of the Government nor the police to be your personal security force. Your security is your job. Police are there to maintain law and order, not to fight for you in an emergency.
I often find it amazing that the same liberals who get upset when the police taser someone want to produce an environment where those same police are the only ones armed.
Educate yourself about guns... even if you never plan to own one:
Read lancekates blog. There's some great articles about safety and responsibility in there that everybody should read and be aware of.
(I do the shameless plug so you don't have to.)
: )
:)
I always appreciate a plug, no matter how shameless. lol.
I like your blog as well, especially the recent meat thread.
I was very disappointed in the lack of response on that one.
Apparently vegans and vegetarians are cowards as well as hypocrites and liars.
LOL.... I like your bite. Oh, if only you were single and nearby, I'd take you out to a steakhouse to talk about such things.
being a vegetarian is just a fad with no actual science behind it. At least, no science more reliable than the kind that Al Gore makes use of. heh.
Im not strictly against guns I dont thin that magically if you take guns away from people that things will get better, even if your taught things life that its easy to see that it isnt true, I aslo know that the gun is a tool and just like any tool it is not aligned, how its used will depend on the specific intention of the person
for the most part im trying to find out a way for the us not to need them anymore.
the knowledge that in every breath, every second that we take, we are that much closer to death...
i wouldnt call my self a liberal in the same way that most liberals are, i dont care about a warrented pilice tazer, i the suspect looks like he will get violent then defend yourself but make sure that he is going to actually assault you, meaning wait for him to try to strike you, if he's yelling then there is the possiblity that he will lose it, try to calm the situatiion down before resourting to physical force.
the knowledge that in every breath, every second that we take, we are that much closer to death...
The US isn’t exactly a civil, decent society. Its gun culture is engrained into the national psyche. And to me, learning to handle a gun is part of what it means to be an American.
It’s just like social drinking. I never understood why people enjoy parties where people stand around gabbing for countless hours while holding glasses of wine. These people slowly and gradually get louder and louder and more obnoxious as they constantly refill their glasses and time goes by. And this is supposed to be enjoyable? But this is just what I did recently; just to be social in an American context, except for the fact I just literally hold the wine for the few hours at the party, and I only pretend to be obnoxious. :)
It’s the same thing with guns. It’s so engrained into the culture and so many people own them, it just feels wrong not to get one yourself. I keep mine in a bolted safe. But I am most definitely not a gun nut who thinks it’s okay to go carrying it around everywhere.
But you know, in a way, I see gun nuts as fulfilling their own prophesy. By very far, the major reason illegal guns are flooding the market is because they are stolen from legal gun owners. These legal gun owners then buy themselves more guns to protect themselves, which is then stolen again. Then the cycle continues. It’s an arms race legal gun owners are perpetuating with illegal gun owners that can not be stopped.
Since this is the case, it’s only prudent that you at least know how to handle a gun. And why not have fun with it at the shooting range every once in a while too?
Why would you steal a gun if you could buy it yourself?
This "illegal guns market" you are talking about just doesn't make sense. I'm not worried about the guns that people can steal from registered owners... I am worried about the guns they can obtain which aren't legal. Guns that are automatic weapons, higher firepower, or other qualities that can't be obtained by the typical gun owner. This is just perpetuating the cycle of criminals having weapons more powerful than civilians. Not sure what my point is... just that it's a good one to make. : )
His point is that criminals almost NEVER have a gun that is registered to them.... and with very few exceptions, are they allowed to own a gun.
Generally, with very few exceptions, the criminal uses a stolen gun to commit a crime.
That, apparently, is why we should keep guns out of the hands of legal gun owners...
Because criminals use guns.
The reason they want to take away guns is why I would rather be armed.
As for fully auto guns, they do require very special permits to get. However, despite what the movies say, they aren't used in crimes.
Even the dreaded 'assalt rifle' is almost always mislabeled, as neither the press nor the populace knows what those are.
Right... I knew that I just wasn't expressing myself properly. As in these guns shouldn't be illegal at all.... It's pointless to outlaw some types of guns, because the criminals are going to have them anyway. I can see the logic behind why you would want to do it, but it still makes sense not to using the logic of why you wouldn't want to outlaw all guns. Just my opinion.
they are rarely used in crime but altogether they are still used, check out the source artical for the post, the whole definition of AW is sketchy, but it has a definition of AW
the knowledge that in every breath, every second that we take, we are that much closer to death...
First, I'm not overly fond of your implication in this:
The US isn’t exactly a civil, decent society. Its gun culture is engrained into the national psyche.
I think people tend to be rather civil if they are armed. Remember that most rampant arguements take place in bars, protests and the internet, none of those places tend to involve lots of shootings or guns.
However, Gun Ranges and Gun Shops tend to be very civil. odd how that works.
However, I wholly agree with this:
And to me, learning to handle a gun is part of what it means to be an American.
It is part of the reason why we are the greatest nation on Earth.
However, your connection to drinking parties is not quite accurate. Today's American culture is becoming VERY anti-gun, having been taught in schools for a few decades that guns are evil and kill people.
I find your mental leap to be more of a cliff-diving event, when it comes to legal gun owners being the reason for illegal gun owners.
That people illegally have firearms, and use them to do evil things, is a reason why legal gun owners keep and bear firearms. Legally. Despite your best efforts to misinform the people as to the results of firearms being carried by law-abiding individuals.
actually talking about fear. Japan, for instance, is what I call a civil society. They can't own guns, and there was only 53 shootings last year -- in the entire country! It seems they don't need the threat of gun violence to bring their crime rates down. That's a good thing.
Illegal gun owners steal them from legal owners. Legal gun owners buy more guns. The cycle continues non-stop. So it isn't a mental leap. Illegal gun owners certainly don't steal them from gun shops. Imagine if that happened. The most vunerable targets are the legal gun owners, and the market of illegal guns come from them.
Can you think of any other situation where illegal gun owners have a chance to obtain their guns, except by robbing legal gun owners?
Have you ever heard of trafficking?
For one thing, how are you going to get rid of all the guns that are already out there?
Then, what are you going to do with all the businesses who go out of business, all the people who lose their jobs, because there are no more guns?
And how the heck are you going to stop people from bringing in guns illegally in the first place?
Japan doesn't need gun violence because compared to our crime rates, they don't have to protect their homes from burgulary; they don't have to protect their daughters from rapists and their children from kidnappers. Definitely not as much as we do.
Bad guys will always be bad guys, whether we can protect ourselves from them or not.
but worldwide weapons trafficking problems that organizations are concerned with are light weapons such as assault weapons and grenade launchers. Handguns are easily assessable to everyone and it's not profitable so it's generally not illegally trafficked unless it's to countries that have complete bans on weapons. And even then, that's very slow business.
Gun crimes in America are generally not committed with assault rifles and grenade launchers; they are committed with formerly legally owned handguns.
But anyhoo, I seriously doubt the gun business would suffer because as I said, this country is not a civil country. People do not respect each other. And the populous will not submit to a weapons ban. Therefore, we do need guns for our protection.
However, it still holds true that legal gun owners are in a continual arms race with illegal gun owners simply because of the number of stolen guns from legal owners. It's a dumb cycle. I wish one day, people will start behaving better with each other as in Japan and give up feeling the need to have guns.
"so it's generally not illegally trafficked unless it's to countries that have complete bans on weapons. "
This is exactly the point I am trying to make.
People seem to think that by banning guns, our problems with them are over. But if we banned them, traffickers (if that's grammatically correct) would make a huge profit off of the cheapest .22 they could find.
Basically I agree with you... but I don't think we should ever have to give up our guns.
--
I'm not a hunter, but my boyfriend, my entire family, and my neighbors are... and you don't know what good meat is until you've tasted wild game (as in not shot in a wildlife or hunting reserve). Take away our guns and I don't get fresh venison anymore. And I wouldn't be very happy about that.
Besides, to keep arguing on behalf of hunters and their weapons, can you imagine where the animal population would be if hunters were unable to hunt? Deer would starve to death, bears and cougars would rampage the forest and end up in our backyards eating little Fido and Fluffy and we wouldn't have any guns to protect ourselves or our pooches or our children with.
It's a never ending cycle, yes, one that we can not end by giving up guns.
The top three worldwide crimes are
1. Drug Trafficking
2. Weapons Trafficking
3. Trafficking of persons (www.fbi.gov)
Take away the right to bear arms (and not keep them locked up 24/7) and the people who aren't supposed to have weapons will still have them, leaving the rest of us, who maturely handle our guns like responsible citizens, defenseless.
Drugs are illegal, and we haven't stopped them from being a problem. Is there a connection?
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you, BurningExample.
Just because we shoot each other more doesn't mean we kill each other any more. For Example: The UK has very strict gun laws, but if Scotland were an independent country, it would have the highest murder rate in the first world.
ok. I am a republican.... I have owned a gun since i was 4 years old. I know how to use it, clean it, take it apart, fix it, and i know that is has no brain, no organs; its not alive is what im getting at. That gun cannot do a thing unless it is in the hands of a living human being. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. I completely have the right to own a gun. My biggest passion in life is hunting. And yes i am a member of numerous conservation groups to conserve the species that i hunt. It is the one and only way i bonded with my father and i have grown up doing it. Also, if someone breaks in my house, i will shoot them, period. they have no reason coming in without permission, so if im asleep in my bed and someone breaks in, i have to assume the worst possible thing,,, that they are gonna kill me. so im gonna do it to them first.
We as a country like to take things away from other countries that are dangerous. Why do we have a problem with disarming our own people? We take the wepons away from other countries because they hurt people. Are we going to be hypocrites and not do the same with our own people? Countries without guns at all see signifigantly less gun violence than America.
Faith is like a glass of water. When you're young, the glass is small, and it's easy to fill up. But the older you get, the bigger the glass gets, and the same amount of liquid doesn't fill it anymore. Periodically, the glass has to be refilled.
-Dogma
Why do we have a problem with disarming our own people?
Its called The Bill of Rights. The right of U.S. citizens to bear arms is a fundamental guarantee in our Constitution.
We take the wepons away from other countries because they hurt people.
No, we don't. We take weapons away from SOME countries (and GIVE weapons to others) because doing so protects the security and/or advances the interersts of our nation.
TTFN,
Blackout
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Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
In taking wepons from other countries, we try to protect the people in this country, however, we cannot even protect the people in this country from wepons. Why is it neccisary for an average citizen to have any kind of gun other than a hand gun?
Faith is like a glass of water. When you're young, the glass is small, and it's easy to fill up. But the older you get, the bigger the glass gets, and the same amount of liquid doesn't fill it anymore. Periodically, the glass has to be refilled.
-Dogma
...for "why" they want to exercise their constitutional rights. But for the sake of argument, the Supreme Court has ruled that the Second Amendment permits the ownership of such weaponry to be consistent with the need of citizens to defend themselves, both in the home and (as the Court notes) when “the intervention of society in his behalf, may be too late to prevent an injury." But even MORE importantly, the Second Amendment serves to provide the citizenry with the means to resist an oppressive government, noting that the basis of this Amendment lay within the experiences of history that had led citizens to be "extremely wary of concentrated military forces run by the state and to be jealous of their arms."
TTFN,
Blackout
“[I]t is a natural right which the people have reserved to themselves, confirmed by the Bill of Rights, to keep arms for their own defence.” ~ District of Columbia Et al. v. Heller (2008)
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Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
After the show of force at the RNC, I am very aware of how easily the government could become a threat against which ordinary citizens could have to defend themselves. (Wait...did that make sense?) I'm not about to hole myself up in an off-the-grid compound or anything, but the shoot first, ask questions later approach of many law enforcement officers gives me pause.
"Never go with a hippy to a second location."
~Jack Donaghy
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Countries without guns at all see signifigantly less gun violence than America.
That is a masterful statement of the obvious. If a country was "without guns", then there could be NO gun violence.
Mexico has much stricter gun laws then the United States, It is completely illegal to own a gun there, But they have MUCH MORE gun crime.
I wonder why????
Maybe because they are still getting them ilegally?????
Logic obviously is not thier strong suit.
The reason Americans are so gun crazy is their entire psyche is geared to alarmism. throughout history USA has always been pointing a finger somewhere! The commi menace, red tide, etc...... Its always LOOK OVER THERE!!!! WE NEED TO PROTECT OURSELVES!!!!!....if the states spent half what it does on its military on health care and research against disease, the world would be a better place!
There is no problem with people who hunt....the problem lies with why the NRA insists that these 'hunters' have access to automatic weapons with armor peircing rounds, explosive bullets and a whole host of other nonsense that lies well outside the intention of the founding fathers of the constitution!
Granted that proper training should be mandatory for anyone purchasing a firearm, but its not! Any idiot can go buy a weapon and kill someone, or themselves! I call it accountability.....there isnt any....nor will there be any until groups like the NRA pull thier collective heads out of thier collective butts and get real!
I compleatly agree. While I personaly do not like hunting, I recognise that people will not give up their guns. You stated more or less what I was trying to say.
Faith is like a glass of water. When you're young, the glass is small, and it's easy to fill up. But the older you get, the bigger the glass gets, and the same amount of liquid doesn't fill it anymore. Periodically, the glass has to be refilled.
-Dogma