Why do people think that being gay is wrong? You can not help who you love or even who you are attracted to. It’s almost like people are afraid that just by standing in the same room as someone that is gay it might rub off on them. People that are gay or even bi-sexual are people too, just the same as you and me. The only difference is that they are attracted to the same sex. They love and cry. They feel pain, and unfortunately they are forced to feel like there is something wrong with them, like they are diseased, just because they are different.
In school you always hear that you should strive to be the best person that you can possibly be. Be yourself, an individual. Don’t be afraid to be different, to go against the grain. So why is it that when people do go against the grain, when they choose to love someone of the same sex we punish them. We call them horrible names, make fun of them, even distance ourselves. There is nothing wrong with it.
I am a Christian, I go to church and I love god with all my heart. But I can still disagree with some of the things in the bible. It says that marriage is for a man and a women, true. But if two people of the same sex are in love, love each other with all their hearts, why not let them get married? Who are they hurting? NO ONE! There will always be people that are attracted to members of the same sex. They will date, fall in love, and be happy together. So why not let them get married?! I don’t see why it bothers people, they are just like anyone else, two people that fall in love and want to be together until they die. Sorry if this sounds rude, but I don’t think that anyone should be able to stand in the way.
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I'm with you on this. I am a Christian too and I go to church, but sometimes I get so mad at other Christians who think they have a right to tell people they are wrong for being gay. It's cruel and hurtful, and we don't have the right to judge others, only God does.
Let me know where in life does going against design was healthy? Have you tried breathing water with your lungs? Homosexuals are going against design. Is this ignorant thinking? I and billions more think not. This is obviously why humans are still around; because most use some sort of discretion and reason. Also because homosexuals, gays, etc, are not more than 2% of humanity.
Once again, a reminder:
Legs are for walking,
eyes to see,
ears for hearing,
men to women.
For every design there is purpose.
If your design is to go against design, let it be, but don't drag others with you.
Your irrational ravings continue to astound me.
"It makes sense that homosexuals would want to confuse children..."
How utterly ignorant. Once again, your opinion is clearly contrary to the extant evidence. I realize that it is futile to suggest, but perhaps you would like to educated yourself regarding the current state of the research into the viability of gay parents and the effects that they have on their children...
Lesbian & Gay Parenting
As this summary will show, the results of existing research comparing lesbian and gay parents to heterosexual parents and children of lesbian and gay parents to children of heterosexual parents are quite clear: Common stereotypes are not supported by the data.
In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbian women or gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of lesbian women or gay men is compromised relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth.
http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html
Furthermore, your arguments from "design" are clearly religious in nature, and despite what you may believe do not represent a rational--much less scientifically sound--opinion.
percivale
...to share the contents of a private message that our "friend" gayminded just sent to me.
From: gayminded
To: percivale
Subject: Re: Happy to see you !
Date: Tue, 04/17/2007 - 7:00am
No amount of information will ever change my opinion about whats in order and whats not.
This statement pretty much shows us exactly what we're dealing with here. Our "firend" isn't at all concerned with anything except his own opinion, and has rejected without consideration any evidence or information which contradicts his hateful ranting. As such, I see no reason to further feed this now self-admitted troll.
Thanks for playing, gayminded.
percivale
Does that mean I should feel guilty about sending him to prison when he has sex with a baby/child? NOT.
Homosexuality is not natural and is forbidden in the Bible just like having an animal for a sexual partner is forbidden. Since when is it up to me to censor God's word and say that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. God says its wrong, therefore it is. You can't have your cake and eat it too. To be friend of the world is enmity against God.
How much of God's word will you ignore or argue against to make yourself "cool" in the eyes of the world? If you are a Christian, it seems like you are skating on thin ice when you say it is okay to sin.
You don't have to hate the sinner, just the sin.
...is not only completely unsupportable but down right mean-spirited.
To again quote that American Psychological Association...
Another myth about homosexuality is the mistaken belief that gay men have more of a tendency than heterosexual men to sexually molest children. There is no evidence to suggest that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to molest children.
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html
Part of the reason that I have so little patience for religious fanatics is that they are willing to make shit like this up in order to further their personal crusade against anyone that doesn't share in their hateful beliefs.
As for what the bible says, it isn't really relevant, since as you well know I am not a christian. As such, and since we don't live in a country where you can force me to do otherwise, I will keep my own counsel concerning the nature of my beliefs. You might as well be asking me not to ignore a Superman comic book, and at least Superman actually stands for a philosophy that is extended to all humans equally.
percivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
I can see you believe deeply in a 'design'. [Content edited for violation of TOS]. Well done. You hit the mark squarely on the head.
Oh, and change your name. [content edited for violation of TOS] you give gays everywhere bad name.
Oh, and it's WAY more than two percent. That number only constitutes gays that are public. In the last 2 years I've gone out with SIX girls that were supposedly straight. Everyone has a gay side. It's just that some suppress it, and some embrace it.
It's like I've always said about gay marriage, on that same note. Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get one and shut the f*** up, k?
That's my pissed-off rant for the evening. Enjoy.
-(not so) Inept
You have a unique voice, so bravely verbalize your thoughts and opinions. The only person that can stop you is yourself.
Legs are for walking,
eyes to see,
ears for hearing,
men to women
Legs can be for pedaling a bike, eyes can be for flirting, ears can be for holding up glasses, a man can build a life with a man and a woman can build a life with a woman. Your list shows only some of the uses of legs, eyes, ears, men and women. There are many more and the ones I've listed are no less appropriate than the ones you've listed.
Millions of words, sources, quotes, won't take away the simply obvious...
Let me know where in life does going against design was healthy? Have you tried breathing water with your lungs? Homosexuals are going against design. Is this ignorant thinking? I and billions more think not. This is obviously why humans are still around; because most use some sort of discretion and reason. Also because homosexuals, gays, etc, are not more than 2% of humanity.
Once again, a reminder:
Legs are for walking,
eyes to see,
ears for hearing,
men to women.
For every design there is purpose.
If your design is to go against design, let it be, but don't drag others with you.
I'm only going to deal with one problem in this. Although I don't beleive that human's are designed, let us assume for the moment that they are and I'll just contradict you on you're own ground.
"Let me know where in life does going against design was healthy? Have you tried breathing water with your lungs?"
Vaccines. If humanity was designed, it was designed to be vulnurable to diseases. Vaccines stop us from being vulnurable to certain diseases. This is obviously healthy.
I have not tried breathing water with my lungs. I use my feet for that.
"Homosexuals are going against design. Is this ignorant thinking? I and billions more think not."
What about everyone who does think that this is ignorant thinking? Just thought I'd say that first.
If everyone was designed, then a homosexual person is designed to be homosexual, so obviously they are not going against design.
"This is obviously why humans are still around; because most use some sort of discretion and reason. Also because homosexuals, gays, etc, are not more than 2% of humanity."
most of us use discretion and reason- this conept suggests that everyone has homosexual urges (intersting, because if they did, they would be designed that way) and that people fight against them. Now, I know that I have never been sexually attracted in anyway to another man. It is incredibly illogical to assume that a person is sexually attracted to the opposite sex and then decides that they're going to be attracted to the same sex. This is like saying that somebody who is 5 feet tall decides to be 6 feet tall and voila, it happens. Your last statement makes it seem that you think homosexual people and people who are gay are different. This can only mean that you are using the word gay to mean happy, which you shouldn't, because that usage of the word is no longer a common part of the spoken English language. I am, however, sorry to hear that 98% of humanity is unhappy.
"Once again, a reminder:
Legs are for walking,
eyes to see,
ears for hearing,
men to women."
Legs are also for sitting.
"For every design there is purpose.
If your design is to go against design, let it be, but don't drag others with you."
What this seems to say is that if you are designed to be homosexual, you shouldn't practice homosexuality with other people, even though these people are also desinged to be homosexual.
The fall of man in the garden of Eden is where everything got messed up; sickness, sin, tragedies, etc., came into the picture. God created everything perfect. He gave us free will to make choices so we were not just little robots. We made the mistake and that is why things are not the way they are supposed to be right now.
What you are saying still implies that everyone is heterosexual and they then choose to become homosexual. This doesn't make sense.
How are things supposed to be. Two naked, stupid moronic people wandering around a garden?
What I am saying is that everything was perfect before the fall of man.
There was Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve.
Homosexuality did not exist then; nor did murder, stealing, etc. Not until satan came into the picture.
"Put your faith completely in Jesus Christ, not in any man or any movement."
~ Robert L. Sumner
> What I am saying is that everything
> was perfect before the fall of man.
And how, exactly, do you know this? You do realize, I hope, that mthycial stories like this aren't literally true. If you DO think that, well, there's not much hope for having a rational conversation with you. But then, we've already established that, I suppose.
> There was Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve.
*percivale slaps his knee* Wow...that's just so original. I mean, "Adam and Steve"...lol...why hasn't anyone ever thought of that before?
But seriously...here's a question for you that sould at least demonstrate the foolishness of confusing biblical myths with literal history.
If Adam was the first man, and Eve was the first woman, and Cain and Able were their first children (both male), who did Cain marry?
> Homosexuality did not exist then;
> nor did murder, stealing, etc. Not
> until satan came into the picture.
That's a wonderful myth, but like all myths it is likely to be more metaphorical than literal. After all, we know that homosexuality has existed pretty consistently throughout recorded history, and the demographics across geograpic and cultural lines is remarkably consistent, so it is unlikely that the practice simple "sprang up" after someone wrote a story about two naked folks taling to animals and living in a garden.
I really don't want to just point and laugh, but you're making it difficult not to.
pecivale
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
If Adam was the first man, and Eve was the first woman, and Cain and Able were their first children (both male), who did Cain marry?
*sighs* percivale, we've already established that Adam and Eve had daughters too. It doesn't make it right (incest and all), but it at least explains where the women came from...
Additionally, the Bible tends to recount things out of order, so Cain and Abel weren't necessarily Adam and Eve's first two children. In fact, Rashi says that Cain had a twin sister, and Abel was a triplet:
Cain… his brother Abel Heb. אֶת קַיִן אֶת אָחִיו אֶת הָבֶל The word אֶת, is repeated three times to suggest additional things. This teaches that a twin sister was born with Cain, and with Abel were born two. Therefore, it is said: וַתֹּסֶף, and she continued, or added. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, 3]
http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=8168&showrashi=true
Buuuuut... I know that doesn't matter much to you. I found it interesting, anyway.
~C
Visit my blog: www.progressiveu.org/blog/mvenus929
Read the news: www.progressiveu.org/news
...but I was trying to make the point to STAB that taking the literal KJV (or similar English translation) of the bible as precisely literal will usually leave you with a great many unanswered questions.
Thanks for messing it up.
percivale >:P
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"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
I have bookmarked this resource link for further use, thanks once again.
And it is very interesting to study the Jewish commentaries on the Torah and other parts of the OT; they are the keepers of the Book, after all.
"Put your faith completely in Jesus Christ, not in any man or any movement."
~ Robert L. Sumner
The gene pool was diverse in these just starting out. They married their sisters or nieces and had families.
Also remember they lived much longer than people do now.
And just bc the homosexuality sin existed for all that time does not make it acceptable.
For your information, Genesis is not a myth. It is a literal account of the creation. You can laugh at me all you want, Percy. That is your free will and option to do so.
Have you ever wondered what if I'm right and you're wrong? I will live a great life, get to spend eternity with my loving Father and family, and not have to go to hell. But if I am wrong, I will still be happy and live a great life.
"Put your faith completely in Jesus Christ, not in any man or any movement."
~ Robert L. Sumner
> Cain married his sisters or half sisters
So, do you believe that the practice of incest is biblically supported?
> The gene pool was diverse in these just
> starting out. They married their sisters
> or nieces and had families.
How do you know that the "gene pool" was diverse? Certainly, you don't have a sample of Cain's DNA for us to study, so what is driving your assumption in this case? Considering that we DO know a great deal about how DNA and gene pools work, and that your more than 2000 year old story is completely contrary to what we know, doesn't it seem more likely to you that perhaps the story is completely accurate?
> Also remember they lived much longer
> than people do now.
Again, what is your proof of this other than the circular reasoning of saying that the bible is true because the bible says it is true?
> And just bc the homosexuality sin existed
> for all that time does not make it acceptable.
Now you're just being petulant again. I can almost hear you stamping your foot as you write this. But back to the point at hand...you statement contains one fact and one opinion, and based on the observation that you were uniformed about the fact, I am not inclined to attach any great credibility to the opinions which follow that ignorance.
> For your information, Genesis is not a myth.
> It is a literal account of the creation.
Actually, unless you can provide us with actual, concrete evidence that proves that the account in the Genesis "is a literal account of the creation," then yes, I think it is quite clearly a myth.
Myth - A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/myth
Are we going to have to go through the tiresome argument once again which begins with you claiming that your religious beliefs are absolutely factual and true, and ends with you admitting that you really can't prove ANYTHING and are basing your entire opinion on a matter of faith?
> You can laugh at me all you want, Percy.
> That is your free will and option to do so.
Honestly, I don't find you funny anymore. I think your situation is really pretty sad, if the truth was known.
> Have you ever wondered what if I'm right
> and you're wrong?
Sure. I wonder about that every time we speak. But then I take what you say and weigh it in a reasonable fashion and reach my conclusions accordingly.
> I will live a great life, get to spend
> eternity with my loving Father and family,
> and not have to go to hell. But if I am
> wrong, I will still be happy and live a
> great life.
That you "will live a great life" is pure speculation. Unless you are claiming that you possess the supernatural ability to see the future, that is a matter of pure speculation.
As for the rest, that is an old argument, and it is a logical fallacy (i.e. an appeal to negative consequences). Personally, I have no real respect for someone who choses to be religious just so the can "hedge their bets." Saying that you believe simple because the consequences of possibly being wrong are just too horrible for you to handle is a pretty crappy reason to choose a religion, in my not so humble opinion.
oercivale
-------------------------
"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
have to sign up for our ministry school and send me an application along with your tuition to my address. I think you are the only one interested in this discussion at this point.
"Put your faith completely in Jesus Christ, not in any man or any movement."
~ Robert L. Sumner
...go ahead, but I think that your numerous, hysterical postings on these topics demonstrate that it isn't a lack of interest, but rather a lack of success that is motivating you at this point.
As for your "school," the first thing I would want to see before sending you any money would be your credentials as a teacher and an expert in your field. I sincerely doubt that you could produce either.
percivale
-------------------------
"Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici." ~ V.
Actually that is what you are saying.
I'm not going to quote directly, because in the Torah, it's all spread out, but this is the life in the Garden of Eden.
Lots of animals, including at least 1 talking EVIL serpent. Lots of plants and trees with fruit that could be eaten. Adam and Eve walking around basically with the intelligence of children. Because Adam and Eve are both, essentially, stupid, they are able to be tricked by the serpent (who, I guess is Satan). Now, it says that god created the serpent, so god put two blithering idiots in a garden with a tree that he tells them he can't eat from. There is also an insidious snake that god has created so he knows about. It's almost like god was setting up Adam and Eve to eat the fruit.
THIS is the Judeo-Christian image of paradise on Earth?
If you want to take this literally, homosexuality didn't exist because there was 1 man and a woman. Murder didn't exist for the same reason. Stealing didn't exist because there was no property.
1 more thing:
"Put your faith completely in Jesus Christ, not in any man or any movement."
~ Robert L. Sumner
Jesus Christ was a man and Christianity is a movement. You just happen to think that they're right.
We were given free will and the right to make our own choices and decisions. God even told the man to guard the garden(in case the snake showed up to tempt him). Without a free will, people would have been no better than programmed robots. I don't think God would have stood between them and the tree and stopped them from making the choice bc then they would be prisoners.
Remember that evil is not created it is manifested. Lucifer became evil and began to manifest evil thus becoming satan(adversary). God is making use of this event (the fall of Lucifer) in order to prepare people for the next age. Right now, people are still learning from their mistakes but when the new age is brought in by the reign of Jesus Christ, things will be restored to the paradise state once more. God does not force us against our will to do what He wants; and He will not interfere in our lives unless we pray and ask Him to. He is a gentleman. Satan, on the other hand, will force people into things.
You are right that I do believe Jesus is "right"; however, I can't speak for the various religions or churches claiming to be Christians since I know some of them are not "right". I am totally against cults that use people for their own gain such as the one I grew up in.
Do you have a copy of the Torah or Chumash? The Jewish commentaries are fun to read
"Put your faith completely in Jesus Christ, not in any man or any movement."
~ Robert L. Sumner
I do have a copy of the Torah. Unfortunately, I only got through the first 3 books. (There's only so much I could bare to read about taxes and the census)
So you are, in fact, saying that being stupid and living in a garden with endless amounts of food is paradise. Pardon me for saying, but I like being smart.
So, then why should some humans try and stop other humans from commiting sins that have no effect on anyone else? If god won't stop a sin, what right does man?
How do you know that your interpretation of Christianity is any more right than any other interpretation? For that matter, how can you really KNOW that Christianity is more right than any other religion?
I just perused the rest of the commentary above and got lost!
First of all, Creationism is funny.
Second of all, I think that homosexuality can be a choice but mostly it is not. Maybe we should ask a homosexual before we start spouting off our opinions. I am heterosexual, by the way, and I don't feel I have a choice in the matter, but I have found other women attractive, and have even made out with a couple. I think possibly that there are people out there who get sick and tired of failed relationships with the opposite sex and make a conscious decision to become lesbian or gay. However, I think that the majority of homosexuals are born that way. Why would someone CHOOSE to live a life that so many people were against? Why would someone CHOOSE to be ridiculed, discriminated against, beaten, or even killed over who they prefer to have relations with? Why would you CHOOSE to live a life where you couldn't marry the love of your life, where you couldn't enjoy the many benefits of heterosexuality, where if your loved one were to end up in the hospital, you may not be able to stay in the room with them? Why would someone CHOOSE to be shunned by society at large? Why would someone CHOOSE to live a life where it was difficult to find a television show that was not mocking the gay lifestyle, where it is difficult to find a greeting card to give your lover, where there is virutally no representation of your life in the movies or in the music industry? To me, it just doesn't make any sense. If you could choose to live life as a heterosexual or a homosexual, given the way society is today, which would you choose? I would choose to be a heterosexual. But, the thing is, it's NOT a choice for most.
Like the original post said, homosexuals, in the end, are merely human. The same as you and I. We are all the same, people. And we would all be alot better off of everyone pulled their heads out of their neighbor's bedrooms and started worrying about their own lives. Let people LIVE how they want to live, as long as it doesn't harm you. If Tom and Jerry want to get married, what is the big deal? Tom and Jerry getting married have NO EFFECT on my life in any way. I just don't understand what the problem is.
I dont know why people thing gay people are wrong.
If it was wrong, God wouldnt have created gay people.
you are born gay, its not a choice.
People claim to be democrats but think gay people are "gross".
It;s so weird.
One of my best friend's parents sent him to a mental hospital for being gay. No matter how much I scream and rail against his parents, the community, the world, they still broke my Zachary. He used to be so full of life, but now he's reclusive, angry and bitter. I want him to know that I love him, I always will.
Pray for Peace
-Crissy
http://www.progressiveu.org/180016-deconstructing-sexuality-im-here-im-q...
This is also a good post to look at.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/infinitymachine