First, you must understand the context of Rev. Wrights message. If you read carefully in my earlier threads, I along with clergymen have said that it is a tactic to stir up debate, like the one we are having, to present a radical view. Once this radical view is presented it is up to the congregation(us) to settle on to what degree the view is upheld.
These things are no different than questioning your parents as a child, in order to gain a better understanding, once they have explained further. If we, as Americans, just believed anything our government told us we would be foolish, particularly in the African American communities.
This is the question is for you. I hope you can answer it truthfully and with an open mind/heart. Maybe then YOUR own answer might provide some insight as to the often subdued feelings of the poor & working class african american.
Here we go.
Lets say that you grew up in the care of your family. You were extremely loved as a child and only knew people who "cared" for you. Now lets say, one day you learned that the family who lived across the street sold your family their home. Your home was considerably smaller than theirs. This part did not bother you.
However, as you grew older and did your own research into the origins of you family, you realized that your family had spent their entire lives working for the family across the street to pay for what they believed was a lovely home. However, during your investigation you also uncovered that the price your family paid for their home was GREATER, than the price the family across the street paid for theirs. Hold up. Initially it doesn't make any sense, because your family purchased their home from the family across the street. How could the family across the street's home which is considerably larger cost less, and why knowing that would they inflate the price of the smaller home for your family?
Now lets say that one day you work up enough courage to venture across the street to ask those same questions to your neighbors. When you get there, obviously those who now live there have no answers. They have spent their entire life in that home and their parents werent even alive when either family moved to the neighborhood.
So, you show them the facts, you know, public records, deeds of ownership, mortgages, everything you have to support your claim. There is so much factual evidence that they have no choice but to accept your findings as true.
You even show them financial records proving that the price your family eventually paid for the home prevented generations from attending college, or even starting their own businesses. Meaning that your family spent generations working for a family who took advantage of them from day 1.
Now lets say, all that evidence presented made the family across the street feel bad, but they refused to pay back the difference of the price of the two homes, because they didnt cause the injustice they were just prospering because of it.
Would you have a hard time believing what those people who turn their backs on justice say or do?That is the question I want you to answer either with a "yes" or a "no".
Before you answer, apply my story to the present. Would it seem UNBELIEVABLE that an African American leader would directly contradict America's(government) feelings and beliefs with his own? Considering that Rev. Wright has used anti-American sentiments, anti-Jewish/ pro Farrakhan language to promote dialogue, doesnt it seem odd that these are the things that AMERICA upholds. America & Israel's policies.
Moreover, it was this very dialogue that has propelled Barack Obama's views to what they have become. He grew up in a white family, surrounded by a white world. As an adult he chose to go in a different direction. He chose to hear the other side of the story. Now, he has come out of both experiences with a solid base of understanding of both sides of the racial divide. Who could be a better candidate to REALLY move this country towards CHANGE. Wether it be socially/racially, or whether it be with the foriegn policy issues that have clearly plagued us in the past 8 years.
Thank you
please rate! good or bad.
Update!!!! Here are some new material on the subject of Rev Wright. I'm sure you have heard that Hillary said, "she would have left his church." I wonder what Bill would have done?
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I would absolutely have trouble trusting that family (read: government).
That said, I think your argument was much stronger until you wrote the last paragraph. I'd go back and strike that whole paragraph. It's insulting to the reader, even if they are "mature enough" to respond. Let the argument stand on its own two feet (because it can) without insult or threat.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
No.
Honestly, in the context of the metaphor, I wouldn't expect that family to pay me (assuming I was the one in the house) back for the difference, because it was not their fault. So no, I wouldn't have trouble trusting a family who wouldn't pay back something that was not their fault.
But I do agree with ediblewoman, the last paragraph seems slightly contradictory. If you are just looking for a 2-3 letter answer, then it's not completely fostering "honest dialogue." I get what you mean, it's just phrased oddly.
If you found alot of money, then later found out from the victim that it was stolen, would you return it?
and if you didnt and the victim knew you had it , would you think he'd ever consider you a friend?
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
If I "found" a lot of money, and discovered who the victim was, I would give it back in a second.
It's a different matter though with the purchase of a house, and I wouldn't feel obligated to pay for something that wasn't my issue. I hope that doesn't sound too selfish haha...
I dont know if your really being serious, but it would be your issue......you and your family would be directly prospering from your ancestors stealing money/property.
and those who would be directly struggling due to the theft of your ancestors, live across the street. Even if you would not care to right a presumed wrong, wouldnt it be understood that the family living across the street might harbor feelings concerning the fact that THEIR living conditions were a result of your families wrong doing, a fact that cannot be disputed.
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
Sorry if I didn't make it clear, I was being serious though.
Like I said, if it wasn't my fault, it's not my obligation; in my opinion. My ancestors may have been bad people, but I'm not directly stealing from my neighbors (hypothetically), and I don't think those neighbors would ask for the money to be given back. Once again though, hypothetical...
your missing the point......there have been no reparations....nothing has been paid back....that is not the point of the blog..........Mose, answer these questions.......
Would you understand those people being weary of future decisions made by your family on their behalf? Would they want to be your friend?
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
Why should reparations need to be repaid?
"White" America freed the slaves, not ALL of "White" America was cruel to African-Americans. Likewise, not all African Americans suffered in pre-Civil War slavery, and post-Civil War discrimination, yet all African Americans can reap the benefits of affirmative action. Brilliantly fighting discrimination with discrimination...
What does Rev. Wright want to be paid back? What payment is he seeking when he makes OUTRAGEOUS claims, such as the government purposefully infecting African Americans with HIV? What payment is he seeking when he calls the first black female Sec. of State CondoSKEEZA Rice? What payment from White America is he seeking when he posts Anti-Israel editorials from a terrorist organization, Hamas?
Can you answer me those questions?
where have I asked for reparations? where are you getting your argument from?
Obviously you are too embarrased by your reaction to answer my questions honestly.
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
In your comment before this one, you say "there have been no reparations..."
That is where I got my reply from. I'm not "embarassed" by my opinion at all, that's why I'm stating it. So what are you talking about?
You discuss in your blog the feelings of Rev. Wright and how people don't understand his prods for dialogue. Well you didn't answer me, those quotes I have in my previous comment, how are saying things like CondoSKEEZA Rice promoting dialogue?
So please do not insult me by insinuating I'm not answering honestly.
there have been no reparations and no-one wants them.........in my story, when they asked for the difference in home prices, I was alluding to leaders in the past asking for reparations......and the question that I posed for you originally you never gave a sisinct answer.
I dont know why Rev. Wright called Condoleeza Rice, CondoSKEEZA Rice. I do know that very few African Americans think of her in a positive light. She as seen only as a face. African Americans feel that she did not abandon her "blackness", but never had it to begin with.
Also, in responce to your questions about Rev. Wrights anti-American/quasi-pro-Hamas literature, Rev. Wrights statements (about the government, HIV, Hamas)were not given as facts. They were given to present an opinion in contrast to what the American government's opinion was. He was doing this because of the past injustices levied against the black community. In the 30's, 40's, and 50's black preachers in black churches were forced to provide political dialogue due to the inclement times for their people. During these times they found that making statements to contrast government theories gave a voice of the opposite extreme.
For example, if the government says that Bin-Ladin is the enemy, then the common opposite extreme message would be to say, "Bin-Ladin isn't the enemy". Now, there are two contrasting views in the air to debate further. It is hard to have an honest political debate without two contrasting views. For example, if the government is presenting one view on Hamas, who will present the other. (answering your Hamas question)
This is what Rev. Wright meant to do when he spoke of the spread of HIV. No-one really knows how it spread so quickly . The government has yet to comment on the origins. So, to a black man who has been through times of deception, it is only his memory of the lies and hate against his people, that promts him to question the origins of HIV in regards to the US government. None of the congregation goes home and thinks, it is a fact that the US government spread HIV to kill off African Americans. However, the notion of institutionalized genocide is not foriegn to the minds of Native Americans, or African Americans.
The notion of a government creating laws to "hold back" or destroy a race is something few caucasians can relate to. So, Mose, if you still dont understand then I understand why you cant understand.
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
"......and the question that I posed for you originally you never gave a sisinct answer"
I did, your "yes, no" question that you asked to be answered in a yes, or a no, I answered.
Although I still don't agree with much of your agrument, it's your opinion against mine, and I would say we have to agree to disagree.
well removed.....it was not really a part of my arguement. It was simply to get either a yes or no response....which I have gotten from both replies.
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
Much better.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Who could be a better candidate to REALLY move this country towards CHANGE.
I'll assume the above is a question because it begins with "who" even though the punctuation is questionable.
I've read your early postings about Rev Wright's preaching and remain extremely unconvinced. I give Reverend Wright the same benefit of the doubt that Obama gave Don Imus: none! I frankly don't want a person who could attend a church for 20 years where that kind of hateful speech was taking place being the person in charge of making changes. I'm afraid that the changes might take us in a negative direction.
jackbenimble are you caucasian? I'm asking because chances are that your father lived during a time of extreme prejudice and hate towards african americans. If he didnt lead a coalition against the hate the I guess by your logic you would not want your father to have a position of power.
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
I'm half Cuban but my Mom is a fairly light skinned Cuban so my guess is that I am mainly caucasian with some indio blood. I might even have some African blood because that is common in Cuba and is also common in Spain because they were ruled by the Moors for 500 years.
My father is caucasian. But he never had the Grand Kleagle of the KKK as his spiritual advisor. If my father was a member of the KKK or if for 20 years he attended an organization where they preached racial hatred and hatred of the country and basically just spewed vial lies and ignorance I would have a problem with my father having a position of power.
As it is though, my father grew up in a racist era and PRIOR to the civil rights movement married a woman of a different ethnicity and was then a young adult during the civil rights movement and is now a senior citizen and in all the time I have known him, I have never heard a racist word come out of his mouth nor known him to tolerate hatred and ignorance in his pressence. So the situation with respect to him vs Obama are totally different. And in any case, my father is not running for the highest office in the land.
"If my father was a member of the KKK or if for 20 years he attended an organization where they preached racial hatred and hatred of the country and basically just spewed vial lies and ignorance I would have a problem with my father having a position of power."
If he was an American citizen before 1968, then he was part of an organization that promoted racial hatred through a lack of legistlation.
Also, Rev. Wright was the Pastor of U.C.C. for over 30 years, and there have been less than ten "soundbytes" found to support your claims. Letting your frustrations get the best of you less than ten times within a 3 decade career is pretty good considering why he was frustrated, and who he was frustrated with.
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law
I reject that notion. I lost relatives in the Civil War fighting for the North. There were and are no doubt plenty of haters OF ALL RACES but my Dad was not one of them.
How many sound bytes of how many seconds did it take for Obama to decide that Don Imus should be deprived of his career and his livelyhood? What's good for the goose is .....
Don Imus gets paid by his sponsors who pulled their ads after he said what he said, so CBS had to fire him. Plus what does Don Imus have against a group of college womens basketball players, who are black. I have already outlined the grievences a 60 year old plus person of African decent would have with the US government.
Rev. Wright gets paid by the Board of Directors from his church, if what he said was so offensive that they decided to fire him, so be it. But, they didnt. CBS didnt have to fire Don Imus but because of the lack of sponsors they were forced to.
"my first name must be, "He aint sh@t", cause everytime I come through, yall be like "He aint sh@t"!....I'll be dat" --Redman
"Anything that can go wrong, Will go wrong"----Murphy's Law