For the Patriot Act opposition

I don't understand exactly what all these people who oppose the Patriot Act are doing in their lives that causes them to worry about the Government being able to screen conversation over the air.

The same thing our founding fathers were doing when they decided to include the 4th amendment in the Constitution. We're just living our lives.

The whole "what've you got to hide?" argument is such a pathetic one, and it's gotten really stale. This is America, and part of what makes America great is the rights afforded its people. If you want to live in a country that can/will intrude on your privacy, feel free to move elsewhere.

Actually I think the Patriot Act is helpful... I mean if you are willing to trade your privacy for lives of the US Citizens who will die in future terrorist attacks... Remember the Patriot act is meant to STOP terrorist attacks within the USA. After 9/11 we found dozens of terrorist stationed in the US. The government doesn't care if your making x-rated phone calls to your neighbors husband, unless ofcourse those phone calls include the steps to making a bomb that will bring down the White house. And as for monitoring people who speak out against the government, there is an amendment to the act that calls for review over the possible surveillance targets to decided if the motive is there, and don't tell me Kennedy would allow surveillance on people like Cindy Sheehan, he is her biggest fan.

Points taken, well said...However terrorism didn't have much of a place in history until the last decade. Times change, protocol changes. Sad to say.

Here is to "sheer lunacy." haha

Sorry, I don't have much faith in conspiracy theories. Bush is out next term, this isn't Nazi Germany.

However terrorism didn't have much of a place in history until the last decade. Times change, protocol changes. Sad to say.

When you're young, everything seems to be happening for the first time.
But it's not.

Terrorism has been around for centuries, if not millenia. It's nothing new, and won't be eradicated. Ever. It's a tactic, a method, not some group of people. Reference the History section here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

The Patriot Act is a compilation of items, most of which are not problematic. There are a couple that are, because they overstep the 4th amendment boundaries- plain and simple. The one part that is most significant is the section that tore down 'the wall' between the FBI and CIA (as I recall). The President uses that one piece to justify the need to make the entire Act permanent.
I have suggested that Congress pass legislation specifically addressing 'the wall', separate from the Patriot Act, so we can have rational discussion about the rest of the provisions therein.

You mock the suggestions of the person from England, but there is truth in what he says. It may not be apparent now, but the releasing of this restriction on government intervention IS a fundamental shift that has great potential sooner or later to lead to heavy-handed government tactics. Nobody need mention names. It's just a fact of governments and history.

After 9/11 we found dozens of terrorist stationed in the US.
We've known about terrorist in the US prior to 9/11.

What the Bush administration has done is capitalized politically on the fear that we all felt on 9/11, and every time they need your support for another policy change, they wheel out "September eleventh". It was a tragic day for our country. It was not the end of the world, nor the beginning of some new era. It was one event in time.

The concern that folks like me have is that this government is pushing everyone's fear buttons so well that people aren't thinking clearly about the broader issues at stake. This government is arresting people secretly and jailing them without access to lawyers, a day in court, or even knowledge of the charges against them. This isn't some radical conspiracy theory. It's happening.

Now some folks dismiss this as necessary because these are bad people who deserve nothing. And THAT is the biggest problem I have with the whole GWOT-- and the Patriot Act is front and center in this.

What the Bush administration has done with its pithy, redundant rhetoric, is destroyed in the American conscience what may be the most basic building block of our nation's strength: a legal system that affords "Innocence until proven guilty". These people are called "terrorists" before they've even been arraigned, let alone tried or convicted. They're condemned for being arrested. And that's not what America is about. (but it is what the Patriot Act is about)

There is no country as special as the US. Some have some of our laws, others have others. But the US alone has stood for over two hundred years because of the strength of its Constitution and its laws. For people to give in to their fears and decide they can really do without the Constitution and the laws is for America to disappear in everything but name.

The biggest problem that arises in this debate is that folks on the far ends of the political spectrum define the discussion. "Fascists!" "Traitors!" But the truth lies at neither end. The patriot act is not part of some fascist takeover plot. Nor are we helpless without it. Quit arguing with the fringes (ie: the original post)!

Read and THINK!

This law is the same as The Nazi German Enabling Act, which afforded the freaks over there the legal avenue to round up MILLIONS to be incinerated.
Let me give this to you step by step:
A. The Patriot Act allows arrest without charges and indefinate internment (What the Germans did to go into neighborhoods during roundups).
B. One interred, access to lawyers is then denied (how the Germans kept their dirty little secret as such long enough for SIX MILLION BODIES to accumulate).
C. The Germans then installed their dupes into their Reichstag (High Court) so as to intercede in legal review of these policies: (John Roberts wrote the Court decision allowing Padilla to continue to be held, absent charges and lawyers, and Alberto Gonzalez wrote the Torture is Okay memo as Bush Counsel).

So any person on our soil can be seized, held absent charges, tortured at will, and even death of that person is salved over as "just a war thing" that we don't usually do. Sheeeeit folks.

This is the same twisted logic which heaved the ENTIRE WORLD into war last century, folks, and in case you had not noticed, the whole planet is bubbling up during Bush rule, and Hamas won a legal election in Palestine, a natural pendulum swing for the rest of the world who, like me, despises this egomaniacal messianistic despot.

And if you think it's okay to allow secret searches, take the locks off your door, you fools. You deserve NO SECURITY.

"terrorism had no place in history until a decade ago" =
"Muslim extremist terrorism against America"
gotcha. which really means Osama bin Laden.

Why did binLaden start his tirade against the US? because we had our military in Saudi Arabia.
What happened after we invaded Iraq? We appeased the terrorist by withdrawing our troops from Saudi Arabia.

Talk about bringing terrorists to justice: remember AQ Khan, the Pakistaini arms dealer? He was "brought to justice".
Condi Rice:
"A.Q. Khan is out of business and he is out of the business that he loved most. And if you don't think that his national humiliation is justice for what he did, I think it is. He's nationally humiliated."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/03/le.01.html
*Whew* glad we got that taken care of! Let's get more of em!

Osama binLaden: public enemy number one. The spark of this whole GWOT. Except Bush doesn't care where he is; doesn't think much about him any more.

These are the people 'protecting' us from terrorism by spying domestically and letting the real dangerous people roam free.
Why let the dangerous run free? Because as long as the bad people are out there, you will be afraid for your life and let the gov't do whatever it wants.
Fear is not the way to run a country.

want to join your club. Where do I sign up?
You mean the rational Americans club. No signing up necessary; simpy engage your brain.

Think.

think about it...people are angry at the US government for taking away their rights. It is common knowledge that there are at least some Al Queda sympathizers in the US. That's what the Patriot Act is meant for. the Patriot Act just increases anti-Amercanism , which leads to more terrorism.....not to mention the corrupt govt we have and we cna get because of the patriot act.

thinking about it, just the name of the act is laughable in the way it taps into people's sense of fear and duty.

'the patriot act'

so it's a patriotic act and to disagree with it is 'unpatriotic'. that's the implication. whereas surely wanting to preserve democratic freedoms and priviliges is a more truly american patriosm, at least if we are to believe what bush keeps telling us america stands for.

the tactics your government are using are tragically laughable. for instance, apparently there have been adverts screened during episodes of terrorist drama 24, asking what will happen if the people against the patriot act are wrong.

incidentally paula, why are you always up so early? can't help noticing you make posts at about 5 in the morning.

or is it none of my business? sorry, wouldn't want to interfere in your private affairs.

hi, thought i could be of use in this argument because, unlike george bush (who needs to resort to more conventional methods)i have a gift for telepathy, or reading people's minds.

i run a west end show in london, that's how i make my living, but when i'm not baffling tourists with my supernatural skills, i climb inside the minds of world leaders and other important figures.

the other day i got inside george bush ( if you're reading this Mr. Blair, try to contain your envy) and i'm happy to confirm that his intentions are entirely honourable.

Mr. Bush only intends to use the patriot act to prevent terrorism against the american people, for whom he has a deep and genuine love. he intends to take all action possible to preserve democratic freedom whilst protecting the american people.

Seeing the world from Mr. Bush's point of view, i could see that he has a deeply humanitarian soul, and is sad that some of his acts have been misinterpreted. for example, he is baffled that his attempts to install peace, freedom and democracy in the middle east have been misconstrued.

however, there is a strong, fundamental strength in Mr. Bush's character, and he is unwilling to waver in the face of criticism, as he knows he is doing what's right.

there are a couple of interesting morsels in Mr. Bush's personal life. for example, Monica Lewinsky keeps sending him dirty text messages. understandably, he's tempted, but he's worried that if he calls her his conversation will be tapped.

after i got bored of george bush i thought i'd read Paula P's mind. it reminded me of that time i bought a blank notebook...