this is my first blog so dont rip me apart please! Basically I am really struggling with my faith. I am a born again Christian and I chose to live this way because I felt like my life was reallly missing something. I really do belive that Jesus was an amazing example for humanity and that he loves us no matter what. I love knowing that there is "someone" i can talk to at anytime and no matter what. Right now I am really struggling because the vast majority of my friends and even my own family don't share my faith. I hate the idea of hell, like a burning furnace of people who never found Jesus to be their savious..yikes. I kind of deal with the idea of hell by sayibg that if people have no interest in having a relationship with God in this life then they wont have that opportunity in the next life, which for some people would seem pretty awful. What about people that never learn about Jesus?...or who die too young to even understand Jesus? Why would God who I believe is Love want that? If anyone has ideas about this please le me know.
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Well, just know that you are not alone by being a Christian here. A few tips, though.
1) Blog on progressive things (hint: the website's name).
Don't write about how bad that bagel tasted for breakfast, or how many times your friend snored during her nap. Write about things that need to be progressed, things that have been looked at as bad but really do need to have a change in people's perspective.
2) As much as Christians want to tell the world that Jesus is the only way to heaven, this isn't necessarily the place. I do blog about Jesus and how He changed me THROUGH A TOPIC. Don't just write about Jesus - write about Jesus and drugs, Jesus and alcohol, Jesus and abortion, Jesus and whatevr-you-may-want-to-write-about.
Now, what I think about hell.
I do believe in hell, though not quite as everybody thinks so.
God is just, and because He rules the universe, acts done against His love and mercy are to be paid for. The only way we can pay for those is through death and by going to hell. You and I know that we won't go to hell because we have accepted Jesus' forgiveness, but those who reject this free gift do have to go to hell. Hell is the only way those acts can be paid for, even though God does want everyone to be saved and to find His unfair, jealous love.
Anyone who says they have 'the answer' to your questions is lying.
Here's what I present:
What about people that never learn about Jesus?...or who die too young to even understand Jesus?
No one knows. Whatever happens to such people is decided by God, and there is no clear evidence as to what happens to those who are unable to learn about Christ. Whatever happens will be Just and Right, but it is not something we can determine. A case can be made for BOTH sides, we just don't have the sufficient informtation. And, that is ok. It is not the purpose or a requirement of Christian Faith to know all of the answers.
Why would God who I believe is Love want that? If anyone has ideas about this please le me know.
God has given us Free Will that we may choose to follow and worship Him or not. Without Free Will, we would be nothing more than robots. There would be no love. God does not WANT us to fall away, but gives us that choice. Each choice in life has a consequence. Despite the push by too many to try and have a 'consequence free' life, it is little more than a mentally induced utopia that ignores reality. We each have the responsibility to not only know the consequences of our actions, but (whether we know the consequence or not) also be held accountable for them.
I don't believe in hell for reasons that you listed. What does happen to people who never had the chance to learn about Jesus? Or infants or toddlers that never had the capacity to understand God? Or good people who were people of another religion or no religion at all? It just doesn't feel right for all of them to be burning in hell.
Now, of course if I say I don't believe in hell, people think "Then where do all the sinners go?" I don't believe in sin either. I do believe that there is a right and wrong, but more in the utilitarian ethical sense. There's just no clear cut line to divide right from wrong. The Bible says that killing is a sin, but what about killing in defense of your loved ones? Theft is also considered a sin, but what about stealing food to feed your family?
I believe that actions can be bad, but a person's soul is good because it came from God, and that after death all souls return to God (aka heaven).
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Please don't take this personally, but it seems kind of odd to not believe in hell because you don't know what happens to babies.
That's kind of like not believing in electricity because you don't understand how you can store it in batteries.
Also, the bible doesn't say that killing is a sin, it says that murder is a sin. There is a difference between the two.
Jesus was NOT a pacifist.
My questions were all pretty much rhetorical, because presumably, every person who has not given their heart to Jesus Christ goes to hell, which would be everyone referred to in my questions including babies that die. So I wasn't really asking.
Killing vs. murder: no clear cut line on that distinction either. So presumably then, all the soldiers in Iraq killing insurgents aren't committing sins? (Real question this time) Aside from the quibbling about killing vs. murder, I think my stealing scenario still illustrates my point.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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But you assume that a baby goes to hell because they didn't have the mental ability to know Christ. We don't know that. The bible is not clear as to what happens. The only reference to it in the Bible is David saying that one day he will see his stillborn child again (presumably in the afterlife).
Again, not knowing if a baby goes there isn't really a reason to not believe in hell.
As for sin, sin isn't a quantitiy, it is a quality of being impure. Things that are 'grey areas' are that because we have a sinful perspective in life and can't seperate betweeen selfishness and selflessness.
Does that parent that steal food for their kids REALLY not have money for food, or do they just use their money unwisely so that they don't provide for their kids?
And no, I don't consider what our soldiers are doing in war to be sin. They are there to free the oppressed people and are fighting against the oppressors (the terrorists, in plainer language) who have controlled that area for decades.
The difference between killing and murder is not vague. Those who want to lump things like self-defense into 'murder' cloud the issue by trying to equate killing and murder.
Then, for uncertainty's sake, let's take out the baby example. It doesn't seem just for people who have never had the opportunity to know Christ to go to hell for all eternity, if there is nothing they could have done about it. And it doesn't seem just for good people who are of a different religion or of no religion to go to hell. It's seems fairly logical to me that heaven should be an equal opportunity destination, and the way the Bible lays it out, it isn't.
Things that are 'grey areas' are that because we have a sinful perspective in life and can't seperate betweeen selfishness and selflessness.
Does this statement mean that what is considered sin is based on intent of the action or that what is sin is clear cut, but we are unable to see it clearly because of biase? It seems like you're saying throughout your comment that sin is based on intent of an action. The different between killing and murder would be the intent ot the action, correct? That would be why killing insurgents isn't murder. To me, intent of an action is a pretty gray area.
Does that parent that steal food for their kids REALLY not have money for food, or do they just use their money unwisely so that they don't provide for their kids?
This seems to imply that it would be okay to steal if the person was stealing food because their family was really starving. But if its a sin, shouldn't it never be allowed, no matter what?
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Heaven or Hell are not up to us to decide who goes and who doesn't.
Given what sin is, and what Heaven and Hell are, it would be highly illogical to let the sinful enter without being redeemed. As no one is sinless, we each need a redeemer. Therein is the logic of how one gets 'into' heaven.
That's the logic of it.
As for whether one wants to believe in it or not, that's up to them, each person's faith is between them and God. Only they are held accountable for it.
However, if your belief against heaven or hell is based on not knowing what happens to group A or group B or on you not liking the answers you find, I would recommend a deeper bit of research to not just discover what you do believe, but flush out what you base that on and be able to answer for it.
I know what I believe and I know what I base it on. I have this wacky idea that if God exists, God is logical and good. The God of the Bible is cruel and illogical. And the Bible's vision of God is so small. Whatever God is has to apply to the whole universe, including any other societies on any other planets. What would Christians say if we found out there was life on other planets?
If it turns out I'm wrong, at least my life will have been happy, I won't have been laden with guilt or fear of God's wrath. But if I'm right and every person goes to heaven, at least no one is worse off.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Your comment here is based on the assumption that Logic is checked against your test for it.
You do not encompass or corner the market on logic.
By YOUR logic, God is illogical and cruel as shown in the bible. However, you are setting the standard by which you determine illogical and cruel.
You're not in a position to do that. Your perspective of God, logic and cruelty is rather skewed by your sinful nature. That's what sin does.
And yes, if you're right, everyone gets into heaven.
What purpose, then, did Christ serve?
If we don't need Christ to be redeemed and enter heaven, what purpose was His sacrifice?
If you do not believe in Christ, by what grounds do you judge the Bible?
I don't need you to believe me, but at least I can say that nothing bad will happen to you if you don't believe me. I don't believe in sin, I believe that the Bible was written by men, and I believe that Jesus Christ was just another human being. So I can't fit my arguments into your premises, because I believe they're false. And if we're going to continue this, you might want to start a new comment, we're getting skinny over here.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Don't really need another comment, since there isn't anything to say.
You don't believe in the Bible, but see fit to judge it based on your own thoughts of what it says.
Any arguments you present I have heard many times before, so a continuation of dialogue won't affect much.
Well, I believe in hell, but not in the same sense Christians do. I believe that almost everyone (the exception being newborns) goes to hell initially, but hell isn't some fiery furnace. It's a place where souls go to be 'purified'... where everyone pays for their wrongdoings against other men, possibly by reliving them on the other side. It's a place to deal with your demons, in a sense, before you move on to a better place. What is that better place? I don't know... maybe a communion of souls as described by... Plato, I think. Maybe something just like Earth, only perfect...
~C
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There's no such thing as Hell. When I was a Christian i had the same problems because many of my friends were irreligious. As I got older I realized how ridiculous it is that a good person would burn forever in a lake of fire just because they didn't identify as Christians for their short time on Earth. I doubt that will help since you're born again. But I was also born again before I had "what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity."
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
Perhaps yours is not the scale by which goodness is judged.
But it's far superior to the scale I used to use.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
Which was?
The one I heard in church twice a week that taught that people go to Hell for being gay, having an abortion, believing in evolution, adultery, fornication, dressing too provocatively, dressing like the opposite sex, getting tattoos or piercings, not believing in God, not believing that Jesus was the son of God, not believing that Jesus was part God, not believing that Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth...even if they spent their entire lives helping their fellow man and doing good.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
I would suggest that you didn't listen as well as you probably should have, if you believe that HALF of what you just has a place in christian theology.
All or none of it has a place in Christian theology depending on who you ask. Either way, that's what I used to believe and now I don't.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo