I would appreciate it if college students would quit coming into my neighborhood to buy their weed. In fact, I would appreciate it if college students would quit buying weed at all, until it is legal. Even if it is delivered to your dorm room for you, somewhere down the line, it affects a neighborhood like mine. And I'm sick of it. I'm sick of VW's and SUV's pulling up to the neighbor's house and honking until someone delivers a baggy to the car. I'm sick of skinny white girls in designer jeans and their khaki-clad boyfriends looking around wide-eyed like they're on some kind of exotic safari to the 'hood for the minute they spend here to make their purchase. Yes, I live in a "bad" neighborhood. I will thank you very much to stay out of it, because you are making it worse.
I used to feel that a little weed was no big deal. I smoked a couple of times in college, and I had some pretty memorable nights (one of them spent atop the arch of the Robert Street Bridge in St. Paul, which was beautiful, but really, really stupid, as it is at least 100 feet above the Mississippi River). And really, as a drug, it isn't a big deal. It is less dangerous than alcohol, in and of itself (unless it inspires you to climb tall bridges).
The difference is, alcohol can be purchased legally at the liquor store down the street. Weed must be secretly grown, processed, packed, smuggled, and sold--usually from a person's home. There are criminals involved in every step of this process. People with guns and loose morals. Have you seen the Showtime series "Weeds?" The people selling are seldom confident, middle-class women with a college education and the brains to out maneuver the cartel. That show is not a realistic representation of a marijuana dealer. I'll give you realistic.
The neighbors across the street from me live in Section 8 housing. It is run by a slum lord who does not care what condition the house is in or what the people who live there do. The family (yes, it is a family) consists of a crack-addicted grandmother, her daughter, her grandson, his girlfriend, and their two small children. When they first moved in, I thought, "Great! A cute young family! Yay!" And they were really good neighbors for a few months. Then the granddaughter couldn't get her job back after maternity leave, the money ran out, and they started dealing.
I don't know how they got into it, but soon, there was a constant stream of vehicles pulling up out front, honking, making the exchange, and leaving. Constant cars, parked for under two minutes. Business was so good last summer that the grandson just stayed out on the porch. It wasn't worth it to go inside, because there would be another customer any minute. One of his friends waited at the bus stop out on Lake Street with a walkie, to alert him to the cops. Walkie beeps, grandson goes in. Beeps again, comes back out.
All of this was annoying, but not really a huge problem. It became a problem when the men with guns started showing up. Nearly all drug activity is gang-related. Gangs have ranks. We could see the progression of the grandson up the ranks. He started wearing a "uniform." All his buddies dressed alike. The men with guns were higher up, though. They looked like Heavy D and didn't wear colors. The handguns in their waistbands were their prominent feature. They showed up regularly to collect money and give pep talks to the distribution force. They talked about how much "property" they have in the neighborhood, and how to use it to the best sales advantage. They talked about expansion into other neighborhoods, and how to move into areas with more money, like college campuses. (Just like in Weeds). Soon after, the VW's started coming round.
They dealt and partied all summer with their toddlers running around the yard, only loosely supervised. The kids saw guns, drugs, prostitution (a whole 'nother blog), alcohol abuse, and domestic violence daily.
They did all this on the porch, while consuming copious amounts of malt liquor. I think the idea was to intimidate the neighbors who may be considering calling the authorities. They made no effort to hide who they were or that they were gang members. We called the cops anyway. A lot. We called so often that the 911 operators addressed us by our first names the moment our number showed up on their screen.
Eventually, the higher ups in the gang pulled the plug on them. Our constant 911 calls finally got results. The frequent police presence chased some buyers away. The cops arrested one of the leaders at the house, and the gang members left. The house became a liability to them. The grandson stopped waving colors. The car traffic is gone. Every now and then, a white boy with perfect hair and an expensive car will pull up and lay on the horn. No one comes out. He'll honk for two minutes or so and leave. Some of the less resourceful buyers come back a few times before they give up, but it does no good. Their source has dried up.
Summer is coming, though. I hope they won't start up again with the nicer weather. It would really help if their customers would stay on campus or in the suburbs and find a different recreational outlet. If no one is buying, the "business" closes, and my neighborhood remains the quiet enclave of low-income families it wants to be. Our parks stay free of condoms and drug debris. Our children are hit with fewer stray bullets. Our walls are not marked up by gangs. If you want to come enjoy the many ethnic markets and festivals we have here, please do! Those are legal and perfectly safe. If you are coming to my neighborhood to engage in a criminal activity, even if it's just a little weed, you have no right to be here, and no right to pass judgment on the street I call home.
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... awesome blog.
Thank you.
I am so tired of people defending illegal drugs. If it's illegal; don't do it. Don't encourage others to do it. You can talk maturely about why you want it to be legalized, petition, whatever. But do not blatantly disobey the law or encourage others to do so, especially young people on websites like ProgressiveU. I see blogs on a regular basis with this attitude of, "Rebel because the government is just trying to control us" and they frankly insult the intelligence of every one who reads them.
The truth is that drugs destroy your brain. The entire point of drugs is that they alter your consciousness; otherwise people wouldn't use them. That's why so many people (more than 2/3) who are in jail enter addicted to one illegal drug or another. Because drugs contributed to their delinquent lifestyle. It's the cold, hard, honest truth.
Anybody who says that illegal drugs don't destroy lives is a fool.
Thank you. And I agree (obviously). My blog turned into a bit of a rant, but I went into it with the intention of exposing the butterfly effect of "just a little weed." I don't think I got that across, but maybe I at least hinted at it?
The purchase of "just a little weed" will directly affect those toddlers. It directly affects my quality of life. It directly affects the grandmother's access to crack. It indirectly affects everyone in my neighborhood, even if they don't live near a drug house, because our entire neighborhood gets a bad reputation because of those drug sales, making the neighborhood unappealing to responsible home owners. This affects the achievement gap, because it perpetuates the concentration of poverty in our neighborhood, and therefore, the schools. This, in turn affects the reputation that low-SES students, who happen to be largely students of color, can't have academic success, which affects the students' self-concept and expectations, which leads them to continue failing, which leads them to seek unlawful means of supporting themselves.
It's not ALL caused by one sale of a little weed, but it sure is encouraged by it.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Well said.
I hope your blog will help more to understand how these sales perpetuate the cycle.
Suburban drug life is so much different. It's usually individuals who get their weed from other individuals who grow it in their house. Dealing in my neighborhood is more of an entrepreneurial enterprise than a corporation.
We usually don't buy from the inner cities because the weed sucks.
--Mike
Check out the Topic of the Week
http://www.progressiveu.org/weeklytopic
This all fits in with my "buy locally" ethic.
Where do you get your prostitutes, though? A different issue, yes, but related (at least in my neighborhood). It will be the subject of another blog in the future--and THAT'S a good story!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
It's suburbia. We don't need prostitutes because of all the sluts.
--Mike
Check out the Topic of the Week
http://www.progressiveu.org/weeklytopic
You crack me up!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
If only I were kidding...
--Mike
Check out the Topic of the Week
http://www.progressiveu.org/weeklytopic
I completly understand how, yes, if there wern't people buying the drugs then they wouldn't be coming into your neighborhood but at the same time they did not put the drug dealer in your neighborhood. The drug dealer made the first move and of course people are going to follow. I would be more upset at the dealers and the gangs for turning your town into that kind of setting even if it was progressed by the buyers. Both the buyers and the sellers are at fault, not just the buyers. its a cycle.
That's why we call the cops on the dealers. We also give the license plate numbers of the buyers, but they are on the move and harder to catch. But according to the laws of supply and demand, if the demand goes away, the interest in producing and selling the product dries up. Eventually.
The whole situation is frustrating, but what is most frustrating is when people talk about how unsafe my neighborhood is, but still buy weed from neighborhoods like mine.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
The cops just move the drugs, they don't stop the dealing.
--Mike
Check out the Topic of the Week
http://www.progressiveu.org/weeklytopic
Your blogs are always so good! I don't know how you have time to keep up with this, your job, and your studies. You must be quite the time-manager.
I never even thought about the affects of illegal drug use that way (at least not so in depth). I don't think that most college students buying the weed are aware of the consequences of their actions, especially on campus when people tend to get it from a campus dealer and never have any part of the original transaction.
You bring a whole new perspective to illegal drugs. I wonder if legalizing marijuana would eliminate this aspect of the problem, but whether it would also create new problems as well. I'm no expert about the issue - not into that stuff myself - but I'd be interested to hear the argument for legalization framed by the poverty and gang problems associated with inner city dealing.
A^2
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/redwhitebluegreen
just move. weed is not going anywhere.
That doesn't help the situation.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
What an enlightening comment.
the house. In my city if you call a dealy that's called "CRIME STOPPERS" you get a reward AND they arrest them. You can look in your local phonebook for something similar to that. And, hey, if you get a reward, you're getting money. You can give your name and ask to be kept anonymous so they can give you your reward. You never know, some times the rewards are like 100 dollars and I don't know about you, but I could always use and extra hundred bucks.
There is a large section of the blog dedicated to the amount of time we spend calling 911. It's tough to catch a drug dealer, though. The cop has to see the goods or has to be undercover and involved in the transaction. We're going at it as a "problem property," but that is an incredibly long process, which I will someday document in a blog about Section 8 housing.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Summer is coming, though. I hope they won't start up again with the nicer weather. It would really help if their customers would stay on campus or in the suburbs and find a different recreational outlet. If no one is buying, the "business" closes, and my neighborhood remains the quiet enclave of low-income families it wants to be. Our parks stay free of condoms and drug debris. Our children are hit with fewer stray bullets. Our walls are not marked up by gangs. If you want to come enjoy the many ethnic markets and festivals we have here, please do! Those are legal and perfectly safe. If you are coming to my neighborhood to engage in a criminal activity, even if it's just a little weed, you have no right to be here, and no right to pass judgment on the street I call home.
Why are you hating on them? I mean you gotta' do what you gotta do to survive. Sure you can say, 'go get a real job'. But why should they? I mean the bulk of todays rappers--some kids idols--all sold drugs and slanged on the block. It's just the way it is. And if you don't like living in a gang neighborhood, then why don't you get a better job and move out? If you don't like the drugs, why don't you leave? Better yet, why not slang to get out of the hood. It seems like that's what your neighbors were trying to do. After not being able to get a job after maternity leave.
+mspin
Wow. This comment was really ignorant -- that's not what her blog was about at all. She wasn't "hating on them" for selling drugs, and she recognized that they were just trying to get by. But she was pointing out that it is the people who buy the drugs who are perpetuating the problem by allowing drug dealing to be a way to get by. Just because "it's the way it is" doesn't mean that it's right or that someone doesn't have the right to envision her neighborhood to be a safer, healthier community.
Also, by encouraging people to just leave when their neighborhood gets rough actually perpetuates the problem. Poverty and crime are cyclical - in the ghetto, people isolate themselves more as crime increases, therefore there is less community, poverty intensifies, crime rates increase, and all of the people who have the ability to support the community in a positive way continue to move away, leaving only the most impoverished and most desperate people.
She has all the right to try and think positively and act progressively to improve her community, instead of running away from the problems.
Again I ask - why do people find the need to defend the use and/or sale of illegal drugs?
because they believe people should be allowed to live freely.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
Pubic hair is natural
Which is fine - if they are not encouraging others to do something that a) will end them in jail or b) will destroy their lives.
I have no problem with people petitioning, or maturely arguing for legalization. What I have a problem with is those who encourage others to destroy their lives.
encouraging people to "destroy their lives" is part of that freedom. Encouraging people is not forcing them.
“I hope the departure is joyful and I hope never to return.” - Frida Kahlo
Pubic hair is natural
"Which is fine - if they are not encouraging others to do something that a) will end them in jail"
I see nothing wrong with encouraging somebody to think for themselves and into making a decision for themselves based on the weighing up of the pros and cons of a particular drug, illegal or not, as the case may be.
The reason why some people, presumably a majority, can't understand that, is usually because they know very little about drug use and often have little to no first hand experience with the subject. They are usually blissfully unaware of their ignorance though, they believe that the fact that something is illegal or listed on a piece of anti-drug propaganda, that it is bad and that is all they believe they need to know.
They don't read into the subject from both sides of the equation like a skeptic, they just read from the side that already supports their existing and often foundationally lacking belief regarding a certain drug or more often their blanket attitude to all drugs. Such information is usually written by people who, much like their audience, are at a deficit when it comes to researching beyond rumour, urban myth, scandalous anomoly and statistical distortion. Not to mention that such anti-drug propaganda is usually rife with questionable research results which have a nasty habit of being proven false under scientific scrutiny after it's been peddled as fact.
These disproven chunks of misinformation will no doubt continue to be regurgitated into the future, disingenuously, although often just ignorantly, as fact, thus feeding the viscious cycle of misinformation (disinformation in many cases). Examples of this can be well illustrated to highlight this kind of thing if we look at the fact that claims were made for decades that Cannabis had no medicinal value by the anti-drug movement; Cannabis was said to induce phycopathic madness instantly which made people prone to murder and rape; 'Gateway' drug theory has been totally relegated by the scientific community, yet it is still touted by anti-druggers.
I would encourage people to make educated decisions for themselves regarding recreational drug use, rather than just conforming blindly to peer pressure; be that from ill-educated drug abusers or ill-educated anti-druggers. most drug users don't end up in jail for it, only the unlucky and stupid.
"b) will destroy their lives."
Such absolutism. First the absolute assumption that choosing to use recreational drugs will automatically land you in jail, now this whole 'destroyed life' guarantee. Most drug users don't actually end up with their lives destroyed by drug use, those people are in a minority, a very media friendly minority; if it bleeds it leads. You aren't likely to read any shocking headlines about the vast numbers of recreational drug users living perfectly content lives working as accountants, programmers, lawyers, or whatever; it doesn't play enough toward masaging the sensibilities of the ignorant masses.
Media just feeds the lowest common denominator what it wants so it'll sit it's collective ass down and soak up the advestising arranged around whatever self gratifying ignorance they are being fed. Truth is not a tasty dish to those raised on a diet of junk information by a media that is interested in ratings over education.
Billions of people embide alchohol, statistically very few go on to be alchoholics or subsequently go on to destroy their lives through alchohol use. Alchohol is considerably more addictive and potentially destructive than many illicit drugs as established scientifically in the eminent British medical jornal, The Lancet, last year.
Blind conformity is not to be applauded, which is what is exhibited by people who form opinions regarding the nature of a drug based upon whether or not it is illegal; legality in most cases is not based on science and fact, it is based on appeasing the whim of an ignorant voting majority. Any scientifically based drug law reform runs the risk of alienating a vast number of voters who've been fed lies for so long, they are convinced in their ignorance as a result of cynical politicians and media channels humouring their moral outrage for decades.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I don't believe the drugs themselves destroy lives... especially not necessarily marijuana. Alcohol and tobacco and significantly worse statistically speaking in deaths as well as causing college drop-outs.
I only argue that you should not encourage others to immerse themselves in a negative culture; and you really can't say that those who enjoy "recreational drugs" are not going to become involved with the people who grow, transport, distribute, ect. the drugs. It is well known that these are dangerous things, per the nature of illegality they have to be, and it is in my opinion wrong to encourage young people to become involved in something that can get them killed or put in jail (destroy their lives).
I do, however, have no problem with someone intelligently arguing for the legality of drugs through mature routes such as blogging intelligently about the subject (and backing it up with facts), petitioning, talking about it with friends, ect. I just feel that it's not necessary to say, "Hey these drugs are great - you don't need to wait until they are legal" because it promotes something that's dangerous and foolish at this current juncture in American history.
I completely agree with you. The majority of people who argue against the use of marijuana have little "real" knowledge about the drug. They dont take the time to look up the facts. They are just blind sheep following the "anti-drug" parade. A prime example of this is the movie "Reefer Madness". It came out in the thirties and the basic storyline is that a few kids smoke marijuana and then become psychotic killers. The movie wasn't made to be a comedy. In fact, it was used to show high-school kids and their parents the "dangerous" effects of the drug. However, if you have ever seen this movie, you can uderstand just how ridiculous that is. The real comical part is that in the '70's the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws dug the movie up, and used to promote their message.
Again I ask - why do people defend the rights of illegal aliens?
Try finding a job with limited education experience in America you can't. You're not catching what I'm throwing. I'm saying they are just utilizing a means to survive. Just like anyone else. I agree drugs are "bad", I've blogged about it numerous times/ But hey when people are subjected to seeing idols that now are making millions of dollars, well, that's America for ya'. To say that my is 'ignorant' , is to be someone who lives well off. If you have ever lived in the ghetto you would know what I'm talking about. People need to eat. Infact, you're ignorant for calling me that.
So, I guess the only right question to ask is:
Where did you grow up?
PS.:
Which is fine - if they are not encouraging others to do something that a) will end them in jail or b) will destroy their lives.
I have no problem with people petitioning, or maturely arguing for legalization. What I have a problem with is those who encourage others to destroy their lives.
When did I say I am encouraging it??? Please tell me. I'm just making a rational acceptation. It's just a means of survival.
+mspin
Where you grew up does not limit your ability to get a job.
It is greed that causes people to deal drugs... not "survival."
I'm from New York... I know what drugs are all about. I've lived Upstate where they grow it, and I know all about being offered $5,000 to transport it to the city. I've also lived in Albany, where there is an abundance of this stuff. I also lived in NYC, and in Saint Louis. Yes, we know all about drugs and their effect on people here in NY.
My parents are first generation college students. My father grew up in Rutherford, NJ surrounded by drug dealers. My mother grew up on a dairy farm in upstate surrounded by weed growers. If they could work hard, and get out, then anyone can. And, *eh-hem*, my mother went to Cornell right out of high school, where you get almost no scholarships because it's Ivy League, so she actually did work her way through college. I grew up in a house they fixed up after buying it from a bunch of distributors, because that's all they could afford. Give me a fucking break.
Don't spout the bullshit that it isn't possible, because it damn well is, and anybody who says they can't do it is either lazy or hasn't been educated on the opportunities available to them. I'm here to educate you: the opportunities are endless, and the only thing limiting you from getting out is yourself.
Just because I can spell, have a good grasp of the English language, and I do not wear my hat backwards does not mean I have no knowledge of what "life is really like." You have no idea who I am; so don't make assumptions about me and I will not make them about you.
Don't spout the bullshit that it isn't possible, because it damn well is, and anybody who says they can't do it is either lazy or hasn't been educated on the opportunities available to them. I'm here to educate you: the opportunities are endless, and the only thing limiting you from getting out is yourself.
Just because I can spell, have a good grasp of the English language, and I do not wear my hat backwards does not mean I have no knowledge of what "life is really like." You have no idea who I am; so don't make assumptions about me and I will not make them about you.
There you go again. Missing my point. I'm not saying they can't do it. They're just in a position not to. Look at you spouting out swears left and right. You're so big and tough. It really enhances the debate
. If you actually try to understand what I'm saying instead of attacking me then maybe we would get somewhere....
Let me stress this again, I'm not saying THEY CAN'T DO IT. What I'm saying is it's not in their best interest to. I mean seriously why should they do all this extra work when they can just slang trees and make a living at it. That's their motivation. With your ivyleague parents, I guess you're blinded by it. I'm here to educate you: WHY WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO CHOOSE A HARD ROAD TO MAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY (maybe even less), WHEN THEY ARE PERFECTLY WELL OFF TO BEGIN WITH?
Why fix something that isn't broken.
Just because I can spell, have a good grasp of the English language, and I do not wear my hat backwards does not mean I have no knowledge of what "life is really like." You have no idea who I am; so don't make assumptions about me and I will not make them about you.
Nice personal attack. I didn't know I couldn't spell. You obviously are a perpetrator of your own slandering. Just because I don't have a pink unicorn as my avatar to hide my face behind a computer screen does not mean that you know what you're talking about. You say I have no idea who you are, and you wont make assumptions about you. Yet you just made a plethora of assumptions about me. Thanks for being hypocritical, the country needs more of them.
Perhaps you should read my blog entry about the depreciation of morals.
Have a great day riding your pink unicorn in your magic wonderland where there are no drugs
,
+mspin
Clearly you have no problems spelling.
I see your point with the easy road. I think it's sad, but I see where you are getting at.
Which is why I think marijuana should be legalized, but not some other drugs. However, until that time, we should not be creating new buyers through encouraging young people, and perpetuating the cycle of more people who choose the "easy" illegal way to make money that is harmful, dangerous, and unhealthy.
Wow. This a a sad, yet touching story.
How do you know this about your neighbors besides all of the honking?
That the lady lost her job etc?
most of it's observed behavior, like the guns sticking out of the waistband of pants, and hearing the motivational sales speeches through the open windows. The job part was from talking to them.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Whoa.
I must say, that is NOTHING like the drug dealing around here.
If, say, I wanted some weed, I could do a number of things. I could go ask my apartment-mates if they had any. I could go downstairs and ask the several dealers who live in the lower rooms. I could take a short walk to oh... about ten other dealers. There are probably over 100 dealers within a one-mile radius of me. If not far, far more.
Drug dealers here are just normal kids. They buy a large amount of weed and then they sell it and that's really... all there is to it. Most of thjem don't do or sell harder drugs. They don't care much about competition - if one of them is out and someone is looking for weed, he/she (though actually I only know one female dealer) will recommend a few other people. The dealers I know are all sweet, friendly, peaceful, and discreet people.
I'm sorry your neighborhood is suffering so badly because of your idiot dealers, but not all are like that.
It does not matter how sweet, well-intentioned, neighborly or discreet a drug dealer is. The reality with illegal substances is that there is no regulation as to their manufacture, supply or distribution. Even the kindest of growers did not purchase the seeds for their plant at the local garden store. My point is that no matter how harmless marijuana or the majority of people who deal it seem, somewhere up the line, a gun may have been drawn in front of a child in order to get them their supply. If this had been a post about crack, meth or heroin, there would be no discussion about "normal kids" versus "idiot dealers". I'm not passing judgment on the drug itself, but I am saying that the nature of circulating an illegal substance does not become less dangerous or harmful with the type of drug being circulated. The scenario described in the post above is the dirty reality of this trade.
Who ARE you? i like your comments, but I see no blogs. Ahem.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
I completley agree. Illegal drug dealing is just that, illegal and wrong no matter what the drug is.
This comment is a champion example of the encyclopaedic ignorance regarding drugs and drug-related crime endemic is such a vast proportion of the voting population. Which is in itself the root cause of the the bulk of the drug related violent crime in the US as it makes it impossible for intelligent and progressive politicians to make any ground in implimenting reason and science based drug law reform, without losing votes and possibly their career.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
"Even the kindest of growers did not purchase the seeds for their plant at the local garden store."
Well, actually they pretty much do in most cases, well maybe not local ones, but perfectly legitimate legal vendors of Cannabis seed operating in countries like Holland and Canada, whose revenue is taxed, as is the revenue of the agents who vend their seeds in countries like the US. That is if we are talking about 'the kindest growers'. Ingenuous growers who care about their weed strive to buy the best strains and seed stock they can; you do not get this from criminals and gang members, you get it from seed banks. Gangsters don't tend to make good botanists.
Ridiculous drug law in the US which makes seeds illegal, something unheard of in the rest of the West, actually creates a market for mass amounts of cheap and often low grade seed at an artificially inflated price to mass producers, who are often violent criminals who happen to grow weed, as opposed to supporting the fallacious belief that all illict weed production is automatically connected to violent drug related criminal organizations.
In fact legalisation of private cultivation is the ultimate source for a solution to the problem of violent drug cartels profitting from illicit Cannabis sales.
"a gun may have been drawn in front of a child in order to get them their supply."
You can say the same thing when you buy a can of Coke. Workers in a Coca Cola factory in South America were shot by the factory's administrators. This principal can be applied across the board; you never know what any large company has done to get their supply, whether it's reeking economic ruin on communities, to endorsing sweatshop labour, to poisoning the environment.
Yet we don't see enough material educating consumers about the shameful activities of the suppliers of some of our favourite brands. But we are inundated with this kind of emotional blackmail regarding illicit drugs, when in fact, it is actually the fault of those who support the war on drugs and who disseminate said emotional blackmail by way of propaganda, that "a gun may have been drawn in front of a child in order to get them their supply". A gun shouldn't have to be drawn in front of a child to facilitate the growth and distribution of Marijuana, we need scientifically determined drug laws, not laws based in puritanical unreason and fallacious "moral" concerns of an ignorant mass.
"The scenario described in the post above is the dirty reality of this trade."
No it's not, it's the dirty reality of a portion of the marijuana trade, a portion which could be remedied through legalization if people just embraced reason over blind dogma.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
^word.
Marijuana and shrooms are simply VERY different from drugs like crack and heroin. The manufacturing is different, the dealing is different, etc. And just because a neighborhood has drug dealers doesn't mean it can't also be an awesome place to live.
Your ability to spew rhetoric is astounding. Unfortunately, pointing fingers at large companies does not change the reality of illegal drug trade in America. Like I said, I am not passing judgment on the drug itself. If you put a petition in front of me asking to legalize and regulate marijuana in the US I would sign it 100 times. However, there are some of us who strive to be ethical in every aspect of our consumerism which, in this case, means fighting against the inevitable immoralities that stem from the trade of illegal substances.
"You never know what any large company has done to get their supply, whether it's reeking economic ruin on communities, to endorsing sweatshop labour, to poisoning the environment". In what way does this excuse drug dealers from creating these problems as well? Just because advocating soft substances feels like rebellion doesn't mean you're not making the same excuses CEOs of large corporations do when people question their ethics as well.
In your words: "A gun shouldn't have to be drawn in front of a child to facilitate the growth and distribution of [m]arijuana". You are absolutely right. But guess what? That is part of the reality of illegal drug trade in the United States. And until there are regulations in place, it will continue to be unethical to support the growth and distribution of these substances.
"That is part of the reality of illegal drug trade in the United States."
That is a part of the reality of a part of the illegal drug trade in the United States, as opposed to an inescapable part of the trade as a whole. Plenty of Marijuana is grown small scale by non-violent, otherwise law abiding citizens, who purchase their lighting and grow equipment from legitimate sources, and the same goes for their seed stock.
I do however understand what you are saying. But Cannabis users are not to blame, The perverted legal status of Cannabis in the US and those who maintain it are. Accusing users of supporting violent criminal enterprise through their purchase of Cannabis is emotional blackmail leveled at the user by the very people who are actually responsible for creating a legal environment which necessitates the purchase of weed as an illicit drug from an illicit source.
The powers that be, in their moral outrage, don't want to accept any reponsibility for the fact that their war on drugs is a costly failure and one that actually channels cash into the coffers of a violent criminal elite, aswell as into the hands of terrorist organisations. Like I heard a stand-up say one time: if you're concerned about my dope money going to violent criminals and terrorists, then just legalize it and my cash will go to healthcare and education.
Users are not to blame, legislators and an ignorant and regressive voting majority are, and I'm pissed off that they have the audacity to attempt to pass the buck.
"And until there are regulations in place, it will continue to be unethical to support the growth and distribution of these substances."
Not necessarily. There are other more ethical avenues open to people, chiefly, grow-your-own. Something which is becoming ever more popular. The other option is to buy from people you know who grow, or people who know people and so on. However, draconian laws regarding 'production', make such private growing even more risky than purchasing weed from violent criminals, further highlighting the idiocy of current Cannabis legislation. The morally outraged would rather that users revenue go to terrorists and drug cartels than into the pocket of a hobby grower with no violent tendancies or criminal enterprise stretching beyond illicit horticulture.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I have to disagree... I don't think you realize it's not only about the violence.
Buyers who are supporting otherwise law-abiding citizens also contribute to other social flaws in the American system. For example, there are many families here in Upstate NY who are supported mainly through marijuana production and distribution. Are the figureheads violent? Not generally.
However, what happens when they get caught by the government, and end up in jail? I can tell you, it's not fun. So the buyers who encourage the producers to pursue an illegal trade, rather than a legitimate drug, ultimately contribute to the tearing apart of families. I have seen it.
I'm not saying that one should not lobby for the legalization of marijuana; all the statistics point to the fact that this is the right thing to do. What I am saying is that the statistics also say, and the reality of the situation is, that while the government is arresting people and the culture of drugs remains violent and/or uncertain, buyers are contributing to negative occurrences. Believing otherwise is foolish.
"So the buyers who encourage the producers to pursue an illegal trade, rather than a legitimate drug, ultimately contribute to the tearing apart of families. I have seen it."
The tearing apart of families by who exactly? Not one buyer or grower believes that it is acceptable to tear a family apart by throwing members in to prison because of weed. Those who support the War on Drugs do. They are merciless on the issue; zero tolerance. So please refrain from attempting to assign blame to people who are persecuted by unreasonable and unjustified laws.
Nobody should be going to jail for weed, unless they beat somebody to death with a pound of it or something. To expect people with the capacity for critical thought, a shred of dignity and even the vaguest interest in freedom to sit idley by, obeying laws which are maintained to sate the whim of the ignorant and authoritarian, is asking a bit much. We are not talking about naughty children in elementary school here, we are talking about adults, many of whom are perfectly intelligent and well educated.
If a law can not demonstrate itself to be reasonable and fails to demonstrate it's efficacy in contributing to the greater good, while actively demonstrating it's regressive effect on society through the subject of this blog entry or the families being torn apart, which you mentioned, then it is perfectly reasonable to ignore such a law. Yes, there are bullying consequences to such actions, but some people just won't allow themselves to be bullied into blind confomity, especially when such conformity defies reason. It is the ignorant and unreasonably authoritarian who turn law abiding citizens into criminals, but there is in fact no crime being committed beyond the invented and unjustified one invented and inflicted upon others by the morally retarded.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
... you are not reading what I'm writing.
I agree with you that these laws are stupid; but my point is while they exist here in the US they should be obeyed. I personally have seen the results of those who disobey the laws as a buyer or a seller. That's my point. Your spouting endless rhetoric does not change fact or the reality of the situation. In a perfect world, you would get your way. But the world is not perfect.
"I personally have seen the results of those who disobey the laws as a buyer or a seller."
And you think I haven't? Beyond personal experience, history is littered with people who chose to stand-up against tyranny and who were martyred for it. Maybe when the prisons are finally bursting at the seams with innocent people, the government will wake up and sort out some drug law reform. It's a shame that so many eggs will have to be broken to make that omlette, but obeying such unjust laws will only convince those responsible for maintaining them that they work.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I do not condone disobeying laws when it creates violence or hurtful atmospheres.
Try again, only this time with more appropriate methods.
"I do not condone disobeying laws when it creates violence or hurtful atmospheres."
That may be so, but that really doesn't make any ends in the reality of the situation. I'm not suggesting that people go out and get themselves arrested deliberately, I'm suggesting that they should ignore the law. They are anyway, they doesn't need prompting.
The sad fact is that the only way that law reform will take place will be centred on the moment those responsible for prohibition wake up and realise they don't have the cash or resources to lock up everybody. Then maybe they'll get the message that the law is actually demented and that is not working for the good of society, but quite the opposite.
Unfortunately that will most likely be what it will take for the ignorant to even consider legalisation. It is not the fault of marijuana smokers that their habit causes so much social harm at the moment, such harm is the result of prohibition.
"Try again, only this time with more appropriate methods."
It's not a method asuch, it's simply what is going on at the moment. I am merely stating that I would encourage the continued disobeying of the law regarding cannabis, and a suggestion that legal obedience will advance the cause in some way is madness. Tackling it politically is well and good, but for it to be successful, they need to be able to provide evidence to demonstrate the failures of prohibition. Unfortunately, those who need to be shown evidence, need for it to be on a national disaster scale before they will admit that they screwed up. The will need to be presented as bulging prisons and an even more collosal bill for the War on Drugs, complimented by a list of figures for lost revenue through illicit drug dealing that is so economically intolerable, that they might consider some reform.
Let's not forget however, prohibitionists have been spreading a lot of lies about Cannabis for a very long time. They've been peddling those lies as fact too. There is a lot of outlandish propaganda, the effects of which will have to be reversed. It's a messy affair. Obeying the law is out of the question though, the law in question does not warrant any respect, it's beneath us in it's unreason.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
Plenty of them grow their own pot and get their seeds from friends. The nice thing about pot is that it's legal in many places and it's a PLANT. It's not that hard to get and it's not manufactured by people, it's manufactured by nature.
Also, the post was about drug dealers in a neighborhood, not about whether or not circulating an illegal substance is harmful. My point was, not all neighborhoods with drug dealers are like the one ediblewoman lives in, some are quite nice.
It does not matter how sweet, well-intentioned, neighborly or discreet a drug dealer is. The reality with illegal substances is that there is no regulation as to their manufacture, supply or distribution. Even the kindest of growers did not purchase the seeds for their plant at the local garden store. My point is that no matter how harmless marijuana or the majority of people who deal it seem, somewhere up the line, a gun may have been drawn in front of a child in order to get them their supply. If this had been a post about crack, meth or heroin, there would be no discussion about "normal kids" versus "idiot dealers". I'm not passing judgment on the drug itself, but I am saying that the nature of circulating an illegal substance does not become less dangerous or harmful with the type of drug being circulated. The scenario described in the post above is the dirty reality of this trade.
It's not a matter of, "how sweet, well-intentioned, neighborly or discreet a drug dealer it." It's a matter of survival. I ask you the same question I did earlier, "Where did you grow up?" If you ever lived in a ghetto you would know what it's like. I'm sick of people getting on their pedestal about how drugs are bad. I agree they're bad but hey, don't blame the dealer, blame the buyer. If it wasn't for the buyer, there would be no drug dealer. You don't go blaming cigarette companies for the smokers? You blame the people that smoke. Then you always bring up the children in the line of fire. That is a totally different topic. It's not the dealers fault, it's the parents. If they weren't drug addicts then maybe they would be safe from the ills of the world. Seriously... Maybe addicts shouldn't have children in the first place.
+mspin
I took flack for that too. And I did grow up in the ghetto. With drug dealers around. This is not a new phenomenon to me. I know many many people from the 'hood who have made a life for themselves, both inside and outside the ghetto, without selling illegal substances. Criminality is not the way out of poverty.
And it IS illegal. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is. So there's no excuse for buying or selling it.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
... If they can't find jobs then so be it. Let them deal. As long as rappers are peoples idols, drugs will still be an imminent part of society. What you fail to see is the fact that people see these idols making tons of money and what's the content of their music? Drugs. The problem is not the people on the street. It's America, and voting won't fix it. (See the electoral college)
+mspin
That is a subject for another blog, though. I like to focus my argument a little at a time. It is a multi-faceted problem, to be sure.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Okay.
So don't go condemning drug dealing then. You're glossing over the important points. That make up the problem. You have to see the full picture and its full effects.
+mspin
I can understand the motivation for an action and still condemn its illegality. I mean, I understand that most pedophiles were sexually abused as children and that their illegal acts are a compulsion, but that still doesn't make perpetrating okay. The circumstances don't excuse the crime in this case, either.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Pedophilia is a totally different blog entry. I'm not saying the actions of the dealers are okay but in this world of capitalism and free market it creates the motivation to make money. You're right drug dealing is wrong morally and for the population. But I'm not condemning the drug dealers because everyone has to eat, right? You can call them lazy but I don't see why they would switch occupations when they're doing fine already.
Why fix something that's not broken?
+mspin
Actually, most child molesters are NOT pedophiles. Only about 2-10% of them are. And most were NOT sexually abused, though physical/emotional abuse is common.
It was really just an analogy.
There may be other studies out there, but a 2005 study reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that 60% of pedophiles self-reported sexual abuse as children. And I know (well, knew) a pedophile. It was true in his case, as well. And he reported that it was a compulsion. It still doesn't excuse his actions.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
The thing is, pedophile does not mean child abuser. It means an adult who's sexually/romantically attracted to children. The AMA journal was probably looking at "convicted pedophiles" aka convicted child molesters... and personally I would seriously doubt a child molester's self-report, he or she was probably just trying to garner sympathy.
It's true that self-reports are always a bit skewed, but the AMA designates child molesters as pedophiliac-type and non-pedophiliac-type.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
The problem we are discussing is much bigger than living in the ghetto, the trouble with immigrants, weed, or even gangs. I think the only way we are going to see solutions at this point is if it comes from the top down, as well as the bottom up. What I mean is, the system needs to change. In your blog, you said the daughter couldn't get her job back after her maternity leave - isn't that illegal under the Family Rights Act?? Women (and fathers, I believe) are entitled to a certain amount of leave from their jobs after having a baby without losing their job. The system failed them, and like what's-his-face-with-the-sideways-hat was saying, they needed to survive. They just made a quick-fix, bad choice on how to survive. Weed is illegal for a reason, but then, alcohol was illegal for a reason at one point, also. It's like saying, "Go bridge jumping, but not cliff jumping." ??? I realize how hard it is to find a job, especially if you rely on public transportation. It's a rough world out there. Living in the city doesn't mean there are job opportunities. It just means you live in the city. Anyway, my point is, the system is flawed, so in addition to the points made already about not failing your community by just leaving when it gets hard (a bottom-up solution), the local, state, and federal governments need to really start creating solutions to these problems that ultimately affect everyone, even them (top-down).
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/kariskoett
My partner and I always ponder what will happen if they get thrown out of the house eventually. Yes, our street will be quieter and safer (and I won't feel bad about that), but they'll go somewhere, and they'll still have a crack-addicted grandmother and two toddlers, and they're likely going to keep selling. Moving the problem doesn't solve the problem, but I don't know what else to do.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
You're exactly right. It's the system. The system is capitalism and our government having a hidden agenda. Drug dealing is just another way to control the population.
+mspin