It's important and wonderful that you've all shared these stories. It echoes the age-old of questions of what it means to be human: the answer seems significantly different in that sense. In the same vein of thining about differing perspectives, I heard this great lecture by Michael Bess at Vanderbilt University (I'll post a link at the bottom). His premise is that our access to bio-technology will be so rapidly advanced that we'll be able to change our bodies physical and chemcal makeup to the extent to reverse conditions such as Autism, Arthritis, Cancer, etc.
What will this do to change how we define ourselves as human-beings? Throughout history and the mythical Greek and Roman stories of Gods and mortals, we're exposed to this idea that humans are imperfect and the Gods perfect. What will having access to these bio-technologies that can make us "perfect" mean?
These scientific breakthrough's can't be judged on the basis of good or bad. And they shouldn't be stopped. That would be counter to evolution and progress, right? How do we interpret this coming social change? I, for instance, have this condition called Ankylosing Spondilitis (similar to Rheumatoid Arthritis) -- it's complete junk. I know another kid with MS. I know for a fact that both of us would have our conditions reversed, who wants to live differently, especially if we feel as if we're losing out on some vital parts of life; living well.
But what about the lessons that imperfections bring; are we all just going to become demi-gods? Are we heading for a "utopia," and will that group be comprimised of these "super-individuals." or will it miserable for the rest of us who choose not to make major overhauls to our bodies?
Are we in a non-ending cycle of moments of disparity in our attempt to reach equilibrium?
Here's a link for Michael Bess's lecture at Vanderbilt: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/news/lectures/2007/10/8/video-michael-bess-del...
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Hey there--seems like your first blog set off with a blast. :) Anyway...
I personally think that nobody should be given an easy way to perfection, or even an easy shot to anything near it. Perfection is for those who work for it. Virtuous in body, perhaps, but not in mind. Some people just need to suffer, fall ill, and learn from them (whether they deserve them or not, there is strength to be found). At the same time, I'd get tired of seeing the same people around for more than a hundred years--and I'd get tired of being around for more than a hundred years, I'm sure.
At the same time, I believe in reincarnation, so this issue doesn't really bother me so much. I see life as a trial, a way to learn to do things--or to do things for others.
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Ironically, people think I'm being sarcastic or witty when I say my eyes glazed over.
http://www.progressiveu.com/blog/scyze
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
WHAT???!!! You say NO ONE should be given a shot of perfection. What if giving someone a shot at perfection simply means giving them a shot at life. While you are not autistic, I assume, you obviously feel free to make such comments because you are not on the other side of the fence. If you were autistic, you would want to do anything just to be able to function like a normal human being. So how dare you so no one deserves perfection? We aren't talking about plastic surgery here! We are talking about saving LIVES from cancer, giving people and families life from autism, lessening the burden of society from paying taxes for health care, etc. Don't say no one deserves the right, because you are speaking for autistic people that don't have a voice but desperately want it so they can fight against such comments.
WHAT??!!! "Some people just need to suffer, fall ill, and learn from them"
REALLY??? Well, I wonder if you would be singing the same tune if you were autistic or dying. Fine, you say you believe in reincarnation so you don't really care about other people who DESERVE TO DIE in your opinion. You convienantly believe in reincarnation, disregarding other people's beliefsthat you are only given one life. What about atheists who believe there is nothing after life? You are stealing their shot at life. I am appalled at your comments.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I was not referring to autism. Autism exists for reasons beyond either of our understanding, and I reserve my opinions on treating it (since they don't exist).
I was talking about things like superhuman intellect or infinite life. People do not deserve that kind of thing without work.
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Ironically, people think I'm being sarcastic or witty when I say my eyes glazed over.
http://www.progressiveu.com/blog/scyze
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Okay, but lets face the fact that biotechnology would produce superhuman intellect. NO t infinite human life because that is impossible, and I don't understand how biotech could do that. It can wipe out disease in humans, is what he said. NOt give infinite life. So lets say we have biotech that gives superhuman power AND cures autism. What would you rather do? Sacrifice autistic children for the sake of "good". What is truly good? Stopping superhuman strength from "taking over the world" or giving someone their life back? We can't pick and choose. ITs a package.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
*sighs* I'm breaking my vow. Bad me.
If scientists find out what causes us to age (and they are starting to), and are able to reverse that, infinite human life is possible, despite what your religious beliefs say.
~C
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http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
What vow are you breaking?
About infinite human life, which I still say is impossible despite YOUR beliefs, if scientists find out what causes us to age and IF we can live forever won't we end up dying anyways because no matter how much you reverse life, if you sick you WILL die. Living forever has never occurred, however the longer humanity has existed the more diseases it has acquired so infinite life would not be possible because another major disease would wipe it out anyway.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Infinite human life is quite plausible--just think about what we already do. Or nanobots, or something. Besides, you seem to think that curing autism is done by giving people superhuman strength, or even intelligence. Both of which I'm pretty sure aren't even really related. Granted, I don't know much about what autism affects directly. I'm aware that you have an autistic brother--half of my mother's side is autistic with Fragile-X, so it's hereditary. I might be a carrier.
In an absolute purist form, I would not let my own child have a "cure" to autism if it warped them in the other direction (to the point of being almost reverse-autistic, though I doubt this would ever be the case, again), or had any extremely adverse side-effects. Otherwise, there's always the question of, "are we messing around with Fate?" But, eh, people defy "fate" all the time. Why the hell not?
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Ironically, people think I'm being sarcastic or witty when I say my eyes glazed over.
http://www.progressiveu.com/blog/scyze
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
"you seem to think that curing autism is done by giving people superhuman strength, or even intelligence."
I NEVER said they were directly related. I said that this is the package biotech is offering us.
"had any extremely adverse side-effects" Duh, no one would do anything to cure a normal child if serious side effects existed.
"are we messing around with Fate?" NO because by the time everyone gets super human strength and infinite human life WE WON"T BE HERE. Biotech is not THAT advanced. Right now, its offering the best permanent solutin oWHICH WE CAN USE NOW to cure disease and essentially wipe it out before anyone has the chance to live forever.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I agree with Scyze. If everyone was perfect, life would just suck. And yes, it's horrible that people have to suffer, but people wouldn't appreciate all the good if there was no suffering. And people that make stupid choices should have to suffer for making those choices (think obesity and diabetes, by and large).
Also similar to Scyze, I believe in a form of reincarnation. Some souls just need to experience certain circumstances in order to become complete. Maybe we just have empathetic people now because in a past life they suffered?
This does not mean, though, that we should not try to end suffering. A woman with cancer that gets treatment and survives still had to suffer to be able to survive. But making it so she has a better quality of life when she comes out of it is a good thing. She'll appreciate it more.
~C
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http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Oh my God.
"And yes, it's horrible that people have to suffer, but people wouldn't appreciate all the good if there was no suffering. "
Wow. Um... I realize more and more what kind of people dominate this website. People who don't value anyone's life but their own. Do you realize how selfish you are to say "lets stop superhuman power even if it means not giving cures to cancer and autism because I want to have the benefit of appreciating the good in life out of others who suffer". It seems that you would sacrifice anyone just to see your life through rose colored glasses wouldn't you? Well, I guess I can't blame you. Thats how the government works as well. THey make a decision based on which outcome will benefit us more, and use that to make life better. The little people end up being oppressed and losing their voice. Shows how cruel humanity truly is. Will do anything to save its own hide, will do anything to appease its selfish desires.
"And people that make stupid choices should have to suffer for making those choices (think obesity and diabetes, by and large)."
NO, you didn't...did you? Did you just dis obese people saying its their fault? Do you want to end up on the Tyra Banks show or something? Do you realize how ignorant you are when it comes to such topic? People who are obese are not ALL suffering because its THEIR fault. It seem syou are making these comments to make yourself feel better. If you are doubting, research what high fructose corn syrup does to you and how you have no control over what your body does when it comes to obesity...no matter how much you diet.
"I believe in a form of reincarnation. Some souls just need to experience certain circumstances in order to become complete. Maybe we just have empathetic people now because in a past life they suffered?"
Maybe if we didn't have people like you (no offense) everyone would be empathetic. You know why? because people would realize that life is given only once, so lets make the most of it. Also, they wouldn't justify society's serious problems saying the suffering people deserve their current punishment cuz of their actions from another life. We would realize that this is undeserved punishment on INNOCENT people and that alone would encourage a lot more empathy than you feel for them
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
I don't think you understand.
Trial and error is a method for learning and personal development. Add that to the belief in reincarnation, and death becomes a much less serious topic as you think. It's not so much of being selfish as it is letting others learn through their own hardships. Courage, personal power, whatever it is--we're not in any place to say (speaking from a theistic viewpoint). Also, just think about it--since when has giving anybody an easy shot to power, fame, or success a good thing? Also, stay away from this "curing autism MUST come with superhuman powers". I don't know where you got that.
Just think Paris Hilton. Repeat it. Let it become your mantra. Paaariiiis Hiiiillltooooon.
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Ironically, people think I'm being sarcastic or witty when I say my eyes glazed over.
http://www.progressiveu.com/blog/scyze
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
Your comment doesn't make sense. Whats this about Paris hilton? What are you talking about? You don't make sense.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
This is going to be my second and last response to you in this thread. If you still don't get it, you'll just have to go on with your naive view that I'm a horrible, horrible person. Which you probably will, but I'm going to try my best, anyway. Scyze, don't reply to this, please.
People who don't value anyone's life but their own.
I value plenty of people's lives. You apparently didn't read beyond 'I agree with Scyze'. My sister is autistic. All four of my grandparents have diabetes. My two grandfather's have heart disease. Both of my grandmothers have had breast cancer. My boyfriend's sister DIED because she had a hole in her heart. My boyfriend's cousin DIED probably because he contracted meningitis. My boyfriend's mother is in a terminal stage of breast cancer and will probably die really soon. I want to get rid of these things, so that MY CHILDREN don't have as screwed up family history as my boyfriend and I do. So don't jump to the conclusion that I have no value for human life. I would not be going into medicine if I didn't. Thank you very much.
Do you realize how selfish you are to say "lets stop superhuman power even if it means not giving cures to cancer and autism because I want to have the benefit of appreciating the good in life out of others who suffer".
Did you not read the paragraph where I said that I didn't think we should not stop trying to end suffering? Try rereading my statements.
Did you just dis obese people saying its their fault?
My mother is bordering on obesity right now. I know how hard she is working to get back down to a healthy weight. I know not everyone that is obese is at fault for their obesity. But people like my dad that smoke so that they don't gain weight are stupid and deserve the consequences for their bad decisions. People that don't want to control their obesity should face the consequences that comes with those choices. There are obese people for whom it is entirely their fault that they are obese.
People who are obese are not ALL suffering because its THEIR fault.
HENCE THE "BY AND LARGE" on the end of my quote (which you even quoted, so don't claim that you didn't see it).
If you are doubting, research what high fructose corn syrup does to you and how you have no control over what your body does when it comes to obesity...no matter how much you diet.
Read my blogs. I probably know more about diets than you do. People can make good decisions about their diet. It's not that difficult to read labels to see what's in them, or to control your portions.
Maybe if we didn't have people like you (no offense) everyone would be empathetic. You know why? because people would realize that life is given only once, so lets make the most of it.
I disagree. And I think you did mean offense, but that's beside the point. You're a Christian. You believe in an afterlife. There are plenty of Christians that knowingly do harm to themselves and others because they think that just because they have accepted Jesus that they are going to heaven. Makes the whole point of life null and void, doesn't it? I have a blog on this topic too... It's called "The Jews have the Right Idea". Check it out, if you're interested.
My belief in a type of reincarnation is not that much different from your belief in the afterlife. I never said that people can live however they want because they'll just get a second chance. I said that some souls need to experience certain things in order to become complete. I wasn't even specific about what those things were? But it's a comforting thought for me that my boyfriend's sister died so young because she completed her mission this time around, or that she couldn't complete it in her situation now, and has to live through another set of circumstances in order to do it.
Also, they wouldn't justify society's serious problems saying the suffering people deserve their current punishment cuz of their actions from another life.
You assume that you have the full grasp of my ideas of reincarnation. I don't think people are punished in their second or further life because of actions in a previous life. I think they are given a chance to redeem their actions, because their souls remember what they did. Maybe they just need a different view on things. It's not a punishment... it's a way to change their perceptions. Just like you going to Africa and SEEING first hand what is happening over there is a way to change your perception. But not everyone has the means of doing something like that, so they just have to be born into a new situation.
Call me heartless all you want. I don't care what you think.
As far as the advancement of technology goes, we are doing it exponentially right now. There's no reason to not believe that in 50 years, well within my lifetime, that scientists will have found a way to keep people alive forever by stopping the aging process. And since you don't know much about biology, obviously, the aging process is what causes us to fall susceptible to diseases. Why do you think older people get diseases that younger people don't? Their organs are dying, and their immune system is weakening... results from aging. If scientists can reverse aging, there's no reason we should die.
I am not saying that we should stop all advancement of technology. I am saying we should be careful, because too much of a good thing is a bad thing (just like too much ice cream is a bad thing).
Don't expect me to respond. I've said my peace. If you want to duke it out some more, you can PM me.
~C
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Let's get a few things straight before you post more comments, though I love comments on my page, who doesn't. But, let's do this:
Please respond to this, if you're going to respond: Biotechnology is a means to pursue better paths in the future, to cure diseases and maladies that we can certainly label as "imperfect," right? And we're also saying that many lessons have been learned through these "imperfections."
As an example: A woman went on Oprah to talk about how terminal cancer has made her live a better life and taught her to be patient, loving, etc. However, I think we can all agree, at least those who are stricken with these illnesses that despite these lessons, we'd much rather have these cures. Because it's each individual personal choice to be cured or not is up to them; therefore it falls under constitutional freedoms, "to pursue a life with liberty."
I'm then going to say that: Not that biotechnology should not be available, but that: how do we curtail the potential abuses of this technology? What laws do we put into effect? Let me say again that I think banning this research would be against progress that would be necessary. And I am asking, in light of the necessities of biotechnology: How does it effect the very definitions of being a human-being, if we have access to such technology?
If you're going to answer this question please be rational and non-judgemental. Work up an argument sentence by sentence, through logical conclusions...
http://www.progressiveu.org/090204-dont-miss-this-chance
"I think banning this research would be against progress that would be necessary."
I completely and totally agree.
"Because it's each individual personal choice to be cured or not is up to them; therefore it falls under constitutional freedoms"
Amen.
"If you're going to answer this question please be rational and non-judgemental. Work up an argument sentence by sentence, through logical conclusions..."
I am guessing you were referring to me? Okay, okay sorry. I'll make room for more "rational"people. See you at your next blog.
DISCLAIMER: I am not being rude. I'm stating my opinion. No personal attacks are meant. Please give some leniency on how you take my words. imagine me saying them with a smile. ^__^
Dearie, it's not aimed at anyone specific. I really want to read strong arguments for or against and I think at some point both of you started attacking each otherinstead of each other's arguments -- there's a significant difference between the two. I'd like to read more of your posts as well as everyone else's! I'm excited to see such friction and mental work going on. Keep posting.
It all depends on what level you're looking at it from. From the point of the whole cosmos (assuming reincarnation is a valid concept), human life--in fact, all of earth--is worth very little. Practically nothing, in fact, seeing how the universe is quintessentially infinite. However, at an atheistic view or Christian view (there are two views: determinative Christianity or free-will Christianity. Determinative Christianity assumes that God determines everything that happens, and you shouldn't tamper with them--under this viewpoint, it would be a direct opposition to God to go against what he deemed fit for your child. I don't think many actually believe this anymore.), human life takes on a much larger aspect. For a person who believes in reincarnation, I believe that you life forever in many different forms, and each life is a vehicle for learning a lesson, so--no biggie, really.
Still, narrowing it down to particulars:
Of course, we all have freedom to do what we want. But is it morally correct to defy our humanity, and grant ourselves strength which we didn't work for? It undermines the entire work ethic (or even effort ethic, period), and brings into thought all kinds of examples of people with too much power gone wrong. Can you imagine how irresponsible someone with great strength would be? Of course, great strength is attainable by every human being--but not at superhuman levels--and requires no intelligence. Granted, we have plenty of jocks stuffing geeks into lockers (cliche example, but it works). Also, too much fame and money: Paris Hilton. C'mon.
I've heard a tale about a magical fruit in a land called Mu that only grew in the king's palace that increased your intelligence by an incredible amount for a temporary amount of time. It was deemed illegal to consume by anyone not under specific instruction to do so. With good reason, too--if we were to gain "superhuman" powers, it would defy our humanity and the entire concept of progress. We would learn, but the repercussions for our mistakes will be titanically worse.
As for the cure to cancer--why not? People will just have to learn such lessons other ways. AIDS is a sick-nasty disease, but it certainly teaches people to be responsible and careful (I know you people are going to hate me for saying this, but it's true). At least we have a way to keep it at bay, now.
p.s.: I gave you a 5 for the trouble and because I like this concept. :D
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