Ok.....so once we stop contraceptives...we stop abortion. Because most people only get abortions...if their contraceptives don't work....right? You know what annoys me.......how our world has sunk to such a level that 11 year olds are having sex....so their parents put them on contraceptives....I mean, the kids who are doing this, don't even know wht they are doing!! I think alot of people don't understand that contracpetives are wrong too. The point of sex is life...so why bother having sex if you aren't open to life....it doesn't make sense....Contraception is anti life....Helllooo?
I mean...sex with contraception doesn't even make sense because it is the body saying 'I don't give all of myself to you" or "I don't love you unconditionally-you have to change part of yourself before we engage in sexual love". So....even if you are having sex outside of marriage "because you love each other," the body is not speaking a a truthful love, but a lie. No human deserves to be lied to especially in such an inimate moment of (what is supposed to be) maritial love.
And isn't it ironic (not...) that once contraception became available, within ten years, the divorce rate went up from 25% to 50%? Why is this the case? Because those couples who have a child in the first couple of years of marriage and maybe another baby in the next couple of years, are much less likely to get a divorce than couples who don't have children or have children later in their marriage. Another thing is that contraceptives make adultery so much easier....Think about it, it is easy to think about having an affair...but then having a child out of wedlock is totally different....because alot of women use contraceptives now, it is like they become "available" and it is harder for men to say no. Another reason is that now, women are, and can be more financially independent, so if there are no children, it is so much easier for them to just say to the husband, "take a hike mike" than it would be if there was a child involved.
Another bad thing contraceptives does, is it eliminates the need to even think about sex and what you are doing, thus degrading women to mere sex objects used for satisfaction and pleasure, because sex is no longer reverent because nothing can come from it.
Alot of people are also ignorant of NFP, or natural family planning, which is very different from contraceptives, and accepted in teh church. As opposed to contraceptives blocking conception via barrier or chemical methods, NFP doesn't block or suppress conception because it is not a contraceptive. Couples merely adjust their behaivor. If they descern that it is not an appropriate time to concieve a child, then they simply abstain from sexual relations during the brief fertile phase of the womans cycle. Contraceptions is anti life, while NFP is pro life. Other benefits to NFP are that there areno side effects from chemicals, such as irritability, weight gain, and an increased risk of cancer...Plus, NFP is easy to learn, and there is no cost in practicing NFP. Another REALLY BIG PLUS to NFP is taht it decreases your chances in getting a divorce to about 1 in 8....as opposed to 74% of couples getting divorced a year.....
So what do you think? Contraceptives....or NFP? Divorce...or Marriage? Saddness or Joy? Death or life?
First, can you stop using so many elipses? Thanks.
I actually don't agree with you. I don't think sex is designed for making a baby, and that's it. If it were, then infertile couples shouldn't have sex. I don't think there's anything wrong with using contraceptives to prevent pregnancy, especially if the couple is not prepared, either financially or mentally, for a child. Personally, I'd rather have a child after my career is stable, so that I don't have to worry about losing my job because I have a baby.
You're probably right in that adultery has increased since the incidence of birth control, but you really seem to underestimate men... thinking that they are incapable of controlling their desires, or simply wanting to have a roll in the sack with another woman if they are already in a committed relationship. I see sex as a trust action. I would only have sex with a man who I trust with my life, and only when I'm ready. Not to mention a man that I love so much that I want to be with him completely. I realize many people don't have the same view of sex that I do, but that's their loss.
Furthermore, with your issue of divorce... if two people work well together, they're going to stay together, whether they have a child or not. If they don't, then they'll break apart. People who stay together only because of children inflict a lot of psychological damaga on their children. Plus, I believe divorce was looked very unfavorably, even illegal, in the US when birth control was introduced. I mean, women were just getting the right to vote around this time. No-fault divorce didn't happen fully until 1985, a long, long time after the first contraception was introduced. Condoms were heavily promoted during WWII, and hormone contraceptives were avaliable around 1960.
~C
Visit my blog.
I can't say I agree with you either. My wife and I waited until marriage to have sex, and right now we're in no place to raise a child. It would be foolish of us NOT to use contraceptives and risk bringing a child into the world we couldn't provide for, essentially disrupting our entire lives and making things bad for everyone. Contraceptives have been around for longer than anyone can remember- long before the pill women used lemon wedges (sperm don't do well in acidic environments). Also, if we ban contraception altogether, abortions will GO UP. People won't just stop having sex because there's no contrceptives, and since they can't protect themselves, there will be a high demand for abortions and an influx of unplanned children. People have the right to protect themselves, and sex is more than just about making babies- it's a bonding mechanism and something wonderful, so I think relegating it to only child production is an archaic and wrong belief. And the Bible mandates married couples to have sex often- read the Song of Songs for one. I forget the verse (sorry) but later in the New Testament I believe it is Paul that says a man and woman that are married should have sex frequently (only abstaining for brief periods of prayer) as to strengthen the relationship and not tempt sin into their lives.
In any case, I think taking away contraceptives would make the world worse for EVERYONE, especially me and my wife. If you choose not to use them, that's your choice, but I don't want anyone telling me I can't sleep with my wife.
"The trouble with having an open mind is people insist on coming along and putting things in it"-Terry Pratchett
Okay, I applaud you for being so passionate about something, but I do not agree with you at all. Life is not that simple, "OH let's take away birth control and the world will be a happier place." As for this world, it is set on a fast pace. Everyone is so busy in life that I don't think NFP is an option for some. I'm doing good to remember to take my one "pill" a day. I don't think I want to take the time to keep my calander updated to make sure I don't have sex on a certain day. Also, where's the passion in life? Just think, you and your husband or wife have a great dinner, go to a movie, and on the ride home start to get a little "fresh", but oh wait, today the woman is at her fertile peak so, sorry no sex for you!! I know some do it, but as we all know, we are living in a world of many different types of people. Also, I know plenty of women who told there husbands to take a hike with 3 kids standing by. Divorce is not caused JUST because a person cheats on another person. There are other reasons. This subject is way to cloudy to look at it in only a black and white manner.
Peace n Bike Grease~Sara
Yes, but (to martins10) contraceptives is a big reason for divorce, (I am not saying it is the ONLY one though, like you said). But concerning remember NFP (or however you would want to word it) I would think it would almost be easier to do NFP just because you know your body and when it does things...I mean...pretty much two weeks after your period you are fertile (my mom knows alot about it, considering she teaches NFP).
But evolution geek is right, sex isn't just to procreate, that is one purpose, the other one is unitive, and although I don't know any of his circumstances, he didn't really say anything about NFP, and what he thinks of it wether he has tried it etc.
And finally to respond to mvenus929, like I said, sex isn't just for procreation (although that USED to be the church's stance on sex). Like I said, it is for unitive purposes too. But that person also didn't say anything about NFP also. And I am not trying to rag on ALL men, just there ARE men that it is hard to be faithful etc. and birth control makes it easier to be unfaithful. But I do think that divorce rates have gone up since contraception became available...maybe google it and see what you find if you want to. Thanks for comments though!
Just to clarify; I didn't say anything directly about NFP, but I did imply that I don't think it works. It looks just like a different name for the rythm method, which is one of the first things I've always been told doesn't work by health professionals dealing with sex. You have to keep in mind that sperm can survive for a few days in a woman's reproductive tract, so I don't see it doing anything but making people paranoid and in the end, most likely not working. I think it would be a bit irresponsible to rely on NFP and also sets the couple up for disaster if they get it wrong. Also, once again contraception has been around for a looooong time and divorce rates have changes through history. I think the main thing is that people don't take marriage seriously enough and it just seems like the thing that you do after awhile, but that's another post. In any case, that's my 2 cents.
"The trouble with having an open mind is people insist on coming along and putting things in it"-Terry Pratchett
Alright, NFP... I don't think it works. It is frequent that a woman's cycle changes, particularly if she is around other women on a daily basis. I know my period got screwed up when I moved in with a bunch of girls, and it's been pretty irregular up until about a year ago. So there's no way to determine if you are fertile except temperature, really, so other than shutting down for like a week (since sperm can survive in the body up to 3 days), that's not a really effective way of PREVENTING pregnancy. It's good for trying to get pregnant, though.
As the other person that responded to you said, contraception has been around for a long time. Margaret Sanger (look her up, why don't you) just made a huge movement in the early 20th century that made contraceptives more avaliable to women, so that they could have more control over when they have kids, and if they don't want kids, they could prevent it. During that time, divorce was still frowed upon in the US, to the point where you could only get a divorce in cases of adultery, abuse... and maybe something else.
Google isn't always reliable, and furthermore, correlation does not prove causation. Any stats class will tell you that. Even if the incidence of divorce has gone up since contraception in America has become avaliable doesn't mean that contraception caused it. There could be another factor at work... like, say, the laid back attitude of sex and love in the 60's, and people growing out of that phase by the 80's, realizing they were in horrible marriages, and thus breaking them up.
~C
Visit my blog.
First of all, it's a fact that in this day and age, more and more people are having sex outside of marriage. and whether you like it or not, this isn't going to stop. It's just the way that the times are changing, especially with young people becoming more independent. I'm not a virgin, but that doesn't mean that I'm irresponsible or that I don't believe in God or the sanctity of marriage. And people like me, believe it or not, are not a minority in this country. The major thing that bothers me about your opinion is that it is so closed-minded. In a controversial argument such as this, it is important to address both sides, which you don't do very well.
This is one of the points in your post that bothered me the most:
"sex with contraception doesn't even make sense because it is the body saying 'I don't give all of myself to you" or "I don't love you unconditionally-you have to change part of yourself before we engage in sexual love". So....even if you are having sex outside of marriage "because you love each other," the body is not speaking a a truthful love, but a lie."
One again, the fact is out there that people have sex when they are not married. I lost my virginity to my current boyfriend, and neither one of us has had another partner, and we do plan on getting married after we finish college. However, even though we love each other deeply, we still use contraception because let's face it, having a child at a young age, especially when one or both parents are attempting to finish their education, is nearly impossible. It's a question of priorities, and my priorities lie in getting a good education to be able to make enough money to provide for the family that i do hope to have someday. Just because my boyfriend and I use contraception doesn't mean that we love each other any less than a couple that doesn't. it means that we love each other so much that we don't want to mess up each other's lives by having a child right now. In my opinion, it's the people that don't use contraceptives that have more abortions, because they become pregnant when they're not ready for it.
It also sickens me to think that divorce is prevented by having a child, as you stated in your post. Divorce is always going to happen, whether the couple bears children or not, or whether they have kids right away or wait. That has nothing to do with divorce. Divorce occurs for several reasons, mainly centered around the fact that for one reason or another the couple has fallen out of love, or can no longer be together. It has nothing to do how early or late they bore children, if at all.
And the idea that women that use contraceptives are viewed as "sex objects" is absolutely atrocious. In my opinion, the degradation of women happens only because certain women allow themselves to be treated as such. I know many strong women, and very few of them are virgins, and the ones that arent all use contraceptives during sex. Does that mean that they are any less of a person? No. They can be just as much a productive member of society as you are.
The bottom line is, issues such as sexual preference, use of contraceptives, waiting until marriage, and even abortion, are all personal matters. You can't look at someone and tell whether or not they're a virgin, and you shouldn't be able to, because what happens behind closed doors is your business and your business only. Religion and Government shouldn't try to control people's actions in their personal lives.
...But we will see...since I have not gotten much sleep at all for the past two nights...and ate the first meal I have eaten in two days at lunch time....Soooooo, here we go.
Ok, So we will start with evolutiongeeks comments. Actually NFP is NOT the rhythm method. "Modern NFP methods are not so-called rythm methods, which date back to the 1930's. When couples understand a method and follow its guidelines, NFP is 99 percent effective at determining the exact days when a woman may be fertile. Natural Family Planning is completely reversible so it can be used to space children one month and achieve conception the very next month. This fact is something that artificial methods cannot claim." Soooo that is that on Rythm methods and NFP.
Ok, for mvenus929, you are right about the temperature, which is a part of NFP which I fogot to mention....(whoops!) like I said, I know a little about it, but not a ton, but my mom and dad teach NFP so they know tons and tons about it. And yes, I do know who Margaret Sanger is, I have heard a bit about her. Soooo yeah. And like I said somewhere in an above comment, I said that yes, you guys are right, contraception DEFINITELY isn't the only cause for divorce, there are tons of them (causes).
Okay, and lastly for jessorzluvsu's comment. I do sincerely hope you are wrong that sex outside of marriage won't stop. Not that I want YOU to be wrong, but that that just makes me sad. And unfortunately I am aware that those who save sex for marriage are the minority. And also, you had said that it bothered you about my close mindedness on this topic, well...sorry, it is my opinion...I am not laying down the law, just what I think. I want to present you with a "what if". I am not at all saying or expecting this to happen, or anything like that, I am just saying, "what if you are your boyfriend were to break up. Wouldn't you be sad that you hadn't saved sex, which is honestly the most precious and special gift you can give to your husband, for the man you really will end up marrying?"
I don't believe divorce is PREVENTEd by having a child, I believe that you are at least a little less likely to GET a divorce if you have a child.
What disturbes me about your post is that you said "Divorce occurs for several reasons, mainly centered around the fact that for one reason or another the couple has fallen out of love, or can no longer be together." LOve is not always a feeling. It is a choice. For example, couples aren't going to ALWAYS have that butterflies in the stomach, week at the knees, smile when I see you kind of feeling. SOmetimes you have to CHOOSE to love your spouse. Like, my mom says she doesn't ALWAYS FEEL like loving my dad, so she has to CHOOSE to and perservere, through the good times and the bad. So pretty much I am saying, you can't fall out of love with someone like yousaid, because love is a choice not alwasy a feeling.
You also said "the idea that women that use contraceptives are viewed as "sex objects" is absolutely atrocious.". WHo said that? Did I? I didn't mean that if I said it,a nd I don't remember saying that. I don't think women who use contraceptives are viewed as sex objects. I mean, I know people who use contraceptives and I don't view them as sex objects. But I do agree with you that the degredation of women happens because some women allow themselves to be degraded sadly enough. (COnfidence girls!!!!) You also said, "They can be just as much a productive member of society as you are.[women who use contraceptives]". Of course they can...again, did I say they couldn't? Everyone has a value regardless of what they do.
But the final thing I want to say, is that I do disagree with you on the point where you said, "Religion and Government shouldn't try to control people's actions in their personal lives." I disagree. REligion, (if you have committed yourself to a specific religion) should be a MAJOR part of your life. Your life should revolve around religion. God should be the center of you life always. That is all I have to say for now! God Bless.
I disagree with you on one main thing.
You said: LOve is not always a feeling. It is a choice. For example, couples aren't going to ALWAYS have that butterflies in the stomach, week at the knees, smile when I see you kind of feeling. SOmetimes you have to CHOOSE to love your spouse. Like, my mom says she doesn't ALWAYS FEEL like loving my dad, so she has to CHOOSE to and perservere, through the good times and the bad.
You're confusing a few things. Romantic love is the kind that you have butterflies in the stomach, weak in the knees type feeling. That does fade over time. It's inevitable. However, that love is replaced by another type of love... one that bonds the two people together. I believe it's called companionate love, but I'm not the psych major, my boyfriend is. But anyway, this type of love is the type where you actually want to work through the problems. You care for the other person, and want to take care of them, and all that sort. Couples fight all the time. It is this second type of love that helps couples stay together. For this love... you can't choose to feel it. You either do or you don't. I don't always feel like loving my boyfriend, particularly when we get into a really nasty fight, but I always do, even if I won't admit it when I'm mad. Yes, I choose not to walk away from him, but I'm not choosing to love him at that moment. In fact, we usually get frustrated when we're in the middle of a fight and can't deny that we truly love each other.
Yeah, that's my comment for tonight. Enjoy.
~C
Visit my blog.
First of all, i do understand your point, and i would actually like to tell you that you do alot better at making an intelligent argument on little sleep than i would in the same condition. Anyways, as to your first question, if my boyfriend and I were to break up, I would probably feel awkward for at least a little while if I tried to get into a serious relationship again. But, I wouldn't necessarily be sad that I hadn't saved it, but that's probably just me.
And I do understand that the romantic "feeling" of love does fade away over time, but my point was that it takes more than just the responsibility of having a child to keep people together.
"Another bad thing contraceptives does, is it eliminates the need to even think about sex and what you are doing, thus degrading women to mere sex objects used for satisfaction and pleasure, because sex is no longer reverent because nothing can come from it."
I read that as saying that contraception causes women to be degraded, maybe that isn't what you meant by that statement, so you can probably clarify that for me. If I read it wrong I'm sorry, but I was appalled to think that someone can relate contraception to negative body image in that way at all.
And about the religion comment, the only thing i have to say is yes, if you follow a religion, you should follow its laws, but it's YOUR responsibilty to follow the word of God. I believe that the purpose of the church is to convey God's word to the masses, not to enforce it, which is what the church tends to do these days. I understand that the religion itself should be a major part of your life, but if you are that commmitted to it, I don't think you need your church to tell you what is right and wrong. You can figure it out for yourself.