First, I'd like to start saying I believe in God and Jesus and that he died for my sins. I believe in the Bible. But
I HATE RELIGION
My deffiniton of religion is however, the organization itself. I believe churches are necessary however to get more members and spread Christianity as a whole, but everyone fights. Different religions do not get along. In the Christian faith alone there are a ton of different denominations. No one can agree. It is stupid. Therefore, I think Religion is stupid.
Furthermore, I was watching TV. A church channel where they video tape mass and play it on TV was on, and they had a commercial for a video and book called. The De Vinci Deception. It was $40 and was why the Da Vinci was a decption. Why the book is wrong and bad. IT IS FICTION. Not all churces do this, but this perticular one pisses me off. This is just a stupid scheme for them to make money. What is up with that. Come on people. The book is fiction, Dan Brown himself admits it. The book is enjoyable and well written and anyone can enjoy it. If they are stupid enough to think that those relgoins do those things then they probably also believe that Robert Langdan is a real person and that there is writing on the Mona Lisa. They probably believe that Mary Magdaline is Jesus wife and stupid stuff like that. These people that are all stupid about this are annoying me and need to get over it. Everyone knows it is a fiction. Maybe I'll put out a book for 40 dollars. It will have a cool title like The Da Vinci Code Unraveled. It will be a one page book. It will say:
"Here is why you should not believe what they say in the Da Vinci Code as truthful, because the book is FICTION."
-Hutch
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I'm with you Hutch, I'm with you.
Ok... well If she wasnt Jesus' wife than who was she?? Do you believe she was a prostitute??? if so than I am afraid that you have been mis-informed! You find that anywhere in the bible that she was a prostitute... and I dont mean a bible that was translated and changed in the 1900's... I mean an origional Arabic or Greek translation. which I know how to read and have done so. Mary Magdaline was in fact not a prostitute but a woman who was raped by Saul, one of Jesus' 13 deciples( not 12 as most believe) and labeled as "un-faithful" to her husband because he did not believe her. It also goes on to say that she bared children by the "son of man!" Which we all know to be Jesus Christ. There fore that would probably make her his wife. Today's bible also says that Jesus never sinned in his life, however in origional text it says that when Jesus was young he played evil juvenile tricks on his peers that he did not care for. It wasnt untill he was a teenager that he began to use his powers for good.... You also probably believe in the whole Father, Son, Spirit... translation which in actuality the translation is Blood, Body, Water and not father son Spirit. Research a little!
Money making schemes by religious organizations irk me! Like the Kabbalah spiritual bracelet. It cost $30 for a piece of lousy string!
Do not get me wrong churches need money. They generally do not sell stuff and they support charities it's all good..but creating schemes is ridiculous
-Hutch
Yeah that is kind of ridiculous I guess.
a good quote "It's not God I hate, it's his fan club I can't stand."
Churches are just a tax shelter coupled with a pyramid style get rich quick scheme. What's rude is that they are making money off of NOTHING!!! They don't make a product, they don't supply an education! They just make money off of threatening people with a roast in some afterlife thing that they invented to Make Money! And they suck your money to get bigger and recruit more suckers. It's a money making scheme that works, but about as ethical as selling fake land in Florida to naive Senior citizens. The churches are just Sick!
I won't lie, this happens a lot, but there are some genuinely good churches that have no interest in money other than paying for property taxes.
Your statement can be analogous with the following:
"All Mexicans are greasy criminals."
"All black people like watermelon."
Not true, they do supply an education. The money is also not mandatory. It is always charity. I do believe in giving tithe (that's the money that goes in the collection basket) if the church does a good job of teaching what it is suppose too. It is the money that they make off of saying a fictional book isn't true. UMM..DUH..that's why its fiction
-Hutch
"What can I say, that can explain, all this time I'm loving life..."
-The Starting Line
Ah, yes. My statement was Definately an incorrect Generalization. Let me correct the statement. Any church that requires actions from thier members in exchange for a good seat in the afterlife is Sick. An example would be someone having to vote this or that way, pay this or that due, listen to this or that guy... Etc. It is coersion and blackmail to do that to people. Controling them with Eternal Afterlife threats. And THAT is what makes a Sick Church. And if a Church doesn't control it's members with the threat of Torture in the afterlife, then they are not necessarily Sick. Thank you for correcting my previous response that was misstated.
Fair enough..I have yet to see a church that does what you say would make it sick however. I hope I never do. The whole threats of Hell and all were back in the old days.
-Hutch
I think they do provide education, at least in the fact that they try and teach people what is right and wrong, based on their beliefs. I think many churches also teach people that it is good to help and be a part of your community.
Just because the Da Vinci Code is fiction doesn't mean it can't present notions that are profoundly dangerous to the beliefs underlying Christianity. If you read it, and completely disregarded everything Dan Brown tried to include as fiction, then you obviously misunderstood the point of the book. Mr. Brown brought a compelling point thats been on the fringe of religious studies into the mainstream, in the context of a fictional book. Certainly, we should not treat it as a historical analysis, but it is based upon many works of non-fiction (i.e. look to recent issues in the news where Brown was accused of plagarism from books on the same issues presented in the Da Vinci Code: non-fiction books). Therefore, religion has every right to present books rebutting the concepts presented in the Da Vinci Code.
I simply disagree with this. It is fiction. Most people except those that are like, I DON'T BELIEVE THIS. Do not read it as non-fiction...and do not question the church. The only thing I have heard that is about the church at all is the church defending itself...FROM NOTHING
-Hutch
"What can I say, that can explain, all this time I'm loving life..."
-The Starting Line
I think religion is important. It's great that you believe in God and Jesus, but there's so much more to it when you are involved in a religion with people who believe in the same things. God wants us to believe in Him, but the Bible says how it's so much more powerful when people come together and unify. God wants there to just be one religion - He doesn't like the Christianity has split up into so many denominations. One reason I feel that Catholicism is good is because it was founded by Jesus Himself. He instituted the first Pope as well as the first sacrament of Communion. I also love the Catholic faith because of Communion. It is the Holy Eaucharist, which is Jesus Himself. It's a miracle occurring at every single Catholic Mass and I feel privledged to get to partake in that miracle every week.
I agree with you there. I am also Catholic, but I do not know how much I like the faith to be honest. Where does it say however that he instituted the first pope. And also, all christains do eucarist, just not at every mass. I think the eucarist is a symbol more than the wine and bread turning into Jesus flesh and blood...but is that supported by anything...actually more specific, is that supported by the Bible?
-Hutch
"What can I say, that can explain, all this time I'm loving life..."
-The Starting Line
I don't have the section right now, but I know the Bible mentions Jesus' appointing of the first Pope.
As for the Eucharist, I hate when Catholics don't realize how special it is. Every Christian religion has Communion, but it is just a symbol. At Catholic Mass, it is NOT a symbol - it becomes the Eucharist and literal body and blood of Christ. It has even been tested and it has an AB blood type I think. (I don't remember which blood type, but it has been proven to have a blood type). At every single Mass a miracle is occurring and you don't even realize it. In some churches (now this is rare of course), the host turned into visible flesh. Normally it still appears to be blood, but in this case it actually looked like human flesh. The miracle of Lanciano, Italy is another Eucharistic miracle. If you ask a Catholic priest if the host and wine are just symbols, they will definitely say no.
I simply do not believe that it does this everytime. If at all. Maybe there was a miricale before, like once or twice. But I just take it as a symbol..Do not get me wrong, it is important, and I appreciate it..but I dunno. Get the study or some facts to support and I'll look at it and see what I think.
-Hutch
But this is what the Catholic faith is about. I don't know how anyone can go to a Catholic Mass and not believe in the miracle which is occurring. I don't know that there could be facts that it happens at every mass, but it just does. There could never be proof that it happens every time because the Eucharist is so holy that they would never let it go out to be scientifically tested every single week. But in the past it has been tested. My computer is broken right now, so I don't have the links, but if you type something like, "The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano, Italy," you'll probably find sites that talk about the Eucharist turning into literal flesh. But why, if you think it's just a symbol, is it so bad if it falls on the floor? And why do priests have to make sure every person eats it and doesn't just bring it back to their seats with them? And why are the people receiving it (at least in my diocese) supposed to bow? And in religious education I have always learned that it is not a symbol. That's one thing I hate about the Catholic Church. They don't stress enough during homilies how important the Eucharist actually is. I am positive that it is Jesus Christ Himself...literally. That's one of the things that makes Catholicism so different from every other denomination of Christianity.
In regard to Hutch's comments, I understand the frustration he feels in regard to churches and organized religion. Some responses to him, however, do clarify important points, especially in regard to churches engaged in community building and education. Hutch will benefit a good deal from closer study of the churches (both Catholic and Protestant) in their historical and theological development. A few of his questions cry out for more sound theological information than he has presently available. For the most part, churches are good organizations, trying to do a good job, but also composed of weak and fallible human beings - people just like Hutch himself.
You do not know me. Why am I a weak and fallible human being? I simply disagree with churches selling DVD's on why a fiction book is not true. I actually attend Church every suday. I do not disagree with Church...it is religion. THE CHURCH. As in the people at the top, the ones that are so strict to there faith that it gets violent and everyone can not get along. The fact that there is not ONE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. There are many. You can not even find an exact number there are so many. Do not judge me. I take it you are not Christian...if so, read the Bible. The one about casting the first stone...yeah..it's a good chapter.
-Hutch
I think that when religion is taken on a personal level, then it can be truly appreciated.
I agree Religion has gotten way out of hand. Some people say that religon was creating by the people to scare the people. And in most times in history people did use religion as a scare tatic. But to say that all religion is bad would be wrong. I think the da vinci code is just a ploy for churches to use to make christians more afraid of the firey pit they already fear so much.
Many people are misled already in this world by false religions, twisted truths, weak flesh and so on… But to publish a "FICTION" book as you clearly defined it, and which I agree is "FICTION" even beyond fiction its heresy. This book is one plagued with a mish-mosh of mystery and half truths and only pollutes and confuses those that are lost even more.
In regards to making money off a book or video exposing literary pollution why should it offend you that people want to make money on their hard work? If you assembled a book / video exposing a disillusioning fictional book that you felt would miss lead many immature people into believing a false doctrine would you expect to get paid for it, even more so would you not want to expose it?
Here is my take: People have the miss conception that Christians should give everything away free and not get paid for their hard work. If you read any of the books exposing the miss leading statements in Dan Browns book you would see that they spent a lot of time and resources to expose the truth unlike Dan Brown who spews it out without any research to back it up. Maybe he should have read the Bible before puking out garbage unfounded half truths…
The fact is that the book Dan Brown published is a book of part-truths so he catches the attention of the intellectuals with mystery and conspiracy and leads the already lost to question Biblical Truth.
So instead of bashing Church’s and or those that would try to equip others with the truth try to take a broader look at the situation before making such blanketed statements the promote ignorance…
If it is important for the church to clear up the Da Vincie Deseption as they put it, they would make it free..so that everyone can know the truth if it is so important...There is another book that churches give out for free cause they believe it is important...oh yeah, The Bible.
-Hutch
So please goto your workplace tomorrow and tell them they don't need to pay you, that your work is important and you will do it for free.
"concider the lillies"
Christianity was founded as a political tool, and it expresses it's political usage throughout history. The church used religion as a money making tool, such as the indulgences incident involving Martin Luther and his 95 theses. Besides as a political tool, it was used to unify the roman empire, as it was made 325 years later after Jesus' death. Many were killed over not believeing by Emperor Constatine. Now, if Jesus really had brought peace to the world, would people be killed over it? The New Testament has brought nothing but world turmoil; the crusades, witch trials, Constatine killing non-believers; the list goes on and on. If you refuse to believe Dan Brown, then no coersion is made against that. If you don't believe it was a political tool, fine. Just keep slaughtering.
"nothing but"? . . . hmmm . . . well, I really must disagree with you there. If you have ever realy read the New Testement, I highly doubt you would say that. The instances you bring up were NOT a result of the New Testement or the principles taught in it. It has much more to do with the political side of religion. I know of no religion that teaches only what comes from the Bible. Each religion has its own interpretation of what passages in the Bible mean. It is when these interpretations get out of hand that the slaughtering you refer to occurs. I have not read more that the first few chapters of Mr. Brown's book (simply because I have not gotten hold of more than that) so I am unclear concerning his standpoint. I understand that he refers to a sect of the church that, in my opinion, goes overboard in "doing the work of God." I have seen many groups break off from the truth and it almost always results in people getting hurt. This is all I have time to say right now.
Hey wait, there are some good groups that only focus on the morals and values taught in the Bible, not everything literaly! wow.
I said, "I know of no religion that teaches ONLY what comes from the Bible." I know of many that teach their INTERPRETATION of the morals and values taught in the Bible. I don't think it's possible to form a way of teaching from the Bible without making an interpretation. Notice how many religions teach from the Bible. Each religion believes (or, in some cases, appears to believe) that their interpretation is correct. *major opinion warning - please do not get offended* This is why we need modern revelation. I am blessed to belong to a church that (you are free to believe it or to not believe it) actually has that. It makes everything a lot clearer when you know what is expected of you and when you have guidance on your specific situation. I am not making this as clear as I had hoped, but I hope my general meaning was portrayed.
I totally DIG the Da Vinci Code, it's a wonderful book. Unfortunately, people are only analyzing it from a LITERAL perspective. Writers don't always come out and say exactly what they mean in the exact words, otherwise, they would be preachers! (NOT meant to offend, I promise!) And honestly, a good writer's goal IS to present options to people and that WILL make people think and question things for themselves, and that's NEVER a crime. Faith especially, should be very personal and it should be something that gives our INDIVIDUAL lives more meaning.
As far as religion goes... Honestly, in my opinion, religion is there on a "come if you need us" basis. If organized religion does not enrich your life, then it's probably better for you [and them] if you're not there. One of the lessons I've learned throughout my life is that if you feel something in life is holding you back personally, then it's better to just cut it out of your life. You don't have to accept the negative in order to accept the positive, and the positive is that which enriches our life here on Earth.
I hope whatever you need to find, you find it. Don't let the negative bring you down!
Emily Tate
Georgia Institute of Technology
Ivan Allen College of Liberal Arts
School of Public Policy
gtLilith@gatech.edu
home equity line of credit
home equity line of credit
I still think this thread is a tad bit ridiculous. There are many 'fictional' books throughout history which have had a great impact on society, because the ideas they presented, while presented through a fictional lens, were contrary to the ideas that the majority of society believed in (Uncle Tom's Cabin comes to mind here, as well as the Christian Gospels themselves). Why is there any legitimate reason that a fictional book can't present ideas which spark societal debate and change mindset? We shouldn't just disregard the ideas presented in a novel because it's 'fiction.'
With each book (or realy anything) that has a great impact on society comes a general type of moaning and groaning. Society does not like to change. At least, not quickly. I think what Hutch means (please correct me if I'm wrong, Hutch) is that it gets annoying dealing with the moaning and groaning, expecially since this book isn't nearly in the Uncle Tom's Cabin range.
and not very nice politics at that.
One day mankind will wake up from this terrible slumber of the mind, and realise that there is no God, certainly not on the lines of the one that mankind imagines. This will indeed be a happy day, but while profit and control can be obtained through it, religion will live on.
You are equating faith in God to religion, and religion to politics, but I would argue that faith in God (or any other deity) does not have to be connected to religion at all, and therefore does not have to be connected to politics at all, meaning that your disgusting disregard for people who don't have the same beliefs as you has no bearing or significance.
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You are the Voice of the Childwen of the Revowution! [Toulouse, Moulin Rouge]