I think that the decision to have an abortion should be up to the mother in some cases. It isn't up to the state or federal government to decide if a woman should have the choice of abortion. If a woman is raped she should have the choice of having the baby or not. Personally, I wouldn't want to have the constant reminder of being raped every day. It would be harder to raise a child that you gave birth to because of a rape. I think that eventually the mother would hate the child and it wouldn't be fair to the child or the mother. I also think that abortion should be a choice in the matter of incest. There are so many things that could go wrong with having a child out due to incest. Abortion should be legal in medical matters. If having the baby will somehow harm the mother or the child, an abortion should be legal. My aunt had to have an abortion because the child had all of the organs on the outside of the body and if the child was carried to term and was born, it would have died anyway and it could have harmed my aunt.
But on the other hand there are times when abortion shouldn't be a choice. If someone has sex and knows the consequences of their actions they should have to go through with the birth. If they are having sex with someone and they don't want a baby they should either NOT HAVE SEX, USE PROTECTION or DEAL WITH THE CHANCE OF HAVING THE BABY. Just because a person is in their teens, and they have sex it doesn't exempt them from having to face the reality of having the baby. I think that sex education should be taught in every high school even if the parents "talk" with their child about it. I think it should be a required class and that the students should learn the ways to protect themselves and their partner, they should learn to take care of a baby, and how to prevent sexually transmitted diseases from occuring.
Abortion......Right or Wrong?
By fkj62308 - Posted on February 6th, 2008
Tagged: pro-abortion
I agree. I think it people are stupid, they should face the consequences. I do not think, however, that their should be laws to that affect.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
Benjamin Franklin
*sing-song voice* Abortion is a consequence.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
My point exactly.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
Benjamin Franklin
...exactly. Abortion is physically and emotionally traumatizing and is certainly a very negative consequence to sex. And come on... teaching a kid that actions have consequences by making her have a baby? O.o That's ridiculous.
Just to clarify......I didn't mean to make it sound like I was putting incest and the rape together. I mean them as 2 separate issues.
<<>>FKJ<<>>
Ok... I don't know what that has to do with my argument, since I was referring to this nice little tidbit...
Abortion is a consequence. Maybe not the one you want them to deal with (raising a child), but it is a consequence nonetheless. One with lifelong physical and mental difficulties, similar to raising the child in the first place, or giving it up for adoption. It's not an easy way out.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Regardless of why a woman gets pregnant or what the consequences may be, it's still taking a life from this world hence murder.
Do you eat meat?
Do you swat mosquitos?
I am not sure how you can ask do you eat meat or do you swat mosquitos...
Is killing a baby like killing a mosquito?
I mean basic reasoning here...
If eating beef and killing bugs is like sucking a heartbeating blessing such as a child out of the womb...
Then what is keeping us from killing anyone that we don't want around us, and doing so in the name of carnivors everywhere?
Jeanna Marie
"There are so many things that could go wrong with having a child out due to incest."
You know, I've heard that there really aren't that many "problems" with incestuous birth than people seem to assume there are.
Do you have any sources?
----
What's the worst that could happen, apart from all of us being flattened or fried or whatever bombs do? [Rudy Steiner from The Book Thief]
http://progressiveu.org/143541-how-to-survive-the-2008-elections
The chance of genetic issues due to incest are fairly small. But I would say the main issue for children born from incest from rape, is the psychological effect it has on the person that came from the incident. Imagine the kind of issues that a person has who knows they were conceived because their grandfather raped their mom (or whatever the situation).
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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That's what I've heard.
I know where you're coming from with the psychological argument....... I'm just confused why the writer of the blog didn't just attach the incest argument with the rape one, or clarify that they meant incestous rape (if they indeed did.)
As long as the writer didn't mean the chances of genetic issues are great, I'm a happy camper. I'm not an expert in the area (by any means), but I've heard otherwise.
----
What's the worst that could happen, apart from all of us being flattened or fried or whatever bombs do? [Rudy Steiner from The Book Thief]
http://progressiveu.org/143541-how-to-survive-the-2008-elections
Wikipedia has a fairly good and unbiased article regarding the genetic issues with incest. It's rather hard to find information about incest without having to dig through the mountains of mental health articles regarding incestuous rape, which is the main reason why I'm linking Wikipedia for this matter. I was, however, able to find this article as well, if you don't feel the Wikipedia entry is reliable enough.
What it boils down to is that the likelihood of chromosomal defects increases the closer the relationship between the two partners (ie - siblings will be more likely to have children with defects than first cousins and both will be significantly more likely than unrelated partners). Genetic diseases like hemophilia were extremely common. One example was the British royal family, who had more than twenty members with hemophilia in 100 years.
-- quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you look at it from either a religious or scientific viewpoint, we are all born from incest because we all come from the same starters of homo sapiens. It might not be direct incest, but it is incest in a sense.
Sad but true...still, God gives us free will so the woman indeed should have the final choice, after all, each human is responisble for their own actions...theirs and theirs alone and nobody else's so why should WE tell someone what to do ?
Depends on what God your talking about when you talk of it giving free will.
Yeah. Don't say that to a Calvinist.
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
Benjamin Franklin
Exactly or you'll find yourself in more trouble then a non-christian at the inquisition
:))
"-bah!! Pardon the "bah!" I feel several "bahs!", but out of courtesy I only say one."
H.P. Lovecraft
I'm sure one day I'll be shot for those kinds of jokes. Like this one..."Next year's Mardi Gras Theme in New Orleans is going to be "Under The Sea".
:idk:
"-bah!! Pardon the "bah!" I feel several "bahs!", but out of courtesy I only say one."
H.P. Lovecraft
Okay, so lets make an exception of raped, abused, incested conceived babies, because that is probably 500 cases a year. Have you seen the stats on ABORTION? 4000 babies are aborted A DAY in the United States. That is 1,420,000 kids a year... you know minus 10 yearly holidays. Give me a break. Did you know that Jane Roe of Roe vs. Wade never even had an abortion? Do some real research... because this info being delivered is not accurate.
Jeanna Marie
It's more than 500 cases. It's more like 14, 000. Abortions of pregnancies due to rape and incest are about 1% of all abortions. You may say 1% is not a lot, but 14,000 is a lot .
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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That was exactly my point, so we keep the 1%, and eliminate the other 99% and then it is justifyable. But slaughtering over a million kids a year is not excusable.
Jeanna Marie
They're not children. And what about all the fetuses with genetic diseases or disorders? Don't you think it should be the parents choice whether they bring that into the world?
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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So what makes them not children? The fact that they are not self substantial? If that is the case then we can still kill them up to almost 7 right? We can leave newborns to die if we choose? Because they can't live without support still...
And what about those with genetic diseases and disorders? People who have disorders don't deserve life? Wow... No, it isn't the parents choice at that point... are you saying you would love your children only if they are born perfectly healthy? Maybe people with that mentality should just be neutered... therefore preventing that mentality altogether.
Jeanna Marie
Wow, you're really good at attributing statements to people that never actually said them.
I would say that fetuses aren't people and therefore aren't children because I define personhood as being conscious of one's own existence. But as an aside, until a fetus can live outside the womb, the woman who's pregnant is the only one who can and should be in charge of its existence or termination.
As for fetuses with genetic diseases or disorders, I think its the parents' choice whether they want to bring them into the world knowing what the fetus' future quality of life will be like. As for how I would feel, I don't know whether I would want to give birth to a child if I knew that they would never reach a mental age higher than 5 or be able to live without near constant supervision for the rest of their life (which includes after I die). It's not about not loving them, it's about thinking about their possible future life. I don't think I'm alone in believing that just giving someone the gift of life isn't good enough. I think its irresponsible to not even consider the life you're giving a fetus by giving birth to them.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, and I apologize.
All I was trying to say is that I disagree :-)
I do not think that like you are saying they will never mature past age of 5 etc... they have good diagnostics tests now, however they cannot define the level of retardation simply by tests done before birth. Also, there have been so many cases of children born with diseases that have been cured... or cripiling attributes that have been cured... I dont think it is up to us to make that call on denying them life.
I mean you could in all aspect have a child... that grows up to be a raping, murdering lunatic... so in that instance... wouldnt you rather be the mother of a wheel chair bound child that loves life, and brings joy to all around them... I am just saying that each child is different... they are all people... all kinds of different people... all with the right to life.
Jeanna Marie
Depending on the diagnosis from prenatal genetic testing, you can tell how with pretty fair certainty how developmentally delayed they will be.
If you could give me an example of a genetic disease or disorder that has been diagnosed with prenatal genetic testing and has since been cured, I would find that very interesting. It should really be up to the parents whether they want to risk giving birth to a child diagnosed with a genetic disease that may or may not be cured in their child's life. I don't know if I would want to give birth to a child diagnosed with cystic fibrosis knowing that they'd live years with a debilitating disease, only being able to hope that scientists would find a cure. That's a huge risk to take and not really something Id want to subject my child to.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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No one wants to subject their child to pain... but if the only alternative is death... then obviously you want life... I wasn't too sure what CB was so I was just reading up on it, and all the research I read said this:
babies with CF can grow to lead nearly normal lives, going to school with everyone else, playing on the playground, and being a kid, even if the adults are being more vigilant. The prospects for children with cystic fibrosis keep getting better: Several decades ago most babies with CF died by the age of 2. Today, a child born with cystic fibrosis is likely to live until his mid 30s.
Why would you not want that? When obviously medicine is coming a long way for them.
Jeanna Marie
Cystic fibrosis is only one of those diseases. I'm surprised that you find a life expectancy of 30 years to be desirable. And the quality of life of a person with cystic fibrosis deteriorates over time, so keep in mind that those 30 some odd years are not all healthy ones.
I think you make a big assumption when you say that if the choice was between a life of pain and suffering versus no life at all, everyone would choose life. They obviously don't. That's why people abort fetuses with debilitating genetic diseases, why people have DNR's, and why people ask for assisted suicide when they are terminally ill.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Life until 30 or no life at all?
If the life is nothing but pain and suffering, none at all.
There's a reason they call them "mercy kills."
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
My son was born w/ bilaterial club feet, one 45 degrees off and one 65 degrees off, he had to have 11 surgeries in 10 yrs, are you saying that in the even that a child has to go through pain that it would be better off dead?
My son is 16 he lives a very normal life, he plays sports, runs, rides his bike, he thanks me all the time for caring enough to get him "fixed" as he puts it.
Children only know what they are taught, if you teach a child to be tolerant they will be, if you teach them to be strong they will be, none of us want our kids sick, but thats the deck that life dealt us, and even if i would have known before birth that he had a defect, it was my child & my childs defect that i would have dealt with.
Why put the blood on someone elses hands because you don't want to be responsible for the hand that your dealt?
I agree. Abortion should be up to the mother to decide herself, espically when sexual attacks are involved. What mother would want to be reminded of the tragic terror she went through every time she looks at her child? NONE..!
I really appreciate that your post examines abortion on a case by case basis. However, I do take issue with this :
"If someone has sex and knows the consequences of their actions they should have to go through with the birth"
Why should pregnancy be used as a means to punish someone for "poor judgment"? That doesn't seem very fair to the unborn child. Personally, I think that if a person or a couple takes all reasonable means of preventing a pregnancy and they somehow still get pregnant, they shouldn't have to carry the pregnancy to term if they don't want to.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Because at some point you have to be responsible for your own actions, whether poor or not. Pregnancy is not used as a means of punishment... it is the result of a choice. And if people take all reasonable means to prevent a pregnancy and they still get pregnant then that is still a choice that they made. Condoms say they are not 100% affective. Birth control says it is not 100% affective. The only thing 100% affective is abstinance. So if you are so against having a child that after all forms of protection you still end up pregnant then that is the result... abortion puts the blame on someone else, the child. If you don't want to even entertain the possibility of getting pregnant 110% THEN DON'T HAVE SEX!!!!!!!
Jeanna Marie
If a couple is using all necessary precautions to prevent a pregnancy, I think that means they're choosing not to get pregnant. So forcing that couple to give birth to a baby sounds like a punishment.
You make it sound like sex is a privilege that should be reserved for people who are willing and able to give birth to and take care of any fetus they get pregnant with.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
Purity Balls: For the Rich, White, Christian and (Slightly) Perverted
You make a baby sound like the worse thing that could possibly ever happen to people. No I am not saying that it is a punishment... and "take care of any fetus they get pregnant with? do you know how cruel that sounds? If the love each other, are in a great relationship, and having sex.... then the possibility of having a baby is taken into consideration. Besides the percetages show you that it is not people in a well balanced relationship that are having abortions everyday. It's the poor, uneducated, that makes up the majority.
Jeanna Marie
Getting pregnant could be one of the worst things that could happen to you if you're a high school or college student, a mother of two already living under the poverty line, or a woman with the chance of passing on a debilitating genetic disease who has already decided she doesn't want to give birth to her own biological children. That's why I think comprehensive sex education, affordable health care, and available, legal abortions are so important.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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I think you have a good argument, I dont agree with you, but I think your point is valid. I just feel how I feel. I used to be pro-choice. I had an abortion and went through the trama of that in itself and it changed me. It deeply wounded me as a person. It was a cheap easy way out of a bad situation. It only cost 300 bucks... it was done in a run down facility as so many are, it was done by a doctor that never even looked me in the face. Then I was placed in a healing room with 12 other girls all balling their eyes out. I am just saying from experience, that going through it makes you feel that child. If it was just like getting rid of a tumor or a finger, then why would you sit and naturally mourn? I have been through grief counseling for women who have post abortive stress disorders because the abortion haunts them day and night. I just think that it should not be as easy or as common as it is. I agree that there are certain situations that make it a good choice... however I do not think that there should be 1.4 million babies aborted yearly. That number is crazy to me.
Jeanna Marie
Not every woman is tortured by having an abortion. And I don't want to belittle your grieving process, because I'm sure what you went through was painful and real, but what you felt wasn't "post-abortion stress disorder" becuase it is not considered a real syndrome or diagnosis by the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, or any other mainstream authority. It's existence was made up and perpetuated by Crisis Pregnancy Centers and other anti-abortion organizations.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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well apparently the world has one of us brainwashed... I wonder which one.
sigh... again really? It all depends on which doctors you ask, pro-choice or pro-life doctors, pro-choice psychs or pro-life psychs.... funny no one seems to agree... but the one thing I do know... is that I have experienced it... and you can tell me that what I dealt with wasn't named post abortion stress disorder... but very real and painful... you better believe it was and thousands upon thousands of women across the country are dealing with that very feeling. Why is that?
I'd say that I side with the American Psychiatric Association and American Psychological Association. Just reading the rhetoric of organizations like Rachel's Vineyard, Victims of Choice and Healing Hearts Ministries is enough to know that they created PAS in order to exploit women for their cause
Here are some of the studies I found that found no evidence of PAS. President Reagan asked his Surgeon General C. Everett Koop (both of them were anti-choice) to examine the psychological effects of abortion on women in the late 80's. Much to both their dismay, there was insufficient evidence that abortion caused psychological trauma. The American Psychological Association did an extensive study in 1989 that found that abortions posed no hazard to women's mental health. And a more recent study by UC Santa Barbara in 2000 found that severe psychological stress was experienced by only about 1% of women who have abortions. That study found that the best predictor of a woman's mental state after an abortion was her mental state before an abortion.
I would say that the anti-abortion movement doesn't help the mental state of women having abortions by calling them murders.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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Have you been through an abortion? Because if you haven't then I hate to say it but you have no idea what you are talking about. Statistics are easy enough to make.. you can make one for whatever you want. The truth is that most people who have had an abortion who do seek help for it, are also held under coinfidentiality and most will never come forward and say they have had one. Out of the 1.4 million that happen yearly... how many do you think have actually been post abortion polled? Give me a break.
Jeanna Marie
So your argument is that statistics are crap and that's why your personal experience should speak for the majority?
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
My Latest Blog Posts
my point was that you can make stats say whatever you want to... there are people that do that for a living... my second point was not that my experience should speak for all, but that I am tired of pointless back and forth about something you are not changing your view anymore than I am... therefore... without creating a real argument, I am backing out. Because my experience... it was real, and the trauma, it is real because I have worked with others on theirs as well... the stats... can say whatever they want for either side... the truth is abortion is cheap. Responsibility is expensive. The world is cruel. end of story.
Abortion is murder
An apple is an apple
Bottom line
To be murdered you have to be alive.
Is a juice made of chemicals identical to those of apples still apple juice even if no "apple" was used?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Its called Post traumatic stress disorder & it is diagnosed by the American Psychiatric Association.
If you take a look at the APA's website, you will find that it's not actually called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, not according to the APA anyway...
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Don Williams, Jr.
Read my Blog!
The Sex Change Blog
When i noted that the APA recognized the diagnosis= PTSD is what i was refering to, not PAS.
Though you can read updates on the tesing & diagnosis being still inconclusive according to the 2006 study , its not uncommon if you read the diagnosis for PTSD that someone who has had an abortion could suffer from the symptoms that are described in the definition..
I believe that any traumatic event can cause you to suffer from PTSD, but that is my opinion of course, not every women who has an abortion feels PTSD some it doesnt even phase.
"If someone has sex and knows the consequences of their actions they should have to go through with the birth. If they are having sex with someone and they don't want a baby they should either NOT HAVE SEX, USE PROTECTION or DEAL WITH THE CHANCE OF HAVING THE BABY. Just because a person is in their teens, and they have sex it doesn't exempt them from having to face the reality of having the baby."
1. What if they do not truly understand the consequences? How can a teenager for instance, truly understand what having a baby is like, and how it will affect her?
2. Why mess up several lives just because of one kid's mistake? Great, now she'll have her life fucked up, and so will the father, and her parents and his parents life will be disrupted, etc, etc...
3. Protection can fail, and there are many misconceptions about it. Many kids simply aren't educated enough to know to always use condoms.
4. We really, REALLY don't need more unwanted and neglected children in this world.
I guess it is a good thing that Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, Neil Armstrong, Shakespeare, and George Washington's mothers all went through with their pregnancies... how many genius's have we killed this year? Maybe the cure for cancer, AIDS, global warming...maybe we killed the cure.
Jeanna Marie
That's a non-sequitor. The insinuation is that world would be worse without them. We don't know that. We can't know that. Ever single sperm or egg has the possibility of making a genius. Should masturbating be illegal? Contraception? Not having sex during a menstrual period? Why draw the line at abortion?
Oh, and, if you insist on making that argument. How many Hitlers did we nip in the bud?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Hmm... I see your point.... except not....
How can you say that masturbation and a conceived child are even on the same playing field? I am not talking about sperm and eggs, I am talking about conceived babies. They are babies. Little people. Not cum on sheets.
And your point about how many Hitlers we have eliminated... not a good argument either. Life and death are part of what makes the world go around. Hitler, Ghandi, Ted Bundy, Al Quiada, Aristotle, Jesus Christ, these are all people that have impact on the world. Good or bad is not the point, the point is they were given life. They had their chance to make decisions, right or wrong. These children are never given that chance... why not? Why aren't they considered people? Because that is what they are.... you come across a pregnant cat most people take them in, take them to the vet... try to save the kittens... do you know how many animals are in humane societies because they can't be taken care of? Yet... you don't abort kittens... or puppies... or anything else that we don't want to deal with... yet we do it to our own children....
Jeanna Marie
"How can you say that masturbation and a conceived child are even on the same playing field? "
The same way you equate a fetus to a living child.
"They are babies. Little people. Not cum on sheets."
Or clusters of cells that have the potential to become babies. Just like a reproductive cell. (name escapes me)
"And your point about how many Hitlers we have eliminated... not a good argument either."
I agree 100%. For the same reason that the argument that the number of Einstein's we've gotten rid of is a stupid argument. It's empty speculation. The egg that never left the ovary thanks to birth control pills could also be an Einstein. By that argument, whenever a menstruating woman does not become pregnant, she has committed a crime against humanity for denying it the possibility of a genius or hero.
Oh, and if my dog wasn't neutered and she got pregnant, I would consider that aborting that pregnancy an option. I would probably not do that. But I also would, on a personal level, not condone most abortions of human fetuses. However, and this is the main point, it is not my decision to make. Until the child is conscience of its surrounding (or in some way cognitive), then it is my contention that the rights of the already living woman supercede those of the not-yet living fetus.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Your point is very : how you say: weak?
Masturbating doesnt give the opportunity for the sperm to meet the egg, so no harm no foul..... actually , masterbation can lead to healthier sperm.
Contraception is an educated way of attempting to keep from becoming pregnant it doesnt kill the baby once its started its cycle of life.
What does having sex during your menstral cycle have to do with anything? you make no sense.
So your saying that Hitler wasnt a genius? he was a mastermind,(not saying he was right) but he had a plan for a perfect world. He just had a hell of a way to come to that perfect world.
Research= its important for daily life!
Expand your mind= Read a book
So you draw the line at the combination of two half-cells. The difference between a sperm and an egg and the two together is practically non-existent. Neither can think or feel. Neither is aware of anything. Both have the potential to become a human being, though one is a step further on, but neither are yet. That is my point. I don't say a couple of cells count as a human. When it can feel the pain of an abortion is where I draw the line.
Again, you call a couple of cells with no capacity for thought or sensation a baby. I do not.
And while certainly evil people can be geniuses I would not call Hitler one. But that isn't the point. The statement was made that it was lucky that many great (and good) men weren't aborted and grieved that so many could have been lost. If that is a valid argument, then it would be a pro-choice argument to say how bad it was that Hitler wasn't aborted and that we can be glad to think of how many Hitler could-have-beens were aborted. I think neither are valid arguments. I was using my argument to show the flaw in the Einstein version.
The sex during the menstrual cycle was a further refutation of the above argument. Any egg (or sperm) could become a genius who furthers humanity. Therefore, the 'waste' of those cells by not trying to become pregnant constantly is denying the world possible heroes. Obviously ridiculous. That is the point.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
If they made it through the 8th grade they had health class , that means they had sex education & know the consequences of sex = baby= responsibility. My best friend had her son when she was 17 and he is a freshman in college, she did fine, took responsibility & raised her son!
Several lives w/ 1 kids mistake? How selfish!!!!! So kill a baby to save face for the teenagers? are you for real???????
There are classes in every school about protection, hell you get instructions in the box of condoms!!! thats a complete cop out!!!
You wanted to have sex you just dont want the responsibility that goes along with it!!!!
So you use killing unborn babies as your easy out!!!
****
****edited by sawaboof for TOS violation (8.03.08)
There are classes in every school about protection
No, there aren't. Most schools opt for abstinence only sex education these days. Not only do they not teach even basic facts of, or how to effectively use contraception, they have a tendency to give false and misleading information about the effectiveness of contraceptives, the risks of abortion, and the prevention of HIV and other STIs. For example, one program teaches that condoms fail 31% of the time. Decrease that number by about 30, and you'll have an actual answer based on research and not an agenda to scare kids out of having sex (http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20041201102153-50247.pdf).
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Don Williams, Jr.
Read my Blog!
The Sex Change Blog
Well my children had health class in 8th grade & had very indepth conversations regarding sex, babies ,i had to sign a permission slip for them to participate in the classes.
i am sorry that the school systems are failing , but there are parents that can teach their children right from wrong? correct?
i had to sign a permission slip for them to participate in the classes.
That's another thing, too. If a parent decided to not sign the permission slip allowing their child to participate in a comprehensive sex ed class, the school cannot even let (much less make) the child go to the class. This leaves the responsibility entirely on the parent. That, in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but when you have parents that do it because they feel that the only thing that should be taught is abstinence until marriage or even feel, for whatever reason, that their child should not be taught about sex, that's where the problems happen because then you have a child that's starting to feel biological urges and have no idea what's going on or what to do.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Thus, I believe all women out there should have the same choice. Do what you believe is right and not what the Gov't tells us is right or wrong. Trust me, the Gov't isn't looking after your best interests anyways, just trying to control another aspect of humanity in my opinion.
Fight for freedom or die! Plain and simple.
Exactly! The government should not be the ones to tell us if abortion is right or wrong in their eyes. I do not want their religious beliefs interfering with mine. If someone makes a mistake and gets pregnant by not using protection, it should still be their choice whether to abort the baby or not. They might make a bad decision either way, but it should NOT, let me repeat, NOT be up to the government.
~we're the new face of failure~
RIP STEPH
At some point someone has to say this is wrong this is right...
The gov't tells us speeding is wrong, the gov't tells us that shooting a gun in a neighborhood is wrong, gov't tells us that assisted suicide is wrong, adultery is wrong.... so... why is it wrong for them to tell us murdering our children is wrong? apparently we need someone to tell us.
Jeanna Marie
We have the right to choose if we want to own guns that could potentially kill someone. Why can't we have the right to have an abortion and decide whether or not we want to have a child?
It's all about freedom. Something we seem to be losing sight of these days...
guns potentially kill someone.
It is illegal to kill people (unless it is in self defense).
Your argument is flawed.
----
What's the worst that could happen, apart from all of us being flattened or fried or whatever bombs do? [Rudy Steiner from The Book Thief]
- Ronza
Even though I don't completely agree with you on the issue of abortion, I do think you made a reasonable arguement. If the child is going to harm the mother, the abortion may be necessary. But that is the only abortion I believe would be justified. As in the case of rape, you don't have to raise the child. There are many people out there who can't have children and would love to adopt. If you think that children in orfanges are not taken care of well enough, I agree with you. But if God takes care of the birds that fly and feeds them, do you think he wouldn't look after the unloved children?
"But if God takes care of the birds that fly and feeds them, do you think he wouldn't look after the unloved children?"
Clearly, he doesn't.
Also, physical harm to the mother isn't the only kind of harm carrying a pregnancy to term can produce. It can produce emotional harm, social harm, (for students) academic harm, financial harm (pregnancies are expensive). As for rape victims, it is pretty well-known that a ton of rapes go unreported because of the shame involved. Don't you think that would carry over to the child? What kind of emotional damage do you think that would cause?
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
Let's quote you!
Not only physical harm to the mother but emotional harm?(you don't think a women that has an abortion regrets it every day of their life?) Social harm?(wait till your friends find out you killed your unborn baby?) academic harm( you must turn stupid when your pregnant?) Fiancial harm (because welfare wont pay for your baby>?)
Rape victims: Think what ? shame carries over to tthe baby?
Bottom line:
Abortions kill living things! Murder of an unjust nature is wrong!
No matter who's birds or bees or whatever !
Some women experience emotional trauma when they have abortions. Some don't. Maybe some would have suffered less if they had the baby. Maybe some would have suffered more.
This will sound callous, but it's easier to hide the fact that you had an abortion than it is to hide a pregnancy. For some people giving birth at a certain time can cause actual damage because of how people look on them.
Academic harm comes from the fact that you have to take significant time to deal with a pregnancy, even if you don't keep the child. What if a student is given bed-rest?
Some people can get welfare. Some people can't. But even if you do, it isn't really enough money for a good life, for mother or baby.
Does shame carry over to the baby? Sometimes it does, yes.
I said it before, I'll say it again. You have to be alive to be murdered. If you have no thoughts or sensations, I wouldn't say that you're alive.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
i support the use of abortion because its a personal right. i dont agree with people who use abortion as a means of birth control, but its still their right. i dont believe the baby is a baby until the third trimester, when doctors say that the baby can feel pain. i know that a lot of people disagree with me, and i respect your opinins as i would hope you would respect mine.
if we outlaw abortion, then we are sending a message that we, as a nation, support the restriction of civil rights. you can argue that the unborn baby has civil rights as well, but the baby is not reconized by the government or given an idententy (sp?) until after it is born. also if abortion is outlawed, coat hanger abortions will become very common again and will result in the deaths of many women.
now i leave you with a true event that happened to my mother. she had protected sex with her boyfriend at the age of 15. the condom broke and she got pregnant. she decided to get an abortion, having her boyfriends mom go with her, because she knew that if she told her abusive father that she was pregnant she would get beaten so hard that she would problity loose the baby and then get kicked out. would you say that she cant get an abortion, even though the baby would have died anyway and she would have been severly hurt and thrown out of her house?
also, i hate the sterotype that because someone is a christain, they are automaticly narrowminded. i believe in gay marrage, the death pentalty, assisted suicde, abortion and other more liberal beliefs. there are many christains that are more liberal.
You hate the stereotype that because someone is a Christian... that they are narrowminded... you believe in gay marriage, blah blah blah and the rest....
How does saying that you don't believe in gay marriage becaue of your religious belief system automatically make you narrowminded...? That is funny... wouldnt it just make you against gay marriage?
You speak of all these things like someone who is scared to actually take a stand on something. How can you claim Christianity and support what you support? Wouldnt that only make you a hypocrite?
You also stated... that if your mother would have gone home with the baby that the baby would have been killed. Is that a fact? If those are the facts, why did she not ever take any steps to put her father behind bars? "She knew she would have been beaten so hard she would have had a miscariage anyway." That is a lot of assumptions, but regardless, yes, it might have been in your mother's best interest to have an abortion.
I guess I am just really curious as how you connect all of that with your faith. That is really what I do not understand. How can you say outloud, "it is okay for gay marriage to happen," and in another breath claim, "Jesus Christ died on the cross for the salvation of man from his sins?"
"Let's not become sooooooo open minded that our brains fall out...."
In Colorado, there's a group that is trying to get a fertilized egg recognized as a person, with the same "inalienable rights" as a born person. This would effectively outlaw all abortionsin Colorado, among other things. I wrote a blog about it that is linked to in my signature.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
Colorado November Ballot Measure to Legally Define a Fertilized Egg as a Person