Can this be progress, real progress, in a place as stagnant and solid as the military? Maybe stagnant is not the right word, coming from a welcomed female into the male dominate maintenance world within one branch of service. The 9 June edition of the Air Force Times reports in an article about this policy which is available for you to read here, I will wait for you to read it…..
Interesting and hope full for many but still probably won't work.
Some would argue that they would never talk with a perspective employer about their sexuality and how it is never their business. This is true in most cases but the nature of military makes this situation a little more difficult. At most jobs with most people, there is no bunking down, there is no group showering, the military is not most jobs.
We should not consider there sexuality only if they can do their job and it does not interfere with us doing ours. The fact may be that the military does this ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy because it does not care and it makes accommodating easy when no body know. We can discriminate due to the mission on many issues that the normal work place cannot and during extenuating circumstances (or grace) there can be a waiver granted. I can see this happening for only a few scenarios in regards to homosexuality.
The beginning will have to continue with the policy we all know and love (hate??) given the nature of basic military training and deployed locations. Many may not realize that during Basic the shower is a ten at a time deal with no stalls or curtains. This naval person states it so perfectly “As a male I was not allowed in the female berthing because, as a male, females were my "sexual preference". Will you allow a person who has a "sexual preference" to my sex to berth in my compartment? Oh, I see, they can "control" themselves and I cannot.”
If we openly and initial bring in open homosexuals in, my only question is will we get more privacy or will we also drop all discrimination on sex-anything and become co-ed?
Will the heteros have to stop talking baout their family as it is 'telling'? Good luck to change
The showers raise an interesting dilemma. One that I cannot think of a solution to, except to have individual stalls at Basic.
My mom is an officer in the Army. She has told me many times that she, and her fellow Soldiers, have been places where they knew a Soldier was homosexual. Their reaction to it was just not to talk about it, since they were bound to tell if they talked about it.
The military needs to be reformed. I don't know how, but there are many, many problems with the system of things now, things I hope will change as some of my classmates move through the ranks of the Officers of the military.
~C
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Shower stalls is an excellent idea regardless of the allowance of homosexual openness... No free oogling for anybody!
I do not think that discharge should be the automatic course of action. Displaying sexuality, straight or otherwise, is inappropriate for any buisness. Let alone talking about it.
It is kind of a lopsided rule because I am allowed to talk about my husband and children but a same sex partner can not share their info. SOmebody's mouth either needs to open or someone else's mouth should be closed.
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
A fine idea, but not necessary. The thing about same sex attraction is that there is a dual relationship with anatomy. At the same time that I am attracted to my partner's body, I inhabit a body that has all the same parts, so sexual attraction becomes contextual. I have showered at the gym countless times and not even noticed the bodies of other women...if you've seen one boob in the shower, you've seen 'em all. I've got 'em too; big deal. Place the boobs in my bed with soft music and dim lighting, and I might think about them in a less anatomical context. (And I will refrain from posting the panting smiley here! ;)
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Well, I like the idea of shower stalls just because I like my privacy. It doesn't have anything to do with people in the room with me potentially finding me attractive... I'm just pretty modest. It took me years to get up the courage to get a 2 piece swimsuit, and the first summer I wore one, I had a tankini, so it might as well have been on a one piece.
~C
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Whether the military is like "most jobs" or not, it is a agency of our government, and as such has a constitutional responsibility to refrain from invidiously discriminating against any group of citizens unless there is a truly compelling reason to do so. I fail to see any compelling reason, here, due to the fact that our military has proved itself capable of handling these issues in similar situations. If the military is capable (and it is) of handling the logistics of having men and women in the armed services, then issues such as bunking and showering seem at most to be a mild inconvenience, even if one grants the validity of the concern (which I do not).
This actually brings me to an interesting point. What many advocates of the DADT policy seem to forget is that gay people already can and do serve in the military. They do their jobs just as effectively as any other soldier. So, if there is a problem when somene finds out that a fellow soldier is gay, it isn't the gay soldier that is causing the problem. That soldier is still doing the same job as he (or she) was doing before someone else figured out that they were gay. There are and will always be people who are so small-minded and bigoted that they will react poorly when exposed to someone that they don't like for personal reasons. There are people who don't like serving with African-Americans. There are people who think that women don't belong in our Armed Forces. But once the order was given to integrate these groups, the rank-and-file was told, unequivocably, that if you have a problem with it, shut up and do your job. It is wrong-headed in the extreme to suggest that the proper way to respond to discriminatory attitudes is to punish the victim of that discrimination.
On the one hand, I am tempted to tell people who worry about this to grow up. If you're capable of killing another human being, it seems silly to turn into a wilting flower because you're afraid someone might see you naked. On the other hand, since the military has effectively dealt with this same issue when they integrated women (at least partially) into our military structures, the objection to doing so again if necessary seems pretty weak. And on yet another hand (Hmmm...where did that third hand come from?), there are already same-sex oriented soldiers beside you in the showers, and despite their orientation they aren't jumping the bones of their fellow recuits during Basic showers. Again, the only thing being "protected" here is the bigoted sensibilities of soldiers who think themselves incapable of behaving like a disciplined adult should they discover the sexuality of a fellow soldier.
Again, this is a bogus argument due to the simple fact that those men are already sharing your compartment without issue, so obviously them just being there isn't a problem. Again, the potential problems that are being suggested here do not originate with the gay soldier. They originate with the straight soldier who decides to break military discipline because he or she has a personal problem with gay people.
And let's not forget that DADT itself creates a potential weakness in our military. By attaching an enforced state of anonymity to gay service members, the military is setting itself up intelligence leaks due to blackmail. An openly gay soldier cannot be manipulated by someone who attempts to use the threat of exposure against them. But a soldier who has the complete loss of his or her career hanging over them can be so manipulated. No matter how you slice it, this policy is neither effective nor intelligent.
Honestly, I think that's where we should be going. One of my favorite scenes in the movie Starship Troopers is the one where the unit is showering together. The picture presented by the story is one of pure equality and comfort. The characters are soldiers united in the common cause of civic duty. Nothing else matters...not race, not sex, not sexuality.
The bottom line for me is that YOU should be held responsible for YOUR behavior...period. If a gay soldier is doing his (or her) job, and doing it well, then that should be the end of the dicussion. If YOU have a problem with that, and YOU are the one who can't do YOUR job when you encounter a fellow service member that doesn't conform to your personal prejudices, then YOU'RE the one at fault, and YOU'RE the one who should be drummed out.
TTFN,
Blackout
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Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
Your first paragraph made me think that instead of people claiming homosexuality to get at they will claim it to get a private room. Terrible and immature huh?
Your sencond paragraph: This actually goes along with what I was thinking (and not clearly stated on my part) that the not straight if discovered should not be 'kick-out' but accomodated somehow. The people complaining can get paper work and kicked out.
Seriously the rest of your paragraphs are pretty much on the same track. I guess the big people on the top are jsut trying to figure out how one would accomodate homosexuals while maintaining the 'good order and discpline' of the segregated military.
The idea of co-ed is an interesting one.
I always appreciate your coments and wisdom.
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
I disagree. DADT is a top-down, politically motivated attempt to avoid having to accomodate gay people with ah honest, rational and effective policy.
TTFN,
Blackout
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Yes, I've changed my username from "percivale" to "Blackout." Go here if you want to know why.
And on yet another hand (Hmmm...where did that third hand come from?), there are already same-sex oriented soldiers beside you in the showers, and despite their orientation they aren't jumping the bones of their fellow recuits during Basic showers. Again, the only thing being "protected" here is the bigoted sensibilities of soldiers who think themselves incapable of behaving like a disciplined adult should they discover the sexuality of a fellow soldier.
I've never quite understood that. With the DADT policy, you already know that at least some of your fellow soldiers are gay. How does one continue to live in the little bubble of ignorance knowing that? I mean... I've never really understood why it's any different to know which are gay and which aren't. Either way; you know they're there doing the same job you're doing. Is it really going to ruin your life to know which are gay? DADT is senseless and pointless to me.
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Free books need new home.
~Fallon~
"If I fall asleep with a pen in my hand, don't remove it - I might be writing in my dreams."- Pace
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"DADT is senseless and pointless to me."
It will just be a historical foot note one day as progress is made from the injustice of the past. The policy which preceeded it was used to empower witch hunts.
We are probably getting very close to the next step. Obama may be the comander-in-Chief that takes us there. This is just one of many 'changes' that he would be politically illadvised to dwell on before the election.
Sorry to completely avoid the point of your blog, but it has me wondering....
Are you anywhere near McChord? Ft. Lewis or Bremerton? (More likely McChord from the context?)
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Your Tongue is a Rudder; It Steers the Whole Ship, Sends Your Words Past Your Lips or Keeps Them Safe Behind Your Teeth... [Brand New]
maybe not even close. I am an hour is noth of the texas left flat part.... in new mexico.
Why?
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
Ah...
Just wondering.
Your context in a few areas sounds very familiar, but that must just be military living, haha.
Yeah, not even close is right... it still can't decide if it's summer here, haha.
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Your Tongue is a Rudder; It Steers the Whole Ship, Sends Your Words Past Your Lips or Keeps Them Safe Behind Your Teeth... [Brand New]
My son tells me it is not summer here and I ask what it is then. He says he does not know but summer does not get this hot. I kind of wish I was a little closed to were your at.
Gotta love military uniformity.
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
hehe that reminds me of a conversation my mom and Kaia had at the hospital last night. When we left to go visit her he decided he was going to wear a long sleeve hoody over his shirt (with shorts, mind you). Absolutely refused to take it off. She was trying to convince him to take it off and said it was 90 degrees outside. He propped his arms on his hips look at her and said "It's not 90 degrees; it's HOT!" It cracked me up.
You're in NM? I bet it is fricking hot there. Arkansas wouldn't be so bad except for the blasted humidity. Bleh.
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Free books need new home.
~Fallon~
"If I fall asleep with a pen in my hand, don't remove it - I might be writing in my dreams."- Pace
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